good morning. welcome to mosaic. i am ron swisher. this is a day of pentecost. for some it means birthing of the church as well as the broadening of the church. the birthing will we might sing happy birthday but may also be singing in christ there is no east or west for we broaden our mission and ministry on this day of pentecost. last time you saw me was on easter. i had two dynamic guests at that time who told us a lot about easter. i was so inspired i asked them to come back. we are blessed to have carroll

and jim. welcome back. you were so dynamic, both of you, that we were on youtube for the first time. >> wow! >> youtube celebrated its 10th year anniversary last month and they celebrated by having us on there. >> i didn't get any word that we went viral. >> i know a lot of people knew a lot about easter at that time because of you folks here. hopefully they'll feel the same after hearing about pentecost. before we do that carroll, tell us about your background and ministry. >> okay. i am a native san francisco, very proud to have been born and raised here in the city. i was close to golden gate park. i graduated from the graduate theological union in berkeley. i serve as a chaplain for palliative care department of kaiser and i am also senior

pastor at elmhurst united methodist church in east oakland. >> great. >> i am a son of the intermountain west, born in salt lake city, grew up in western colorado, college in oregon and ultimately graduated from american baptist seminary of the west. i am chair of the board of trustees at absw. absw is such an important place in my life. what i learn there, i can't thout that experience. i spent time in los angeles. since 1989 i have been pastor on the lakeshore baptist church in oakland. we are dedicated to seeking the peace of our city. >> that's 26 years. >> yes. >> great, great. without even giving you a memo, you are in red. >> spirit moved. >> right. tell us about pentecost.

if you were speaking to a congregation that knew nothing about pentecost, what would you say first? >> pentecost is a time where the spirit is moving to empower the people. so instead of folk focusing on jesus, jesus is then turning the table around to say now it is your turn. you take it and you run with it because we are the hands and the feet and the body in flesh of god. >> i like that. i like that. jim. >> i am thinking exactly the same way. knowing this day was coming i called a gathering of folks in the congregation and said tell me what you think about pentecost. i represent you. one of the folks said the same thing. pentecost is a kind of graduation. jesus says as i have been physically with you, now you body of christ, you are going to be physically present, empowered by the spirit in the

world. it's time for you to step up and grow up. >> i like both of those thoughts on the holy spirit and pentecost. i'm of the bias that a lot of people do not put emphasis on the pentecost. we do on advent christmas, emphasize lent and easter but there is no emphasis on pentecost and the spirit. why do you think that is if i am right about that? >> i like to think it is sometimes a very sad commentary for us because folk in our humanists want to follow but not want to be doers. so it is easy to say i am a follower of jesus christ. but jesus' teachings and lessons seem to indicate more of us doing and partnering and participating. sometimes we want to be couch potatoes and watch somebody

else doing the work. >> thank you, thank you. >> i think a couple things. when we speak of the holy spirit as holy ghost i am not sure that really is an endearing term for folks, kind of confusing. second, for a lot of churches that aren't necessarily really emotional or pentecost al in their outlook, they'll say what does pentecost have do with us? we definitely can be empowered by the spirit without being pentecostal in our practice. i think we need to claim that the spirit moves with us whether we are a quiet congregation or loud congregation. the spirit can still be present, active, moving. >> very good. we'll come back to that. thank you for this introduction to the spirit and to pentecost. we are with carol and jim. please join us.

welcome back to mosaic. we have been talking about pentecost. that's why we are in the red. red symbolizes the spirit coming on that day of pentecost. in acts 2, you see a diversity of people responding to the spirit. we have talked a lot about the spirit and your definition of the spirit. tell us a little bit more about what you think happened at pentecost. >> a good question can be asked about penalty cost. was it primarily an auditory experience or was it primarily a hearing experience? was it speaking in tongues or hearing in a new way? i don't know if we can solve that, but i know listening is always very important. pentecost is a challenge to listen and hear each other in new ways and trust that the spirit will be in that process

