captioning sponsored by cbs >> dickerson: today, donald trump reverses his position on deporting 11 million undocumented immigrants. or does he? republican nominee dismissed questions from critics and supporters alike who were confused about whether his signature policy still includes mass deportation. >> all the media wants to talk about is the 11 million people or more or lesson day one i'm going to begin swiftly removing, criminals, illegal immigrants from this country. >> dickerson: we'll ask the woman charting a new course for the trump campaign, kelly an conway where trump now stands. also a week. >> from the start, donald trump has built his campaign on prejudice and paranoia.

>> hillary clinton is a bigot who sees people of color only as votes. >> dickerson: we'll talk with trump supporter and former president shall candidate dr. ben carson. hillary clinton's controversies pop up again, a new batch of e-mails and new questions about the cozy relationship between the clinton foundation and state department. house oversight and government reform committee chair jason chaffetz wise in as does donna brazile. 72 days left until the election, the president shall candidates are boiling it down to one question. >> what the hell do you have to lose? >> the answer is, everything. dickerson: all ahead on "face the nation." good morning, welcome to "face the nation" i'm john dickerson. joining us donald trump's campaign manager kellyanne conway. i want to start with immigration, please. first, donald trump has told us

over the last several months on the question of the 11 million undocumented, that they will -- me must leave the country as part of his plan, that seems to have been pretty stable in our conversations with him. now it seems to be shifting, why is that? >> actually he's not, he's pretty consistent, immigration is a very complex issue, so if i may just talk about the six or seven tenants of his plan, i will address your question. first, there's still no amnesty. secondly he's building that wall. that has been the centerpiece of his candidacy and his immigration from the beginning it has not changed one inch. third, we have to have sanctuary cities. next, he has said that he will force -- enforce the law that is a model concept they like to lay law on top of law never enforce it. also said, that for those 11 million if that in fact is the number, he wants to address that issue humanely and fairly, those were his words. also said that he wants to not cause harm to people.

the question what to do. he has said that, if you want to be here legally, you have to apply to be here legally. we all learned in kindergarten to stand in line and wait our turn, he is not talking about deportation, but he is talking about being fair and humane, also being fair to the workers who are competing for jobs, being fair to all of us that want secure borders. >> dickerson: is law to be enforced the 11 million let's just use that number for the moment are here illegally, enforcing the law would mean having them leave. how do they leave? do they self deport or does -- is there -- a deportation force or something that helps them leave the country immediately as he's previously said he'd like to see happen. >> that's really the question here, john. he has to deal with those agencies and those individuals already responsible for this who aren't doing their job. enforce the law the way he wants to enforce the law, he obviously would work with law enforcement, immigration, immigration

agencies, we have ice, we have agencies that already exist that are meant to be doing this already. and again, it's a very unusual idea for a president of the united states that would be president trump to actually enforce a law and see how we can do this in way that to quote him, fair, humane and effective. >> dickerson: someone who has run on being candid about things, apparent muddiness of this caused some of his supporters, he's at the center of immigration studies, sarah palin and anne colter have subtled or think or might be abandoning his position, sheer what he said, whatever remaining chance he had to win the white house is gone. fact now that he has betrayed his base on the signature issue that he ran on seems to me the death knell of his candidacy, he said that to the "wall street journal." what has he got wrong? >> he says something differently in a meeting just last week, or maybe the week before when he was in trump tower for a

roundtable, the fact is i would say all those people, and mr. trump supporters, that look at his plan, you look at the no amnesty, and enforcing the law and making sure that there's no legalization, also said that, it's exactly what he's been talking about all together. and by the way, there are two major choices in that ballot box, if you look at hillary clinton's immigration plan, you see a real -- see convergence of a plan that would actually create more illegals coming in here, porous border, sanctuary cities, catch and release that local law enforcement hands are tied, catching illegal immigrant who has committed a crime. just release them. donald trump said if you committed a crime you're out of here. this isn't just referendum of donald trump's immigration you have to contrast to hillary clinton's, she's been very critical of president obama because he has deported millions

