>> dickerson: today on "face the nation" three republican presidential candidates, cruz, christie and trump. billionaire businessman continues to turn things upside down on the 2015 campaign trail. >> i'd like to have the election tomorrow. i don't want to wait. >> dickerson: while he's waiting trump is driving the policy conversation. his plans to deport undocumented immigrants including some american-born citizens rattled the republican field. texas senator ted cruz and new jersey governor chris christie and donald trump himself all weigh in on the politics and the policies of immigration. and on the democratic side there are new signs joe biden is thinking about taking on hillary clinton. we'll have reporters to analyze it all plus conversation with documentary film maker ken burps on re-release of the civil war

next month. all coming up on "face the nation." captioning sponsored by cbs good morning welcome to "face the nation" i'm john dirk son. donald trump joins us by phone from new york. mr. trump i want to start with the immigration plan you put forward this week, got a lot of coverage lot of conversation from your rivals. the biggest criticism of that plan is that it will be so expensive. it's not just the wall which you say you want mexico to pay for but it's also the job of deporting 11 to 12 million people. how are you going to pay for the whole thing? >> john, right now we're spending $130 billion a year, that's a very low number by comparison to what it really is, to having tremendous -- you look at new york and st. louis and you look at let's say baltimore and chicago, many of these gang members are illegal and tough dudes. those calculated in the 130 billion.

we're a nation of laws we have to do what we have to d. actually it will be lot less expensive to do it properly. you know the good people are going to be expedited to come back but you have to do this, john. we are nation based on laws. we're based on borders. we don't have a border. we don't have laws. people are walking in past these really fantastic border patrol. we have border patrol people that are fantastic they can do their job. they are told not to. people are walking into the country right past these people and they're told to stand back. it's absolutely disgraceful. >> dickerson: you say good people will be expedited. who are the good people? >> well, the people that have done a wood job, they have been here a long time. they worked hard, they have recommendations from people and we're going to get wonderful people coming back into this country. i'm not only talking about from that standpoint, you know, we're building a wall. it's going to be a great wall. by the way, mexico will pay for it. going to be a great wall.

not going to cause nearly as much as what they are saying but this would be a wall with a very big, very beautiful door because we want the legals to come back into the country. we also want people of talent to come into the country. we want people to go to our colleges. you to go harvard, wharton, stanford, you are immediately thrown out as soon as you're finished getting angry. you can be number one in your class at princeton and be thrown out of the country and you have -- forced to go to work in china. you want to be in our country. i will have that changed and changed quickly. we want people of talent. >> dickerson: let me ask you about good people. they're here now, undocumented now they will leave the country then you have them come back through that beautiful door. isn't that rewarding people who jump the line in the first place? >> well, you could say that. but we have lot of good people that have been here, they have done a good job. it's a tough situation but they lived here sometimes for 10, 15,

20 years, in some cases they haven't been good people. there have been problems, i will say this. our country doesn't know how many people we have. we have no idea how many illegals are here. i've heard number for five years, and longer of 11. 11 million people. every once in awhile you hear 30. we have no idea coming in, they're pouring in, we have no idea how many people are here. but we have to get them back. we have to get them back where they came from and good ones we will expedite. we'll work on it and we'll expedited. you know what it's called. it's called management. right now we have political hacks running the system. we have people that have no clue how to manage this with good management we can do this very, very well. >> dickerson: let pe ask you question about your campaign, you talk about how no one owns you, you're paying for it yourself. if you got into the general election where democrats are maybe going to spend upwards of a billion dollars are you going to foot the bill for that, too? >> i think what would happen is people -- i don't want

lobbyists, i know people that want something. i've been doing this all my life i've been very big contributor, because many people, of all size, i don't want lobbyists, i don't want special interests, certainly -- have lot of money coming in, woman sends in $7.2 the other day. she writes this beautiful little letter. we have lot of small contributors. i would even take big contributors as long as they don't expect anything. only people that can expect something from me is going to be the people that want to see our country be great again. those are the only people. certainly i would would take -- i actually like the idea of investing in a campaign but it has to be no strings attached. i don't want any strings attached. these lobbyists, i would have got $5 hill gone very important lob heist. there are total strings attached. come to me in a year or two years want something for country that he represents or for a company that he represents,

