. good morning. and welcome to mosaic. i'm elizabeth. i'm the pastor at saint marks lutheran church. i have been there for almost 18 years. today i get to welcome two pastorial colleagues from san francisco. our first guest this morning is reverend john. he's at calvary presbyterian church for three years now. so fairly new to the city but not new to the bay area. i'm interested and i'm sure our listeners are interested in what is a presbyterian christian these days. and especially a presbyterian christian in san francisco. so tell us about that. welcome rev vand.

>> thank you for having me. a presbyterian in general is someone who believes that god is in charge and we are called to put faith into action. the term actually gomz from a greek work which is a term for i woulder. so we are -- edder. we are comprised of he will ders. and some -- elder is. we try to be his hands and feet in the world. >> wonderful. and you are the pastor at calvary press i did tearian located in pacific heights a well-known neighborhood in san francisco. the church has a long history established in 1849. tell us what calvary presbyterian is like today and the type of people who are drawn there. >> okay. thank you. so calvary, we're actually in our third location. we started out on bush. then we were exactly where the

st. francis hotel is and now we're in pacific heights. we draw from all different neighborhoods and communities in city. we have people who hike up the hill, who take the bus, who come from all over. a lot of people from business backgrounds, some people who just love the arts and the music. we have a very strong music program. and a growing social justice program to make sure we aren't staying on a nice hill and come out and look at the bay that actually come down the hill and open our hearts and try to serve as best we can. >> speaking of business backgrounds, before you were a pastor, you were a business marketing person for ten years. >> yeah. >> and then felt called to ministry, i assume? >> yeah. >> how do you use that business marketing background in what you're doing now? >> well, everyone is in sales when it really, you know, comes down to it. whatever we do. >> yes. >> so cystian at this often --

christiany problems has its challenges. so we like to reclaim christ' name in meaningful ways of service, with people of all backgrounds. so in terms of my background, one of the things we do on the business standpoint is a series of faith in business conversation down in the financial district. so several thursdays each month we get together and people talk about faith, their career, the challenges that they have, you know, hiring and firing and working with colleagues and all the things that make up our days between sundays. so we try to bridge that sun/monday gap in ways that are meaningful. >> help people translate into their day lives. i know that's a passion of yours. >> yes. >> as serving as a pastor. you're also interested in global and local kind of community service projects. tell us about briefly the

upcoming global ministry trip you're planning. >> we're taking a vision trip, can shmeans a small group of people considering how we may serve to cuba. so there's a long-standing presbyterian ministry in cuba. and one of the initial takes just to understand, there is an opportunity for relationship there. there's some cultural exchange. but on the practical side, there's a significant lack of access to clean water in cuba. so -- we term calvary being involved in providing systems that can help ensure 3,000 to 5,000 people in each community are able to have access to clean water. >> wonderful. have you been to cuba before. >> this is my first time. i've been to some other places to serve. water we know in california is a growing issue and we certainly care about it here. but want to make sure we are serving our brothers and sisters around the world for their water needs too. >> nab a wonderful trip. i know there is many local

interests i read on your website. name some others. >> yeah, one of them we're especially excited about is new door ventures. they provide job training and entrepreneurship training for 17 to 24-year-old disconnected youth. >> we'll hear more about that. but we're going to take a break right now and we'll be back with the reverend and our new guest.

0. >> welcome back to mosaic. we've added another colleague here to the show. welcome, bishop jackson. but your full name is rev vand bishop ernie jackson. but i've been told i can call you bishop jackson, is that right? >> that's fine. that's fine. >> good. good. you serve at grace tabernacle church in bay view's hunter point. >> yes. >> that has perfect i apent costal tradition -- a pent cost al. tell us about pent costal christianity and your particular parish. >> it really is -- comes out of the new testament, the book of acts. and american pent costal is actually started in 1906 in

los angeles. its belief in the outpour of the holy spirit that dwells within and is evidenced by speaking of uncs. so pentecostals is a movement to be honor with you. and it's a fast-moving in central and south america and africa. many of us believe that pent costal is in every church that will receive it. in churches here in america. so as a classical pentecostal, our -- we believe in -- as i said, we evolved out of the 1906 experience in last los angeles.

>> so when someone comes to worship there, what will they experience there? it's a highly spirited experience. >> singing. music. >> music. preys worship, drums, organ. tambor evens. clapping and people expressing their thanks and praises to god. >> are you leading the services apastor or is the spirit leading the service? how does that work? >> we believe the spirit leads. but there is -- there's a form and there's -- there's an order. >> yeah. >> but we -- we feel that -- fill that by the holy spirit. and we invite people to freely express how the spirit is leading them in worship. >> so there might be a time of testimony? >> yes. >> yeah. >> one of the things, however, that has shifted in the church

is we don't have a traditional testimony services that we used to have, which a period of time was just blocked out for people to talk about an experience that they had and how god delivered them and helped them how they were divinely healed. we believe in divine healing. i myself have prayed for many people with some very dreaded diseases. and they -- they've been healed. so we flow in that vain of the spirit as well. >> reporter: vein of the spirit as well. >> your congregation is located in bay view hunter's point. >> yes. >> tell us about the congregation itself and what ministries you're involved in in your neighborhood and in the community. >> our congregation is probably like a lot in san francisco. black church congregation where we have people that come to our service that live as far as away as sacramento. and as far south as san jose.