of illegals and because he has used executive amnesty a little bit. but she promises to use that it much more. >> dickerson: let me touch on couple of other issues that mr. drum tweeted after nba's cousin was shot. dwyane wade's cousin was just shot and killed walking her baby in chicago, just what i have been saying, african americans will vote trump. what did he mean? >> tweeted his condolences to the family right after that, like everybody to know about those tweets because i think it's incredibly important for all of us to come together, john, in a very nonpartisan fashion and express our condolences to families like the wade family. also our outrage that things like this can happen. this woman was pushing her baby stroller, four children today including newborn that don't have their mort. >> dickerson: absolutely -- i think it's important that donald trump is taking his message to communities of color. republicans sometimes show up at different forms but they don't continue with this message trying to reach all americans in

the coming weeks you will see mr. trump directly -- >> dickerson: let me ask you -- just a second try to unpack the first tweet. i just don't know what that means. >> i think you have to look at both where he expresses condolences and he says, reminds he's been trying to make the case that the increase in random crime and senseless murders, the poverty, the joblessness, the homelessness in some of our major cities is unacceptable to all of us. the idea that certain politicians, he's not one of them, have looked the other way and have not done everything they can do to help all americans including communities of color, is unacceptable to all of us. certainly unacceptable to a president trump. >> dickerson: some people pointed out in number of instances whether it's orlando shooting, paris attacks now this one, his first instinct to talk about himself, his policies,

tragedy as validation of what he's been saying. is that healthy for president shall candidate to do that? >> but most americans see what he does on a weekly basis which is he gives policy position speeches. he's been out there just in the last two weeks, john, talking about middle class tax relief, law enforcement, communities of color, the corrupt system that is the clinton enterprise. and he's out there actually taking his case to the people. what did hillary clinton give speech on, not energy, infrastructure, economy of jobs, obamacare, defeating terrorism. she talked about him. he's talking -- about issues she talking about him. and that is just remarkable contrast in the way these two individuals are running their campaign. and so, i think people should look at the full measure of the man, look at his plan to defeat radical terrorism. to help our inner cities and also all americans.

and contrast it to hillary clinton who this week i think elevated insult into an art form. frankly, has less the democratic party where i grew up, the democratic party, her fair -- is a big way from hope and change. >> dickerson: what about, donald trump called her a bigot. do you -- is that a campaign position, something he's going to keep saying? >> see what donald trump is called by near low everybody in clinton world including many of her supporters before he gets out of bed in the morning. this man has been called everything in the book, insults, routinely, people think it's funny they put on twitter feeds even though they're supposed to be objective journalists he says, basically to her policies have left people behind. and the policy that she will continue will not help many of the people who still feel like they don't have the same opportunities as education, the same economic upward mobility

that other people have been able to leverage. that they deserve the same. so, pardon me if i can't get all exercised about name calling when hillary clinton gave entire speech this week about name calling, not about the issues, we have no idea what she was doing with obamacare which is failing everywhere, tennessee just this week said that that exchange is failing as well. that would be number 17 by my count of the 23 obviously major pulling out of the exchanges. obamacare looks like a failed experiment. we don't know what she will do about economy of jobs, no idea what y she called isis our determined enemies rather than terrorists. she preferred to pro life republican as terrorist, she doesn't refer to terrorists as terrorists. that's very troubling. >> dickerson: thanks so much for being with us. >> thank you. with us now is democratic national committee chair donna bra brazile. start with a quote from veteran

political reporter al hunted, he writes this in bloomberg. the democrats had successful convention, republicans didn't. clinton's campaign has been smooth, trump as has careened between disasters. she reached out to independents and republicans, he insulted the family of a soldier killed in iraq. clinton out spent him three to one, she's only ahead by five percentage points, why do you think that is? >> thank you, it's great to be back, it's been awhile, good to see you always. if you don't mind let me just start by saying, 53 years ago they dr. king gave historic speech not far from here where he raised our consciousness to talk about ways in which we come together as americans. so, listening to kellyanne i just wanted to remind our friends out there that this is a country that made so many remarkable strides toward more perfect union. i'm proud to be the chair of the democratic party. we have a great election psych