that's the kind of money i won't take. >> dickerson: let me ask you about constituency that may be interested, you told "time" magazine i have hedge fund guys that are making a lot of money that aren't paying anything. would you change that and how would you do it? >> i would change it to pay nothing. it's ridiculous i want to save the middle class. the hedge fund guys didn't build this country these are guys that shift paper around they get lucky. by the way when the market collapses like it is now, the market is going down they're losing a fortune, they're energetic, very smart, lot of them it's like paper pushers they make a fortune, they pay no tax it's ridiculous, okay? some of them are friends. some of them i couldn't care less about it's the wrong thing. the hedge fund guys are getting away with murder. they're making tremendous amount of money, they have to pay taxes. i want to lower the rates for the middle class. the middle class is one getting absolutely destroyed. this country doesn't -- won't have a middle class very soon. >> dickerson: i want to ask you

about the question about conservatism. there's been people wonder what you are, jeb bush say you're not conservative. prove him wrong. >> well, you know, you could say that about ronald reagan. ronald reagan was a democrat with a very, very liberal mean. he actually became republican who was fairly conservative i would say most conservative but fairly. and he joked about, he evolved as he got older, i have also. don't forget, when you label me, i was never politics. never really mattered what people called me didn't make any difference. also i was in manhattan where everybody is democrat. if you get democratic nomination for city council or anything that means you won the owel even though the election hasn't taken place. it's automatic. i was from an area that was all democrat. over the years, especially as i've gotten more and more involved, i have evolved.

and i have taken positions that are different than the past. i feel strongly about them. but i've also taken position of common sense. when i look what's happened to our country, our country is going down. we're going down, john. and i'm going to make this country great again. i'm going to do the right thing for the country. >> dickerson: we'll look forward to catching up out without on the campaign trail, thanks so much for joining us. >> thank you very much, john. dickerson: friday we traveled with iowa caught up with two other republican candidate, new jersey governor chris christie and his thoughts on donald trump's machine to fix illegal immigration. >> in many ways too simplistic, idea of building a wall, kicking everybody out. and all sound appealing in some respects to some folks i think it's a very complicated problem and understand how do to do complicated solution to that problem.

>> dickerson: is that the larger question about mr. trump's policy that they're too simplistic? >> listen to everyone of his proposals that he's put out there but i'll say this. i understand why the american people are frustrated. they're frustrated because they feel like government can't do anything right. they can't execute on anything. the difference in my approach, now how to enforce the law. i did it as u.s. attorney. i'm doing it as governor of new jersey. very difficult circumstances in democratic legislature what they want to have a detailed plan that they know someone can execute on and enforce and not have history of doing that. >> dickerson: you mentioned birthright citizenship. your position is what on it? >> it's in the constitution. i don't think that we should be looking to change it. now, what i said was if we want to have comprehensive immigration reform i'd be willing to listen to anything. but the truth of the matter is, that that is not something we should be focused on that's -- it's in the constitution, let's talk about the things that we

can fix and fix simply without having to amend the constitution. two-thirds of the congress and 38 states agree. >> dickerson: after the last election republican party had bit of soul charging moment, republican national committee put together report said republicans have to get behind comprehensive immigration reform. that closer to your position on immigration, but it seems that the party -- passion in the party is moving towards more restrictive view on immigration. how do you see it? >> i don't agree. i think the passion in the party is towards getting it right. getting it fixed. and i think that the frustration that people feel is congress and president who refuses to enforce the law. the problem, john, that people are just absolutely fed up with promises in this country. they see the president only enforcing laws he likes, not enforcing the laws that he doesn't like, not working with the states in way that would i can ha sure the laws are enforced i'd be clear on this. i think the frustration is that government is not working not getting the job done. the fact is in new jersey we've

