that voters who supported you are wary about and on the lookout for, you mentioned climate change, and there is some reporting done by climate change news, they looked at what hillary clinton and how she has talked about energy issues and climb issues, and since her back and forth with you and the democratic nominating process, it seems that the phrase "climate change" according to this report has dropped out of her speeches. why do you suppose that is? >> well, i honestly don't know the answer to that, but what i can tell you is that recently scientists are telling us that the situation is even more dire than we had previously thought. in terms of donald trump, and i hope everybody understands it, despite what the entire scientific community is telling us about what a threat it is for this planet, climate change is, donald trump thinks it's a hoax. clinton does have a serious proposal to invest in

sustainable energy and in energy efficiency. i hope that secretary clinton will talk more about this issue, contrast her views with trump, because it is an enormously important issue. >> dickerson: i talk to some of these volters who are undecided. they say they don't like donald trump, but they don't think hillary clinton is going to be trustworthy, and so they say they're going to vote for either gary johnson or jill stein, and there is a poll that shows 44% of millennials, talking about them again, are voting for a third-party candidate. as an independent, why shouldn't they go vote for somebody who is close to what they believe if they don't like the two major party candidates? >> well, i will tell you why, and, look, i am the longest-serving independent in the history of congress. when i was younger, i ran on a third party here in the state of vermont. i got all of 1% in one election, so i'm not here to dispain, third-party candidates who historically have played a very, very important role in this country in raising issues.

and moving this country in certain directions. but i think right now given the crises that we face, a disappearing middle class, massive levels of income and wealth inequality, the issue of the increase in bigotry that we are seeing, climate change, the fact that so many young people are leaving schools deeply in debt, we have hundreds of thousands of bright young kids that can't even afford to go to college. i think the focus has got to be on understanding that this moment in history for a presidential election is not the time for a protest vote. it is the time to look at which candidate is going to work best for the middle class and working families. in terms of higher education, i worked with secretary clinton. she now has the proposal that says that for every family in this country of $125,000 or less, 8% -- 83% of our population, public colleges and universities will be tuition

free for those kids. that's a big deal. >> dickerson: one last question, senator. the "wall street journal" recently reported that senators like elizabeth warren were working on a list of names of people from places like morgan stanley and black rock that they would actively oppose if they were put into a clinton administration. will you join in that effort? >> absolutely. we certainly have seen under democratic and republican administrations what wall street c.e.o.s have done to our economy. we don't need more wall street c.e.o.s in any administration. we need people in the administration that will stand with working families and the middle class. andly do everything i can to see that those are the people appointed in a clinton administration. >> dickerson: all right. senator bernie sanders, thanks so much for being with us again. >> thank you, john. >> dickerson: and now we turn to cbs news director of elections anthony salvanto. welcome back. anthony, the polls are tightening. why are they tightening? >> the big picture is that big,

big lead we saw hillary clinton open up over the summer has now shrunk back to what is at best a narrow lead. you know, some of these states that i think clinton, we've seen those big leads come back, like colorado, it's really instructive. the biggest reason across all of it is enthusiasm from her voters. that's a little bit on the wane. but what ends up happening is you see key groups like you mentioned, those younger voters, they're not as excited, they're not as enthusiastic for her. they're moving into that undecided or won't vote car -- category or to third parties. she has to get that excitement back up. polls don't tell you about vote choice. they tell you about who is likely to show up. if they're not as likely to show up, numbers go down. >> dickerson: let's pause for a moment. we're going to be beneath a blizzard of polls between now and the end. how should people think about these kinds of movements? if people are moving away from hillary clinton, what happens to them? do they... are those people available for donald trump, or

how should people think about the movements in the polls? it's not just a person saying, i want trump or clinton, that's it? >> exactly. what everybody is going to talk about swing voters from here to election day, don't assume every moment, every movement in a poll is about a swing voter. what ends up happening is people will either become less enthusiastic about voting and then polls will sort of discount whether they're likely to show up, and then people sometimes park themselves in unsure for a while, especially if they're partisan, but then they come back, most of them to, their partisan choice. so you see that movement. it's not, especially this year, we see very, very few people actually going on. for clinton this week, trump this week, back to clinton, we're just not seeing a lot of that. >> dickerson: there is a whole garage full of people parking in unsure. let's go to the question of national versus state. so we get the national polls that say one thing and then some state polls that say another. how should people look through those? >> right. the poll watchers' guide to this

