captioning sponsored by cbs >> dickerson: today on "face the nation", the president discovers that govern sag lot tougher than campaigning. it was make or break week for president trump's signature campaign promise to repeal and replace obamacare. so he hit the campaign trail running. >> this is our long awaited chance to finally get rid of obamacare. >> dickerson: but soon he was slowed by washington quicksand, negotiating behind closed doors with house republicans who didn't like his legislation. in the end, the closer was unable to close the deal with members of his own party. >> i will not sugarcoat this, this is an important day for us, doing big things is hard. >> dickerson: president trump took defeat as a chance to rewrite history, backing away from the push he just lost. >> i never said repeal it and replace it, within 64 days. >> dickerson: and sound add

defiant note. >> the best thing we can do politically speaking is let obamacare explode. it is exploding right now. >> dickerson: but it is not the only thing exploding. new revelations in the investigation into whether or not trump campaign officials colluded with the russians to influence the election sparked a partisan brawl in the house. fbi director comey confirmed what washington has been talking about for weeks, that the fbi is looking into those ties and said flat out there was no evidence to support president trump's claim that president obama had wiretapped him. >> the fbi and the department of justice have no information to support those tweets. >> dickerson: house intelligence chairman devin nunes did find new information relevant to the investigation. >> on numerous occasion it is intelligence community incidentally collected information about u.s. citizens involved in the trump transition. >> the president also -- collection with indication -- >> yes. >> dickerson: we will ask the top democrat on the intelligence

committee adam schiff why the chairman's revelation threatens to undermine the house investigation. schiff's republican intelligence committee colleague trey gowdy responds. >> conservative senator tom cotton who warned his house colleagues not to walk the plank and vote for a bad healthcare bill will also be here. plus have an interview with ronald reagan's secretary of state george schultz who has some advice for president trump. >> trust is the coin of the really gloom and cover the rest of the week's events with our political panel, including the bright spot for the president, supreme court nominee neil gorsuch appears to be coasting to confirmation despite a filibuster threat from democrats. >> i have a candidate, can, canon of ethics that precludes me from getting involved in any way, shape or form in politics. >> dickerson: if true to his word he will be the only one in partisan washington who does. iit is all ahead on "face the nation". good morning and welcome to "face the nation", i am john dickerson. the behind the scenes blame game

is in full swing here in washington after the obamacare repeal's failure. the president immediately blamed the democrats. but it was his own party largely a coalition of house conservatives known it is a freedom caucus who refused to support the bill. we begin with arkansas senator tom cotton who is a vocal critic of the bill, senator, welcome. in the washington examiner phil klein writes the headline to his piece, gop cave on obamacare repeal is the biggest broken promise in political history. what is your reaction to that judgment? >> well, john, first to say the president is right that the democrats gave us obamacare and the failure of the bill this week doesn't solve the problems of obamacare, it is continuing to get worse and our healthcare system is groaning under the weight of obamacare so we have to revisit it and now have the time to do it in a more deliberate and careful fashion but ultimately i don't think you can lay the defeat of this bill last week on any single faction in the house of representatives some conservatives opposed it, some moderates opposed it, even a chairman men of powerful

committees opposed it, the problem is the bill and process, healthcare is a very complicated issue to release a bill written in secret and expect to pass it in 18 days, i just don't think is fees gloobl so you said written in secret, well senate on paul ryan then, he controls that process. so are you saying basically that the house leaders, the house speaker did it -- the process was poorly handled? >> i think you can't expect to try to solve a problem that addresses one-sixth of the country's economy and touches every american in a very personal and intimate way and 18 days, when the democrats came to power in 2009 for 60 years at least they had been pursuing a national healthcare system, yet they didn't introduce legislation for eight months and didn't pass it for over a year of barack obama's first term, so it went through very public hearings and took testimony, developed fact based foundation of knowledge, president obama traveled around the country around town hauls and spoke to a joint session of congress, i am not saying we needed 14 months to do this but i think a more

careful and deliberate approach which we now have time to do because we have to the revisit healthcare anyway would get us further down the path to solution. i believe both moderates and conservatives made a lot of concessions already, i have friends like jim jordan in the freedom caucus and jim dent, they are good men and want to work together and find a solution that both they and everyone inbetween can agree to with time i think we can do that. >> dickerson: so your judgment, so-so nobody mistakes your message is the house rushed it? >> i think the house immediate bit too fast, 18 days is simply not enough time for such major landmark legislation. >> dickerson: the president this morning, know is actually pointing fingers at the freedom caucus and said, quote, democrats are smiling in dc the freedom caucus with the help of the club for growth and heritage have saved planned parenthood and obamacare. what do you think about that? >> again, you know, it wasn't just conservatives in the house, in fact i think more nonconservatives than conservatives opposed it and when you lose the chairman of

