captioning sponsored by cbs >> dickerson: today on "face the nation", president trump feels limitations of the office and the paces of foreign, faces a foreign policy challenge from north korea. >> a 0 north korean missile test interrupted japanese abe's weekend at the winter white house. >> the united states of america stands behind japan, its great ally, 100 percent. >> dickerson: the late nightcaps a week of chaos and interruption. bigger, appeal decision upholding the block on the president's travel ban. undeterred, mr. trump promised to fight but also maybe to start over. >> we will win that battle. we have a lot of other options including just filing a new ban. >> dickerson: what the

president learned from this experience and what is his white move. we will talk to steven miller about that and the crackdown across the nation on illegal, illegal immigration and talk to chuck chiewrm and arizona republican senator jeff flake. and in a week where republicans face outrage back home over the president's policies we will launch a new project to see how things are playing outside of washington. the cbs news newshour nation tracker and in-depth survey of america's views on the trump administration, and the country and our political panel will weigh in on another wild week in washington. it is all coming up on face nation. >> dickerson: good morning and welcome to "face the nation" f i am john dickerson. we begin with the top democratic senator, chuck schumer who joins us from the broadcast center in new york. welcome, senator. i want to start with this question of north korea and the

missile test. do you think this is as test of a new president or is this just north korea doing its periodic thing? >> well, it is both. north korea is showing itself, itself to be an irresponsible nation in every way and i am sure they are testing president trump. i was glad he issued the statement with the prime minister of japan, but he also wants to do it quickly with south korea. south korea is probably more susceptible to north korea's virulence than any other country and there was some doubt cast on the relationship in the campaign by the then candidate trump. so do the same thing with south korea that he did with japan and do it quickly. >> dickerson: is that all that can be done, though s just words and condemn haitian? >> no. the real answer to curtailing north korea is china. like on so many other areas, china has been woefully inadequate and they could squeeze north korea economically, 90 percent of the imports and exports go through china and i think we have to

tell the chinese that they have to put the wood to north korea at a much more serious way than they have done so far. >> dickerson: let's -- i want to move on to the president's executive order on immigration. he is considering maybe doing another executive order. what is your view about that? do you think it is possible to do with -- >> no. i think he ought to throw it in the trash. i think this executive order is so bad and so poisoned and it is, its genesis is so bad and terrible that he ought to just throw it in the trash can and for two reasons. first reason, it doesn't really make us safer. it doesn't focus on the areas where we really need to tighten up. they are, number one, on lone wolves, the last two major terrorist incidents in america didn't occur through immigrants but americans in tune with evil isis and no less authority than john mccain, republican, has said that this order actually encourages lone wolves. and the second is called the

visa wave program. it is very easy to come to america from countries that we have always regarded as friendly .. i think 27 of them, but these days, there are would be terrorists who have infiltrated places like belgium and france and they can come into this country much more easily than someone who is a refugee from the seven countries that the president mentioned. that means real tightening up. >> dickerson:. >> but the second reason this order is so bad, john, it is just unamerican and unconstitutional. a religious ban is just, it goes against the american grain. we believe in immigrants in this country and we don't believe in a religious test and finally, it hurts us economically. when immigrants don't come to this country, it hurts our job creation, our job grover, silicon valley is very worried a lot of their jobs are going to have to go to vancouver are where canada has a much forward looking immigration policy. >> dickerson: let me ask you this, senator. why not just have a pause? we do know in europe that isis has tried to get into the refugee program. they have had issues there.

isn't it okay for a president to come in and say, hey, let's take a look at this vetting. we will have a little bit of a pause here. there is nothing wrong with that, is there? >> well first it is not a pause for syria, and second, it cuts, against the grain of what america is all about, which is it embodies a religious test, that is how rudy giuliani set it up and that is how president trump talk about it, and it doesn't focus on the areas that need to make us safe. three judges on the panel said they showed no evidence our safety is at risk from -- rather they have shown no evidence that this executive order would make us safer. >> dickerson: rudy giuliani i think he said he was moving away from a religious test but let me move on to just working with donald trump in general. the majority -- the democratic leader in the house nancy pelosi said as long it is a president continues down this path, she innocent with the various policies he is promoting there is, there is nothing democrats can work with him on. is that your view too?