they will year, there's no question that the american people are looking for a candidate who will be able to, what i call, continue to make progress whether on health care, whether it's job creation, of course keeping the country safe and secure. i'm not worried about the polls today because as you know, the polls today reflect pretty much where the mood s. the mood of the country, lot of voters are still undecided. hillary clinton and tim kaine over period of last three weeks they have been able to expand their performance, not just in the so-called battleground states, but we're looking now at opportunities in arizona and georgia and elsewhere to continue to spread this democratic message of inclusion, of stronger job creation, small businesses. i think we're going to have a terrific year this year. >> dickerson: what al shunt getting a at something we hear about, hillary clinton should be doing better, the reason she isn't is in the news, number of different ways this week. first is, the e-mails that were

disclosed of relationships between the clinton foundation and the clinton state department, republicans call it, pay to play. why are they wrong about that? >> first of all the republicans call -- when republicans meet with their donors, their supporters they call it a conflick. it's not pay to play, less somebody actually gave someone 50 cents to say i need a meeting, no. this great country when you meet who constituents, heads of states, meet with people like bono who i love, you meet with them because they have -- want to bring a matter to your attention that's not pay to play. it's called that when democrats do it. it's not called that when republicans do it. >> dickerson: we do see in the e-mails is a kind of easy relationship between the foundation and the state department, foundation calls says, we've got somebody who they say is a friend of ours, they're not saying that because they gave them a gift basket at

christmas. they are saying because they're a big donora friend of ours, can you have this meeting, some times it happens, sometimes it didn't. there's a very easy relationship, is that just the way washington works? >> i don't want to say that is how washington works. i didn't work for the foundation, let me say i'm very strong supporter of the clinton foundation. i remember back in 2001 when bill clinton set up shop in harlem in new york to begin to build a foundation that would help not just poor communities that are struggling, but developing countries with hiv aids, with malaria, other disgusting diseases, this is a foundation that has done remarkable work, even kellyanne conway said they have supported the clinton foundation, i think they had bright purpose, green or blue line between foundation and state department there's no question that when someone knows someone, look, i have friend, do you want to set this up meeting. if you look at all of the so-called chain -- almost at the

point where i'm exhausted reading internal e-mails that have been leaked or somehow another received, even in the case of bono who i mentioned who i love, he had a request in, his music to be streamed through, they rejected it. there is no -- of course we are going to read these e-mails, have a lot of answers from the gossip, some times don't have lot of interest in the crime. in the case of the democrat, i have to mention this because i'm a little bit familiar, democratic party was victim of a cyberattack by a foreign count country. and once we were attacked, the media became obsessed with what was in the e-mails and not the crime itself. in fact, the person who is telling personal information of individuals involved in this serious act, able to come on television and say, i got more -- i have more material to give out to the media. media focus who i call internal

gossip not the crime itself. i am worried about cybersecurity and the threat that it poses to our democracy. >> dickerson: but concern about e-mails because e-mails were in a private server they weren't -- couldn't get to them in the normal way this isn't just some kind of random -- >> and again, going back because i like -- so many lines that you cross talking about e-mails, there's no question that whether the state department e-mails that were released, the state department e-mails that were leaked, state department e-mails that were coming out. however you draw the conclusion, if there's no there there. if by -- if because you were able to get in and see someone by making a request, we saw nobel prize winners wanting to meet with the secretary of state. heads of state, there was a lot of people who wanted to meet the secretary of state, former secretary of state met with literally thousands, tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of individuals. >> dickerson: we'll have to leave it there, donna. thanks so much for being with us. us. we'll be back in one minute.

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is. >> dickerson: joining us now is jay on chaffetz. nothing to see, there's no there there that dnc chair, what's your reaction? >> well, they also said there's smoke and no fire but my 8:00 league said, there's a fire, in fact it was arson. i think the public has the right to know, we certainly have been asking for these documents since 2012, if hillary clinton wants to come clean, she hasn't yet, most everything she said about this turned out to be a lie. she should provide her calendar, associated press has been fighting for years in the courts just to get her calendar she has more than one. but get her calendar out there. she said at press conference, i think fbi should provide the congress, consequently the public unclassified version that can be released. >> dickerson: one of the things we're trying to do here figure out whether there was something truly wrong that was done here

