>> dickerson: welcome back to "face the nation" we turn now to the white house director of legislative affairs. marc short. he is the liaison between administration and capitol hill. welcome to the broadcast. >> thanks for having me. dickerson: pick up with something that senator collins said about preexisting conditions. she said they're not guaranteed in this legislation. the president when we spoke to him in april said, this health care bill that pass will have a guarantee but this one doesn't. the president's okay with that? >> this one does, john, in fact the obamacare legislation required coverage of preexisting conditions this legislation does not change that. preexisting conditions continue to be covered. >> dickerson: critics of the bill say that's not the case. obamacare protection may exist, states can opt out. so they can apply for a waiver and then when they get that waiver the terms that they have to meet are really fuzzy.

people who were involved in health care know that because it's really hard and they're going to have to squeeze out a lot of money they will take the path of least existence, they will see less coverage and higher costs. >> john, this system no not working. everybody knows that having washington, d.c. is a central hub for this, it's failed. failed the american people and price are going out the roof. in arizona prices increased by 190% over four years in arizona -- in alaska by 203% of the last four years. to your question, we guarantee preexisting conditions continue to be covered. you're right that there is also an ability for states to apply for a waiver. but in that it's conditional for them showing how they will make preexisting conditions covered on affordable base. there's also federal dollars that are provided to help states to do that. but nobody can deny costs right now are going through the roof. >> dickerson: leaving aside the plenty of problems with the bill as people on both sides say but on this question of preexisting

conditions the analysis from ama from the aarp, from the medicaid directors, they look at it they say, what's going to happen is the language, if they can opt out if offers an adequate and affordable alternative, that that is a huge hole through which states will increase cost, lower coverage for the most. we're talking about the mowing vulnerable, people with pre-existing conditions. if i'm out there this is what senator collins was talking about there's no back stop here. there's no guarantee. some day down the road it's going to get worse and people would like some kind of surety, all they hear is vague words about affordable and adequate. >> john, the current system is unsustainable. medicaid dollars are going to go bankrupt, they are continuing to predict a 6 ears increase annually that this country cannot afford. it's no surprise special interests are opposed. the same special interests in trade associations went to bed with the obama administration to force obamacare on all americans, why?

force all americans have to have insurance whether you want it or not an individual mandate, all employers to force coverage all their employees. this is something this they like the current system they want the government to continue to give more dollars now they're asking for bill outs on csr payments. that's what they want. that's not what is working for the american people. we need to change the system. >> dickerson: but anybody with preexisting condition is not wrong to think that their cost might go up and coverage might decrease. >> they will continue to be guaranteed coverage, that's what we said. >> dickerson: but different from the coverage because of this opt out that -- >> the coverage they have now is not work can. the system is not working. coverage for millions of american is not working. last year seven million people chose to pay the penalty instead of get the terrible insurance offered. they don't want it those are people -- >> dickerson: healthy people. >> mix of people who were saying they would rather pay the penalty. >> dickerson: let me ask you about the president's push, he

spent 90 minutes in alabama talked about a wide variety of issues, why does the president who is a market who are has skills in that regard not go 90 minutes on the benefits and beauties and wonders. how hard he was working, list of people he's jaw boning, why he not out there selling this machine for all of its great merit? is it because there are not merits that he can sell to his voters? >> no, i think he actually is selling it, john. i they he has many calls with those senators who are on the fence. continued to make calls over the weekend. you saw his activity in the first go around. in reality, the whole graham-cassidy effort came apare first effort failed and lot of our voters are saying this isn't good enough you promised us for this. >> dickerson: here is president with has got -- on the phone i'm sure he's got talent but he's the rally guy. he's the 90 minutes whipping people up he's talking about the nfl. today, now the owners and teams and everybody is responding to the president who says something

on the nfl. isn't that totally getting in the way of your effort to fix this health care issues and get all republicans on board? >> no. the president is a huge asset to the effort on capitol hill. >> dickerson: but the nfl issue is a useful one in terms of health care? >> look, i think the nfl is an issue the president's made a case as we've talked about, there are coaches across this country, high school level who are personal lying and disciplined for asking their -- leading their players in prayer yet you see issue in the nfl with media champions those who are taking a knee to disrespect the american flag. the dichotomy that most americans can't understand for good reason. the president is raising attention to that. >> dickerson: but raised not the prayer issue but pointed out to players, you mentioned the prayer but he didn't -- >> he's making the case that many cases, there are generations of americans who have fought and died to protect our freedoms and fought and died for the red on that flag that represents blood and sacrifice by so many americans. what the president is doing is saying, this is not the