been able to do this the right way and that's why 51% of the hispanic vote when i was rereelected, republicans can do this, and to get them to vote for us as well. >> dickerson: hillary clinton has had lot of challenges with her e-mail server. in responding to those attacks she's blamed the press, she has blamed partisan and she said, you know, trust me on this. when it's all through you'll find out i was exonerated. a lot that have sounds like what you said during bridgegate. >> except that i'm telling the truth and she's not. fact is that this is a perp won't even answer the questions. remember something, when hillary clinton goes hour and 15 minute with press conference where she takes every question then she can talk to me, that's what i did the day after. the day after. everything i said the day proven to be true. here is the problem with hillary clinton. she won't answer any questions. why did she have private e-mail server to begin with. why was she doing all of her

business over private e-mail server. john i work for the federal government for sech years at u.s. attorney. one of the rules they told you right in the beginning do your business over the government server. that's what they told you to do so they could have record of all of that. she didn't do that. >> dickerson: she would say the other previous secretary of state had private accounts. >> hi had private accounts in addition to the public accounts. she never used it. this is what the clintons do all the time, john. they try to divert attention. you don't want to answer the question, we know, john, you and i both know why. she wanted to keep what she was doing secret and from the public. didn't in the r want any record. because as soon as she was out of office she wiped the server clean. this is the kind of -- >> dickerson: that's your interpretation. she only wiped personal stuff. >> why else would you did delete thousands and thousands ever e-mails, john. because you didn't want anybody to sight. as a matter of fact that mrs. clinton never wants to answer the question she tries to divert it.

here is going to be the problem come next fall when i'm her opponent. never been cross examined by a prosecutor like me. she'll be cross examined like a prosecutor like me on the other side of the stage and she won't be able to stand up to the scrutiny. >> dickerson: democrats those supporting her say governor christie had missing texts. >> we had 12 missing text messages that was sent when we weren't under investigation. mrs. clinton deleted e-mails when she was under subpoena. in my neck of the woods we call that obstruction of justice. >> dickerson: you've been talking about entitlement reform what has it been like trying to get that in the conversation, what is the reception been. >> people understand it they get it they want to be told the truth they don't like it. they don't like fact that they keep money in trust fund and stole all the money and lied and said there's a trust fund still there. but they are happy that there is finally leader who selling to stand up say the government lied to you and stole from you. now we have to fix it. the media just not that interested because it's

complicated. it's more than like for five-second answer. they get -- one question about entitlement in the entire debate with weeks ago yet it's 71% of federal spending along with debt service. how could it be that we have one question in two hours on something that's assuming really 71% of the federal gung. r budget i'm going to keep talking about it because you got to do that. >> dickerson: thanks so much. >> thanks, john. appreciate it. >> dickerson: lieutenant sat down with texas senator ted cruz before an event at the iowa hall of pride. began by asking about granting automatic citizenship to the children of undocumented workers. >> i think birthright citizenship as a policy matter doesn't make sense. we have right now upwards of 12 million people living here illegally. it doesn't make any sense that our law automatically grants citizenship to their children because what it does is it in sent advises additional illegal immigration. but the heart of what donald

proposed indeed what i've introduced is we got to get serious about securing the borders, if you go and you talk with law enforcement, as you know i represent texas. we've got 1200 miles of boarder with mexico. when you go visit with law enforcement, when you visit with border patrol always about what works the number one most effective tool that works is boots on the ground. that's why i filed legislation to triple the bore. i was very glad to tee that donald trump agrees with that. the legislation i filed would also increase four-fold the fixed wing aircraft that we use technology to monitor the border to supplement the boots on the ground. but then beyond that, 40% of the illegal immigration doesn't come across the border at all it's visa overstay. legislation i introduce would put in place a strong buy met particular exit-ebb tree system to stop visa over stays and should put in place a robust e-verify system so you can't get a job without demonstrating