the house appropriations committee one of the most powerful positions, the problem really is not with a specific faction in the house, i think it is with the bill. >> dickerson: let me get your experience from that town hall that everybody saw, that was woman who stood up and said that she would be dead were it not for obamacare. the president has said that he is going to wait for obamacare to explode and collapse and then it will get fixed. how would that go over with that woman at that town hall or the other people? >> well i think the president is simply stating a fact that obamacare continues to get worse, premiums continue t to go up every year, when you get to new open enrollment system, some states have only one inshun, insurer which is a monopoly, one thing that can happen while congress deliberates over healthcare is phase 2, secretary of health & human services tom price can undertake regulations designed to lift some of the worst harms of obamacare and try to give some people relief. later this year, we have must pass healthcare legislation that

is coming up that children's health insurance programs is very important to a lot of dependent, by that pointer i hope we can reach some kind of consensus where we can try to do away with the worst problems of obamacare,, the only be addressed by legislation. >> dickerson: here is what i wonder about is the people at the end of these policies and that you dealt with in those town hauls is when they hear the president say i am going to let it collapse and then the democrats will beg me to fix it. but when people who are out there nervous about this who have obama care, people are straight up nervous, isn't that a nervous making thing to hear? >> well, as i said, as in the stated time obamacare comes up as topic in arkansas i know some people were helped by obamacare, but many more were hurt by it and those are the people we need to keep in mind when we are trying to solve the problem for people who benefited from obamacare without imposing all of the costs that obamacare did, and the president simply state ago fact that entire healthcare system is growing under the weight of obamacare, we don't have a choice to revisit or not revisit, we have to revisit it. >> dickerson: let me ask you

finally about mosul, there are reports that 200 civilians have been killed as a result of a bombing in mosul, perhaps from an american air mission there. is this a result of the loosening of rules of engagement and how should people think about this? >> very sad development, obviously the department of defense is investigating, i don't believe this is as a result of any kind of loosening of rules of engagement. rather i think it is simply the facts on the ground for much of the last part of last year, the fighting was in east mosul which is a much smaller less densely populated area, now it is in west mosul which is a more densely populated area, the ultimately the blame lays with the islamic state, they fight from apartment buildings and homes, mosque, hospitals and schools and so forth. the blame does not lay with coalition pilots or with our, iraqi forces an investigation will occur but ultimately it is the terrorist whose are using civilians to shield that are responsible for the deaths. >> dickerson: senator cotton thank you so much for being with us. >> thanks, john.

>> dickerson: for more on the investigation into possible ties between trump campaign officious and russia, we are joined now by the top democrat in the house, intelligence committee, california representative adam schiff. palo alto, congressman i want to start with something chairman nunes of the committee said. he suggested some private citizens had been unmasked as a part of a surveillance effort. if, in fact, that were true that would be a big deal, wouldn't it? >> well, it all depends, there are perfectly appropriate circumstances to unmask the names of people. in fact, that is done quite often, and the standard is whether the unmasking of those names is necessary to determine the significance of the intelligence. so unmasking is not at all unusual, the question is, was it done appropriately? and here are, is the problem, john, is none of us have seen what the chairman is talking about. this evidence was taken apparently direct he to the white house which creates another issue which of course it is associates involved in the trump campaign who are in part

subject of what we are investigating that is the bigger problem than the chairman's claim. certainly we want to oversee the minimization process and make sure they are operating correctly but w we can't have a credible investigation if one of the members, indeed the chairman takes all of the information he has seen to the white house and doesn't chair it with his own committee. >> dickerson: so he has not shared that with you, including his claim that the president him elf when he was a candidate was1 caught in the surveillance; is that right? >> yes. he hasn't shared with me and to my knowledge, you can check with my colleague mr. gowdy, i don't think he chaired shared it with nick anyone in the committee so we are in the dark on this and i think we suffered two serious blows to the integrity of the investigation this week, one, with that unilateral rip to the white house, but the other with a cancellation of an open hearing that was scheduled for tuesday with directors clapper, brennan and sally yates, the former deputy attorney general. i think her testimony in particular would have shed a lot of light on the public on the

