>> dickerson: welcome back to "face the nation". i am john dickerson. we continue our conversation with chairman of the house intelligence committee devin nunes. mr. chairman, i wanted to get back to you to what you said about those who had burrowed in in the intelligence agencies, maybe holdovers from or supporters of president obama. is that something you are going to look into with your committee in terms of those who are burrowed in? >> no, no, we won't, but one of the things on this russia issue, john, that is important is that the house intelligence committee has long been conducting ongoing investigations into russia, and, in fact, a year ago i publicly stated that the biggest intelligence scare since 9/11 was our failure to understand putin's plans and intentions, at the time the administration balked at that, the ic ignored it and it wasn't until after they lost an election that they

started to pay attention to russia so i am happy they are paying attention to russia now, i am happy the american people are paying attention to russia. there are russia hawks now, i think there are more russia hawks in congress than there are congressmen and senators, and so we are happy to expand this investigation. i welcome it. however, we are not going to go on witch hunts against the america people, against american citizens. and, you know, basically putting names of people in newspaper outlets, that is not real credible evidence that an american citizen has done something wrong, but if there are american citizens, from any political party that are communicating with russia, russian agents, i want to know about it. bring it to the committee, because we would like to investigate. >> dickerson: and you are referring to the stories that the white house said have no merit to them, which is citizen whose are involved in the trump campaign had any contact with the russians, is that what you are referring to? >> that is correct. as far as i know, our law enforcement agencies don't have

that information, so if there is someone else that has this information, you know, i would think -- i would like for these people to bring this information to me so we can investigate. >> dickerson: is your committee going to investigate michael flynn? the senate intelligence committee is investigating this. will yours? >> well, we will investigate -- what i said is we will follow the facts wherever they lead. so if there is credible evidence against general flynn that he has done something wrong, we would love to do that. but the fact of the matter is, i don't see any evidence that he -- that he actually discussed th annexation of crimea and the invasion of ukraine. if michael flynn, if general flynn was talking about obama's pettiness that he did after the, right after christmas kicking out a few russian diplomats and telling the russians not to overreact and if the fbi used the logan act, i think we have much bigger problems here than michael flynn. he is the least of the problems we have in this whole issue.

>> dickerson: i will ask you a taxes about issues. pettiness you 19 penalties based on meddling in the election. >> when i talk sanctions, we are dealing, we are talking about sanctions of foreign governments, the eu and others, the economic sanctions. what presiden president obama dr christmas was a joke, and the russians laughed at it. >> let me ask you quickly about taxes. comprehensive tax reform coming, senator graham said the house and senate are not on the same final, he said you couldn't get ten votes for what the house republicans are putting forward in the house. what are your prospects for tax reform and when do you think it is going to happen, you think? >> so one of the things with tax reform is, it is very, very difficult, so we spent the last decade looking at every possible reform, and one of the things we are going to have to do is we are going to have to educate the american public. currently, right now, nobody can understand the tax code. the tax reform that we are talking about is one that actually the american people once they understand it will

like it, and they will be able to implement it and it really is the way that donald trump can make america great again. and so we have a lot of education to do, including in the house of representatives, including with the united states senate, and so, you know, at this point, i would expect that a lot of senators if they don't even know what is in the plan, they don't even know how it works, you know, there is just a lot of work that has to be done, including a lot of sales that have to be done by the president of the united states. but i do believe that his -- the fate of the american people and our economy relies on us getting fundamental tax reform done, blowing up this existing tax code and moving to a clean, transparent system that is there, fair for all americans. >> dickerson: we will have to leave it there. thank you very much, mr. chairman and we turn now to the top democratic on the house oversight. >> good to be with you over. >> dickerson: you called on jason chaffetz, to allow the committee to investigate michael flynn, the former national

security advisor. where does that stand? >> he has been very reluctant to look at anything having to do with russia and their interference with our elections. as chairman nunes has said, they seem mohr anxious in looking for leakers than dealing with the issue of our elections being interfered with, which i think is phenomenal. >> dickerson: in terms of you look at the whole elections being interfered with or michael flynn in particular? >> i want to look at michael flip and any interference with our elections. john, we can't have people in russia taking over our elections. first of all, it takes away from the credibility of the elections, it makes people feel uncomfortable, that is the voters and we have to have the integrity of our elections. and they seemed very reluctant to do that a. >> dickerson: let me ask you about leaks. you wrote last year in august, you said reporters have an obligation to ask why these sources demand to remain anonymous while refusing to provide copy of the documents