in the relationship with the state department and clinton foundation for whether this is just kind of way things are done in washington, people give lot of money, get phone called returned faster, get e-mails returned. so you've said that it smells like pay to play in this relationship between clinton foundation donors and state department. what evidence do you have of that? >> look at the associated press report that came out for nearly majority of the people who have made these major -- made these major donations got a meeting, if you look at the interaction between foundation and those that worked at the state department, at one point they said, our boss. supposed to be a bright clear line, i think one of the questions the media needs to ask hillary clinton, was her interaction and senior staff, was there interaction with the foundation, that was a official business? because they say that sometimes it was or was that just a private something. where are all those e-mails, the communications. because right now it's still

years after the fact that we have sent subpoenas, sent letters of preservation, requests for information, and still the state department and hillary clinton we get these new revelations almost weekly that there are thousands of new things that we haven't yet seen. >> dickerson: the clinton campaign says that ap report didn't take into account all the meetings she had. there's no doubt they took place. i guess the question that was to pay to play, don't you have to show that the state department did something that there was some action was taken as a result of requests by somebody who gave a lot of money, in this case, what in your mind is the action that was taken, what policy was changed or what action should people focus on when they're looking at these? >> that's why we want to see her calendars, see the rest of the e-mails, remember, there's 14,000 e-mails, we have not yet seen that are new. evidently new e-mails. also want to know about the

destruction of these documents. these are federal records. this is not her e-mails. and she's the one that set this up, the inspector general tried to interview hillary clinton, she said she wants to be open and transparent but prefused to meet with the inspector general. then you have the fbi director said they never looked at her testimony before congress and her interaction with congress. we're requesting documents, federal records, those are destroyed. we have some equities in things we want answer to. >> dickerson: two baskets, the clinton foundation and the e-mails which were on her private server that was at her home in her system she set up. you have said that she committed perjury in testimony in front of your committee, what are you asking the fbi to do, they have already said that they didn't see a willful deletion on her part, they said that in terms of classified material that she didn't know because it wasn't marked classified, haven't they answered some of the questions you're raising? >> to the contrary, the fbi director said that known or

should have known that the information was classified. remember, the state department, there are two different systems. one system is the classified system. and one of the key concerns we have is, how did the information on those classified servers get over on to the ones that were not classified? from our vantage point it's one of the largest breaches of security in the history of the state department. we got to make sure that people aren't just walking out the door with literally hundreds if not thousands of classified -- bits of information that then make their way into a nonsecure setting. and when hillary clinton herself allows people without the proper security clearance to have access to that information, again, that is a self inflicted breach that she put upon the country to put people's lives in jeopardy. >> dickerson: on that question, which is the lawyer she hired to delete e-mails from her private server are you saying the fbi dropped the ball? surely they were aware that the lawyers were looking at the information, they dropped the ball in their investigation? >> no, the director said he was deeply concerned about this. also later offered a bit of

clarification to say, some of the attorneys have some of the clearances but not just her attorneys there are i.t. professionals that she engaged in networks who had no security clearance. and yet when the fbi provides us those documents in a secure -- in this skiff, so-called skiff in secure place they redact those names. we want to know who those people are. they don't have the proper security clearance they gave them access to classified information. >> dickerson: hanks so much for being with us we'll be back in a moment. pear? it's what the national debt could do to our economy. if we don't solve our debt problem 19 trillion and growing money for programs like education will shrink. in just 8 years, interest on the debt will be our third largest federal program. bad news for small businesses. the good news? there's still time for a solution. ask the candidates for a plan to secure our future.

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undocumented workers? >> well, i think basically what he is saying is, there's no path to citizenship. there's no voting, unless you go through the same process that anybody else goes through. he's saying that he clearly wants to secure the border, e-verify in place, tend to the visa situation. do all those things, built he's saying, let's apply the law, the constitution, these things have not been tried by democrats or republicans. then let's see what's left over and what's left over after that is something that should be dealt with in a reasonable, compassionate and fairway. i don't think that's a big departure. >> dr. carson we'll hold off just a moment we'll be back with more from you, have to take a commercial break here. stay with us.

