many of us perhaps take it for granted: the catholic hello, and welcome to "mosaic." we are going to talk today about an institution that every catholic knows about, an institution so familiar that many of us take it for granted. the catholic parish. the parish has always been the center of life or the catholic layperson. or baptism is there, your funeral will be there and between these points there is participation in mass every sunday and an opportunity year after year of a richly textured multilayered life, combining the safety of sacramento, the

educational and communal. but, parish life is declining and parishes face challenges. our guest today is doctor melanie mori, a student of catholic health and institutions and co-author of the book "renewing catholic future." the parish's cultural home- based of american catholics and in the smallest and most basic units, the catholic culture is nurtured, sustained and transmitted. the ideology of american catholicism depends on a vibrant life. what are the challenges? what are the possibilities? please stay with us and after the short break join us talking about the catholic parish. ,,,,,, ,,

hello, welcome back. we have with us today doctor

melanie mori. welcome to you. a little bit about you. a bachelors degree from smith college, masters degree from boston college and harvard university and a doctorate from harvard. now, you have a particular expertise in catholic identity and culture. you have been a consultant to many catholic institutions and today at the archdiocese of san francisco you are director of the office of catholic identity, assessment and information. you published extensively including the book we are basing our discussion on today called "renewing bearish culture, building for a catholic -- renewing parish culture: building pray catholic future." and you have hands-on experience. let me state this, what is the anatomy of the parish? it has three groups. the people, largest group, the staff, smallest group, and then the priest. if you're lucky enough to have a priest. a priest is one or two or three. of these three groups i'd like

to have you address the challenges and opportunities for all three. if you could let's start with the largest, the people. the congregation, the people in the pews. we know there is a decline in parish participation. can you suggest what is keeping people away? >> well, one of the things about parishes is they have these internal parts and constituents. actors. but, they also live against the backdrop of a larger, wider culture. so, myself, i have been a parishioner where i grew up in salt lake city, on the east coast in florida, in seattle, here in san francisco. the backdrop in each of those places is somewhat different and it has an impact on the mindset, the attitudes, and the reality of those who are in catholic parishes. those two things will be playing against each other. people are largely familiar

with a lot of research being done in the united states, which is one of the most religious countries in the world. there is an increasing number of people who identify as none. people who have some kind of spiritual attitude, disposition, but, they don't identify with any religious traditions. so, that's one part. in a place like san francisco, one of the things that is also interesting is like many places, the united states. there is a lot of demographic change. there is something this past weekend in the new york times about the fact that there is a crisis of children in san francisco. unlike most cities, there are only 13% of the population is under the age of 18. >> wow. >> so, if there are fewer young

people, and, many more of those identifying as none, and, less and less involvement of young people and parishes, you have to begin to ask the question, what about the future? where are we going? is there a succession plan for those of us who are much older and in many ways sustaining parish life here in this archdiocese? >> people are out of the habit of going to their parish? let's say there is not a younger cohort visibly coming up. what about the older adult catholics? have they tapered off in their observance in some way as well? >> to some extent. one of the things that has happened in american life is, in the 1800s, as an immigrant population, some immigrants came, many of them were catholic. irish, german, italian.

identified with their parish. catholics ran a parallel culture in the united states. we have our own insurance companies. we had our own youth organizations. we have everything that the secular society had, we replicated within catholic life. and so, it is the great meeting place that kept this community tightly together. in american culture today, i think it's pretty obvious that with families, the great unifier is a sports. so much of their weekends are spent going from this soccer game to that hockey game and we are very, very busy people. they don't find the need or have the need to have a social anchor in parish life. so they dip in and they dip out. in ways that was not the case.

the parish was where it is all happening. your children were going to school there, your social networks were there, this is your shared experience for a religious group that was not always in good favor in this country. >> i think that makes sense. in many ways, catholics were not welcome in their early history. i think we are as welcome as anyone can be now. i guess, as social institutions, but also losing some vibrancy as a sacramental or sacred institution. >> well, parishes are very interesting. in san francisco there are new ways of immigration. in california, and in san francisco. very catholic populations. america, mexico, central america, the philippines, vietnam.