appropriate place to raise you're social activism. i think he's made the case. you have a first amendment right if you wish to protest the flag but owners have first amendment right to fire those players if they so choose. >> dickerson: marc short we'll have to leave it there. thanks for being with us. >> thanks for having me. dickerson: in the latest health care debates you probably heard the term regular order. john mccain said the lack of regular order is why he's not supporting the most recent bill. regular order is washington jargon but it basically means, doing things the agreed upon way. at the bank you expect the line you stand in to order the turns of those waiting for the teller. when you vanderbilt the dmv and the rules change each time, you feel a glowing rage. in congress regular order is process for tackling tough problems, studying them, applying expertise then arguing the issues on the merits without personal attacks. it's also a mindset for place where everyone has to work together the next day. it sets the conditions for

heated arguments, so everyone feels heard and respected. it ground debates in the values of the institution, fairness, equality, justice, which temper the passions of the moment. regular order doesn't always lead to compromise but compromise is less likely without it. regular order doesn't always mean less partisanship. partisan hot head can still hijack the public process. but without regular order, people get suspicious of the final product, losers feel cheated and invited to undermine the law. if laws are to be followed it's odd to pass them in a process that says the rules don't matt matter. but if voters want the compromise available through regular order they have to be patient, it's messy, slow and imprecise, it was designed that way. in most formal meetings if proceedings descend into chaos a participant can get things back on track by shouting "regular order." though people may not know the term, they have been calling for

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food as it should be. per roll bounty is more absorbent, so the roll can last 50% longer than the leading ordinary brand. so you get more "life" per roll. bounty the quicker picker upper. just now bring in dr. atul gawande of the new yorker who asks is health care a right in this week's issue of the magazine. welcome. you for this piece went back home to report on health carey? >> so, back home for me is in southeastern ohio, i wept back home because this is a territory that i grew up in the blue dot

athens ohio. my friend, i went spoke to them to ask them with they thought do they believe health care is a right. a surprising number said, no. even friends who had been bankrupted by health care cost because they believed that it was really a way to ask them to pay more for other people while they couldn't afford their health care cost. so they weren't hearing that it was a way to help them. >> dickerson: now, in the debate we're in in this moment, i just want to step back a minute, we're not even asking really that question, are we? over say graham-cassidy, that's just not being asked, is it? >> that's right. it's disconnected with the goals and the troubles that people have now. the criticisms on the show are legitimate. the people i talked to, friends who are still earning less than $20 an hour after 20 years on the job are spending half their paycheck in for taxes and paying for premium for crappy insurance

that's $3,000 deductible, $50 copay, meanwhile their taxes go to pay for someone who may not be working who has medicaid coverage that is better than anything they could dream of. no copace, no deductibles, no premiums. >> dickerson: the interesting thing to me was that they distrusted the government to solve this problem. but they also were strong supporters of medicare. understood perfectly well that it was a government program, the key thing that they saw was that medicare wasn't about a right, it was about the idea that we all contribute, we all pay our taxes and we all benefit and benefit fairly and right now for what we see is everybody gets an astonishingly different deal for something as important as their health care. >> dickerson: essentially the difference is medicare no free loaders because everybody has to pitch in they're worried about the free loader problem. >> that's right. everybody is in the same deal. the broken part of the system, the thing that we don't talk about is that the link that we

have made, that you get your health care through work is breaking. that link is breaking because it leads to very different deals we have to create all these systems, what the f you're disabled, small business can't afford it, your employer doesn't cover you, self employed. second reason it's breaking, 94% of net job growth in the last decade is in jobs that are -- that don't come with health benefits, freelancers and temporary workers, independent contractors. >> dickerson: given the reporting you've done and these differing views, even people who have been bankrupted had to scratch for five years to get back on the right side of an illness, is there a solution, a bridge that you found between the different groups? >> well, the fact that people see in medicare their values being enacted, a pathway forwa forward. the critical parts of it is building trust in order for that bridge to get there. so what people don't talk about, what one person says to me the