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including headaches, seizures, confusion and vision problems these may be signs of a rare, potentially fatal brain condition. some serious allergic reactions can occur. do not take stelara® if you are allergic to stelara® or any of its ingredients. most people using stelara® saw 75% clearer skin and the majority were rated as cleared or minimal at 12 weeks. be the you who talks to your dermatologist about stelara®. >> dickerson: some of our cbs stations are leaving us now but for most of you we'll be right back. with a lot more "face the nation." stay with us.

>> dickerson: welcome back. we're back with more this former president vat candidate and current donald trump supporter dr. ben carson. dr. carson pick up where we left off on the question of immigration. you said donald trump wants to enforce the laws. so that logically leads to conclusion that 11 million people who are in the country illegally enforcing the laws would mean getting them out. but when you press the campaign on that, that's what has to be worked out which a lot of people who have been in this -- paid attention to this issue for awhile here as code. that's building a back door to ultimately not deport the 11 million who are in america and are undocumented. >> it's not really code. it's using our heads. using common sense. we have laws and regulations for a reason. we don't really know how they

work because we simply haven't been applying them, that's both democrats and republicans. it's very much like your home. because somebody wants to come to your home, do you let them in? no, you want to know who they are. you want to know who -- if they are your son or daughter's friend, you say, make sure that you understand who this person is. it's the same thing that we want to do now we want to protect the american people. particularly at a time when we know that there are people out there who want to do harm to us. this is just common sense. >> dickerson: so i guess the last question, do you have any doubt that donald trump will begin once he becomes president, deporting the 11 million who are in america and are undocumented? >> well, certainly the individuals who have committed crimes, who keep coming back and who ice demands be let loose into our communities, those people will no longer be bothe bothering americans.

we will not have sanctuary cities. we will begin to do things that make sense. this should be something that appeals to all americans, as far as i'm concerned it should not be a partisan issue. we're talking about our safety and our security for ourselves and for our progeny. >> dickerson: donald trump had harsh words for hillary clinton he called her a bigot you suggest he not use that word, why? >> well, one of the left wing publications, i was asked about that i said, you know, the use of terminology, racist, bigots all these kind of things are detracting from the real things that we need to be talking about. of course they just say, carson says, trump shouldn't use this word. but, you know, i think people are getting sophisticated enough to read through the lines now and understand that issues that face america are gigantic. and they're going to have a big impact.

this election is so vitally important. because it's two completely different philosophies. one says, let's take the pie and redivide it equitably redistribute, let's make lots of pies, grow this thing tremendously. these are very different philosophies. and there are those who don't want to talk about the issues, they want to pick on these little words that people say so we can divert attention away. let's talk about the issues, this is vitally important and everybody should be proud of their position, don't try to hide your positions and deceive people and to thinking something else. >> dickerson: fair enough. but the word bigot means something very spes i have particular people. and it goes to what the candidates, head of the democratic party has in her heart if she is bigot at heart anything she says about those issues is discounted. so this isn't just a kind of side word this goes to the heart of her motivations about a whole set of policies that he's

saying. is it wise to just pass it by when this is -- charge being made against her? >> well, it's not wise to engage in a name calling at all. hillary clinton is calling him a racist trying to associate him with the klu klux klan, where did the ku klux klan came from, it came from the democratic party. who is the party of slavery, party of jim crow and discrimination, what was the party that pushed through the the civil rights legislation. and voting rights. that was the republicans. they were established as abolitionist party, democrats come along saying, yeah, i know, but it all switched. and republicans became democrats what a total lie. there's no evidence of that whatsoever. a small group of people. still going on, still manipulating, still using, still lying. do we want to talk about that, yes, we do want to talk about it to some degree. but we really need to talk about the issues that affect the quality of life of our children.