to name a few. this is our generations immigrant ways. they are coming and they're coming with the faith. and where are they coming and where are they experiencing parish life? those of us who are part of the irish italian german catholic communities, we see our parishes changing. we see them aging. we see a new generation not particularly connected. and there is this sense of contraction. what do the people in the pews do? i think there is this tendency to sit in the pews and say, you know, the parish is getting smaller, it's getting older. where are the people? we don't see ourselves as ambassadors of faith.

we aren't reaching out and saying, you are new to the neighborhood.,, come join us. this sense of, there has to be a reason for people to come. >> on that note, let's take a brief break. when we come back we will discuss the age of laity, in which laity are taking over more and more of the staffing work at the parishes. please join us. ,,

hello, welcome back two "mosaic." i'm with doctor melanie mori talking about parish culture and the renewal of the parish culture. there has been a history of waves and immigration bringing their faith, parishes being expanded and built, many different expert groups. that continues with faithful and vibrant people working hard in their parishes. let's move then to the fact that it is as we say, the age of the laity.

in the parish, all of these important staffing positions, professional and paid positions of various kinds are being done by laity. i would like to have you addressed a certain aspect of this which is wonderfully explicated in your book. you report as many histories have said that for decades and decades, the sisters, religious sisters, did the heavy lifting in the parishes and were the go to people for creating and sustaining transmitted catholic culture. that no longer exists. but what you have done in your book is analyze the approach to work and the virtues that they exercise and entrepreneurial and innovative techniques. and i think you are trying to decide if we can imitate those approaches and things, and, you know, build a future for ourselves. i would like you to address that. >> as you say, women's religious congregations, they were the people responsible for transmitting catholicism. we have a lot of time and

attention that we have spent, they focus on the priests, we certainly are the sacramento data -- sacramental and spiritual leaders. but the cultural context was always shaped and they had the deepest culture in the church and are responsible for passing that on. when you explain what they did, they had these cultural packages. that they developed, created, and consistently worked through and moved and adjusted with whichever group they were working with, and with an eye to the future and an eye to always more, and better, and more, and better. so, they had this great sense of, our best days are coming and we are the agents of that.

and so they have these cultural packages of a practice that was accompanied by a narrative that had some norms, and that had a benefit. and so, that particular process is how we are acculturated in any circumstance. and we were magnificent at eight. >> give me those four elements again. there is a practice. it's accompanied by a narrative, and, there are benefits. and, there are enormous. now i will give you a classic old one. not one that we would necessarily want to revisit today but it certainly was effective and upfront. and that was sunday mass. sunday mass was required. attending mass every single sunday was the product is. the norm was always without fail and the narrative was very, very distinct and clear. go to mass, you will go to heaven. don't go to mass, you will go to hell.

the benefit was obvious if you actually did this. now clearly, that is not where we want to go. but, the extent to which we have actually developed a compelling narrative for why anyone should go to mass, we haven't come up with something as compelling, and certainly, it is not because you don't go because you don't want to go to hell, you go for an encounter with christ. somehow we've got to work on our narrative. somehow we got to consistently talk about the narrative, the practice, the norm being every week. and the benefit. what is the benefit to you as an individual and to the church community as a whole? no, we have this new generation of people who have committed their lives to the service of the church. and they have paid to educate themselves. they work often for far less

wage than they might in other places. they are responsible for creating the parish culture and working with the pastor in order to make stuff happen. >> one way in which i have heard this expressed is i think the laypeople are trying to rebuild phi or take over the religious orders and do the kinds of things they did. what i think is interesting about your book is you specify, you analyze how they accomplish so much. and being innovative. in many instances, the sisters were running corporations and doing all kinds of difficult things. and we don't think of make obedient sisters doing. >> no. nones were great women who have such deep faith and such consonants, and the providence of god, that they weren't doing