you're here illegally. not that we don't know how to solve illegal immigration what is missing is the political will to get it done and as president i will get it done. we will secure the borders. >> dickerson: in 2011 you mentioned basically there's quote here you said 14th amendment provides for birthright citizenship, look at arguments i will tell you as supreme court litigate for those arguments are not very good. as legal matter, though, it can't be touched, right? >> that's not true. there are two different pieces. there's the policy matter and legal matter. as a policy matter i think now, i thought then, we should end birthright citizenship. in 2011 in that same conversation i've publicly said we should end birthright citizenship. did i so in writing. second question, how does one do it. constitutional scholars differ in terms of the way that it can be effectively done. some constitutional scholars argue congress could pass a law defining what the words in 14th amendment subject to the

jurisdiction mean. others argue, no, it couldn't be done by statute. it must be done by constitutional amendment. my view, there's good faith argument on both sides. she pursue whichever one is effective. but as policy matter, we should change the law. but what i also said in that interview this is important, john. is we're facing a crisis with illegal immigration. law enforcement crisis a national security crisis, any change in birthright citizenship be stance statute or constitutional amendment would take many years. the first priority should be securing the border and we can do that with a president unlike president obama, who will actually enforce the laws and get the job done. >> dickerson: let me ask you, you're hosting gathering here in protection of religious liberty in your speech announcing presidency you talked about it. ever since, we know that will be part of your presidency. what in a cruz presidency would same-sex marriage look like. >> when it comes to religious

liberty, it has been a foundational passion of mine for decades. i have a long record of standing and defending religious liberty and winning successfully whether it was defending the ten commandments on the state capital grounds, win 5:00-4 before. defending the ledge of allegiance, the words "one nation under god" winning unanimously in front of the supreme court or defending the mojave desert memorial. why representing three million veterans defending that memorial we won 5-4 in front of the u.s. supreme court. this is a deep passion. and today we're pretaping this rally here in iowa, but thousands of people in support of religious liberty, what this rally is doing is its telling the stories of ordinary people across the country who are here today who stood up for their faith and who were persecuted. lot of folks in the media that they belittle the threats, they say they're not real, they're made up. this rally is all about putting

names and faces and people to the persecution, for example, one couple is here, dick and betty, they're a wonderful couple. older couple they owed -- many years they posted wedding in their church. couple of years ago two men came to them and wanted to have same-sex wedding in their church. the odegaard who are devout mennonites, said, hosting a homosexual wedding ceremony in their church was deer their faith they couldn't do it. they were sued. they went through protracted litigation, paid $5,000 to settle the case. they promised never again to host another wedding. they have gone out of business. laid off all their employees. why? simply because they stood up for their faith and religious beliefs. we're a nation that was founded on religious liberty and the liberal intolerance we see trying to persecute those who as

matter of faith follow biblical definition of marriage is fundamentally wrong. >> dickerson: senator cruz, thanks so much. >> thank you, john. dickerson: we'll be back in one minute. can a business have a mind? a subconscious. a knack for predicting the future. reflexes faster than the speed of thought.

can a business have a spirit? can a business have a soul? can a business be...alive? >> dickerson: there's been a lot of chatter about whether vice president joe biden is going to join the presidential race. yesterday we got actual news, biden met with senator elizabeth warren. have some fresh details about biden's deliberation process. why does it matter that he met? >> because really at the strongest indication yet that joe biden is seriously considering running for president. she is an icon of liberals and progressive if she were to support joe biden it would be game changer. she'd bring about more diverse coalition than what we've been seeing for bernie sanders. visible women in the democratic

party. joe biden talking about joe officer scranton he prides himself from being champion for middle class so platform as economic progressive would be natural for him to run on. >> dickerson: i talked to someone who saw this iep if elizabeth warren doesn't endorse him for support just doesn't stand in his way this democratic strategist was saying, joe biden's connection with the middle class is at a gut level. he wouldn't the way hillary clinton has had to keep re-affirming that he comes from modest roots. voters just get that. this person saw this as real sign of where he would be aiming at hillary's vulnerability. >> i think that's right. dickerson: hillary clinton vulnerable -- sorry. we'll back in a moment. kid: hey dad, who was that man?