is first watch the states. obviously that's what matters. this is a state-by-state election, you have to win in the electoral college. what you also get out of states is much more detail about that voter turnout, because you can see particular groups, whether it's young voters or whether it's older voters, and national polls, that weather vane on top of the barn. you can see which way the wind is blowing, but what you really need is a much more detailed forecast, and that you get our of states. >> dickerson: so it's more important for purposes of a campaign that we know how african americans in say pennsylvania are going to behave than the general national picture about african-americans, right? >> exactly. and sometimes when you see movement in the national polls, the trouble is you don't know where it's coming from. so it might be coming from a key state like pennsylvania, but it could just as well be coming from that california or texas where we know what's going to happen anyway. >> dickerson: the clinton campaign is pushing the idea that donald trump is too risky to be president. you had interesting finding about risk and donald trump.

explain that. >> both candidates to some extent are described as risky among a number of other words voters use. trump is split. even his voters say he's risk kim well, that's not necessarily a bad thing for them. and the reason is they want change. they want change, political change and cultural change and economic change, so they're willing to tolerate some risk in order to get the change that they want. >> dickerson: what does battleground track irsay about what people are looking for in this debate that happens tomorrow night? >> represent, partisans are looking the see their candidate win. so there's already that large group that's locked in. they're going to think they're going to think no matter what. the other thing, remember, the economy. that's the number-one thing that voters say they're looking for, and you get this sense that, you know, especially given two candidates with high unfavorables, you know, the winner of this debate isn't going to be the one with the best zinger. it's the one that looks in that camera and can start to assuage some of that voter economy.

maybe even about the exan dates themselves. how much to debate matter in the end? >> some, not a lot. what we often see out of a debate is some movement like we describe, maybe some lack of enthusiasm, maybe a boost of enthusiasm. but then things seem to switch back a little bit. it's not as dramatic as you think. >> dickerson: all right, anthony, we'll look forward to having you back. and we'll be right back with man who knows a little something about presidential debates. stay with us. not a banner that goes on a wall. it's not something you do now and then. or when it's convenient. it's using state-of-the-art simulators to better prepare for any situation. it's giving offshore teams onshore support. and it's empowering anyone to stop a job if something doesn't seem right. at bp, safety is never being satisfied. and always working to be better.

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>> dickerson: and we're delightedded to be back with bob schieffer, who mod rated presidential debates in the last three election. bob, it's great to be here with you. i'm so happy you're here. okay. so you've done this before. and it would be about 24 hours before the debate. what would you be thinking if you were in this spot? >> i think i'd be under the bed, hoping they couldn't fight me. i tell you, john, people don't believe me sometimes when i say i don't get nervous on tv, but i've done it so long. it's second nature. but in 2004 when i did my first presidential debate, i was getting ready to go out on the stage, and i looked down and i was shaking like a leaf. i hadn't had stage fright i bet in 20 years, but this is unlike anything any of us involved in journalism have ever done, and when you think of all those people out there, i mean, you're talking about a super bowl sized crowd, and this one makes that a record. >> dickerson: as a

moderator, i mean, working it has become a full-time occupation. of course you'd be under the bed. everyone is coming to get you. >> my advice to the moderators is think of hit the way: no matter how mean they are, no matter what they're seeing about you on social media, everybody quarterback that loses today in the nfl, they're going to say worse things about him. so welcome to the nfl. this is just how it is. >> dickerson: how is it now. there's been a big question about fact checking and what the moderator's role should be in that. how do you see that question? >> well, and i've said and i've thought about this over the years, after doing these things, the first fact checkers have to be the candidates themselves. if one candidate makes a mistake, you want to give the other person a chance to call him out on that. if he or she doesn't, then the moderator steps in and sets the record straight. but if you don't give the candidates themselves that