that is so important. 20 trillion dollars in debt, what is that going to do to them? why don't we talk about these things. >> dickerson: let me ask you about the pitch that donald trump made to the african american community in his speech, this is donald trump saying, what do you have to lose by trying something new like donald trump. you live in poverty, your schools are no good, you have no jobs, 58% of your youth sun employed. what the hell do you have to use. what do you make -- what do you think that have pitch how it will be received? >> well, again, you want to listen to what is being said, he's talking about progressive movement and they're ruling and major cities of our nation. what has that led to in the last 30, 40, 50 years, more poverty, more incarceration, broken homes out of wedlock births, high school dropouts. how is that a success? why do we want to continue that. we need to look at something else and you're going to hear

coming from the republicans, which i admit, they have been late to the game, we should have been into this a long time ago because the policies that have been espoused or good policies but they have not been expressed in a way that people are going to is understand or listen to them. that's why he's being attacked because you're not supposed to attack the sacred cow this is our -- these are our people, these are our voting block, don't you dare come in here. a lot of people in the black community are very, very intelligent they're going to be listening very carefully to what is being said by both sides and they're going to be making in diligent decisions. >> dickerson: last question based on medical expertise you mentioned they should release medical records, as a doctor, what do you make of some people and other doctors diagnosing candidates, kind of on television and from the sidelines? is that something that should be done? >> well, of course not.

we like to use real data. but i think one of the ways to eliminate that kind of speculation is for both candidates to release their medical records. as people get older, a lot of things begin to go wrong with their bodies. and i think the american people have a right to know, because we're dealing with two older candidates what their health status is because it's a very intense job, it's not eight hours a day, it's 24-7 with constant stress. we need to know that we have a leader who can withstand that. >> dickerson: made that case privately to mr. trump who you're in communication with? >> i have talked to him about the health records and health concerns this week. i think he's perfectly willing to release that information as long as she releases her's as well. >> dickerson: dr. ben carson thanks for being with us we'll be right back. hey, it's the ph! there's a more enjoyable way to get your fiber. try these delicious phillips' fiber good gummies,

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the harder jobs in journalism right now because he has to cover moment to moment donald trump's rhetorical and possible policy shifts on immigration. it's very hard to keep up. it really is. obviously he was trying to pivot away from a very hard position, he understands that he has a floor, he understands that he has a ceiling, the floor, his core supporters want to hear that tough rhetoric but he knows that he's not punching through a ceiling unless he softens, this whole week has been this vertigo inducing kind of rhetorical spinning, trying to please all camps what he's doing is risk can, alienating the base without punching through the ceiling convincing people that he's softening as the word goes. >> dickerson: ceiling that jeffrey is talking about this notion that there are republican women voters, college educated voters who are looking for some proof, they don't like hillary clinton so they're going to grab anything they can but some proof that donald trump is softening that he's listening to advice. is this a gambit towards that group? >> definitely, the person who

would know that is kellyanne conway she certainly somebody who helped close that women's gap for republicans for 20 years. what's interesting when you close the hispanic gap, is start to sound more inclusive instead of the white hot rhetoric, but more inclusive, you actually close the women's gap as well. and that's where they are aiming, not so much communities of color i think as white independents. >> dickerson: sit working based on your reporting? >> speaking of white women this week at a rally in florida, it was working, because the argument -- trump supporters to begin with they made clear as long as the wall is untouched, as long as it's still built basically, we have no problem with him modulating here on everything else. so if he made no news on the wall, still in the system that mexico would pay for it to them they were fine with that. maybe 2% disapproval rating with hispanics not going anywhere there. jeffrey says it's a hard job,

reminded me this week of covering jeb bush and marco rubio a year ago while immigration policy was pretty clear, they would suddenly modulate every once in awhile say something slightly different you have to be attuned to that. i think that folks covering trump closely got a taste this week. but at the end of the week he's back to where he was. nothing changed i think, leslie is right, may have confused things enough for some voters who were step particular call at least he was talking about when in reality nothing will change. >> we ex select the shilly-shally but donald trump built his brand on it, on immigration, his central signature issue. >> correct. i would say this week has been a very muddled week for whatever that immigration message s. his brand has been one of decisiveness, it will be one of -- deportation, explicitly talked about deportation force several months ago. when you asked kellyanne or name himself have to wait and see now you do wonder, is this modulated