our associate pastor, reverend dr. robinson, she comes from san hoe say. and so people -- people are commuting in. and one of the reasons why, is there's the attachment to the ministry, but what has influenced the migration of the -- the commuting is there's an outmigration of african in san francisco. it is now below 3% and has been a tremendous impact to our congregations. not just mine, but even dr. amos brown of the baptist church. he's experiencing it. that was considered at one time a black mega church in san francisco. all of our congregations are being impacted by it. but those who come in, they have -- they love the ministry and they have a loyalty to the church. >> wonderful. we're going to hear more about your ministry and your two ministries after we take a break

this morning.

,, . >> we are back with our guests this morning. bishop jackson from grace at that better knack el, both -- tabernacle in san francisco. but both located in very, very different neighborhoods. i want to start with you bishop jackson, how did you connect with reverend john and calvary presbyterian church. >> it's a very fascinating church. i was actually attending a piece down in sanford hosted by mr. bland. and i got a phone call, a cold call. >> uh-oh. >> from the reverend who expressed a desire to meet me in

person, marion staton. suggested that john get in touch with me. and we began to talk about some of the issues that were affecting the african-american community. >> so what precipitated -- what precipitated the phone call, then? >> well, after the charleston massacre, i think, like many church felt compelled across the country, envisioning this church that had welcomed a man into their inner circle, into their bible stud, and then having him turn on hem was heartbreaking. when speaking with marion from the seminary as bishop had mentioned, she grew up in alabama and just expressed the sentiment that san francisco often seems more divided than her hometown growing up. we did not feel like just offering a pray in a worship service and then moving on like

everything was all right. was appropriate and wanted to take some kind of a next step. and that led us to bishop jackson. >> so the two of you are developing a friendship, a relationship with each other. you've been involved with worshipping in each other's congregations. >> yes. >> what do you admire the other? >> you know, being a pentecostal, i -- am am very familiar with the form of wereship we have. the high-spirited worshipping. john has a pipe organist and i enjoy hearing the pipe organ and he has a wonderful choir. so it's the refreshing change for me. but also it's the spirit -- the spirit at calvary is very welcomingment and our congregation enjoys going to calvary and participating in our

service. and i think the same is with the calvary congregation as well. >> what do you enjoy? >> sometimes presbyterian are named the frozen chosen. >> i thought that was lutherans. >> well, maybe it's all of us. >> but bishop jackson through the spirit is helping to thaw us out in meaningful ways when we worship together his prayers so powerful and feel directly from the spirit that i hear from people who have never even worshipped at another church who are just drawn and feel moved in ways that they haven't in the past. and bishop jackson is so involved in the community, you know, he doesn't talk a lot about himself. but when i've been out at different community events, the quiet way in which he leads and speaks up when necessary is an inspiration to me. and the man can play the organ, this hammond b3. he's a great musician.

his congregation has wkd us now multiple times. when we come in, sometimes presbyterians including myself can be very awkward huggers. we don't know what to do. i've never been hugged and welcomed more warmly in any church than i have at grace tabernacle. >> it's wonderful to hear. are your -- are there relationships being developed between your members? are you -- do you see that happening as well between your congregational members. >> one in particular that i would like to point out, to a shoutout about is david barns is the youth. >> director of youth ministries. >> and director of huge ministries and we've all connected with david is we did praise and worship at calvary. and she -- it was our first time there and so we were inching our way along and feeling our way, but there's a point in worship

where you lose yourself and you're into the spirit. and so she said this is the way we do it at grace. and she was singing a song about dancing before the lord. and she said, is there anyone that would love to dance before the lord with me? and david barns who is a wonderful brother in christ came out and he just went out with adrian. and david is responsible for breaking the ice, if you will, at calvary because the rest of the congregation felt at liberty to go forth and worship the way we did. so it was a very pentecostal moment. >> yeah, a beautiful moment. >> absolutely. >> it sounds like. >> yeah. >> you mentioned that you don't want to exploit certainly a horrific situation that happened in charleston, but rather you're using that as an opportunity to bridge gaps and develop relationships between your two congregations. where do you see this going?