that is submit nothing, can't work with him on anything? >> let me say this, we will be guided by our values. our values guide us, we are in the going say no to president trump on things we might totally free with, easy example. he calls for closing the carried interest loophole, something democrats have stood for and republicans have opposed i am not going to say no because his name is on it, but he has moved so far away from moderate positions, you know, he campaigned as a populist againt the democratic and republican establishments, but he is governing as a hard right guy, and his values are so far away from ours it is hard to see where he would cooperate, we could cooperate request him. you know, his cabinet, hard right, not populist, bankers, billionaires, conflicts of interest, people who want to end medicare. those who demean workers. >> dickerson: you talk about your values but you also have got your voters and people protesting in front of your house that say resist or resign.

it looks like the situation in the democratic party is the democrats can never cooperate with the president, without their voters punishing them on everything. >> well, let me say this. first, i think the fact there are protests is a great thing. i have never seen such energy in the streets since the vietnam war, and people are truly worried about president trump. i spent four hours at the women's march in new york, about 20 participant of the people there i queried hadn't vote sod this new energy is a great thing. are they going to be -- sure. but the democrats and so many americans are united in opposing trump in where he is going .. that i think overall it is an extremely positive thing. >> dickerson: let me ask you a specific case on the supreme court nominee, judge jj neil gorsuch which the president put forward you wrote in the "new york times" he quote refused to answer rudimentary questions in your interview with him and you said that was a real challenge. but both democratic and republican nominees for that court spot in the past have

refused to answer questions all the type. that's what they do. so this doesn't seem to me to be something that is particularly new for a supreme court justice or one that has been no, ma'am theyed to refuse to answer questions, they might have to rule on if they get on the bench. >> okay. what is particularly new, john, is that we have a president who is over reaching dramatically, who shows little respect for rule of law, who seems to violate the constitution in his first three weeks and intimidates he judges who have cases before them. this demands a new standard, a much more independent justice than in the past, because after all, the supreme court is our last refuge against a president who over reaches, who doesn't respect balance of power. now, i sat with judge gorsuch and i said, show me your independent, well i am independent, i said show me and i asked him some very specific questions that he should answer. these are not about existing cases. i said, if there was a law that

said all muss lips are banned from the united states, would that be unconstitutional, that has nothing to do with the case before him or before us, before the court. he wouldn't answer. i asked him, what is his opinion of citizens united? an awful case, or the shelby case which undid voting rights, he wouldn't answer i asked him what is his view of some conservative legal scholars who have said president trump -- >> dickerson: let me ask you quickly senator. >> he wouldn't answer anything. i want to say one more thing. i had the erie feeling i was sitting just the same as with judge roberts when he was a judge. he wouldn't answer any questions. he said he called balls and vibes, he got into office and he became an activist judge and moved the country far to the right favoring special interests over working people. >> dickerson: final question, senator, he did mention though he thought it was disheartening that the president trump's comments about the judiciary and if you look at his record he has clashed with the idea of giving deference to the executive branch on regulate questions, so if you look at his record, he

has not, he has shown separation from executive and his words as well .. >> well i asked him would he publicly condemn what president trump did with the existing judge, which any judge worth his salt should do. he refused. he said to me, i am disheartened. now, his handlers were sitting there and he whispered you can make that public. so this was not dash behind closed doors, behind closed doors whisper to a senator and not say anything and when president trump attacked and said he didn't mean me, they all said yeah he didn't mean president trump. that was a further indication of his lack of independence. >> dickerson: all right, senator, we will have to leave it there. senator schumer thanks so much for being with us. and we go to arizona, jeff flake who sits on the judiciary committee and in phoenix this morning. senator, on this question of the travel ban, you were against it when it first came out. the way the house clarified some issues, particularly with respect to green card holders so

what is your view of it now? >> i do think it is constitutional. it is not a muss lip ban. it is focused on countries rather than religion or individuals. having said that, i have been clear i don't think it is a good idea. i think that the message that it sends to our allies abroad and the countries that we need to work with is not a good one. but i do think it is constitutional and i hope that we will pause and reflect and see where we need to go from here. >> dickerson: do you think the president should start over and issue a new one? >> well, we will see. i mean, obviously the president wants to keep the country safe. i recognize that. i think everybody does and i applaud him for trying to do so. but obviously it needs to be constitutional and it needs to be wise. we need to look and see where the real threats are and base this upon threats and not so much just what was promised in the campaign. >> dickerson: do you think the court was wrong to look at the

