>> dickerson: welcome back to "face the nation." i'm john dickerson. president-elect donald trump is looking for a simple plan for defeating isis within his first 30 days of taking office but the violent ideology continues to spread. joining us is graeme wood author of "the way of the strangers." you spent a lot of time with recruiters, sympathizers and supporters of the islamic state. what have you found? >> they're idealist. i spent time going to their club meetings, talking to them over coffee, even playing soccer with them and first they're true

believers and they have a warped rationality that feeds a belief in a utopian ideal and that tends to be an evil one but to understand them we need to figure out what it means for them to have come to that conclusion. >> dickerson: what is it like playing and you're right but playing soccer and having coffee with a person that by all exterior standards looks like a normal person but has the ideology that is so vicious and evil. >> they thought it would be permissible to cut my throat or standing anyone near us because we were infidel countries like australia, norway, the u.k. it's disarming to find you're with someone saying they can kill you but in the end it's fascinating. they're human people and people that like to read and serious

about their religion and eager to explain where they got all that and to tell me what the prophecy said andy -- and why i should believe them too. >> dickerson: when you say cutting your throat it's not an idle thing. >> they're not kidding and in many cases they have acted on it not necessarily by killing someone by in one case trying to take a boat to islamic state territory and now being in jail because of it. >> dickerson: what's the biggest misconce people have about the islamic state? >> people misunderstand about foreign fighters in particular the range of motivations and backgrounds these people come from. they're missing something in their lives. there's a meaning they lack and i think people often think that meaning or feeling of lack is because they come from positions of poverty or they feel rejected

in their home society. often it's because they come from conditions of abundance. they're from rich families in some cases and they find that is not enough to give them meaning. they're looking for something more. often it's not poverty but wealth that sends people in search of that terrible goal. >> dickerson: how does the united states combat that ideology? there's the battlefield but is there a lesson in how to combat it? >> there's certain things the president-elect has nto know an the next stem is -- step is to understand what motivates them and it's a pathology within the hearts and souls of individual people who are americans, british, australian and it's not

just going syria and stopping there. it's a problem within people's souls and that makes it much more difficult to solve. >> dickerson: dr. kissinger in an interview he did with jeffery goldberg of "the atlantic" said he thought isis may challenge the new president and hope for an overreaction. what is your thought? >> that's correct. in some ways i think they're operating at 100%. if they can act they will. they tell people don't delay just attack as it is right now wherever you are. it's important to realize when they attack it may not be a challenge within the borders of the united states. there's allies that donald trump has said he's looking forward to working with like egypt who have an isis insurgency within their own borders and overreaction can come also in egypt not just through policies of trump administration.

>> dickerson: what's the benefit of overreaction for isis? >> they've been saying about the trump presidency in particular it demonstrates muslims cannot have a home in the west. they must move to an islamic country. if they can see anything they can milk for propaganda purpose they'll feature that front and center. >> dickerson: 30 seconds left. michael flynn told al jazeera when you drop a drone you'll cause for damage than good. is that propaganda? >> there are some people for whom there is no solution other than dropping a bomb on them but it is an ideology people share and my book shares and exists in countries around the world and analyst hearts of people and drones aren't going to solve that. >> dickerson: graeme wood, thank you so much. we'll be right back with a look at president obama's legacy. stay with us. i got this.

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brilinta may cause bruising or bleeding more easily, or serious, sometimes fatal bleeding. don't take brilinta if you have bleeding, like stomach ulcers, a history of bleeding in the brain, or severe liver problems. tell your doctor about bleeding, new or unexpected shortness of breath, any planned surgery, and all medicines you take. >>talk to your doctor about brilinta. i'm doing all i can. that includes brilinta. if you can't afford your medication, astra zeneca may be able to help. >> on friday president obama gave his last news conference and reflected about his time in office. >> i always feel responsible. i felt responsible when kids were being shot by snipers. i felt responsible when millions of people had been displaced. there's places around the world where horrible things are happening and because of my

office -- >> dickerson: he also went on to say i can say with confidence i can show you what works and where we were in 2008 and where we are now and you can't argue we're not better off. i'm here with ta-nehisi coates who has a piece in "the atlantic" next month called "my president was black." he's saying here's what i've done. does he face a different standard as an african american president. >> i would say through his eight years he was aware and people around him were very aware. if you look at the way he went about his campaign he's very conscious of it but also uniquely situated in a someone