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>> dickerson: in politics and president sees, we measure things at the speed of twitter. a new poll, a new outrage, it washes through in a flash. >> look, donald trump in a big plane. >> last week former president jimmy carter announced his cancer diagnosis. and i ripped the quick and mow ten terry cycle with talk of eternity and final judgment. >> we had mri of my head and neck and it showed up that it was already in my brain. so, i would say that night and next day until i came back up to emery. i just thought i had a few weeks left. >> dickerson: facing the end of his life former president said he was not troubled. >> i've had wonderful life, i've had thousands of friends and i've had exciting and adventurous, gratifying existence. so i was surprisingly at ease. my name is jimmy carter i'm running for president.

>> in politics it has become a accustom in both nears knock by comparing to carter one-term president desieged by economic and foreign policy woes. >> it is a crisis that strikes at the very heart and soul and spirit of our national will. >> dickerson: hard to imagine anyone who would mind being compared to the man at that press conference who could look over his life and 35 years since he has been president and face its end at peace. and with a smile. ♪ want to see your future? you're me, right? (engine rev) i obviously haven't slowed down at all! what do you think?

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>> dickerson: some of our cbs stations are leaving us now for most of you we'll be right back with lot more "face the nation." including our political panel plus a conversation with cbs documentary film maker ken burns on the new version of the civil war.

>> dickerson: we're back with our panel, ruth marcus with the washington force, michael sheerer is the washington bureau chief for "time" magazine wrote the cover story. for this week's magazine and man raju covers the call pain for politico m manu i want to start with you, you covered immigration wars on the hill. when donald trump talked about the good people who were here illegally coming back in. won't that be seen as amnesty? >> that will be opening to some of the folks pushing, trying to regain their -- get notice. >> dickerson: what's interesting, too, how ted cruz is trying to show immigration hard liner in this. as donald trump has dominated the debate on immigration. you heard ted cruz talk about

legislation that he introduced. things that actually sounded a lot like the donald trump plan. donald trump has with dominating the narrative on immigration, it shows just how much ted cruz has been hurt by donald trump in this debate. in this race. a lot of key party supporters, those folks evangelicals who support -- should support at the time cruz are flocking to donald trump. you see all these candidates recalibrate their position based on what donald trump has been saying on the campaign trail. immigration is one of those issues. >> dickerson: like trying to catch those supporters on the rebound. in that recalibration, michael that manu talks about, who is taking advantage of trump immigration moments? was there another candidate who grabbed it and said, here, i can seize the limelight? >> rick santorum did. hard to say he's taking advantage, he is 1% of the polls. we're at the stage of the race where the posture matters more

than the substance of what you're putting out, clearly on immigration trump is winning. coming across as the toughest -- saying things like, we're going to move them all out. totally unrealistic plan. if you go back to trump quoted saying that mitt romney's plans to self deport america's undocumented immigrants was crazy. now he's saying we're going to do it because i can manage things. it's all posed it's winning for him. he's -- which isn't as much about policy or ideology it's about i am the guy who actually gets stuff done, i'm not corrupted like the rest of the political, i'm a fighter. >> dickerson: and jeb bush tried to get in the conversation this week a little bit. he's the one, got a little testy when he was asked about the anchor babies and using that term for people born un-- to the parents of undocumented immigrants. where is jeb bush in the conversation? >> gub bush appeared to me to be

trying very hard to attack donald trump in way that he hasn't done, really, until now. he didn't think he had to. he didn't think that trump was going to last past the summer. be the force that he is now dragging immigration, the most salient example but dragging the whole field either to the right or along with him. jeb bush appeared to think that this was demagoguery. built you saw him do it this week which suggests that he's a good bit more worried as his others would say. >> dickerson: what is your sense how -- jump in. >> he did it this week but he did it without rejecting the use of the term anchor babies. let me just say, that week in which the republican party is talking about anchor babies and what to do about them and talking about repealing birthright citizenship is not long term a good week for the republican party. and one other really quick point, i think that -- this is

