. [ music ]. . hello, and welcome to "mosaic". we're going to talk today about an institution that every catholic knows about, an institution so familiar that many of us perhaps take it for granted, the catholic parish. it is the center of life. your baptism is there, funeral will be there, and an opportunity for richly text tured life. the educational and social, the recreational and communal. but participation in this parish life has been declining and parishes face challenges. our guest today is dr. melany m.

morey. co-author of the important book renewing parish culture, building for a kat rick future. as the book says the local parish is the home base of american catholics and in these smallest and basic units, the culture is sustained and transmitted. the vitality of catholicism depends on parish life. what are the challenges, what are the possibilities? please stay with us and after this short break, join us talking with dr. melany morey about the catholic parrish. parrish.

. [ music ] . hello, and welcome back. we have with us today dr. melany morey, and welcome to you, thank you. >> thank you. >> a little bit about you.

a bachelor's degree from smith college, mass terse a harvard. you have an expertise in catholic identity and catholic culture. and today at the arch diocese of san fransisco, you have an important role. the book is called renewing parish culture, building for a catholic future and you've taught and worked in parishes so you have hands on experiences. let pee state this. what's the anatomy of the parrish? it has three groups, the people, largest group, the staff, smaller group, and then the priest, if you're lucky enough to have a priest, is priest or one, or two, or three. of these three groups i'd like to have you address the challenges and identities for all three, and if you could,

let's start with the largest group, the people, the congregation, the people in the pews. we know there's a decline in parish participation. can you suggest to us what's keeping people away? >> one of the things about parishes is they have this internal parts and constituents, actors, but they live against the backdrop of a wider, larger culture. myself, i've been a parishioner where i grew up in salt lake city, on the east coast in florida, in seattle, here in san fransisco. the backdrop in each of those places is somewhat difference and it has an impact on the mindset, the attitudes, and the reality of those who are in catholic parishes. those two things are playing against each over. i think people are largely familiar with a lot of research that's being done in the united states which is one

of most religious countries in the world. there is an increasing number of people who identify as none. >> none. >> n-o-n-e. people who may have some kind of spiritual attitude, disposition, but they don't identify with any religious tradition: so that's one part. in a place like san fransisco, one of the things that's also interesting is like many places in the united states, there's a lot of demographic change. there's an article this past weekend in the new york times about the fact that there is a crisis of children in san fransisco. unlike most cities, there are only 13% of the population is under the age of 18. >> . >> wow. >> so if there are fewer young

people and many of more of those identifying as nones and less and less involvement of young people in parishes, you have to begin to ask the question, what about the future? where are we going? is there a succession plan for those of us who are much older and in many ways sustaining parish life here in this archdiocese. >> people are out of the habit of going to their parish. there's not a younger cohort visibly come up, but what about the older adult catholics? have they tapered off in their observance in some way as well? >> to some extent. one of the things that's happened in american life is in the 1800s, as an immigrant populations and waves of immigrants came, and many of them were catholic, irish, german, italian, they

identified with their national parish. catholics ran a parallel culture in the united states. we had our own insurance companies, we had our own youth organizations, we had -- everything that the secular society had, we replicated within catholic life. so it was the great meeting place that kept this community tightly together. >> m-hmm. >> in american culture today i think it's obvious that with families the great unifier is sports. >> ah. >> so many of their weekends are spent going from this soccer game to that hockey game, and we are very, very busy people. they don't find the need or have the need to have a social anchor in parish life, so they dip in and they dip out in ways that was not the case.

the parish was where it was all happening. your children were going to cool there, your social networks were there, this was your shared experience for a religious group that was not always in good favor in this country. >> i think that makes sense, yeah. in many ways catholics were not welcomed in their early history. i think we're as welcomed as anyone can be now but we're losing our distinctive culture in our parishes and some vibrant vibrantcy. >> there are new waves of catholic populations, latin america, mexico, central america. >> the philippines.

