>> dickerson: joining me is republican presidential candidate and kentucky censor rand paul. you heard secretary clinton, what did you think? >> you know i thought one of the most interesting parts was refugee crisis. and i think frankly that hillary clinton bears some of the responsibility for the crisis. thomas freedman wrote an op ed saying that basically iran and saudi arabia had been arsonists throwing gasoline on flames there. but in way so has hillary clinton's policy of putting arms into that situation. they say give them to the good people. it wasn't possible to find the good people many of the good people were al qaeda and some of these people became isis. it was a bad idea, continues to be bad idea to arm the allies of isis to arm thal ice of al qaeda. >> dickerson: what would you do in this situation? >> bad people on both sides.

assad is a person who gassed his own people, on the other side you have really the remnants of the people who attacked us or people with similar ideology to al qaeda. arming either sides was a mistake. but there are people caught in the middle. two million christians in syria they're bought in the middle if you ask them who they rather have assas or isis all tell you assad. even though bad as he is, christians are a little safer under assad than under isis, we shouldn't do anything to push back assad or to bomb assad or defeat assad because really what that does is it opens the space for isis. >> dickerson: what did you think about secretary's idea of 65,000 syrian refugees coming to the united states? >> my first thought is some of the arsonists should accept them. saudi arabia doesn't seem to be willing to take any. shiite muslims and saudi arabia won't take them, why would not iran want to accept them. these are the people who have been stoking the films over there. been an, qatar, all the people

pouring arms, all the rich sheik-doms aren't they? >> the argument that the united states when it does this kind of thing, plays leading role in the world. that that is way in which the united states gets out of situation finds in than more war-like. >> one of the great deal of sympathy of the people that are displaced you can't see the pictures of the young boy that drowned over there not have great deal of sympathy. there are private groups trying to bring people. there is project trying to bring christians to our country. i think we do have to be a little bit weary we brought 65,000 from iraq after the iraq war, part of me says, we won the war, why wouldn't people who wanted them to stay in iraq help rebuild the country. why take out 65,000 of the best people. in this situation there's not really a choice. those 65,000 people are the hundreds of thousands of people are stranded. but at the same time, i think we

have to go to first causes as to what caused it in the first place. and try not to -- at least learn from the experience and not throw gasoline on these wars. what do do in the immediate aftermath some of the 65,000 came from iraq after were trying to buy missiles in my hometown of kentucky. be weary of the threat of mass migration. >> dickerson: that's what the gentleman talks about the president being muslim and that he -- that's what he was talking about is the danger from that. should donald trump have said mig? >> i don't think we shouldn't question the president's faith that is kind of crazy someone does, we should rebuke. that getting back to sort of this mass migration, there was an article about some of the people coming in listed 19-year-old boy from afghanistan his only paperwork was hungarian political asylum no. other paperwork, no passport. we'd be foolish to say there's no danger. from mass migration. so we need to be very weary of

that. people who visit our country on student visas, auto i am for ending it but for really understanding who is coming to visit our country before they come. >> dickerson: this issue led to ben carson said that he would not feel comfortable if a muslim was president. what do you make that have? >> well, i think, it's not so much what religion you are it's what you stand for. i don't think that we're really anywhere near that happening because small minority in our population. but i think the hard part is, while we are very pureistic society. more free than any other country the people have been attacking us, it's hard to separate. that i understand people saying, my goodness, you know -- >> dickerson: would you have problem with the muslim president though? >> i try to see that as a separate thing, someone's religion. i just think that it's hard for us, we were attacked by people

who were all muslim, it's incumbent, this is what i've been saying all along, civilized islam needs to step up say this doesn't represent us. i know they d. but i don't hear enough of it. i need to hear more of it. frankly think that saudi arabia often stoked the films of radical islam instead of trying to be helpful. >> dickerson: wouldn't have problem with that. let me ask you about debate over planned parenthood and, the president of the nationality right to life has said that while nobody wants to be in front of planned parenthood that is threatening a government shut down actually hurts the cause. what do you think that have argument? >> i think we're missing sort of the bigger picture on everything. not just planned parenthood. we borrowed million dollars a maybe if you do continuing resolution you're acknowledging that the government vote and you'll vote to continue spending money at rate that is unsustainable. not just planned parenthood it's everything. i think we need to flip the tables. everybody saying, we have to have 60 votes to defund planned