left doesn't talk about the cost, the right doesn't talk about the need. none of them want to talk, how do we transition to getting there. there are approaches, you can ds making sure that outside of work you can get coverage through medicare. you have state like nevada that passed but the governor vtoed medicaid. or you can say, health care.gov make that the open system that we can all buy in to, pay in to and share equally getting that kind of coverage. we have to stabilize, agree with both republican and democratic view, that you need bipartisan effort to stabilize the current system. now it's actually straight forward ways to do that in the senate, alexander and patty murray effort to make that happen is a critical first step. then you have to build and do the thing we're not doing now, message i heard from people is that, the public debate and also the public hearing process around solutions like allowing

buy in or transitioning to allow states to make this passageway. >> dickerson: help people understand what stabilize means for the affordable care act they may not understand what that means and why that is important. >> yeah. all the thing that people are pointing to right now, premiums are going up, why are they going up? because the insurers are uncertain, is the government going to enforce the mandate? is there going to be subsidies to ensure that people who captain afford their deductibles that they aren't bankrupted along the way. those basic components haven't been nailed down. there's total uncertainty what is supposed to happen. providing some certainty brings the premiums down. there are also programs that people have tried everywhere from minnesota to alaska that have allowed for re-insurance plans that allow for very high cost patients to not end up driving up the costs of a single insurer. so, there's some technical approaches that allow to you smooth out the cost and

stabilize where we are now. clearly though, the only the beginning pathway to being able to open up the system that deals with the fact that job base coverage is breaking. >> dickerson: final question, you've mentioned a lot of different states, minnesota, nevada, you've written about different efforts in wisconsin, this is the republican argument that the federalism let 50 experiments bloom and let that work so it sound like there's nothing that that may be a good approach. >> there's nothing inherently wrong with that. i look at this, i'm a surgeon, i have mainly a cancer practice. before reform, one in ten of my patients were uninsured and then after they had their diagnose they now ran into having preexisting condition exclusions. i since reform have seen no patients who face that problem any more. zero. now, any of the approaches that we have whether we want to push it to the states or want to -- say federal government is going to get out of their

responsibility but hold the states to certain standard, or that we're going to try to open up medicare more widely. any of those approaches need to ensure that we are clear about line around core value of people we're talking about. what are the cost to everybody. are we sharing in the burden equally and then how are we. si we are at risk in every machine that has come forward right now, we end up making people in the system worse off in the name of supposedly making it better. >> dickerson: atul gawande, thank you so much for being with us, we'll be back in a moment with our panel.

>> dickerson: joaning us now for some political analysis, cbs news senior foreign affairs and white house correspondent margaret brennan. and "washington post" white house reporter david nakamura. david, let me start with you. we'll start with nfl, it's sunday. is president trump being president trump what do you make of this? >> he picks fights with a lot of people but we saw he did this in his speech in alabama where reportedly down there to endorse the senate candidate but got a great rise from the audience.

what struck me it's one thing he picks a fight with nfl over colin kaepernick which send certain signal then amplifies that by attacking steph curry i was looking at the sales of jerseys, the most popular player in the nba when it comes to sales of jerseys this is player who has broad support. now he's sort of expanded that much broadly you see the backlash now you have even the owners of the teams that have supported trump like robert kraft of the patriots. it's not clear what trump's end game here is picking this fight. >> dickerson: there may not be an end game, the crowd went wild. sees the protest as anti-patriotic as marc short articulated here. is this just -- is this the way donald trump is, he could have spent some time talking about health care, he didn't, he could have talked about taxes he did in and out neither way to sells

those programs. where do you think this goes next? >> well, it was a heck of a kick off. the president clearly thinks in some way rhetorically this works for him. perhaps because it diverts attention from two very tough fights and his recent frustration with capitol hill. that may be something that resonates but also in some ways reopens some of those questions, concerns and analysis of what the president actually meant back during the charlottesville controversy. why reopen some of those questions, why have people compare, well you didn't criticize tom brady when he said of the patriots when he said he wasn't coming to the white house why are you targeting some of these other players for raising concerns on that end. it is a distraction, it's one that is going to play in to not culture, people who don't follow the health care and tax reform they know who plays for the nba and nfl they're going to care about this. >> dickerson: david, speaking of health care, where does this