they are providing. it sounds like what chairman nunes says about these liens and no names attached. >> i am always concerned about leaks, i really am, our committee gets leaks and a lot of whistle blowers, john. when we address the secret service, chairman chaffetz is welcome to whistle blowers and leaks, we are getting leaks with regard to this issue, somebody once said attack the leakers, think we have to look at leaks but at the same time there are some things we can't change unless we do have certain information. other than that we wouldn't even know that flynn had the kind of interaction and enter, as with the russians, if we didn't have leaks, we wouldn't even know it. >> dickerson: let me switch to, your name came up in the president's press conference very prominently. and it was about with you are going to have a meeting with the president r you going to have a meeting? >> yes. i am looking forward it to. i think it was just -- he apparently was not in contact with his staff properly but we will meet on prescription drugs

and we will be out this week so i expect it to be the next week. >> dickerson: what are you going to talk about a? >> i want to talk about the high price of prescription drugs and he has made it clear that he wants to do something about that. i am also going to, john, talk to him about voting rights, he talks about a this voting fraud which is nonexistent but he doesn't talk about all of the people who have been the denied their right to vote because of suppression, so i want to talk about things like that also. >> dickerson: and what about the agenda for the urban communities? >> definitely. i understand that he will be -- that the congressional black caucus wrote him on january the 19th, he never answered the letter until a day or so ago. but they have laid out an agenda where they will be meeting with him and trying to resolve some urban issues and issues throughout the country. >> dickerson: and you think you can work with him? >> i think we have to work with him. i have got people who -- i keep telling people, this is our president. he is going to be our president for the next four years. i have got people in my community who are suffering from cancer and need treatment. i have people who need jobs and i have got to work with this

president but at the same time there is nobody that has been tougher on this president than i have been. >> dickerson: there is a feeling among democrats that i talk to, the lawmakers in the grass roots that there is a feeling that no democrat can work with this president because the grass roots will say you are working with the enemy and the passion against this president is so hard and democrats, is it really realistic that democrats will work -- >> john, it is very, very hard, but, john, we are only in in these jobs for a short period of time and i have to represent the people, the 700,000 people that i represent n that four years. i have got, i have kids who need schooling, people who need medicare and work with him on the things i have. but when values clash we will have to go toe to toe, period. >> dickerson: thank you so much, representative cummings for being with us. and we will be right back with some analysis. >> you know, geico can help you save money on your homeowners insurance too? great! geico can help insure our mountain chalet! how long have we been sawing this log?

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>> dickerson: now for some analysis, tom donilon served as president obama's national security advisor, and mike morell was number 2 at the cia, advised the the hillary clinton campaign and who is now cbs news senior security analyst. tom, i want to start with you, president trump is looking for a national security advisor. >> yes. >> dickerson: you know something about that job. what should he be looking for? >> first of all, you know, we had a lot of discussion with the national security council in the last couple of weeks. it is the center of policy development and crisis management for the u.s. government. and if it is not appropriately staffed, and functioning effectively, if it doesn't have the trust of the cabinet and working together with the cabinet, you can not make

policy, and you cannot manage crises in the united states government. with respect to the job, it is essential that it gets filled quickly. you want to have someone who can bring a sense of teamwork. you have a model for this job in scowcroft who was even handed and calm under george herbert bush, 41, and president ford, he served twice, right? to have some of this calm, steady and can run a process. you need to give the national security advisor all of the authority that he or she needs, and you need to have an exclusive process you can't have alternate and parallel processes, it is not going to work, right? so you need, the national security council is supposed to engage the issue, get the necessary input, develop the options and bring them to the president for decision and then also oversee implementation. >> dickerson: and not have back channels. i want to add another very important aspect. is to bring together the views of the national security team to the president and not drive those