opportunity, you're being unfair to both of them. >> dickerson: you have a theory that i love about letting the candidates talk. get out of the way. >> well, these debates are about more than just the issues, as it were. yes, issues are important. yes, party is important. but what these debates are about are who are these people. do they have the right stuff? do they have the grace under pressure? this is a pretty tough job no matter what anybody says. it's a pretty tough job. and i think the role of the moderator is to give people a more complete picture if you can of who these two people actually. are. >> dickerson: what do you make of the strategies? do you want to talk about what what these two are going to do? i've asked the candidate surrogates about it a lot. what do you think? >> i think they're too too much. let's think about this, hillary clinton's campaign is talking

about, you know, she's going to try to come up with these one-liners. she's going to try to throw him off. well, if that is a strategy, fine, it's a good strategy. why would you tell somebody about it? it's like saying, i'm going to tell a joke, here's the punch line, now here's the joke. you're not going to get much of a laugh if that's your strategy in telling jokes. i think they should be quiet. i think too many times it's these advisers that are trying to show people in the media how smart they are. they ought to let the candidate be the one people are focusing on. i want to say one other thing, john, this idea of putting hecklers in the audience, i mean, hillary clinton talking about putting mark cuban in the audience, he's a guy who has been very critical of trump, to try to throw him off, and then, of course, comes back and says, i'm going to invite jennifer flowers, bill clinton's old girlfriend, i'm really pleased to know that the trump campaign

this morning said gennifer flowers will not be there. those kinds of things are beneath the dignity of the office that these two people are running for. i think they both would do well to think about that. >> dickerson: bob, i'm going to end it there. any other question wouldn't be any good after that. >> thank you for having me, john. really enjoyed it. >> dickerson: and we'll be back. >> two candidates, one goal: your vote. the first presidential debate, a cbs news prime time special, tomorrow on cbs.

>> dickerson: joining us now are susan cage, washington bureau chief of "usa today" and ed o'keefe of the "washington post." let's before we dive into the debate, susan, let's set the table for everybody. where is this campaign right now as we speak? >> when you look at all those polls, you don't want to be transfixed. you want the look at the trend. the trend is for a tighter race both nationally and in some of these swing states, and it's in part because trump has succeeded to a remarkable degree in consolidating the support of republicans, as we saw with one of his fiercest rival, texas senator ted cruz, while hillary clinton is struggling to get the enthusiasm of the voters who elected barack obama twice, are not quite as enthusiastic about

her. >> dickerson: you feel that way? >> yeah, the consolidation trump has seen is remarkable and a testament to the fact that he has been much more disciplined in the last few weeks. i think the steps taken by speaker ryan, we will abandon you if you don't shape up were heard. he's certainly not done or said anything terribly new that's controversial. a lot of what we've heard has been heard before, and republicans seem to be okay with that. i thought the seven-point explanation from senator cruz as to why he wants to support him speaks to what a lot of republicans feel at this point. while they may not like him, they're more concerned about making sure conservatives serve on the supreme court, that the future of obamacare is determined by republicans and not by democrats, and that somebody new step in to deal with all the problems around the world. and, you know, for a lot of republicans at this point, he's tolerable enough, and they're willing to back him. >> dickerson: ted cruz's decision to get on board with the republican nominee, reince

priebus on this show last week threw a little brushback pitch to republicans saying, if you don't supported the nominee now, whether that means ted cruz, he's thinking about his future, to. >> i think mike mccall, the texas congressman and chairman of the homeland security committee, who has been talking about how terrible it is that ted cruz hasn't endorsed donald trump and who might be interested in changing him in a republican primary in 2018, that might have had something to do with it. ted cruz endorsed donald trump, but he was at an event yesterday and refused to answer whether donald trump was fit to be president. >> dickerson: that's right. speaking of fitness to be president, that's his big hurdle in the debate. >> it is. if you look at the numbers, you know, there's less of an expectation that he will emerge victorious as there is for hillary clinton, which brings great concern to the brooklyn headquarters of the clinton campaign because they're trying to keep the goalposts the same distance apart, and the expectations about equal. there's big concern that if she