whole michael flynn chapter and perhaps that is something the white house didn't want to see. i can't otherwise account for why we would have this abrupt cancellation of a hearing that both the chair and i had committed to doing. >> dickerson: well, the chairman's argument is the cancellation of that hearing was necessary because he wanted to have other closed door testimony beforehand before having that next hearing. that seems like a reasonable idea. >> , you know, it certainly would be reasonable if that were the justification, but of course the one doesn't preclude the other. we have welcomed the return of any of the witnesses at closed session, but their testimony doesn't necessarily preclude us doing an open hearing that we had already agreed with, the witnesses were prepared to do, they were more than willing to do, so i really don't think that is the justification, indeed we got word they were trying to close the open hearing, even before they suggested an alternate hearing. >> dickerson: you suggested in a tweet that the chairman was trying to, quote, choke off public information, what evidence did you have for that? >> well, i think that the

hearing that we had on monday where the director of the fbi testified for the first time that there is an ongoing investigation of potential coordination between the trump campaign and the russians as well as the disclosure by the director that there was no factual basis for the president's accusation of wiretapping by his predecessor. i think that hearing went so poorly for the white house that there was a lot of pushback in doing a second open hearing. honestly, john, because the other explanations similar my don't make sense. we could always have directors comey and rogers come back at any time, there is no necessity of having them come back before the open hearing. i think that was merely an effort to camouflage the true object here which was the closure or the cancellation of the hearing with sally yates but let me just make -- yes. >> dickerson: i want to interrupt briefly, congressman, because basically what it sound like you are saying is the chairman of the committee is a tool of the white house he is investigating and if you have

are saying that how can the committee get its work done is. >> well, look, i think the chairman has to make a decision whether to act as a surrogate of the white house as he did during the campaign in the transition or to lead an i want and credible investigation. i hope he choose it is latter. the country really needs to have an independent, credible investigation in the house. and we had that up until and through monday, where i think that the house process went off the rails was with that a venture by the chairman to the white house. you simply can't run a credible investigation that way. i am going to do everything i can to get this back on track and i implore our chairman and the speaker to rededicate themselves to a serious and bipartisan investigation. we know that russia was involved in hacking our democracy. we know that the evidence or information is sufficient to warrant an fbi investigation of this. we are trying to do as much of this as we can in the public eye

transparently, obviously some of this will have to be done in closed session but it really demands both parties work together on this. we made every effort to do so but we need the chairmans, chairmen to decide that is whatt his object is as well. >> dickerson: congressman there has been a report from cnn wednesday night that the fbi was looking into collusion with the russians in the trump campaign in terms of spreading information about hillary clinton's campaign. do you have any information to back that up? >> i am not sure that i can comment on that. i can say that i think that the investigation that the director talk about at our monday hearing is justified. i think there is a sufficient basis for that investigation. not only to have been anybody indicated but for it to continue at this point. and i think that we owe it to the country to do this in a yes, ma'am credible way. i will make one final point, john, and that is i do think the events of this week call out the need for an independent commission quite separate and apart from what we do in congress. there are enough questions that

have now been called that have been raised where i think the establishment of that commission would if if the country a lot of confidence that at least one body was doing this in a way that was completely removed from any political considerations. >> dickerson: quickly, congressman, you have said there are circumstantial evidence of this connection and then you said you can't talk about it, isn't that what you are complaining about with the chairman of the committee he says there are things but not showing the evidence? >> no. my complaint with the chairman is taking whatever information he has to the white house when the white house is the subject in a way of the investigation. i wouldn't have any problem with the chairman saying he is concerned about whether minimization procedures are being followed and i don't have a concern with other members characterizing the evidence as they, have and many of them have said they think there is no evidence of collusion. my disagreement with those members is, i don't think that is accurate, and i feel an obligation to say so. >> dickerson: all right, congressman thank you so much for being with us and we will be back in a minute with a member of the republican member of the house intelligence committee, trey gowdy.

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>> dickerson:. >> joining us now is south carolina chairman trey gowdy he chaired the chairman on benghazi so he is no stranger into running into partisan politics when he runs an investigation. he joins us from greenville. i want to start with this question of unmasking that chairman nunes brought out, has he shown you any of what caused him to suggest that obama officials are doing surveillance, captured some trump campaign associates and then unmasked them in the process of investigating? >> he has not shown it to me, johns, i am vaguely familiar with it, no more, no less familiar with it than adam schiff is. i will just tell you this. my understand is chairman nunes briefed the commander in chief on matters unrelated to the russian investigation, so if that is big deal in washington, then we have sunk to a new low. >> dickerson: well, i guess congressman schiff would say, but the president is the one that is a part of this