views to what you the national security advisor believe. that's really important. >> dickerson: so meaning don't precook it? >> exactly. >> dickerson: mike, tell me what is your assessment of the relationship between the president and the intelligence community as we talked about that a lot this morning, something you know about? how is it? >> -- when the president was openly critical of the intelligence committee and cia, it had an impact on more -- morale. it quieted down once the president got his team in there, mike pompeo, things quieted down but heating up again with the president's criticism over the leaks. just because it is intelligence information that was leaked doesn't mean it was leaked by the intelligence community or cia, right? big difference. but he is now criticizing them. i think ultimately the morale will depend not on the public criticism, the morale will depend on whether the intelligence community believes the president is listening to what they have to say, has an open mind about what they have to say, he doesn't have to agree

but he has to listen. >> dickerson: tom, in picking a new national security advisor, i mean the president has somebody in an interim position there. but how much of the job can an interim period do when they are not there for long-term? in other words, tell me why this has to be filled so quickly. and then on top of that, tell me where the big area in the country, in the world that concerns you right now. >> yes. it is exceedingly difficult to do this on an interim basis, right? you can make the trains run on time for pa period of time but you can't really engage the issues, and as mike said bring the cabinet together and develop long-term strategic option force the country and that is what is needed right now. the world is looking for president trump to, definitive views and there is a high degree of uncertainty and anxiety in the world and the place where that happens is the national security, is the national security council and led by the national security vis sorry so you need to have a permanent leader who can take on these challenges. >> dickerson: mike, in terms

of russia and the american position with respect to russia, an expert i was talking to was saying that one of vladimir putin's hopes may have been to med until the election but also to create chaos in american institutions. do you see it that way? >> one of his primary goals is to weaken the united states in the world so he works that a whole bunch of different ways. i think what struck me sense the inauguration is he has taken a number of actions. i think to actually challenge the president, to test the president. he has -- he has increased the fighting in eastern ukraine, just yesterday he announced that russia would accept the passports of people from eastern ukraine. that sends a very powerful signal and they have deployed a cruise missile that is contrary to an arms control treaty.

so three things, three very significant things in the last three weeks, and i think it is important for the president to stand up and say something about it. >> and we with a, we should talk about russia and things we know, respectfully and the things michael went through are things we know,. >> right but we also know there was russian interference in the u.s. election in 2016 and the intelligence committee did unusual, with high confidence, that needs to be investigated in a nonpartisan basis. that is another, i think another important addition to the list, michael, that needs to be addressed, which is what happened in 2016 election? how can we prevent it from happening again? and how can we work with our european partners to ensure the that russia doesn't interfere in their series of elections in 2017. >> dickerson: michael, let me switch to north korea, the president is concerned about that issue, a miss still launch last weekend. i am sure i asked you this before, but what can the u.s. government really know about what is happening in ne north

korea? >> we know quite a bit and the situation has become much more dangerous over the last five years or so, for two reasons, one is the stockpile and number of nuclear weapons that north korea has has become much larger, they keep on adding to it. and, two, by testing missiles over and over and over again, those missiles are becoming more capable, and they have more time to be able to mate a nuclear weapon to one of those missiles. so the situation is more dangerous. there are three significant risks, john. one is that they could actually launch one at the united states. i think that is the lowest risk. two, the regime could fall, there is a real likelihood at some point this regime will fall and the nuclear weapons will be out of control. somebody, they will be out there, and they will be able to to be able to grab them, and three, north korea could sell one of those nuclear weapons one day. those are the three risks we

face. it is significant. we haven't had a crisis yet. this could be the first crisis in 2017. you know, i want to finish up on this. said something this week he is the head of the special operations command one of the most important command in other words the army, the government continues to be in unbelievable turmoil, we need to deal with this to deal with the 0 orth korea missile crisis. >> dickerson: we will have to leave it there. we will be right back with our political panel. >> ,,,,,,,,,,,,

>> dickerson: and for this week's political panel we are very lucky to have the "washington post"'s bob woodward to join us and along with the editor in chief of the atlantic, jeffrey goldberg, bob i want to start a with you. the president has said that the press is the enemy of the american people. you know something about that kind of language. what do you make of that? >> the press is not the, is not the enemy and the concern in the press is that we will have secret government, that government does things that we should know about that we don't. and the judge who said it got it right. democracies die in darkness so we are working against the darkness. trump is right on some of these stories have been out of bounds. i think most of them have been