really -- it's dangerous for the republican party but there's very interesting opening for trump -- would-be competitors on the right. with this argument about the good people. because now it seems like we're going to have the nice store but kind of trump revolving door where interpreter amount of money to get everybody outbreak up families, then you get the good people back in which is entirely inconsistent with his argument that we need everybody out because they're taking wages and jobs away from the good people already here who are american citizens. opening on the right long term problem for them. >> jeb is trying to become the trump alternative in this race. he's clearly -- that's why he's taking the tougher line. realize that the -- jeb people that trump is probably here to say, to show some variance between him and trump so this he can electable alternative. >> you were in his office where

he brought a bald eagle along. but also having fun. >> he is. you remember jeb bush came into this race be the joyful candidate, there's no joy in jeb bush right now. what trump has shown is that the other candidates have yet to find their voice. jeb is struggling to be tough without being angry, scott walker you saw over the last week really starting to couple come up with any answer on immigration that had details that made sense. he's running as a bold courageous conservative that took on the unions but can't answer basic questions on the trail. it's hurting his message. i think say lot of things about trump many are true. but you can't say doesn't know who he is and what his act s. when he goes on tv, he gives an off the cuff hour long speech before 20,000 people, he knows exactly who he is. voters pick up on that. >> he's not going any place where his ratings war as good as they are. he's all about the ratings and they're terrific. like a lot of people, i was

wrong, i thought donald trump was going to self destruct, he is not going to self destruct. somebody like jeb bush or somebody is going to have to help destroy him. but the interesting piece that shows that he is in fact destroyable was in i think a cnn poll. 58% thought someone of voters i think republican voters thought donald trump, republican party did not have as good a chance to take back the white house only 30% thought he represented the best chance to take back the white house. so the questions this infatuation is going to last past summer when voters really have to bet serious start thinking about a third democratic term, it's donald trump really going to be there. >> one other republican candidates drop out of the race like later in the primary season that is when, will the voters income to trump or walker or jeb. >> we haven't seen a counsel

down. we are going to talk about against donald trump. haven't seen them really start to say, we got to get rid of this guy because messing upment race. >> it could happen. >> with super pac, is that process could take lot longer. >> i was going to say if you look at the last month and a half, trump we're in an age of -- no one spending lot of money on tv. he's just on tv all day, every day. you can't miss him. other candidates have been pushed aside. that will change, jeb has 100 million dollars to start to spend on tv in the early stages. lot of other candidates, cruz has $50 million. this is significant money even perry has millions of dollars in the bank. >> not just going to be iowa, new hampshire, south carolina. >> people can write you $5 million checks or $10 million checks, trump at 25% could be

beaten by someone else who was at greater percent but got the fractured field and the capacity to stay there for a long time that's where the party could really have a problem. i for the first time, i can imagine trump winning the nomination. >> dickerson: winning the nomination. app, switch to the other party and talk about hillary clinton who you cover. not another good week for her on the e-mail and server question. walk us through why that was the case? >> well, they have been trying to put this to rest as much as is possible. the campaign does know that this is an issue that is going to stick with her. for months, well into the 2016 calendar the way the e-mails are being released by the state department. and the way the republicans are using it guarantees that. what they have been trying to do is not get in the way. and this is another week in which what she said herself seemed to get in the way.

she had a short press conference which didn't really win her a lot of great reviews the other day where she got quite angry, visibly irritated at questions about the e-mail issue. and then the campaign spent the rest of the week trying to put out their version of events which continued all the way into saturday, campaign has had a press conference for beat reporters on friday afternoon by telephone, anything you want to know and ask before the weekend, we're here to clear it up. helpful, maybe. but they clearly didn't get the job done because all day yesterday there was a tweet barrage of giving their version. >> dickerson: when i was calling around about the biden question whether he's going to get in the race, somebody talked to him, sort of felt like mishandling, created a new opportunity for joe biden, do you see it that

way? >> absolutely. that's why we are reading all of this biden chatter, hearing all the biden chatter. he's clearly trying to let this play out as long as possible to watch what happens to hillary clinton. what joe biden has wanted to be president is running for president since hillary clinton was first lady of arkansas. does he want to run, yes. he's looking at whether -- not whether he can win the general election but whether he thinks at this point he can win the nomination. i think in the end that he will conclude that he can't at this point. >> dickerson: he cannot. >> he won't run. i'm not imagining that senator warren is going to go endorse joe biden right now. doesn't afford the bankruptcy bill back when she was harvard law professor. >> dickerson: michael, do you think he would run? >> rees doing everything we be doing if he intended to run. we also know that joe biden that