parenthood we should be saying the opposite. to 60 votes to fund planned parenthood and everything in government we'd need to start from scratch which means, yes, hold the line and i'm for saying, let's put hundreds if not thousands of restrictions on all the spending. that's how congress should assert themselves. we have a path to congress that is basically advocating their role vis-a-vis the president that's a problem. i would hold the line. if i were in charge of congress i'd put forward spending i would say, this is what it is. and democrats don't vote for it then democrats would be shutting down government. >> dickerson: whose fault is it that congress doesn't act in the way you'd like, particularly republicans. >> congress has been advocating its sole as hundreds of years, probably back to the time of woodrow wilson. it's gotten worse, it's twofold. one president obama is frustrated because he can't get anything passed. he grabs more and more power. if congress let's him do it, it's because we don't pass any of the appropriation bills. and it's been 40 years since we

passed all of the appropriation bills. that's our job. one reason i won't vote for any continuing resolution, period, i won't vote for any of them not the way we should do business, nothing gets fixed if you vote for continuing resolution, voted for the status quo. >> dickerson: what you i do the government shuts down? >> i hope that it doesn't continue on without reform. that's different way of putting it. but i would put forward spending bills, i would say to the democrats, need to vote for them or you shut down government or you come and negotiate with us. right now there's no negotiation because we just acknowledge, we don't have 60 votes to stop any funding but it's our job in the american people, particularly republicans, you wonder why outsiders are doing on the polls it's because the republicans in washington are doing nothing to reign in spending. on anything. >> dickerson: final question. as i talked about with secretary clinton there's a big appetite for outsiders. that's what he said about you -- >> they still do. dickerson: but polls at the

moment, snapshot in time, seem to like other kinds of outsiders, what do you think accounts for that? is senator a dirty word? >> i ran for office because i was unhappy about washington, i still am. the more i see washington, the more unhappy i am of how thing are disfunctional and don't work. i'm a huge proponent of term limits. i would throw everybody out, myself included, i'm serious. we need to start afresh. 12 years is more than enough time in the senate, more than enough time in the house would get nor turnover. the status quo remains because the same people remain, decade after decade. i think sometimes they harken back back to electorate that elected them in 1908 or 1976 that is not today's electorate they have not kept up with the times. the people, the public about a decade ahead of government but you need more turnover in government and right now people are upset and unhappy and rightly so. i'm one of them. >> dickerson: senator rand paul, thanks so much for being with us, we'll be right back with our panel. stay with us.

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i thought it was quite composed. direct, quite collected. it isn't that she changed, i think, many of the things she's been saying for awhile but she seemed mostly comfortable. my own view was that she made mistakes on the issue of planned parenthood and late-term abortion when she didn't give an inch. she essentially said, planned parenthood, just fine. late-term abortion, very complicated but, no, she won't be opposing it. these are issues that i think people are ready to be very thoughtful on, compromising on and not extreme on. i think we'll be hearing something about that. >> i was struck by how conversational she was. often gets on a news interview her shoulders kind of metaphorically clench, she had her daytime demeanor, she was very approachable. maybe a little overly dismisstive i think of the questions on the e-mail.

but i was struck by how much she was trying to let people in, this idea that i'm a real person. her real challenge the e-mail is not going away, is that the only thing. can she fill the other side of the ledger. people for whom this will disqualify her. the questions she convince most americans that there's more to her than what she is now admitting was a mistake. >> dickerson: this comes at a time in strategy for clinton campaign where they're trying to put her more out in front. assess where that strategy stands, where her campaign stands? >> i think it was on friday or thursday she did a town hall, but some kind of event in new hampshire on substance abuse. it was her and people that spoke to the people very conversational, very sort of casual. if those are the kind of events and strategy it's focused on i think it's going pretty well. she came across very well during that event.

