>> schieffer: welcome back to fakes the nation. now on to the other big story we're covering this week, rising number of measles cases in the united states. according to state and local health agencies, there are now more than 150 cases reported in 16 states in this latest outbreak. dr. anthony fauci is the head of the infectious diseases at the national institutes of health. -own cbs news chief medical correspondent of course is dr. jon lapook. dr. fauci, are we the verge of a major epidemic here? >> not a major epidemic in the sense of globally around the united states, more than 90% of the people in the united states are vaccinated. we're talking about outbreaks among vulnerable people. i think what people don't really appreciate is that children, even normal children without any

issues of health from birth to one year old are not vaccinated because you don't vaccinate children until they're 12 months old. when you have outbreaks children for example, in daycare centers like we saw in chicago, become vulnerable if there is enough infection in the country to allow for these outbreaks that we saw in california and disneyland. >> schieffer: it was california, the group in disleyland, outbreak in chicago. any other pockets? >> as you said, several states, in south dakota, for example there's a cluster. and vulnerability is always since this is such a highly contagious infection that someone can get exposed in a place where there's an outbreak then travel any part of the country then get involved in getting. not knowing and infecting other vulnerable people. not only infants and children less than one people who can't

get vaccinated like children with leukemia, immunosuppressed states that they can't get vaccinated which makes them more susceptible. >> schieffer: what do you say to patients when they come to you say should my child get a vaccination, i've heard all this stuff, we all know that this study that started all this turns out to be totally fraudulent. what do you say? >> of course, i advise that they get vaccinations. if there is pushback very first thing i do try to be sort of gentle, not make them defensive. i say i understand that if you have you're trying to protect your kids can that's your job to keep your kids safe. but i point out logically that this all started with an article in 1998 that turned out to be completely inaccurate. was retracted 12 years later. the problem is you pointed out the mischief was already done. for 12 years this was out there in the either the sense that

vaccination was unsafe. i can try to be as logical point out why the benefits of vaccination far outweigh the risk. when something is out there there's some sort of almost pavlovian condition response, they hear, dangerous. >> schieffer: were you surprised that somehow it popped up as kind of an issue here, an early issue, my guess is it's going to go away as political issue with some of the blowback to some of the politician, is that raised this. i was a little surprised at that. >> you know, i'm never surprised that any of thesish us use become politicized, we saw that with ebola. states like mississippi and west virginia where they have mandatory, there's no exemption except for medical. they haven't had case of measles in mississippi since 1992. you understand why on the one handsome people want to have sense of personal control and freedom but on the other hand we have issue of protecting society. there are things like drunk

driving, for example, we don't allow people to go out there look, i want to get loaded, get drunk, drive my car. we don't allow that. >> schieffer: dr. fauci how can the government do a better job on educating people on this? >> by getting the message out as much as we can. our centers for disease control and prevention, the cdc has put out health alert networks. they're constantly trying to get the message across. they are doing very good job. but sometimes as much as you talk you don't turn people around. but you shouldn't give up. also it isn't just people who have deep philosophical problems with vaccinations. there are some people for reasons that are not as deeply fill cough call that you can get to and turn them around. that is what i think the cdc is doing and doing a very good job but they also work very closely with the local and state health authorities. it's that synergy and collaboration between the federal government in the form of the cdc and fda and nih and

local and state authorities. >> schieffer: shoeshine who have not been vaccinated be allowed to go to public schools? >> that's not for us to decide. what we can do is just what jon said. is that get the information about, you have a very good vaccine, you have a highly contagious disease, you have the disease that is entirely preventable. when you look at that data with the safe vaccine, the conclusion is really almost obvious. >> schieffer: dr. fauci, dr. lapook, we'll be back with our panel to do some analysis on all of this in a minute. huh, fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. everybody knows that. well, did you know words really can hurt you? what...? jesse don't go! jesse...no! i'm sorry daisy, but i'm a loner. and a loner gotta be alone. heee yawww!

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>> schieffer: we're back with some washington's best. ruth marcus column northern iowa for the "washington post," david sanger national security correspondent for the "new york times." nancy youssef with the daily beast and john harris, the cofounder and editor in chief of politico. nancy, i want to start with you. you were out in the middle east for so long working, you've been to all of these places, i want to ask you about this idea that isis recruiting jihadis at nearly the same rate that we were killing them. do you believe that's right and where does that go? how do we counter that? >> well, the u.s. military said that they killed 6,000 roughly since the air campaign began in

august. in that time independent said 4,000 have come in even since october. it seems that they're able to keep up at the rate that they are being killed. now the interesting thing is, military doesn't have a means to really accurately count those numbers because they don't have troops on the ground. yet do the groups giving these numbers. the results are the same, which is that they're able to recruit. one of the reasons is as we see these barbaric videos, but for so many in the region this idea of oppression and the suffering that they endure at homemade it such that the isis message somehow resonates with them that there should be a call. that they would take care of the poverty, would take care of their interpretation of religion there is such frustration with the state that so much live under that islamic state is an alternative. iraq, for example, the appeal is in part because they reject their shias dominated government. >> schieffer: david, you've