>> the philippines, vietnam. this is our generation's immigrant wave and they are coming, and they are coming with the faith. and where are they going? how are they experiencing parish life? those of us who were part of the irish, german, italian catholic communities, we see our parishes changes, we see them ageing, we see a new generation not particularly connected. and there is this sense of contraction. >> okay. >> so, what, what do the people in the pews do? i mean, i think there is this tend yenseency and say the parish is getting smaller. we don't see ourselves as

ambassadors to save. we're not reaching out, saying you're new to the neighborhood, come, come join us. this sense of -- there has to be a reason for people to come. there has to be a connection. >> on that note, let's take a brief break and when we come back we'll discuss the age of the laity taking over the staff work at the parishes. please join us.

. [ music ]. . hello and welcome back to "mosaic" with dr. melany morey. we're talking about parish culture. there's a history of immigration, parishes being expanded and built, many different ethnic groups and that continues today with vibrant people working hard in their parishes. let's move to the fact that it is, as we like to say, the age of the laity. and in the parish all these important staffing positions, are being down by laity. i'd like to have you address a certain aspect of this which is wonderfully

explained in your book, you report as many histories have said, that for decades and decades, the religious sisters did the heavy lifting in the parishes and why the go-to people for sustaining catholic culture. that no longer exists but you've analysed their approach to the work and their techniques, and i think you're trying to decide if we can imitate those approaches and things, and, you know, build a future for ourselves. i'd like you to address that. >> as you say, religious congregations are -- they were the people responsible for transmitting catholicism. we have a lot of time and attention that we spend and focus on the priests and they certainly are the sack remental

leaders of the parishes. but the social context was always shaped by nuns and they had the deepest culture within the church and they were responsible for passing that on. and when you examine what they did, they had these little cultural packages that they developed, created and consistently worked through and moved and adjusted with whichever group they were working with and with an eye to the future, an eye to always more and better and more and better. so they had this great sense of our best days are coming and we are the agents of that. they had these culture practices of a practice that was accompanied by a narrative that had norms and a benefit.

that particular process is how we are a culturated in any circumstance and they were magnificent at it. >> taking those four elements again. >> there's a practice, accompanied by a narrative, and there are benefits, and there are norms. now, i'll give you a classic old one. >> please. >> not one we would necessarily want to revisit today but it was effective in its time and that was sunday mass. sunday mass was required, going -- attending mass every single sunday was the practice. the norm was always, without fail, and the narrative was very, very succinct and clear. go to mass, you go to heaven. don't go to heaven, you'll go to hell. the benefit was obvious, if you actually did this. now, clearly that is not where we want to go. but the extent to which we've

actually developed a compelling narrative for why anyone should go to mass, we haven't come up with something as compelling, and we certainly -- it is not because -- you don't go because you don't want to go to hell, you go for an encounter with christ. but somehow we have got to work on our narrative. we have to consistently talk about the practice, the narrative, the norm being every week and the benefit, what is the benefit to you as an individual and to the church community as a whole. now, we have this new generation of people who have committed their lives to the service of the church and they have paid to educate themselves, they work often for far less wage than they might in other places. they are responsible for creating the parish culture and working with the pastor in order to make that happen. >> one way which i've heard this

expressed i think is that the lay people are trying to take over the carism of the religious orders and to the kinds of things they did. what i think is interesting in your book, you specify, analyse how they accomplish so much. they were the -- the sisters were running corporations and doing difficult things that we don't think of meek, obedient sisters doing. >> absolutely. the nuns were great women who had such deep faith and such confidence in the providence of god that they were doing god's work, that they had huge dreams. and they made those dreams come true. and they made them come true in our lives. we used to always say that the sisters were able to see in children a capacity they could not see in him selves and had the energy to help us realize it. >> wow. >> it is more difficult in the

circumstances today for the people who work in lay ministry, but i think one of the great important lessons that we learn from the sisters is what -- how they viewed young people in this -- in the passing on of the faith. >> okay. >> our tendency now is to focus on the adults with the idea that they are the first educators of children and there is this sort of trickle down. >> okay. >> sisters looked at it very differently. they knew many of the parents weren't that comfortable doing this, they support the sisters, but they focus their attention on the children and they leveraged that, the love the parents for the children, and their desire for their children's wil fare, to welfare, to bring the children in.

we have fewer people attending mass on a regular basis and a fair amount of social pressure not to go today. well, are there places in the parish that they can see themselves? are these lay members the staff taking a page out of sisters' books and saying, let's gather all these young people, find places for them, let them know that they belong, that there are things they can do, that they can contribute to this parish life and their contribution is important, and when they do they'll bring their parents with them. >> i see the benefits. let's take break. we're going to talk with melany morey about parish culture in our next segment.