he has never stopped swimming forward. always like a shark. always goes forward. it would be a huge decision for him. decision not just about not running but basically stepping out with many years left in his life the game that has been his life. it would be very difficult decision. i think the cost for him of getting in the race, seeing how it goes, maybe he takes off, maybe he doesn't take off is not that great considering the alternative. i'm not as confident as you. >> what is joe biden in the democratic primary. bernie sanders getting a lot of support from the left. and hillary clinton had her own -- own diverse, can biden pull enough from the -- >> dickerson: we'll be back in a minute.

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dad: yeah, 20 something years now. thinking about what you want to do with your money? daughter: looking at options. what do you guys pay in fees? dad: i don't know exactly. daughter: if you're not happy do they have to pay you back? dad: it doesn't really work that way. daughter: you sure? vo: are you asking enough questions about the way your wealth is managed? wealth management at charles schwab. >> dickerson: cep burns may be the most renowned documentary film maker of his time. in his 1990pbs "the civil war" was seen by almost 39 million viewers. 25 years later the film has been converted to ultra high definition and will air on pbs for five nights starting september 7th. we sat down earlier with ken burns and talked about the new version of the film and how the civil war is still affecting american's conversation on race. >> i wept in as we were

beginning the process and literally burst into tears, archive that i've known sort of in my bloodstream all of a sudden i had new details. i hadn't noticed that musket. i hadn't noticed the way the hand was resting on a pistol. also reminded me of the centrality of this event. it's okay to tie pretty bows, okay go to make up get camera ready what we have done for new age. it's another thing to understand and come to terms with the centrality of this event. it's accu pieing all the films that i'm working on now and yet it stays there. when the constitutional convention happened, man named john chapman that said slavery was like a sleeping serpent, it lay coiled upped the table during the deliberation, thereafter slavery was on everyone's mind if not always on his tongue. so we pundit in 1776 and four

score and five years later we went to war, the most important event in our history. >> dickerson: are you surprised that polls show that more people think that the civil war was about entrochement of the federal government than about slavery. >> we've broken up as country with a lot of powerful sim becomes of the civil war in popular culture that would be birth of a nation. and gone with the wind, of course. and in that, it postulates among other things, both films, that the ku klux klan which is a home grown terrorist organization was actually a heroic force in the story of the civil war. it's no wonder that americans have permitted themselves to be it's about state's rights, null if i takes occasion, differences between cultural, political, that shaped the north and the south. if you read south carolina's

articles of -- first stayed to secede. the birthdays of cessation. the home of the original fire feeters as they were called in reaction to abraham lincoln they do not mention state's rights. they mention slavery. slavery. and that we have to remember. it is much more complicated than that but essentially the reason why we murdered each other more than 2% of our population, 750,000 americans died, that's more than all the wars from the revolution through afghanistan combined. was over essentially the issue of slavery. >> dickerson: you mentioned the themes they worked on 25 years ago had been running through your work ever since then. >> the main american three-point is freedom. it's about individual freedom in opposition or intention with collective freedom. it's about state's rights versus

strong federal government. all of these tensions have been in place since the very beginning. even before the beginning. but we also noticed that race is always there. always there. when thomas jefferson says all men created equal he owns couple hundred human beings he doesn't see the contradiction or hip pock track see and doesn't free anybody in his lifetime, sets in america an american narrative that is bedeviled by a question of race. we struggle with it. we try to ignore it. we pretend with the election of barack obama that we're in post racial. of course, we're not. the on one magazine got it right when he was inaugurated said black man given worst job in the world. what we have seen is kind of reaction to this. the movement which donald trump one of the authors of is another politer way of saying the n word. more cities take kate a little bit more clever. he's different.