been dealing with this for a long time, do you think the killing of this jordanian pilot could somehow backfire here, obviously it is inflailing the people of jordan, a wholely different story in the streets so to speak at least in jordan. >> you have seen a big pendulum swing in jordan and the government of jordan try to sort of fan those flames with this very big protests that they had a memorial. the problem is jordan is a tiny state that doesn't have a whole lot of resources to go contribute to this fight. and you have seen great reluctance on the part of other arab states to really stick with it. and the united arab emirates just recently came back in starting up after they suspended them after the shoot down. i think many of them are waiting for a greater sign from washington about how much back up they're going to get. and that's why that clip that you showed before of susan rice,

national security advisor is so interesting. one world view critique of president obama is that he's not paying attention as lines are being redrawn in ukraine as isis gets more powerful that there's a collapse of old world order here. then you have the view that you heard from miss rice the other day where she basically said, these are discrete problems that we can handle. we're the unchallenged super power. the problem is they haven't sent clear signals about how much commitment the u.s. is willing to make. >> schieffer: john, you are the pastor of politics covered it probably as much as anybody, this whole idea of -- there is kind of a notion and you heard mike mccaul, administration just not taking this seriously enough. >> that the world is on fire, enough fires going on to make that legitimate perception to go with. the administration is trying to

not be buffeted by these series of individual crises and basically claiming that they're not linked. the the administration came out with national security strategy, about a year ago there was this big storm president obama was criticizing about hillary clinton saying his strategy, don't do stupid stuff. or maybe different word than stuff. was how he said it privately. this is actually articulation of that, call for strategic patience basically look, we can't be everywhere, we've got to just have detachment on this. the problem with that not just our enemies but our allies, detachment as indifference, and lack of will power obama he clearly gets drawn in, every instance of late to the conclusion that force is what matters not just diplomacy and engagement. hillary clinton will have big problem reconciling this, she's much more on force and intervention side. >> john is exactly right.

the president's instincts are patience, whether may be strategic or not sometimes too much patience can be a very dangerous thing. so i would very struck by the panel you had on, two people who worked with this president very closely, mike morell and tom donilon who yes there are threats to the united states as we had during the cold war but the serious outbreak of problems not just islamic states but the others that they rattled off and potential dangers not just to their region and mid east but to the homeland that that could pose, and state of play in the mid east. we have started maybe we had some progress in iraq, i was very struck by the degree to which tom donilon did not mention any progress in syria because that's really pretty late to the game i'm not sure patience is warranted right now. >> schieffer: nancy after all those years you spent out in the region how is president

obama and american leadership viewed in that part of the world? >> well anything view has the iraq war how the war started and also how it ended. on top of that you have now arab where there is feeling, i can say in egypt that the president spoke out on behalf of protesters a little late when it was inevitable that former president mubarak would fall. then when they said that elected president must say that the u.s. is endorsing the muslim brotherhood wrath e.r. than the process of the democratic election, and so feeling is that the united states is sort of taking a limited view, one that looks at their interests isn't really engaged any to take on these very attractive problems. now that all said, i think one of the differences that came out of arab was that much more local issues rather than constructs of the united states, where as before, the leadership of mubarak was seen as propped up

by the united states is now the current president is seen as organic product of the circumstances on the ground. it's been a shift. >> schieffer: what would you add to that? >> i thought the best part of the national security strategy was that in the couple of pages it prioritized when the united states would have to get involved. it started with the national one. when there's a threat directly to the united states, homeland, threats to americans, so forth. where i think it ran in to trouble is not acknowledging how quickly we've gotten in to a situation where what seemed to be regional threats can turn in to threats. just as afghanistan became the breeding ground for al qaeda the big fear about syria now is that if it slits up it becomes the next afghanistan then we ask the question, were we in enough and early enough. that's the big debate about whether or not we are secretly trying to keep assad in for fear

that the country will implode. you see it again in ukraine where the issue is to what degree do we arm the rebels and there is a big split out here. not only between the europeans and the u.s. but even in the administration, you heard the nominee for secretary of defense say he was inclined to -- >> schieffer: but i want to get back to this, what are we trying to do in syria? i'm not sure i understand it. >> the official position is that the airstrikes, frankly serving as sort of air force, if you will for the kurdish forces and territories that they're trying to protect and iraqi army and the territories they are trying to protect because they don't have the air power and it's an area where you can dominate over the islamic state. now the u.s. position is that it cannot send ground forces has to be local forces, will go months and months of training before they can reach that point. many argue that it's a strategy of containment and frankly it's

hard to see how far the u.s. could go to really change the dynamics on the ground because they're so fluid, and the groups that we would of a aligned with are out aligned withal kate da, picking allies is very complicated. i think there's a fair argument to be made that it's a containment strategy. just want to go back to one point that david bakes makes one of the case studies is libya the u.s. said we wouldn't get involved and repercussion is a threat not only to the region but the united states as so many isis. >> president said he had some regrets. >> nancy makes an interesting point there's a lot of would have, could have, what might have happened in the potential much more flexibility to make progress that we could have had if we had intervened earlier that brings me to john's point about hillary clinton and you posted a little bit john, as potential problem for secretary