i think reaching millions of people, but consistently, steadily, over the course of couple of months it reaches a lot of people. it does show people a different side of clinton that you see in an actual interview or speech. >> i do think that the campaign often has flaw of saying, we need to be more transparent and human. like, actually, you need to be more transparent. i think she did some of that today. she was casual, maybe somewhat forced casual but she responded really well. but i think democrats are wondering is she going to show urgency. her approval numbers are the lows they have ever been. lower than any time in 2008 election. lost ground on women. this is a serious problem here. and vice president biden gets into the race it would be very serious race. >> the question is, what is the remedy to the problem. clinton was re-elected on the day he was re-elected majority

of people said they did not consider him honest and trustworthy. that by itself is not a disqualifying variable. the he survive he cared for people like them, was focused on their problems was trying to make things better. i think it is more likely the issue -- if she recovers from a very low point she's going to recover more by improving on that front than radically changing the assessment of her honesty. i think you can make that -- never going to be ideal for her, the core question for her whether she can convince most americans that she understands their problems after being in powerful positions for 20 years as you pointed out, that she has solutions relevant to those problems. that is where the work has to go. no question whether she can get there. >> ron pointed out, when i said, looking for change, there have been -- the first woman. that's quite true. that would be historic. but we know that that is not what the -- what is your reaction to that? >> is she -- mrs. clinton has

been part of the american establishment operating as part of american national political life for a quarter century now. of course she is not -- you couldn't be more an insider, interestingly, if joe biden does decide to come up against her will be another insider not an outsider going up against her. i think part of what she's doing now is simply thinking, i can't dodge the press on all of these issues that are besetting me, i look defensive. she's come out here, i think she'll be coming out probably a great deal more as we see what happens with mr. biden and -- >> and low poll numbers. >> all politician. >> i'm not actually sure democratic electorate is -- if you look at the people who have the highest poll totals they are

secretary clinton and joe biden. >> dickerson: let's switch to republican side. there was debate last week, donald trump. where does he stand coming out of that debate, he's been leader at the top of the polls, give us your assessment. >> it was really mixed. because the trump issues to some extent did dominate. jeb bush announced the tax plan since the last debate. walker announced health care plan, none of that was discussed. 14th amendment was discussed. throw in 11 million people out of the country was discussed. that is still i think, dominated republican discourse. trump himself was tired, repetitive. i think not very impressive. >> dickerson: you are not suggesting low energy? >> that's the worst thing that donald trump can be is warring. that is how he will eventually lose when people think, this is

no longer an entertainment. >> dickerson: ron, you often found creative ways to understand the coalition in these parties. what is the shape of the republican coalition, given that we have 16 candidates? >> it's real interesting. one of the things this election showing, coalition is different than any think. the fact is over the past generation, since the 1960s, much of the working class is realigned from the democratic party, from the fdr coalition to the republican party. this is changing the nature of the republican voting electorate. half of the republican voters in both 2012 and 2008 in the primaries, were voters without a college education. and that is a clear fish urine right before the debate was 40% in 16 person field there was 40% among republicans without a college education only 20% among those with a college education. if you look at the blue collar republicans probably the most alienated element of american society. in fact they support an awful

lot of what donald trump was talking about. majority of noncollege republicans would deport all 11 million people. 60% of those say it bothers when they hear people speaking a foreign language. he has an audience there. the questions what he does feed that audience, raises the barriers with the rest of the party as polling some resistance in that white collar -- the question here is not whether that group will win. i think that sun likely the question is whether the republican coalition that includes that group can win national elections, increasingly diverse country. >> not just diversity there is pressure on both sides. you have obviously alienates american, asian americans and other americans. they may not vote for democrats but may not just come out. >> but you know what, trump sort of reminds you when you see him, even when he somehow reminds you just by his being of how much