fit, as margaret mentioned supposed to be moving into fashion reform this is now kind of on a tender situation with two republicans said they won't support it, susan collins sounded like she wasn't going to support it. what happens is week? >> healthcare is like a third round that's going to go down, really appears. that is going to put all the more pressure on republicans and this president who is really wanting a win somewhere, somehow to make something happen. we've started see details of tax row form come out. he promise understand is not going to be a tax cut for the rich but we're hearing about the top rates coming down at the same time doubling the standard exemption for the middle class. that is something that i think republicans and the white house and congress is united on for republican leadership. the question now is, whether he can do it. if not whether he turns democrats or immigration. >> you do have the white house quiet leaking they're not going to get to 15% corporate tax rate that the president campaigned ongoing to be higher in part because they're dealing with a

different mathematical set here because didn't get health care done. >> dickerson: before we move on to international affairs, what is going to happen with daca, i'm thinking you have the health care fight, tax fight those will be partisan. but a week ago we were talking about two weeks in a row, the deals with democratic leaders one of them was on deferred action for childhood arrivals, what's happening with that deal? >> we haven't heard much to be quite honest with you, but you're right. while senator mccain talk about returning to regular order and hope of getting bipartisanship on certain issu issues, a brief shining hope for a moment there with the president brokering this deal with chuck schumer and nancy pelosi not only keeping the government open and funded but the promise of getting this immigration reform done. that doesn't seem to be the signal being sent right now on health care just yet. it's not clear on something that is this iconic in many ways to those on the left as obamacare

whether they are willing, this particular issue to reach across the aisle and fix a system that even president obama said needed some improvement. >> dickerson: david, on tax, does the republicans will be back in line, though, because mcconnell, ryan and president pretty much in the same place, right? >> absolutely. that is a chance for the white house to try to work with the leadership, one thing that's been said about the health care debate that white house is not providing leadership, not taken authorship of some of the key tenants of this. with tax reform seeing more of that, of course as margaret said the president throughout this 15% corporate tax rate not going to get there now being floated it could be 20, still be a significant reduction. i think the white house will move all heaven and earth to get there. >> dickerson: margaret, united nations this week, president challenged the north korean leader in pretty tough language, was that a strategic plan or was that an audible by the president, where do things stand on north korea. >> general kelly not succeeded

in turning off cable news while he is changing information flow to the president, the president was age to brand this in his words as sort of a rocket man on a suicide mission. that was the phrase that got repeated over and over. that was a take away from the speech. the take away was not the united states is open to diplomacy to settle this issue, for the president's words, did undercut the message that secretary of state has been trying to push here which is, we're actually not trying to take you out of power. we're actually in the trying to overthrow your regime you shouldn't fear sitting down at the table with us. the president sent a very different "or else" kind erve united nations which is supposed to be institution aimed at peace building. >> they would totally detroy north korea. >> that was not intended had been in and out of the speech the rocket man reference. focus on diplomacy. >> president said, still demanding the complete the

nuclearization as prerequisite, something that the north korean regime made clear they're not going to agree to ahead of any kind of talks j iran. give me whether you thoughts about that? >> this meeting first time you had iranian and high level u.s. officials, rex tillerson and nicki haley with the iranian officials did not have any proposal on what the president is to do which street decertify iran's compliance with the nuclear deal. they listed their complaints but have not prepared a pathway out i'm told the white house is looking at how to deal with congress and to you to manage the fall out here because congress could reinstitute sanctions if the president follows through on that threat to decertify next month. a lot of worried partners in this deal who are saying, china is one of these partners are you going to break your deal with china and ask them to help you. >> dickerson: thanks to both of you. we'll be back in a moment.

>> dickerson: as we say goodbye this week a personal note. our "face the nation" family is grieving along with our colleagues kim and greg schafer for the loss of their son mason. we all knew mason, hi parents worked on this broadcast for cbs for more than 30 years. mom as producer editor and dad our lead audio man. our hearts and thoughts and prayers are with them and their daughter, kera, mason was 22. at at&t, we believe in access. the opportunity for everyone to explore a digital world. connecting with the things that matter most. and because nothing keeps us more connected than the internet, we've created access from at&t. california households with at least one resident who receives snap or ssi benefits

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