comments that the president made, president trump made when he was a candidate about a muslim ban in determining that this was -- that this executive order did have a religious test as a part of it? >> well, i do think the president has brought authority when it, broad authority when it comes to immigration and those who enter the country. so, yes, it troubles me a bit when the court is looking at motives or try to decide what the motives were. so, yes, that troubles me. having said that, like i said, i hope we move ahead and the president obviously wants to keep the country safe, we recognize that. that's a good thing. but i think we can arrive at policies that do it in a better way. >> dickerson: you are on the judiciary committee, you know about the way, the separation of powers, how presidents are supposed to treat judges. what is your assessment of the way president trump has talked about the judicial branch? >> well, it is fine to disagree with opinions. i mean, i reside in arizona where the ninth circumstance, we

do a lot of complaining about our circuit that has over, that is overturned more than any other circuit by the supreme court. it is fine to question the judgment, but to go avid judges or to talk about them i think judge gorsuch said it right, that is disheartening, and i think that we ought to avoid any personal attacks like that. >> do you think the president suggested that if there was a terrorist attack that the judge in seattle should be, and i guess now also the ninth circuit should be blamed if there is such an attack because of holding up this ruling? do you think that is appropriate? >> i just don't -- like i said, i don't think the ban that was in place was really based on our national intelligence or their assessment and so i don't think that that is healthy to do that, to try to blame judges or individuals. it is, if something happens in the future, but like i said, the president wants to keep the country safe. that is the motive.

we recognize that. >> dickerson: and previously, we explain to people why it matters there should be a separation between the judiciary and the presidency. >> yes. it does matter. these are three separate branches of government. that is the genius of our government and when i sat down with judge gorsuch that's what i appreciated most is his recognition there. he said, when he puts on the robe he recognizes that he is not a legislator and that is that we need, certainly, is judges that recognize the separation of powers and also legislators that do and the executive branch as well. that is what has made this country work so well for more than 200 years. >> dickerson: let me ask you a question about immigration. there has been an up tick in arrests following, it appears donald trump's promise he is going to crack down on criminals who are in the united states illegally. there is also some reporting that in addition there is also some small number that have been detained pause they are here just illegally but vice president committed any crimes what is your sense of what is

happening right now. is it what you expected from president trump? >> well, president trump promised to go after those who have committed februaries, felonies, aggravated fence and he is felonies and she doing, so that is applauded and money is shed ago tear for rapists and others for being deported and i am glad those are being expedited f but obviously .. we in congress need to reform immigration moving ahead. we have the -- that is going to come up because some of them are timing out of the program they are in now, and the president has expressed a willingness to work with congress on that. at the same time that he does that, i hope that we can work with him on some of the other issues. those who are in the country like the woman in arizona who was deported simply because she used documents, fake documents to work. i don't think anybody wants to put her in the same class as aggravated felon whose endanger public

safety so i think we can work with the administration obviously we are reaching out to them to do so. >> dickerson: president trump in an interview said people like the woman you described who is, whose only illegal act, is being here illegally shouldn't be afraid. do you think she and others should not be worried about the way immigration reform will be carried out by the administration? >> well, it is difficult right now, as we have heard from the white house, even this morning, it is difficult, the white house shouldn't be telling ice officials and others how to prioritize. obviously, some prioritization goes on, but i can tell you, there is a lot of worry here in arizona by those who have committed, you know, have come across, are illegally here but they have not committed aggravated felonies and i hope, and the only way to address this in a real way, a permanent way is for congress to get involved. the president needs to work with the congress.

we are reaching out to him on that. >> dickerson: all right, senator, thanks so much for being with us and we will be back in one moment. approaching medicare eligibility? don't put off checking out your options until sixty-five. now is a good time to get the ball rolling. consider an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company. like any of these types of plans, it could help you with out-of-pocket medical costs. call now and request your free decision guide and explore the range of aarp medicare supplement plans. start gathering the information you need...

to roll into sixty-five with confidence. >> dickerson: okay. so we are joined now by cbs news elections director an thon any salvanto who is launching the survey trackers, monitoring americans' views on the trump administration, congress and the country, anthony it is to a great so are have you back, let's describe first for people what this is. >> well as we did in 2016, the goal is always to understand people and listen to them, not simply to predict them or stick a number on them. so what we wanted to do was go out there and assembled a large representative panel from the country. it is balanced with people who supported donald trump and voted for him and people who backed hillary clinton, and those who didn't vote and it is harmer than a typical poll so what we are going to do is we are going to return to this panel again and again and follow how these people are feeling about the