investigation being done by the committee, so the chairman shouldn't be talking to him. >> well, then, let me repeat what i say. that chairman of house intel briefed the chairman in chief that has nothing to do with the russian investigation, so if the commander in chief cannot be briefed by the chairperson of the house intel committee on a matter that has nothing to do with the fbi investigation, then i don't know what they can talk about, john. >> dickerson: all right. so here is -- >> he is the commander in chief. >> dickerson: so if this is an issue outside of the one they are investigating at the moment in the committee and that you are investigating, should it then be taken out of this investigation? have a separate investigation on both the issues that chairman nunes has discovered this week and then also the one you are quite concerned about which is the leaks that have been in the paper, some of them potentially illegal, get that out of this question of russia to keep things from getting mixed the way they appear to have? >> well, they are separate, and i heard my friend from california mention that independent commission, thank

goodness we have one, it is called the fbi, the fbi has counterintelligence jurisdiction and they have criminal jurisdiction, and what we learned on monday, and it is about the only thing we learned on monday was that the fbi's investigating both. they are the world's premiere law enforcement agency, they are independent, you have limited men at the department of justice who have dedicated their careers to the blind pursuit of justice. it doesn't get anymore independent than that. so we have an independent entity investigating counterintelligence and allegations of potential criminality, let congress do its job which is provide oversight over the intelligence community. >> dickerson: do you have any sense of the schedule in which this new information that we have been talking about here, this question of unmasking, when you might have enough information to make a judgment about whether this is, in fact, something that was done improperly or whether as congressman schiff said this is just the normal procedures for going through unmasking? >> it is just one more reason to

bring director comey and rogers back on tuesday. it is incredibly important. adam is right, that adam is right that the incidental collection of u.s. persons happens. what i wish some of my friend over on the other side would be a little more outraged about is the political use of that unmasking, so i understand we collect u.s. citizens but we don't read about those u.s. citizens on the first page of "the new york times" and the "washington post". that admission to threatening the surveillance programs is also a felony. so i hope that we learn more about that on tuesday. all of this is important, john. every bit of it. russia is not our friend. they attacked our democracy. i want to investigate every fact that is related there to, but the felonious dissemination of classified information is the only thing we know for sure is a crime, and it would be nice if we showed the same level of interest in that. >> dickerson: let me ask you, you chaired a committee that got a lot of attention in the

papers. what is your sense of the health of this committee? we have seen dueling press conferences. there has been a lot of accusations and passionate aggression here, how healthy is this committee? >> i think it is fine. i actually think chairman nunes and ranking of, are fine and get along fine. i think what you learned on friday, because i heard the witnesses almost 100 times, john, say they could not answer the question in that setting and i want you and your viewers to ask themselves, why are we satisfied with every other facet of culture having serious investigations done confidentially, the grand jury, judges meeting with attorneys, police officers interviewing suspects, all of that is done confidentially, and we are more than satisfied with those investigations, and yet when it comes to congress, we think we ought to have a public hearing, 100 times those two witnesses said they could not answer the question in that setting. why in the hell would we go back to that setting if the witnesses can't answer the questions?

>> dickerson: all right. congressman gowdy we are going to give you the last word there, thank you so much for being with us and we will be back in a moment with some thoughts on the president and the presidency. stay with us. >> thank you. >>

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these are jobs that natural gas is helping make happen, all while reducing america's emissions. energy lives here. >> dickerson: president trump said president obama wiretapped trump tower. this week, the fbi director said there was no evidence of that. this wasn't just a fact check. it highlighted how lightly president trump treats the presidency. we have presidents and we have an office of the presidency. opponents respect the office even if they disagree with the occupant. presidents are criticized but the presidency is behind protective glass. that's why a president can come into office attacking his predecessor's policies but later celebrate the dedication of his predecessor's presidential library. it is why george w. bush prepared a smooth transition for barack obama and why president obama did the same for donald trump. once on the job, a president

also gains respect for the presidency because they learn as president trump did this week, that the job is harder than it appeared from the campaign trail. the historical continuity of the presidency is an heirloom and a tool. presidents gain stature by hugging those who came before them. donald trump visited andrew jackson's grave and compared himself to the seventh president who also spooked elites. these perks and protections are why presidents honor the presidency. i shall keep steadily in in view the limitations of my office said andrew jackson, break the limbs and you break the office. nevertheless, president trump compared his predecessor to nixon and mccarthy, called him sick and bad. to break glass like that, a president must have a good reason, and proof. president trump had no evidence and no higher purpose. tending the presidency is important for a disruptive president like donald trump because it showed people he

knows the line between renovating the office and demolishing it. you measure twice and cut once. 0 you don't cut without measuring at all. back in a moment. >>

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