prep welcome back to "face the nation" i'm margaret brennan. we'll continue our conversation now with national security panelist fran townsend, michael morell and victoria nuland. mike, pick up the thought you left us on. if the democrats release the memo will cause further damage? >> so, when source provide our government with sensitive information, foreign governments provide us with sensitive information, expect us to protect it. and when they see that information being released, when they see the names of source in documents being released, it gives them pause about whether they should continue to do that or not. i think the other really important point here, margaret, is that what happened here underscores the partisanship and the dysfunction of a very important committee in congress. and that does not serve congress well, it doesn't serve the

intelligence community or the country well. >> brennan: congress than gowdy said they now have concern about the state department, you surfed there until recently, you know what he is talking about? >> i lock forward to hear hang he is talking about. i will tell you that during the cries in 2014-15 chris steele had a number of commercial clients who were asking him for reports on what was going on in russia, what was going on in ukraine and between them. chris had a prepared at the state department and he offered us that reporting free so that we could also benefit from it. it was one of hundred of sources that we were using to try to understand what was going on. then in the middle of july when he was doing this other work and became concerned -- >> brennan: the dossier. >> the dossier, he passed to the four pages of short points of what he was finding and our immediate reaction to that was,

this is not in our purview. this need to go to the fbi if there's any concern here that one candidate or the election as a whole might be influenced by the russian federation, that's something for the fbi to investigate. that was our reaction when we saw this. it's not -- we can't evaluate this. frankly, if every member of the campaign who the russians tried to approach and tried to influence had gone to the fbi as well, might not be in the mess we're in today. >> brennan: when it comes to this memo, senator john mccain said it only vert vladimir putin's purposes, is he right? >> he's absolutely right. what's most important is that we investigate what happened in the past, but even more importantly that we work together, the house, the senate intelligence committees, the executive branch, our technology companies, to deter future

russian efforts to influence u.s. politics and election. we should be working on the strategy that will blunt this, expose it. some of our european partners have done better already than we have at this. in the french election, immediately expose had russia was doing to their public to, their medium and that sunshine served as a disinfectant. and blunted the russian's ability to influence that election. that's what we should be doing here and when we fight with each other, when we question our fundamental institution, that is great day for vladimir putin. >> just add one point, victoria is absolutely right. we have not deterred putin, one of the consequence is other countries are getting into the business of womenizing social media, the turks are now doing this, they're trying to influence this is going to spread because we have failed

to deter put. >> brennan: why i asked you should americans be concern of undermining u.s. institution. lack of trust now for the fbi. how do you reassure people? >> these are career public servants, you may disagree as trey gowdy says with a particular decision like rosenstein made. but these are thousands of people devoted decades to public service to protecting us from this sort of influence. and in multiple legal checks including let's remember, these packages for the fisa surveillance went to independent article iii judges. not one. this went to the court four times and the judges do ask questions, it is secret because proceedings are classified as mike points out. the judges also ask for additional information, especially in the case where the dossier was foot noted, it would have been drawn to the judges' attention. these public servants care about getting to the bottom and the

facts without fear or favor of politics, oftentimes, legally prohibit from political activity and none of them engage in it. it really is about the facts of the investigation to protect the american people. >> brennan: from your perspective the fact that carter page has been surveyed going back to 2013, was enough to justify use of this dossier? >> you can take the dossier, based on what we know, i disagree, they probably had enough to establish probable cause without it. if you were going to include it did did the right thing by caveating it in the footnote even if he disagrees with how details it was. >> brennan: bigger picture, when you look at the trump administration policy on russia, it's been harder line in terms of promising weapons to ukraine, perhaps more nuclear development in the latest gesture towards countering russia's nuclear development and breaking some of

our treaties, have you been surprised by their policies so far? are you seeing any deterrence? >> i think in the first instance our democracy is working with regard to russia, you remember that there were at the beginning of 2017 lots of noise out of the administration about lifting are the ukraine sanction before we got into a negotiation and without any leverage. it was the congress that insisted that they stay in place and be used to try to negotiate the russians out of ukraine which is what they were put on to begin with. yes, i think it's very important that we now have the national security advisor, the secretary of state, the head of the cia the secretary of defense all saying that russia is a real problem and that we need to contain and deter, that's what the national security strategy says. but -- it's going to take presidential leadership for us to unite this government and create a real strategy, carrots

and sticks to get back on a better path with russia. we ought to be looking at doing that as soon as the russian election are over in march. >> brennan: victoria, thank you very much. mike, fran, good to talk to you. we'll be right back with our political panel. so, that goal you've been saving for,

you can do it. we can do this. at fidelity, our online planning tools are clear and straightforward while saving for the things you want to do today. -whoo! prep we're back. julie pace is washington bureau chief of the associated press. jamelle bouie chief political correspondent for slate.