-- that they were doing god's work and they had huge dreams. and they make those dreams come true. we used to always say that the sisters were able to see in children a capacity they could not see themselves. and have the energy to help us realize it. and is more difficult in the circumstances today for the people who worked in lay ministry. but i think one of the great important lessons that we learned from the sisters is how they viewed young people in the passing on of the faith. our tendency now is to focus on the adults with the idea that they are the first educators of children and there is sort of this trickle-down. sisters looked at it very differently. they knew that many of the parents were not all that comfortable doing this. they supported the sisters. but, they focused their attention on the children. and, they leveraged that, the love of the parents for the

children and desire for children's welfare to bring the parents and and continue their education in the faith. so, what about today? when we have fewer young people attending mass on a regular basis. and there is a fair amount of social pressure not to go. well, are there places in the parish that they can see themselves? are these lay members, the staff, taking a page out of the sisters' books and saying, let's gather all of these young people, find places for them, let them know that they belong. there are things that they can do. they can contribute to this parish life and contribution is important. and when they do, they will bring their parents with them. >> i see. and there are benefits. let's take a break at this moment and we'll come back. we are going to talk with dr. melanie morey more about our parish culture in the next segment.

hello, and welcome back. we are talking with dr. melanie morey about parish culture. we are at the last piece of the parish, the rectory. the clergy where the priests live and do their work. now you have described the priests role as being a threefold thing. to offer the eucharist and other sacraments, to lead the local community of the faithful and help the church spread christ message. so, that is the perpetual role of the priest. how does the priest fulfill that role in american catholicism today? there's challenges and opportunities. >> well, in many ways, the priests are as powerful, if not more so than they were before. but their function is somewhat different.

they were literally sort of the ruler of their turf for a long. all of time. to some extent, that is still true. i mean, they have all kinds of canonical responsibilities that belong to them. i think the important thing for them is that the parish priest is still the visible leader of the parish. he is the visible, actual, spiritual leader of this community of people. and anybody who has been in a catholic parish knows that when the pastor changes, it is significant in the life of the parish. there is sometimes resistance to that change. there is sometimes great joy at that change. but, there is an enormous cultural impact. and, parish priests set the

tone by how they operate with the staff, and with the people. and also by the way they perceive their own reality. and, that gets played out in the narrative. that they share with the people not only about scripture, about the faith, but about the community itself. and i think it is possible to think of this as a shrinking community. and when you do, you get very careful about, how do we spend our money? are we being thrifty? how are we being stewards in that sense? because you see the pool is declining and you are worried about it. >> yeah, yeah. >> the sisters, and i think another generation of priests as well, had this view of a

faith and divine providence and the sense of the tomorrows being better tomorrows, depending on what they were doing. so, they set an expansive view of this gift of the faith. a gift that brought them great joy, and one that they wanted to share. if that is your mindset, what you are going to end up doing is saying, well, maybe we have not a ton now but it's only because we have not tapped our resources. it is only because we have not expanded the pool. father and i used to talk a lot about trying to grow the market share of catholics. this mentality of, they just have not heard the good news. have not joined us yet. so in that sense, let me give you an example. coming to san francisco, i came from the east coast. in the winter it is freezing cold and in the summer, it's sweltering hot. parishes have to heat and light

these institutions and they do. if not for the love of the people, serving for the love of the pipes. but here in california, you know, you think of this very temperate climate. churches are dark and cold very frequently because people are trying to save money. and it's not that cold, but there is that kind of pinched feeling about things. whereas if there is this expansive, this is the place, this is sacred ground, this is where we will come together to celebrate the eucharist, where the lord will be with us again in holy communion. this is a place of warmth. and joy, and great community. this is god's house. then, you expand. you open up. you make it as beautiful, as in fighting, and then the community engages that in the

sense of who we are becoming, not what we are losing. >> so true. in an age of what you call contraction, i think it is true that people have said the more beauty, the better music, the better warmth you can provide in your church the more welcome it will be, and people will come to get the truth that you're producing, as they come to be welcomed into the community as well. you talk about opening up and expanding. and i wanted to close by giving some praise to your book. this book is, i think i could call it a how-to manual for professionals. and yet, i am not a professional. i have read it and very much enjoyed it. all of my post is are there. i think it is fascinating. because what you have done in part is help catholics relearn the stories of what it means to be catholic. things that we take for granted, things that we had forgotten about, things that we

no longer do. you tell fresh stories about why we do them and why we should. thank you very much for being here. that's all the time we have. >> thanks for joining us on "mosaic." thank you, dr. melanie morey. this has been very enlightening. we will see you on our next program, and thanks for listening.

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