administration, but more important, john, what they want and why they want it to really understand this complexity behind this sort of idea that the nation is divided. >> dickerson: and what is sofas neigh about over all of the years of talking to voters this is just a huge, massive group that all seem to get a sense of how they are sifting and sorting all of this fast breaking news and how it is filtering out to them from the time in washington where the news seems to change every ten seconds. >> yes, america doesn't always process and think the way washington thinks or the washington thinks america thinks. >> dickerson: well, let's just, what is the basic groupings that you have come up with in your findings? >> welshes folks have sorted themselves into four basic groups with regards to how they feel about the administration right now. there is four of them and they are first what we call the beliefers, the people who are strongly with the president. and then there is a second group who are also in support of him but with úonditions. they are waiting to see him deliver. there is a third group that superintendent supporting

him right now but could and we will talk about what they are looking for and then there is a fourth group of those who are firmly opposed. >> dickerson: all right. good. so we have got four groups. let's start with the first group, the believers, give us the characteristics of that group. >> yes, the beliefers like everything they see, they like what he is doing and like how he is doing it. they feel he is delivering on what he promised in the campaign, if not more. they like the travel ban. they would support him going around the courts to enforce the ban. they like the law idea and think, wall idea and mexico will pay for it and concerned with the security of the country and believe donald trump on the facts when people challenge him and they defend him. they are about a fifth, they are about a fifth of the nation right now. okay? >> dickerson: and this is the group that president trump when he was a candidate he joked, i could shoot somebody in the middle of fifth avenue and people would still be for me. so the believers in the country, these are the ones that are really fall for the president. >> the base of the base but

different from this group who also support the president, who are the conditional supporters, and they are with him now, this he like to the travel ban, they don't like it as much as the beliefers, believers but they are focused on the economy and what they say is, if he doesn't deliver on the economy, he could lose their support. they voted for him because they thought he could fix it, because they need to see him deliver jobs. what they like is they think he is shaking up washington, so he has not that going. and so they are not, they don't like the tweets as much and the communication style but they are waiting on the economy. >> dickerson: and a these conditional voters are the ones we have run into for when president trump was a candidate and we hear are them every morning in my conversations with those i met out on the campaign trail and still stay in touch with, they say, you know, in washington, you care about this and that and the other thing. i saw hip talking at carrier about jobs and that's why i want him in washington and all of this chaos you are concerned about in washington that's what i wanted is for him to go and break up washington. so that is

the conditional voters a in the second group. who is in the third group? >> the third is really interesting because they could come over and support him and they say so, which is when you see the support numbers in in, and these approval numbers they could go lower but they could also go a lot higher if he were to be able to bring these groups also. they are also looking for him to fix the economy. and that is what they want him to do. >do. >> and these are democrats he could pick up. >> they are not with him yet but they could. >> some democrats and a lot of independent i wants there is also a lot of voters who stayed out of this election but they are kind of rooting for him in a way. they want him to succeed. they want the nation to succeed, but they are hot there and the other key of it, john, is they feel he hasn't reached out to them and feel he doesn't respect people of different views. right now there are people with different views with him on policy, but if you were to make that reaching out, they say, they could come over. >> dickerson: so this is the tension between the people who really love president trump and those he needs to get that are

just outside of that group. >> right. because these people we call them curious, they think democrats should work with donald trump to find suings where they can, but the resisters, that part of the democratic base, the fourth group,. >> dickerson: the resisters, what is their profile? >> well their profile they want the democrats and most of them are democrats, liberal democrats, to stand up against trump on almost everything. so that is the tension, because what do the democrats do? they probably have got to satisfy both of these groups of current trump opponents, but their profile is also beyond being more liberal and opposed to the president on these policies, democrats based voters and more likely to be women and minority voters. they also feel that the president isn't reaching out, isn't trying to respect all of their views. and they are angrier than most of the other trump opponents, they say they feel angry, but not yet motivated and that is part -- not yet motivated so the democrats will have to sort of work on that part of the base.

>> dickerson: and we started talk about it with chuck schumers the resist errs and the curious that is where the fight is, the base a that wants no dealing with donald trump at all and the curious who wants democrats to at least try to work with the real estate. anthony salvanto thanks so much, as always we can't wait to follow this throughout the trump presidency and we will be back in a moment. >> this portion of "face the nation" is sponsored by america's biopharmaceutical companies. go boldly.

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>> dickerson: some of our cbs stations are leaving us now but for most of you we will be right back with a lot more "face the nation". stay with us. >>

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