of ernest listening. listening is one way we can bind the nations and heal the planet. >> good. would you add to that? >> i think too as jim was saying it was definitely a process of discernment and deep feeling and feeling the movement and the presence of the holy spirit that had not been present to them before, especially with the absence of jesus. there was more of a focal point of reference for them. what is that feeling? what is that movement? when you have somebody who has such a dynamic personality as i think jesus had in that ora, the energy can be focused there outwardly instead of inwardly. >> okay. i was looking at some of the scriptures on pentecost on this day. not only do you have acts 2 but you have genesis where you have the tower of baffle, just opposite happens. then you have an alternative

package in ease, i am not sure which you will focus on. i was looking ahead to see what those are. what is your approach? >> i like to add in john 19. >> that's right. >> jesus comes into the closed room with the disciples. they're locked behind doors in fear and he breathes on them the spirit and says "go forgive. go forgive as i have forgiven you ." being practitioners of forgiveness is one of the primary acts of the spirit filled community. >> i see. >> then as i was looking at it, go out and be amongst all people, that god is not a god of exclusion. that's why the spirit shows up representing so many different tongues, so many different languages so it says i am here and available and abundantly open and accepting of all people. >> i like that.

i like that. in our society now we are going through a lot of racial conflict, not starting with ferguson but even further back, new york. baltimore is still in our heart and mind. do you see the spirit breaking down some of the visions and the conflicts that are going on? how would the spirit work in that do you think? >> it's a complex situation, complex and challenging. i think if folk were more willing to see that the spirit is in each of us and that it is universal, and that there is no difference, but the spirit is calling us to be humane towards one another so that we can have a conversation about our differences but our similarities so we can the life and hope of god in us and we

can stop warring against one another, especially in our african-american communities. we need to see the light of god and presence of the holy spirit moving in each and every one so we can stop doing harm to ourselves. >> thank you. >> the spirit is about truth and reconciliation. we have to start with the truth. the spirit convicts us. the spirit reminds us of really harsh and awful realities, racial disparities that continue to exist in our communities, disparities of opportunity and education and ultimately disparities of hope. the spirit starts first by convicting us of these and then moves us forward to reconciliation, hope. there is no justice without some truth. we've got to start with the truth. one of the things we say in the scripture is the spirit sometimes convicts and says this isn't right. this isn't right at least is a

first step to moving forward. >> excellent thoughts by both of you. when you talked about truth and reconciliation, i thought of the archbishop bringing people together and asking them to confess and forgiveness comes and reconciliation comes. >> if penalty cost could result in a -- pentecost could result in a movement like that in our community, oh goodness. >> it would be tremendous. >> he shouted among the people to have them raise their hands and shout vsp, vsp which means very special people. he says we are very special people because god loves us and we are made in the image of god. it's not something we earned. it is a gift of god. he wanted everyone to know that, not just his own people but all people which is what you have been saying. >> on pentecost we can see vsp is very spirited people.

>> very good. >> absolutely. >> we are going to come back to this spirited conversation. thank you for being with us. please join us with carol estes and jim hopkins, elmhurst. right mi carino. so like i said, everything i learned about cooking i learned from grandma's empanadas. shall we go again? yep. mix the beef with the onions the onions with the peppers, the peppers with the paprika

the paprika with the garlic, the garlic with the oregano, the oregano with the cumin, got it? got it. throw in the olives, stir, season stir again pour out the flour. roll out the dough make a circle, drop in a fist full of filling, fold over, press down and ta-da! hmm [announcer] most parenting is hard to do in just 2 minutes. but 2 minutes twice a day making sure they brush is easier and it could help save them from a lifetime of tooth pain. did you know kids who play outdoors have healthier lungs? totally. did you know that boys that play with dolls make better husbands? my son has lots of dolls. but did you know terry cloth diapers breathe better? i did. oh, yeah yeah. did you guys know statistically friendly kids have more friends? yeah. that's obvious. did you know most people think they're using the right car seat for their kid but they're not? announcer: parents who really know it all know for sure that their child is in the right seat. visit safercar.gov/therightseat to make sure your child is protected. in the small town of elmira, new york a boy was born into an all-american family. the odds of him achieving his dream