what is other and different about shim it turns out same old thing the color of his skin. >> dickerson: tell me about the pattern of forgetting. in the 25 years, the ears of the audience, lot that happened since the civil war documentary, there is facebook and e-mail and snap chat and the attention span for these lessons to be heard again are we more in the business of forgetting than ever? >> it's interesting, 25 years ago the critics said, this is terrific but no one is going to watch it, ken. there's mtv and the fast-paced cutting people have the attention span of natural. we're saying the same thing now. we live in world which we are being buried in an avalanche of information that comes from this near constant present moment. if you live in the present in disposable presence nothing else matters. we are desperate for cure rakes. when somebody stops says, here

is 11 half hours of the most important event in history. but they watch. back then, they watch now. the roosevelt or the national parks are film on world war ii or jazz or baseball. i think it's because all that have information comes to us sort of unregulated. unmediated. we talk about binge watching that is people saying, i wish to be the author of my own time. all know what it's like to be at some website which is aggregating news and half hour later, no idea what you just raid. maybe you'll be articulate at the next cocktail party but you captain remember what it was. you don't forget a civil war. you don't forget a house of cards. you don't forget whatever it is that has your attention span.

in the end all accrues in duration. the work that you care about the most, the relationships you care about the most have benefited from your sustained attention. that is true for every human being. >> dickerson: you studied jefferson, roosevelt, lincoln, spent time thinking about presidents and the long scope of history. give me your reflexs on the presidency now, what we tolerate, left, right, center, whatever. in our leaders now and whether our lack of patience, whether there's a problem with that or -- >> best question. really only question there is. about contemporary elections i think what the election of 1800 between thomas jefferson arguably the man of the millennium despite all his faults and john adams one of the most important and interesting figures in all of american history was as low and dirty as you could get. if you were to vote for jefferson your wife and daughter were subject to rape by those -- if you were voting for john

adams your voting for next king of america. that didn't happen. so we can sit back and exhale a little bit go, okay, the kind of circus that we see is kind of always gone on. we do have a problem in which we have media that is bigger than the ideas and the talk itself. if abraham link on delivered gettysburg address which is only two minutes, c-span would cover it, but would say president came to gettysburg to try to detract attention from his military campaign out west. and that is partly true. that's what -- not trying to distract attention trying to honor the dead but that would have been the news story we might have missed the greatest speech even though somebody saw it on c-span say that was -- i'll send you youtube of it that's the problem. we want -- we can see in the long scope of history that there is something really elegant,

there's something really complicated and subtle about history, about leadership. and that we have a mechanism right now that doesn't always select for that. >> dickerson: do you think we're too disposable the way we treat leaders? >> very much so. i find the way we throw them out and make instantaneous judgments, the notion that abraham lincoln or george washington or thomas jefferson didn't have a misstep or didn't have sort of slow second term or didn't do something, it's done. i think the good thing about history, harry truman said the only thing that's new is the history you don't know. in some ways, that sort of saying that it gives you, it arms you with a kind of distance that permits you to not make those rash judgments about somebody or some idea. when the melt down happened,

we're in depression. in the depression in most american cities the animals in the zoo were shot and meat distributed to the poor when that happens i'll agree we're in a depression. all of a sudden, you get to exhale again and then that's history's greatest gift. it wasn't then, it's now. it's not was, it's is. i think that is what the civil war is talking to us, as if it happened not 150 years ago, but right now. >> dickerson: to see more of our interview with ken burns including look what he's working on next, please visit our website at facethenation.com. we'll be right back.

>> dickerson: exciting news on the panda beat. the national zoo's giant panda mei xiang gave birth to two healthy cubs, rarity in captivity. first cub was born in the late afternoon and second was born just after 10:00 p.m. zoo officials have not yet determined what sex the cubs are. the cubs may have been born in the united states but the 14th amendment does not apply to

pandas, issue is black and white. mei xiang is on loan to the national zoo from china her cubs will return thereafter spending first few years state side. we'll be right back.

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>> dickerson: that's aim the time we have today until next week for "face the nation" i'm john dickerson. captioning sponsored by cbs captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

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