softened tone going to win him any new supporters, but will it alienate the base, people who brought him here. >> there's a -- you can ask marco rubio or john mccain what happens when you shift on immigration, because among hardliners there's no going back. there's two key words, there's amnesty and the wall. on those areas, hardliners never move but losing issue for republicans, it is not possible to build wall across u.s.-mexico border, not going to happen. you have the rio grand river, a flood plain just not feasible. i think the resalt, somewhere in the middle they have to find approach that works. >> dickerson: where are we in -- last week donald trump expressed regret, leslie talked about the talent for helping candidates pitch to different constituencies, where are we in the donald trump evolution, is this a new version of donald trump, when he called hillary clinton a bigot that got some

people concerned that he was going back to the old trump, where do things stand? >> i don't see any real discernible movement towards a warmer, fuzzier trump when he says things like that, when he fires off these tweets about dwyane wade's cousin, a few hours later expressing condolences, when he continues to talk about -- or his surrogates talk about deportation force or illegals or the hispanics, none of that works. none of it will work. and voters i talk to, the experts that look at this say, like this is -- going to be transactional like that may just make it worse for him in any attempt toe try to be unifying figure. if it gives some comfort to skeptical republicans, fine. but they should have been expressing that concern a year ago. this has been baked for awhile. >> it is late to be -- try the unifying figure thing, i would say.

it's not his nature. i think one thing, again, what was one of his biggest assets was the decisiveness, this is a sort of confused version where, okay, where does he stand after all? people talk about the bigot, he called hillary clinton a bigot this came after a pretty blistering speech that hillary clinton gave on which was striking one, it was not actually a name calling speech it was using his own words, his own policies, own history, pretty cohesively against him. and what was striking about the reaction, other than donald trump staying she's a bigot, there was really -- unless i missed it not lot of republican leaders, traditional republicans who rise to his defense which i think spoke volumes, maybe more so than whatever came out of his -- >> the purpose that have, one of the purposes that have speech was to force him to revert back to his usual self which is, he has said, i will attack, they

predicted clinton campaign knew that he would say something, bigot in this case, that again trying to bring him back to what they think of as his true nature where his moving, i think, again, on immigration and other issues. confrontational, the harsh language how much they try to muddy it up this week, we're back to where we were. >> dickerson: also hillary clinton trying to change the top frick her own bad news which we'll switch to in a moment, leslie let me ask you what hillary clinton tried to do, cut off republicans from trump saying, he has this relationship to this nationalist, racist group but that's not republicans. do you think that will be successful, she's defending the party against donald trump. does hillary clinton have any standing to do that? >> a lot of republicans try to do the same thing earlier in the primary. finally came out if we go back to earlier this year is donald trump disavowed, denounced any of these organizations, these extremists who supported his campaign distance himself to the best of his ability to be do it

quickly, no. waited too too long, in the media cycle especially in iowa where accusations of robo calls. that were impacting the caucus caucuses. i don't think it's new, i don't think it's particularly effective because on that particular issue, people made up their mind. now they're trying to decide, if it's the lesser of two evils so to speak, really not tone at this point. >> i would say -- sorry. >> i would just -- to me when she talks like that what's less about winning the republican voters it's about sort of reminding republican law makers that when you get back to town, should i be president, i still want to work with you. i understand the difference between you, paul ryan and mitch mcconnell than you donald trump. that if i'm going to be successful president i'm go to need to find way to work with you on something, that to me just code. sort of saying to them, i see the difference. >> although i do think it is targeted directly at republican voters particularly suburbs of cleaved, denver, so forth. if you look at the numbers since

the conventions, her numbers -- she's probably gained eight or nine points from the deficit she was coming in. she's are republican voters, the democratic convention was geared very, very explicitly, very clearly i think at republicans, mainstream republicans, jeb bush, marco rubio, what have you. it's been very auto incometive and going to continue. >> dickerson: they see him trying to pivot saying you can't visit '. >> i i don't think that it's only directed at republicans. this is to get out to vote attempt by hillary clinton to remind hispanics, blacks, asians, everyone, that these are the people he's associated with. very important to add to mobilize those numbers, that's how you do it. i don't think it's ineffective at all. it's very effective to remind people that david duke likes donald trump. that -- >> same kind of argument made in 2008 when people were talking about the alignments and associations that barack obama had through history of his grass roots campaigning. really, it's going -- people

have such a baked in idea, especially republicans when it comes to hillary clinton. for many republicans never thought they see position of voting for hillary clinton, not going to be moved on this identity politics as much as who is going to be changing the direction. >> dickerson: we'll be talk talk about hillary clinton's news this week. stay with us we'll be back in a moment. ,,,,,,,,,,,,