in the fashion industry? 1 in 23 million. the odds of having a child diagnosed with autism? 1 in 68. i am tommy hilfiger, and my family is affected by autism. learn more at autismspeaks.org/signs. >> welcome back to mosaic. this is pentecost. we have been talking about the power of the spirit breaking down barriers and uniting us and bringing us together. i was telling my colleagues at my congregation i try to encourage them to wear red on penalty cost and they have -- pentecost and they have at fairfield. i am pleased with it. what is the symbol of the red? >> the red is the fire, spirit, the thrust of the movement of

the holy spirit that just lights us up, the vibrancy and celebratory color. in different cultures they wear red instead of wearing black because it is a marking of celebration. >> very good. >> it's the tongues of flame. carol said it exactly correctly. >> you mentioned sometimes communities feel they're not pentecost al, charismatic, don't have the spirit. some people that are pentecostal and charismatic feel like they don't. >> that has been in the life of the church since the first pentecost. paul talks about it. how do gift of tongues fit into our lives together? he struggles and says it's a gift but should abney be

regarded -- shouldn't be regarded. it shouldn't be a sense of superiority. there are all kinds of gifts. he struggles with that. there continues to be struggles in the community. if i am not ready to shout, that means the spirit left me out. i have to answer in my experience no, sometimes the spirit is a still small voice. we have to own that perspective as well. >> absolutely. >> i think the spirit most of all, and what you have eluded to, is the fact that it brings a community that loves one another and is able to proclaim that word and hear that word. >> yes. and it invites us to go outside and share that word. what does it look like? it doesn't have to look like what your sharing looks like. it doesn't have to look like what jim's sharing looks like. it looks like in a powerful

peaceful way in how spirit is inspiring us communal and individually. it's about the good news. >> i came across this wonderful quote from helen keller. she said the most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen and even cannot be heard but have to be felt with the heart. >> amen. >> it seems like pentecost, you are able to see it in here and feel it. >> since you mentioned helen keller, for many of your viewers who do not know, i am visually impaired. as a result of that, folks often ask how is it that you know somebody has entered? i feel the energy. i think that's where my thrust of ministry comes from, that internal feeling. i am always inviting folk to go in and feel the power of the holy spirit moving and empowering you and inviting you to activity so it may not be

this magical mystical thing. it may not be something like just pow, it may be that silent movement of that inward motion that you can feel that brings you such joy, that warms your heart, and it changes you in that instant. >> that's powerful. i imagine people who come to you for counseling will feel a great deal of that. is that because you think of the extra dimension you might seem to have? >> i think absolutely because i don't see you. i feel you. i have to listen very carefully for the newences that are being spoken that i might not see in your body language in order for me to kind of get a gist of what is being said because far too often we get trapped by seeing sometimes in the external. we are looking out to see where is god moving? when god can be moving inside. but we are not listening because we are more focused on

physical seeing and witnessing. >> dynamic. jim. >> you hear young people asking each our do you feel me? that can mean a lot. do you hear me? do you understand me? do you respect me? it can be a spiritual question. are we connecting? i think it's an important question for pentecost. do you feel me? >> that's great. that's great. >> i think it is also important too to set an intention of peace inwardly because the energy of peace can be felt outwardly. i think when young people are saying that, they're saying do you feel me? do you feel me coming authorities released anticly with peace? -- authentically with peace? >> that takes us back to the baltimore, ferguson, new york, oakland questions and the young people that take to the

streets. that's what they're saying. "do you feel me"? >> do you feel our pain and how are we addressing that? >> dr. king said that the rise or cry of the unheard. we know that does not justify it but it explains some of the pain. >> yes. >> absolutely. >> i know a lot of people say wow, why are they rioting? we don't endorse and embrace that. we hurt along with that, but we understand some of it. >> the answers to the pain expressed in the riots or rebellions, however you want to phrase them, the answer to the pain is in some ways policy and law. but it's also a spiritual answer. there is a deep cry for spiritual reality to speak to the pain that the young people are feeling. >> you alluded to inequity in our society. it's so great. >> with the pentecostal