else may not have. >> you said he walked on ice and never fell. what's that mean? >> i can't take credit. that's run dmc. >> dickerson: but out put it in that context. >> i did. i felt like the whole challenge of governing a country and dealing with the majority white population and thus being the representative of that population at the same time having your roots in a community which to put it mildly for long periods of its history had not been a ben fiseficiary of the py of the country is difficult spot to be in to be with and without at the same time. i don't know we've appreciated how difficult that was. i think as historians will go back over the period they'll begin to see it >> dickerson: you trace his unique place within that community you said he said

something virtually no black person can that every president must, i believe you. what gave him the ability to say that? >> the president is unique. it's not just because he's biracial he had the combination but grew up far from the fulcrum and had a loving family his mom and grandparents who saw no conflict and affirming the fact he was black. he said his mom felt black people were cool and you can grimace at that or laugh but it's better than the alternatives and what he had was a community of white people that were close to him who loved him. as i said in the piece he saw the best of white american in the most intimate way possible

and thus was able to communicate a trust i think african americans were raised as i was and his wife have a much more difficult time demonstrating. >> dickerson: you covered him over eight years and he also wrote about the topic himself in his own book. what's your sense of his arc, his evolution on the question. he wrote a whole book praise before he was ever a politician. what's your sense of how -- if he were to write his book about the eight years what's the journey? >> i don't know he's changed. it's the first time you've raised it i've thought about it but i think the book is optimistic. the book does have this kind of measured tone that the president always takes. i don't mean in a divisive way but it's not a strident book. i think he is who he is. i don't know that he's changed much since that time.

he did say to me he was shocked by the political opposition he faced when he came into power. does that alter any of his basic sense of american institutions or the american people? i don't think it did. >> dickerson: i was struck in his press conference he went back to hope and going back to what he said in a. -- a speech. you have the president saying that and michelle obama talking about not having hope and hope was at the center of the campaign. what do you make of that and the question of hope and he's still hopeful. is it necessary for politics -- >> yes, i think it was necessary for him and to break it up a little bit. the point you just made go back to the question you asked me about what was different and unique. i don't know, for instance the president would say as the first

lady says we're feeling what it's like and putting a spin on that and it could be as president. as a believer of american institutions. he doesn't believe it's his role to speak in that sort of fashion. part is there's something within him that angles him in that deeply optimistic way but at the same time he believes that's what the role requires so it's not much of an act for him either. >> dickerson: why do you think he wanted to talk to you at such length? to be fair -- i understand, does he feel he was misunderstand in the african american community and trying to make a case? >> no, if you said i've written things that are critical of the president and if you took the president's position and i've not been under illusion if you take our positions and polled the african american community i

think he'd be 20/80 in his favor. he's popular among african americans. to be honest the whole time i was going through it i don't know why -- he could have picked somebody more in agreement with him and to be honest with you i think people were on his team felt that way. >> dickerson: maybe that's why he picked you because and where did you start when the conversation start and is it where you ended up and if not what did you pick up along the way? >> i was always amazed even when i was critical of him and the piece i wrote in 2012 he was the first -- not only the first african american president but the first president who could credibly teach a course in an

african american department and i wrote several pieces and he has an active mind you can see at work. it's difficult to tell when you write from a distance which is most my stuff until recently is whether it's sincere or an act and still maintaining the critiques i've had it's deeply sincere. he is who he is. and i had to come to appreciate that someone with my particular politics and critique of the country would probably not be president and i don't mean me, i mean somebody win -- with that question so it left you with the question do you want an african american president. >> dickerson: ta-nehisi coates thank you for being here. >> thank you for having me. >> dickerson: an interesting piece. thank you.

we appreciate and we'll be right back with our panel. ,,,,,,,,

>> dickerson: and we're back with susan page and ron

brownstein. susan, i want to start with you. russia, election, donald trump. kellyanne conway still seems to be defending the position donald trump doesn't believe russia was involved at all. what do you make of this story? >> i think the president-elect seems to be taking the attitude it's an assault on his legitimacy on his election and pushing back hard. i don't think there's any question he'll win the electoral college tomorrow and be inaugurated january 20 but that's the only reason i can think of for his stance on the conclusions of the intelligence community that russian hacked with the idea of affecting the election. maybe not every official endorses the idea it elect donald trump but there's an emerging consensus that's the case. >> the other reason is he want