quite good, and he is just going to have to learn that there are leaks and that there is criticism and so many things he is not going to like, and the key is to get the big things right. what is the policy in the middle east going to be? with russia? with north korea? what is he going to do with the economy? cyber security? counterterrorism? those are the big issues. the press should be thinking about them, so should he. >> dickerson: jeffrey, it is clear part of the white house strategy is to use the press as a foil and we are helping with this back and forth. so how do you see that? on the other hand the press is the enemy is a powerful statement, so how do you sort this? >> look, we all know that any time the president of the united states opens his mouth it is newsworthy so we have to report on his attacks on the press. on the other hand we don't want to create a feeling like this is completely unprecedented. i am going back to a story bob knows in 1973, walter cronkite

don't told the atlantic he said the nixon white house is very deliberately has used the press as a foil to enhance its own credibility. this is a strategy that is, that has some precedent in american history so we have to keep our journalistic composure about this as we go forward. >> dickerson: yes. absolutely. bob, let's talk about the president's press conference this week. i want to -- you noticed something. let's run a clip here quickly and get your reaction to it. >> north korea, we will take care of it, folks what is going to happen when i am dealing with -- well, really, really important subjects like north korea. i don't have to tell you what i am going to do in north korea, wait a minute. >> dickerson: so, bob, what did you make of -- >> three times -- he brings up north korea himself, saying, you know, i don't have to tell, i am clearly worried about leaks about north korea, saying, hey, look i am going to take care of

it, folks. this is on his mind and rightly on his mind. i think president obama told him north korea i can't is one of these things you really heed to worry about, maybe at the top of the list, and so it is logical and, again, where obama apparently said this, i don't sleep because of north korea, and it is quite logical, because north korea has a leader that is unstable and they have nuclear weapons. >> dickerson: jeffrey, what did you make of the press conference? >> well, i mean -- 77 minutes, after just arguing that, you know, we have precedent for various aspects of the trump administration there are some things unprecedented and this performance art we see at these press conferences, at that press conference in particular was quite striking. i think about this in the prism of how the world views us, and the world depends on our sobriety in a kind of way.

people resent the united states and its global power but also reassured in many ways by the president of the united states and by very stable, sober minded person at the helm of the united states and those kind of performances are actually quite unnerving, i think, to me and they are quite unnerving to people around the world. >> dickerson: bob, there have been two ends of the spectrum with respect to how the president trump is doing, on the other hand there is the chaos idea and then the other is the president is "a fine-tuned machine". senator graham kind of came down in the middle, on big things he is doing just great and the other things are just part of getting your eggs underneath you. how do you see this? >> i have listened to senator graham and i thought it was wise. i come down in the middle on this, there are some good things, some things that are not working, but we don't want in the media to set ourselves up as the opposition. i know trump a little bit. i don't think he really believes that the press is the enemy of the people, frankly.

and we have to do our reporting in a very aggressive, careful way ten months ago with bob costa, we interviewed trump and it was tough and he came out and he said, well, it was fair and accurate. so i think you can be tough and fair and accurate. >> dickerson: and there is a lot that republicans like in what he is doing, not just the supreme court, but the affordable care act, getting rid of regulations, and also comprehensive tax reform. >> right. it is interesting in some ways, not giving political advice here, obviously but in some ways they have a better story to tell than they are telling, and that is because in part, in part because of these personnel sort of -- this personnel chaos that is going on, national security down is sill, in particular, but in part because the level of unnecessary attack on the media, the statements about the independent judiciary that are quite troubling. if he would get out of his own way on occasion, you could see a plausible case to be made that he has something good to sell to

the people and obviously the base seems to continue to appreciate what he is doing. >> dickerson: they sure did in florida yesterday. bob are, what is your view when we look back some years now on the michael flynn is a garks, saga, what should we take away? >> i think there are many unanswered questions. i am not sure it was a firing offense, quite frankly, and two and a half weeks before the inaugural, i met with flynn and went through a number of things, like russia, and he made the case, said, look, we are going to have a two track strategy, reach out to putin, and at the same time build-up our military in a way that putin is going to hate, and it is going to be very tough. we have not seen that side of it, so if there is some strategy in all of this, and i agree with jeffrey on the economy. they have so many points they could make and just not. >> dickerson: i am afraid we have run out of time, bob, jeffrey, thanks to both of you and we will be back in a moment.

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>> dickerson: that's it for us today. thanks for watching. until next week, for "face the nation", i am john dickerson. captioning sponsored by cbs captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

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