>> dickerson: we're back with more from our politics panel. mark, i'll start with you, hillary clinton this week, two disclosures two, developments. one set of e-mails that showed a cozy relationship between staffers of the clinton foundation and staffers at the state department. and 15,000 railroad so new e-mails that were found that weren't turned over from the home brew server. take either one of those you want and whether this is coming up periodically, one expect it will until. >> it is a dull ache for them. what's interesting about this week it links the two kind of big lurking issues. e-mail and the foundation. really sort of brought them together into the same conversation. this is a bad week for -- should have been bad week for the clinton campaign i think, again, the trump campaign muddled its

own advantage by talking about hillary clinton's health and what have you. but you do sort of wonder why the foundation at least, lot of people suggest, why not turn over the operations of the foundation going forward to say gates foundation or someone who knows how to do this, incorporate all the resources, it's complicated but it could foreclose a lot of these suspicions, it could be sort of decisive answer. and i think they're unwillingness to do this try to sort of litigate this maybe more than they need to, get to a kind of -- something between entitlement and maybe false confidence. >> dickerson: sheer what i wonder, about 30% of the people trust her, response from the clinton camp to these questions of this, these e-mails clearly show that when somebody from the clinton foundation sends an e-mail there's fussing around to try to help them out. now, maybe there's not a pay to play but lot of activity based on the fact that people have given a lot of money. the clinton campaign says, nobody got any meeting or anything because they gave

donations to that pass the smell test? >> there's a presumption of nefariousness on the part of the foundation and the clintons. in this particular case, look, i agree, that the foundation probably should have been, to borrow a phrase, walled off a while ago. that there should have been way to put that in trust. that said, this story, i think there's less than meets the eye. most of the people who we're talking about, there's a nobel prize winner, from bangladesh who got a meeting who would get a meeting with any secretary of state. whether are heads of state given money to the foundation who would get meeting with the secretary of state. the problem is, is that no one can prove that these people got anything out of these meetings. all that said, there's an appearance of coziness, i guess is the word that you're using. >> dickerson: if you don't admit a little cozy insurance, donna brazile said, republicans see as nefariousness, the clinton

campaign barely saying there was a meeting, saying there's no relationship. don't they have to admit, yes, okay, you got e-mails got returned, but some people got a meeting, some people didn't and it's not as bad as you think. but they're not even saying that. >> what your definition of meeting is. this is clearly pay to play scheme. as much as republicans like to use it, there's so much smoke there that the bigger question is, isn't this part of the pall that surrounds the clintons, brings you book selling access to the lincoln bedroom. all the different things that come part of this package deal of bill and hillary clinton, i would say that the independence looking at possibly supporting hillary clinton are looking at this again saying, here we are on these corruption -- >> show me one thing that someone got from hillary clinton's state department because they happen to give money to the clinton foundation. >> the meetings. >> i'm waiting for actual evidence. >> dickerson: but your bar is

meeting -- there are lot of meet thanks happened -- >> had hundreds of meetings a week. >> e-mails between them that said this is a friend of ours maybe you can do this, then get a short but meeting nonetheless. yes, maybe the crown prince of saudi arabia would get the meeting anyway. you would think. these are -- there's e-mails -- >> part is very interesting part why donald trump is succeeding to the degree that tease succeeding. this is washington. people who know each other and are influential meet with other influential people that's human nature that's politics. this is what people outside of washington do find, this is not a clinton specific issue. it's an example. >> dickerson: we'll have to go. people write big checks get things that they want even if it's not the big casino they get what they want that's what makes people -- that's going to be it for us today thank to all of you for watching. we'll be back in a moment.

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>> dickerson: we'd like to close today by congratulating cbs "sunday morning" charles osgood who announced this morning he will retire from the broadcast next month after 22 years at the helm. the osgood file will go on, however, as he says, we'll keep seeing him on the radio for years to come. that's it for us today, thanks for watching. until next week for "face the nation" i'm john dickerson. captioning sponsored by cbs captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

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