>> well, idealy and bishop please chime in here, through city hall, throughout the city, through places where voices of justice sometimes aren't heard as fully as they otherwise would be. >> and absolutely. i work very closely with the center for innovation and ministry at the seminary. and i think there's an opportunity for john and i and grace and calvary to do some things that will probably be innovative here in the city and county. our desire is to work with the -- with mayor utley and chief sur in dealing with some of the issues that we -- serious issues that we have. you probably know about the shooting of mario woods. and that night, calvary and grace were together. we were walking the streets and having prayer in bay view harris

point the very night that mario was shot and killed. and it just reinforced in the divine work that the work we were doing, the work we are doing, is much needed and necessary. and it really forced the bond between our two congregations that night. >> as a response to the shooting. >> absolutely. >> you worked together. >> we -- worshipped together. >> we were already out that night together. so everyone was out with the candles, the idea is that we would have a walk and go to different places where people had -- had been killed. and that was already planned and bishop jackson called about two hours before and told us about mario's shooting. and people still proceeded, david shoot came out that night as well to join us. but many eyes were opened that evening. >> what a powerful community statement. >> yeah. >> that your two congregations made together. we're going to hear more about those kinds of opportunities in just a minute after we take a

break.

0. >> welcome back to mosaic. i have with me this morning two pastoral colleagues, two friends now. reverend john weems, calvary

presbyterian, bishop jackson grace tabernacle. both serving congregations in san francisco. very different neighborhoods. as we shared earlier, we had discussed, or we just realized that some of your congregations had never been to each other neighborhood. when did they learn in that experience? >> well, in -- in our case -- and some people sheepishly said i've lived in san francisco for decades and i've never been to bay view hunter's point. maybe i went to a niner's game. but not many people not venturing beyond their comfort zones. what our people learned -- again, in addition to the warm welcome received at grace tabernacle, was really how small the city is. how inner connected we really are. some didn't realize riding the bus connects you from the walk and the bus will drop you off right at calvary. so we're continuing to learn how deeply connected our city is and how issues, police interactions,

et cetera, do impact all of us, regardless of our neighborhood. >> wonderful. we're connected and yet it's easy to believe we are not connected. >> absolutely. >> bishop jackson what did your people learn when they visited pacific heights, calvary presbyterian. >> i think one of the things is unfortunately with -- with african-americans, there's always a hyper sense hyper sense sensety. being welcomed with such warmth really changed the minds and attitudes of most of the people in our congregation. and i hear comments like, i love -- i love it when calvary comes to grace. or i love it when we go to calvary. and it's -- we've been very mindful not to try to exploit a tragic situation or to try to exploit each other and give the

perception that we're just in it for the moment. this is -- we're in this for the long haul. we both have cornerstones in our ministry of social justice. and we believe that the call of christ is to not state in the same in the sanctuary but to go into the highways and the hedges and give a message to those who are hurting, those who are marginized and those who have been disenfranchised by the powers at beand in the city where they dwell. >> you talked about going to city hall together. and i would like to hear a bit and i know our listeners would like to hear, what is the work that the two congregations are doing with the police commission and the needed changes on our police force. >> i see it as an uphill battle because so far, the mayor has not heard our voice.

and -- and neither has the chief. and we've -- we have some things in mind that we feel that are very important for policing in bay view hunter's point that would help forge a better relationship so that our people don't have to be afraid that if they stop they're going to be shot. and the police are not on edge that somebody is trying to do harm to them as well. but it's going to take a lot of work. but we need people like mayor utley and the chief to listen to -- to what we have to say. we believe we have a compelling story to tell and argument. and we have some solutions that might be helpful. and we just don't have time to talk about them on this show. >> well, what's significant is you want to do this work together as two congregations. >> one from our perspective, if someone was shot outside of calvary at jackson, it would be a front-page story. one of the times when we worshipped with bishop jackson,

aman had been shot right down the street and it was buried inside the paper. you had to go look for it to find it. that is not right. and we, from pacific heights to the bay view and everything in between, wish to be a voice to raise those concerns. >> what a learning for both of your congregations. and a deepening of faith as well. you also do some fun things together and there is an event coming up in april that could can be described as a celebration. share about that event. >> well, our church is blessed to have probably one of the most prolific song writers and gifted musicians in the country. his name is steven roberts. and steven heads up a group gospel music workshop in northern california. it's a delegation of singers about approximately 100 singers. and we're going to be coming to calvary and actually the calvary -- some of the calvary choir members are going to be

joining in with the gospel music workshop and we're going to have a concert in april. >> what's the date? >> april 17th. >> time. >> 55:00 p.m. . >> everyone is invited. i'm going to invite saint marks lutheran church to the concert. thank you so much for sharing this story. a challenge to all of us. and we learned a lot. on behalf of my cohost, thank you for joining us on mosaic this sunday morning.

. >> very good. hi again everybody welcome to bay sunday. i'm your host. another big show for you. but first our weekly pitch if you have an idea, we would love to hear you. go to the website and click on connect. scroll down to bay sunday. we're kicking off with a book for you crazy cat lovers out there especially for those kitties that are a bit devilish in personality. it's full of photos letters and excuses and suggestions from cats to the people who love them anyways. the perfect blend of sarcasm and a whole lot of humor going on. it's a book that belongs on your coffee table. pleased to welcome the author. i'm sorry who barfed on your bed. welcome back to the bay area. >>