,, . hello, and welcome back.

we're talking with dr. melany morey about parish culture and we're at the least piece of the parish, the rectory, where the priests live. they lead the local community of the faithful and to help the church spread christ's message. that's the perpetual role of the priest of the do they fulfil that today? there's challenges and opportunities. >> in many ways the priests are as powerful, if not more so today, than they were before, but their function is somewhat different. i mean, they were literally the ruler of their turf for a long period of time. to some extent that is still

true. i mean they have all kinds of responsibilities that belongs to them. i think the important thing, though, for the people in the pews is that the parish priest is still the visible leader of the parish. he is the visible, actual spiritual leader of this community of people. and anybody who has been in a catholic parish knows that when the pastor changes, it is significant in the life of the parish. >> m-hmm. >> there is sometimes resistance to that change. >> m-hmm. >> there's sometimes great joy at that change. but there is an enormous culture impact, and parish priests set the tone by how they operate with the staff and with the people. and also by the way they

perceive their own reality. and that gets played out in the narratives that they share with the people, not only about scripture, about the faith, but about the community itself. i think it's possible to think of this as a shrinking community and when you do, you get very careful about how do we spend our money, how are we being thrifty. >> okay. >> how are we being stewards in that sense because you see the pool is declining and you're worried about it. >> yeah, yeah. >> the sisters and i think in another generation the priests as had a feeling of about tomorrows being better tomorrows. so they had an expansive view of this gift of the faith. a gift that brought them great

joy, and one that they wanted to share. if that's your mindset, what you're going to end up doing is, well, maybe we have not a ton now but it's only because we haven't tapped our resources. it's only because we haven't expanded the pool. father pitter and i used to talk a lot about grow the market share of catholics. this mentality of very just haven't heard the good news, they haven't joined us yetment so in that sense let me give you an example. >> i came from the east coast and in the winter it's freezing cold and summer it's hot, and parishes have to heat and light these institutions and they do. if not for the love of the people, certainly for the love of the pipes. but here in california, you know, you

think of this very temperate climate, church are dark and cold frequently because people are trying to save money, and it's not that cold so we can all -- but there's a pinched feeling about things. whereas if there's this expansive, this is the place, this is sacred ground, this is where we will come together to celebrate the eucharist where the lord will be with us again in holy communion, this is a place of warmth, and joy, and great community. this is god's house. >> m-hmm. >> then you expand, you open up, you make it as beautiful, as inviting, and then the community engages that in the sense of who we are becoming, not what we are losing. >> so true. in an age of what you call contraction, i think it is true that people have said, the more beauty, the better

music, the better warmth you can provide in your church, the more welcoming it will be and people will come to get the truth that you're producing as they come to be welcomed into the, the community as well. you talk about opening up and expanding and i wanted to close by giving you some praise to your book. this book, i think i can call it a how to manual for professionals and yet i'm not a professional and i enjoyed joyed it. what you've done in part is to help catholics relearn the stories of what it means to be catholic. things we take for granted, things we no longer do, you tell fresh stories about why we do them andhy we should. thank you for being here. that's all the time we have. >> thank you. >> thanks for joining us on

"mosaic", thank you dr. melany morey, this has been enlightening. see you on our next program. thanks for listening. ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

. [ music ] "relationship" author of all llion . welcome to bay sunday. i'm kenny choi. my first guest is an author, sold more than 50 million copies of men are from mars, women are from venus, john grey. relationship skills for today's complex world. welcome to bay sunday, john. >> pleasure to be back go great to have you here. everyone wants to talk about your number one best seller. what inspired you to write this new book. >> i wrote men are from mars 25 years ago. the relationships are changed. many