is seen as having a to perform much better and she doesn't, then he's going to be seen as having won this thing. that's why you saw senator kaine and you've seen so many of her other surrogates and top aides saying, you know, remember, this guy is a liar. he has lied repeatedly, and if you in the press don't call him out for it, it's an unfair advantage to him and it's going to hurt her chances. i think that's pretty remarkable that they're really quite aggressively trying to go after that and remind people ahead of this that he's been known to tell tall tales and they expect him to do it again tomorrow night. >> dickerson: or if he doesn't do it on debate night, to remind people that he has this other part of his character and not let him see the man on the stage as the only person as part of their strategy. susan, what do you think of what hillary clinton has to do, pekka rinnetations if you look at the history of debate. they're so much apart of while a line wins or a person is declared the winner. it almost has nothing to do with what happens on stage and everything is part of the narrative beforehand. >> there is talk that hillary clinton needs to show she's

likable. i'm not sure that's your biggest challenge. i think her biggest challenge is to show he's an agent of change in an election where people really want some change. i don't think people think donald trump is doing better because people like him so much. i think they believe in the things they worry about in this country that he is likely to shake things up and if you're concerned that things are heading in the wrong direction, that might be enough to get you to slip in. i think her challenge is to show that while she's very supportive of barack obama and he's a big supporter of her, that she recognizes there are problems in this country that need maybe fresh approaches and a lot of energy in addressing. >> dickerson: it does seem that both the clinton campaign and certainly some people who are advisers or who would like to be listened to are saying, you know, what susan is saying, people need a reason to vote for you, not so much to be terrified about donald trump, which is difficult, because of course, if on the one hand you're trying to remind voters about another donald trump, difference from

the one who might appear on the debate stage, as the same time you want to show that he's got solution, too, that's a tricky thing to pull off in 90-second answers under the hot lights. >> it is when you will expect that he will try to throw back at her repeatedly concerns about her use of e-mail, this is a debate that's supposed to be about security and foreign policy. she was involved in that for four years. one of his most valid lines is you were involved in crafting the obama straight's foreign policy, how do you respond to what's going on? undoubtedly she'll have to address that as well, so it should prove difficult. i just wonder throughout all these conversations, how big an audience will we see? the number to beat is 115 million in change for super bowl 49. i'm dubious that we'll see more than that given how displeased americans are by this, that they'll all sit there and want to put up with it for 90 minutes, if they do, incredible that they are willing and eager to see it.

and what i find most interesting, we have a poll out this morning, only about 17% of registered voters say this thing could change their mind. and of that, 6% say it actually could play a very big role in changing their mind some in reality, even if 100 million people show up, you're only looking at a few thousand people who could be persuaded by this spectacle. >> dickerson: we found that basically people deep in -- deepen their strengths for a candidate, whichever one they supported coming into it. let's talk about the way debates happen in our last minute or so. there's a lot of social media chatter that happens. and in an analysis of the last campaign, there were some reporters on twitter who basically determined the debate in the first 15 minutes. the candidates are preparing for that. >> yeah. the other thing is those of us who have print deadlines, a vanishing breed, have deadlines. so we're forced to pay attention to those opening minutes, the first exchange or two in writing our stories. it matters in the debate, as

well, if holding people. this will be analyzed and overanalyzed. there will be some 90-second exchange that will be played over and over again. also what we need to look at, not the 90 second exchange, but the 90-minute debate. the degree to which debates test presidential quality, you need to look at the stamina and thoughtfulness and the ability to deal with a lot of issues over 90 minutes, which is a listening period of time. >> dickerson: susan, ed, thank you. we'll be right back. bp gives its offshore teams 24/7 support from onshore experts, so we have extra sets of eyes on our wells every day. because safety is never being satisfied. and always working to be better.

>> dickerson: as we say good-bye today, we want to wish a fond farewell and godspeed to our friends charles os good and say hello to jane pauley, the new anchor of "sunday morning." we won't be here next week. the nfl will be. we'll see you in two weeks on

the morning of the second debate. >> "60 minutes" got a wear look at america's nuclear weapon, but it's what we learned about russia's threat that made it a story for our season pry. tonigh,,

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