to reset relations with russia and acknowledging this which is more difficult to acknowledge and they insinuated the president engineered the hack which is not true. i think it makes it more difficult to move policy in the direction he want it move and president obama has taken the high road as has donald trump. they've avoided criticizing each other and but there's incentive for president obama to put out as much as information as he can to create facts on the ground the next president will have to deal with. >> dickerson: i couldn't make sense of their comment that president obama was reacting due to political pressure. do you think donald trump will send a tweet out saying the

russians hacked? >> i don't know. there's been less difference between donald trump candidate and donald trump president-elect than you might have expected. the thank you tour. the themes of that were so strikingly similar to him as candidate still aimed at the 46% that elected him. if you look at the polling we've had, a variety of polls, puge gallop and he's not getting beyond that for an incoming president. he's still talking to his electorate. you would think he would because at some point it behooves to you acknowledge reality but i wouldn't guarantee it. >> dickerson: six in ten said tear not proud of the president and he really hasn't done anything -- he's done the

victory tour and somymbolic this but not to get to the unity he wants. >> the majority of americans did not vote for him and hillary clinton won a clear victory in the popular vote but that's not what counts when it comes to being president and this is the period period under his cone -- control to reach out to people who doesn't elect him. and the first poll after george w. bush 65% approval, 26% disapproval for george w. bush. now it's 48% and 48% and americans inclined as a people to say he's run the election we need to give him a chance. he's not benefiting in part because he's doing things like the victory tour which is designed to rally his own

troops. >> dickerson: do you remember the first speech george w. bush spoke from the well of the texas state legislature talking how he'd worked with democrats and the house speaker. a very different message. look at the cabinet appointees they're about unifying the republican coalition and while our focus has been russia you can point to the epa or energy we'll have plenty of domestic conflict after he takes office because they point to an aggressive move to undo much of president obama's agenda but and make structural changes in the programs that were not at the foreground of the presidential election. >> dickerson: let's turn for a moment to president obama's press conference. what did you make of it? he's still trying to create space and room and give the guy

a chance to president-elect trump. >> what role will president obama take after january 20. well he lead the opposition to donald trump's position to dismantle his legacy or step back as past presidents has done. one thing that struck me is how defensive he was whether he should have done more to publicize and push back on the russian hacks or defensive as you discussed on a panel whether he should have done more on syria and in his open statement saying i'm leaving the country in better shape than when i found it trying to make the case implicitly against donald trump's argument that everything is terrible. >> dickerson: and ron, what did you make of the president conference? he also talked about the democratic party. >> i feel it's consistently

going transition. he's both taking the high road and give donald trump a chance and laying the predicate to be more critical by being able to say, look, i gave him every chance and has said over and over again that maybe it will look different when your president and gives him more leeway to say if it doesn't look different there's a reason and don't forget in lima, peru he didn't rule out the possibility of being more visible. the democratic party faces an enormous challenge. they have a coalition that in some ways is a majority of the national level but it's not distributed in a way that allows them to easily control congress first of all and now win the electoral college. donald trump won the electoral college fair and square. democrats have to find a way to talk to more non-urban voters or

do they have to turn out the new coalition they have which is more diverse and white-collar. i have to think there's going to be a lot of democrats looking at figures if not literally like joe biden who can talk to voters beyond the circle. >> dickerson: from scranton, p.a. what is schumer's life going forward? >> to align with donald trump on stuff like infrastructure he might agree with and which by the way has the subsidiary effect of dividing republicans i think he likes that but clearly the leader of the opposition. democrats are divided and need to decide who they are and develop a new generation of leaders but their clear leader at this point is schuck schumer with the only -- chuck schumer with the only piece of leverage and that's the senate

filibuster. >> dickerson: susan page, ron brow brownstein. thank you. we'll be right back. yeah. ♪ everybody two seconds! ♪ "dear sebastian, after careful consideration of your application, it is with great pleasure that we offer our congratulations on your acceptance..." through the tuition assistance program, every day mcdonald's helps more people go to college. it's part of our commitment to being america's best first job. ♪ knowing where you stand. it's never been easier. except when it comes to your retirement plan. but at fidelity, we're making retirement planning clearer. and it all starts with getting your fidelity retirement score. in 60 seconds, you'll know where you stand. and together, we'll help you make decisions for your plan... to keep you on track. ♪ time to think of your future

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>> dickerson: that's it for us today. thanks for watching. next week we'll be here with stephen co stephen colbert. set your dvr. for "face the nation" i'm john dickerson.

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