molly ball national correspondent and ben domenech founder and publisher of the federal list. molly, start off with you. does anyone remember that because it seems like this memo has just dominated everything in washington. >> it does feel like a lifetime ago. it's been a real shame for president and his supporters because the reviews of the state of the union were quite positive. in fact there's been a lot of good news for the president outside of this investigation. but i think we have seen that the president in particular message discipline is not his strong suit. being quiet about things for him not to talk about is not his strong suit. it was republicans that made the memo thing. so they're the ones who put this out there that ended up being -- really over had doughing everything else. i do think the state of the union was important and it matters that it was generally

seen as a good performance by the president. but this herky-jerky news cycle in the last flee years just means that nothing makes lasting impression. >> brennan: ben, can republicans get the message back? >> i think in this case there are two different messages going on. one i think country is paying a lot of attention to the economic news that they have add over the coast of the past couple of months, seen republicans advantage in the election improve compared to what it was in december. similarly president's approval rating picked up in number of different measures that's what the american people were focused on. i view this memo story as inside washington story for the most part. i do want to circle back to your prior panel because you had couple of people on there who are willing to defend the intelligence community, hook line and zipper. i think that is actually some of the story that is just beginning in terms of the consequence of this memo's release. you're going to see additional transparency on a number of things, going to see additional

leaks on number of fronts. i think that this is only the beginning of back and forth that is going to result in lot of questions being raised about fisa process that has been frankly controversial for quite some time. >> brennan: just reauthorized. >> that is going to come up again in terms of questions that people have about that process. and what people knew about what was going on. fact is that we're talking about not the whole of the fbi or intelligence community obviously, but ten years ago it was fun to see peter who has been patriot act number one fan raking james comey over the coals and and adam schiff was calling for dramatic increase in transparency on the part of fisa on the opposite side saying the release of this memo was irresponsible. >> brennan: you see that kind of criticism within republican party? >> i think things have flipped just so many things. they flipped on their head. you see lot of people criticizing fbi who have been defenders, i don't think that's

going to stop any time soon. >> brennan: there's a lot to dig in on that. we've got news to continue to tune in to. but i wouldn't ask you, julie, we have a deadline again. are we going to see a government funding shut down februaryth? >> it doesn't feel like there's an appetite for a shut down this week. that being said, congress can move fast when it wants to particularly slow when they get into these gridlock moments. i think that you're seeing democrats who really look to the last shut down deadline as an opportunity to push forward on immigration to, try to make a deal on daca, recognizing that even though the base is energized by that, strategically they don't have a lot of leverage on capitol hill right now to tie these issues together. where we're going to see them split apart this he can week if possible just get another short-term spending bill, take this town margin, this is part of the frustration that you hear from americans but also lot of members right now. they can't even do basic things.

we could be heading into another short-term, that is have lot of people frustrate but that's where we are this week. >> during your interview with congressman gowdy you asked why he was leaving congress. just as viewer, it feels like a terrible job. for the past year and a half it has been difficult to move forward on anything in congress, been difficult to legislate, difficult to accomplish anything. this is a result of lot of moving factors, but the overall conclusion you have to draw from what's happened in coming guess over the last year or so is that who wouldn't want to be there, who would want to spend years of their life working through the smog. >> brennan: what does that mean for the dreamers that the president has now said he'd be willing to give some sort of protection to in a future immigration deal. >> my hunch, too, if you go back to administration's immigration

policy less about mass deportation, just isn't feasible more about creating fear of deportation for newer and larger groups of undocumented immigrants. pulling back daca does that, pulling back temporary protection status does that, in the absence of any sort of deal on immigration, my hunch is that the administration will continue forward with this approach. allowing daca recipients to remain in this limbo state where they are. and given that the sort of immigration policy drivers within the administration want this, have no problem with, i find it hard to imagine that the president will be that broken up if congress can't tomorrow to a deal. >> brennan: it is creating tremendous uncertainty to have a march 35th deadline but that -- about whether that deadline is hard because there have been some court action.