movement and i am not saying -- pentecost costal movement but the pentecost of movement. it was calling us to be at the table. that's why it was given to everybody equally to be at the table and hear one another. >> amen. we have to come to our last segment. you have brought tremendous enlightenment to the spirit. thank you for being here. please join us for our last segment here on mosaic. it's great to host these two guests with us. thing with wheels and a motor. the odds of him going on to fascinate millions with his talent? 1 in 260,000. the odds of this born racer having 157 career top ten finishes in nascar? 1 in 125 billion. the odds of him winning

both the daytona 500 and the brickyard 400 in the same year? 1 in 195 million. [crowd cheering] the odds of a child being diagnosed with autism? 1 in 68. i'm nascar driver jamie mcmurray, and my niece has autism. learn more at autismspeaks.org/signs. did you know kids who play outdoors have healthier lungs? totally. i did. did you know that boys that play with dolls make better husbands? my son has lots of dolls. but did you know terry cloth diapers breathe better? i did. oh, yeah, yeah. did you know that strollers have the right of way on a sidewalk? yes. yup, i did. did you guys know-- did you know that kids who eat breakfast have higher gpas? yeah, i know. yeah. that's actually what i was going to say. did you know babies should never touch silver? it's really bad for them.

i knew that. did you guys know that statistically friendly kids have more friends? mm-hmm. that's obvious. did you know most people think they're using the right car seat for their kid, but they're not? announcer: parents who really know it all know for sure that their child is in the right seat at the right age and size. visit safercar.gov/therightseat to make sure your child is protected. i'm putting that on my blog. i just put it in mine. it's been a great joy to have this program on pentecost. i mentioned earlier that we were on youtube. i am sure this will be on youtube thanks to kpix because this is a lot of information about pentecost. but it's because reverend carol

and reverend jim have been with us. in our final few minutes what would you add to what you have said? anything we can walk away with? you have said so much. >> i am thinking about during may at lakeshore we had this emphasis on caring for creation. on pentecost, we are going to talk about the importance of fresh air. the spirit and fresh air and the challenge to all of us is receive a breath of fresh air and be a breath of fresh air in your communities. >> that's good. >> play with that analogy and how important fresh air is on our planet now. >> when i was in oakland, you were active in the community, community organizing so some of that still i am sure affects your ministry. >> yeah, in fact there is an organization in san francisco called california interfaith power and light. >> that's right.

>> ecological concerns, creation, care and concerns. pentecost, breath of fresh air. >> that's right. i think grace church has a lot do with that. >> yes, i think they come out of grace church. >> right. >> recognizing that pentecost comes after 40 days after easter. that's a celebration of resurrection. it is our gift that we are being given through pentecost, through the spirit, to be empowered, to be motivated and inspired, to get up and become active and go out into the world and do some good. do some good. as we talked last time, in our community we are building our garden. it is growing and growing. we are inspired simply by the spirit to feed people, to address the need where there is a food desert. i say be empowered by the holy

spirit. be not afraid. for it takes each and every one of us to become actively involved, to make a change and a change for the better. >> amen. perfect love cast out here. you have expressed that greatly. >> that garden is putting some oxygen back into the environment. >> absolutely. and some good food in folks' bellies. >> we only have a few seconds but christmas is a long time, advent, easter has a time. pentecost sometimes has that one day. we should expand that. >> we have to do more to do what we can in the time we can and not let it just be about one day but keep going back so we can refresh our memory. >> you talked about broadening and in the christian calendar ordinary time follows pentecost and some have gone to changing ordinary time to growing mind.

>> good, good. thank you both. >> thank you. >> elmhurst is on? >> 1659 83rd avenue off of plymouth. right in the corner in the sunshine. >> lakeshore is corner of lake sure and mandana on bus line 26. >> thank you for being with us. join them in their worship services and you are welcome to main at fairfield at community. it's great to have you this morning on pentecost.

mallicoat. we be >> hi. good morning everyone. welcome to bay sunday. i am filling in for frank. you know the rain has ended. it's a beautiful day, so he must be golfing. we begin our first pitch today. if you have a show idea, we would love to hear from you. go to facebook.com/baysunday and comment to the page. i want to ask you a question this morning. how many times a day does somebody walk up to you and ask you how are you? you immediately apply fine, great, thank you very much. do you really feel that terrific or is it an automatic response? i aspire my come back