clinton in terms of separating herself from president obama's policies, i think it would could be benefit to her because unlike when she ran eight years ago she is not facing challenges from the left of the party with people worrying that she's too interventionist, but really sets her apart in a way that i think could set her up very nicely for general election campaign differentiating herself from president obama and there's interesting parallel debate on republican side, the strains between the more isolationist rand paul parts of the party and more interventionists part. he i think this is going to be really interesting and vibrant part of the presidential debate coming as well. >> unlike sometimes where these are kind of manufactured debates or matters of manipulation, i think this flows very general quinnly what hillary clinton much more interventionist backed by force. >> one thing we know this is for

sure going to be the next president's problem no matter who he or she is. >> schieffer: you know, one thing that kind of struck me this week when the president -- all knew he was going to do this, he said last year he was going to do it. he was going to ask the new congress to give him authority to fight this war against isis and al qaeda. we have been hearing the republicans say he's got to be stronger, he's got to go after them then response from john boehner was, well, this is going to be a heavy lift. what is going on here? is the congress, are they going to deny him the right to carry out this fight? >> it's a mother may i set of -- nobody wants to be the first one to initiate the authorization of force because they have had a few cases where authorizations to use force have blown up on them in the past. including in iraq. the republicans are playing a

game here i think in which they want to say the president's been too weak but don't necessarily want to go on record with a vote that indicates that they're giving this president or this president's successor this kind of blank check that george bush had at some point. a lot of constituencies, there's a sense that united states just got out of two wars, don't want the get back in. >> both parties i would say had division between elite ranks, the national security strategists tend to think on truth serum versus where the country at both ends of the ideological spectrum is weary of war, skeptical of our ability to make a difference even if we want to. president obama president closer to the mood of the country than the people who are saying, we got to do something, the world is on fire, we need a more aggressive response. >> everybody pretty much thinks that we need to update the authorization that the much less agreement. but especially as we wind down

the war in afghanistan, one important thing to start thinking about is, what would be our authority legally to hold people who were caught on the battlefield in afghanistan at guantanamo or elsewhere if that war ended what are the justification. it could be very important. >> schieffer: i want to go back to what david brought up about ukraine the german leader on merkel, i think coming tomorrow. she already said no we shouldn't be arming the ukrainian folks. united states actively considering that, is this a breach between germany and the night states, if so is that something to be concerned about? >> one that is certainly developing not just germany the german chancellor, french president both went to see president putin at the end of

last week, they presented a program, we don't fully understand but is essentially extension of the cease fire with a little bit more of could carved out region for the russian oriented areas of the country. but the problem is that they have said that even if putin doesn't accept this they're not going to favor arming ukrainian government. pout is in looking at this saying what's the downside of just dragging for time here which is what he has done very successfully as this has gotten in to a bigger and bigger conflict. the president's instinct not necessarily to go in i think many in his party agree that as i mentioned carter, i think probably have to hear from hillary clinton on this issue pretty soon at some point. and it's going to be a very big division because in the end you heard vice president biden say yesterday that reset was over. and we're in to a period of

resistance to the russians, that's different than saying confrontation. >> seems to me the central question, give more weapons would that prolong this conflict or would it push the russians to back away, making it maybe too costly for them, politically or economically. if the answer is no, the russians continue to get involved what is second or third order. get more involved, is it ready to get more involved. something that the president had called regional issue. >> schieffer: all right. we'll stop there. i want to thank all of you for being with us. we'll be back with a look at the whacky weather of the weekend.

>> schieffer: finally today is it just me or is it cabin fever, whatever. add on to all the other stuff that's gone haywire he cannot remember when weather has been so different from one place to another. first off whoever heard of something called a pineapple express? well, the people on west coast and nevada know more about it

than they care to. it is the name the weather bureau gave to the recent atmospheric river of rain, almost ten inches that brought floods cancelled airline flights and knocked out power for thousands. and there's more on the way. in the northeast it was rain but snow, enough to delay the super bowl parade in boston nearly three feet of the white stuff. it was the snowiest seven-day period in the city's history and there could be two feet more coming because winter storm marcus intends to hang around awhile, serves us right for trusting storm named marcus, sounds genital anything but. but you wouldn't know about that if you were in the middle of america record breaking warm weather, every place you look. 70 degrees in provo utah, even hotter in denver, friday. 71. and if you're heading to new orleans for mardi gras parades they're calling for a chance of

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winds, fallen trees and flooding. good evening i'm ken bastida. and i'm elizabeth cook. ann notarangelo and brian hackney are off tonight. another powerful storm bringing flooding and falling trees. good evening,. we are here tonight because it is grammy night and we will have more on that in a few minutes. but first, all of the heavy rain, violent winds, doing a number out here in oakland hills, we will zoom in there so you can see the mess left behind when the trees went down in this area. this is off of skyline boulevard here in oakland. one of many