you hate the current american political system and those who populate it. i think the challenge for him now is to try to hold ton what he's got and try to move forward by reminding people how much they hate what there is now. >> dickerson: michael, what about carly fiorina. she has done well how does she capitalize. >> i think she won her debate. her first debate. she won the second debate. if you want to win the president sees by debate we'd -- she is very strong candidate. she is the outsider who knows a lot. actually converse sieve with issues. understands foreign policy. intervenes effectively. this is outsider with clear campaign skills. she did in california lose pretty badly. she lost it on her business record, which looks too wobbley. so there's -- has not had the level of scrutiny that she will

now. >> about to get pounded. dickerson: vulnerability, no question about that. >> the polls are moving so much after each of these debate is self invalidating the fact that they can move that much with one debate is a sign that they probably don't need all that much to begin with. but i -- >> what did we do with -- >> there really are two races going on in the republican party two. distinct brackets. you have this populous, more blue collar that has trump, carson, that has huckabee, santorum, jindal, walker, ted cruz right at the top. then you have bush, kasich, rubio, first group more focused on iowa the second on new hampshire. history says that each of those brackets will produce unall likelihood one of the finalists. >> dickerson: who do you think in that other group who did

poorly in this debate. did anybody slip really? >> i think walker did very poorly. i joked while watching it that he spoke at the second hour of da debate, walker is alive, he's here. the post debate polls were indicative that he just disappeared. rubio and kasich did extremely well. i think they both came across very knowledgeable, very smart, i think rubio although some of his lines felt a bit rehearsed, delivered extremely well kind of showing an ability to connect policy to biography to political message that not really anyone else in that field has. >> he sedan interesting thing, where he doesn't put himself forward but he waits for the game to come to him and when it does, he gets a hit. funny thing to say. >> the way they connected -- fact is, is that i think -- in all likelihood you will have an outsider populous who will emerge and in the --

gets down to march and beyond have someone more from the center right. establishment bracket, rubio i think his big question which bracket is he ultimately playing in s. he iowa outsider guy or new hampshire insider guy? >> right. mr. gerson, the last word. >> the question here is whether the establishment is going to work. both bush and clinton are taking the establishment back, you build your organization, your structure, you have money, you do all these things. it's usually been a good bet. except in 1964 and 1972. the question was, is this year different. will the establishment bet work? >> dickerson: all right. michael gerson gets the last word. thanks to all of you. we'll be right back.

>> dickerson: the hope is come to town and washington is going to come to a halt. the streets will close and crowds will greet i am everywhere he goes. he is going to interrupt the daily flow of thing, at least logistically. politics is not likely to be" ripped, though. the pope will address a joint session of congress on thursday. one member is boycotting because he disagrees with the position

on climate change. those wishing to defund planned parenthood will take comfort from the pope's message which has no room for abortion. the excesses of capitalism will ruffle a lot of those same people. same sex marriage supporters have already been protesting the church's position in advance of his visit. the pomp and ceremony will be enormous in washington then later in philadelphia and new york. the pope will travel in his special car and receive the beaming faces of the most powerful people in america. donald trump might very well be jealous. but as leader of the fractured institution that is mending his lesson for the leaders of broken political institution doesn't come from the ceremony, it comes from the smaller visits he makes to prisons where he washes the feet of inmates. and into the crowds at mass where he kissed the disfigured face of a man and prayed with him. it's a message of humility and service to the poor. a hope that after the streets reopen and everyone is seen will

all take attention to the people we pass on the street every day and never see. just stay calm and move as quietly as possible. ♪ no sudden movements. ♪ google search: bodega beach house. ♪

>> dickerson: that's it for us today. thanks for watching. until next week, for "face the nation" i'm john dickerson.

cuban president fidel castr. following a massive open air mass in havana. a historic hand shake on a historic visit. the pope viced castro in cuba. good afternoon. >> chris martinez is live in havana. chris, it seemed like the hundreds of thousands were not just excited just to see a pope but this pope? >> reporter: that is right. many of them are not catholic but the fact that he is a spanish speaker and from a latin country it spoke to them. what is important to them, some