you have hundred of thousands of people right now who are in this system who have received these protection who have come forward hundreds of thousands more who chose not to come forward but could if congress acted. part of the reason that this debate is so fraught because we're talking about real people's lives. even though it gets tied up in politics, real people who lived here for quite some time who don't know if they will be able to stay. >> brennan: one thing we have seen on the part of congress, were sanctions on russia the president didn't act on this this week, should we stay tuned? or are they not coming? >> it's unclear whether they're coming or not. there is a lot of pressure on this administration to take some tough action on russia. they have continuously chosen to balk when some of these deadlines have come up. and that's what lead to a lot of the questions around this investigation, when the president often has a chance to look tough on russia, take some tough action, he doesn't. >> brennan: i wouldn't ask

you, molly, about some of the -- come out of the vice president's office, he was unusually aggressive, picking a fight with joe man chen, senator that has tried to work with in the past, they need them oop what is he trying to do? >> i don't know. there was quite a bit of befuddlement why he chose to take that particular shot. mnanchin will run for reelection to the great relief of the democratic caucus, because he is seen as basically only democrat who stands any kind of chance of keeping the senate seat in west virginia. and pence's strategy for the most part as vice president has been to act presidential. to do the kinds of very message controlled and ceremonial things that the president often doesn't do, and to send the signals of calm and normalality that the

empty often doesn't do, it was interesting to see him go out on a limb like this. normally the vice president's office is sort of the eye of the storm. >> brennan: ben, when you come and look at the numbers right now as we're saying, they need a few friendly democrats. but short of that they're seeing lot of republicans right now leave, trey gowdy just the latest to announce that he's departing. what is going on and should democrats actually be heartened by this or what? >> i think that jamelle is correct when he says that the simplest explanation is that congress isn't a fun place to work these days. you're seeing number of different factors going on there. part of it is feeling like we finely gotten into this majority position, finally have the white house, we're uncapable of delivering on any of the things that we promise to our constituents. part of it, too, is just that political upheaval that we've gone through in the past couple of years is challenging a number of figures who don't know how to have gait the new scenarios. frankly are worried about primary challenges, more

populous republicans. one of the more interesting developments this past week was the sort of stories thrown out by those close to mitch mcconnell that one reply juan who is coming back it seems, mitt romney, would be potentially candidate to run the nrsc this sets up scenario where mcconnell is being smart by putting him in that position, recognizing that romney is one of the few republicans perhaps the only one who could challenge him for leadership should that sort of situation arise. but it's also kind of a story about what we're going to see in the coming years, which s a continued amount of tension between this congress and the white house on a number of different fronts because of the differences between the political constituencies that back these different figures. >> brennan: jamelle, are we getting ahead of ourselves trying to read ahead to what is happening in 201? >> i don't think so. >> brennan: who wants the job you say? >> what's clear is that some of the meme who want the job are

energized democrats, are women, who are come forward to run in place where democrats have not been running competitively in order to strike a blow against the trump administration. i think that story which is developing and ongoing is one reason to be -- have an eye on this november beyond all the other imagination. if those candidates succeed, a change in the competition of congress and change in the way the energy and democratic party is coming from. >> brennan: thanks to all of you. helping us to handicap what is ahead we'll be back in a moment.

prep joke us now is steve coll staff writer at "the new yorker" and deep of the club graduate school of journalism. the cia and america secret wars in afghanistan and pakistan. what with. >> covert action arm of pakistani intelligence, main service called interservice intelligence, rhode island cia worked with them during the 19 0s to smuggle guns and money

to the afghan rebels who were fighting in the soviet occupation. after 2001 as we tried to restore constitutional democracy to afghanistan, isi fostered the revival of the taliban ended up creating the mess that we're in now. >> brennan: there's a rope you picked that theme for the rest of the book. what's happening right now you've seen some terrible terrorist attacks over the mast two weeks in afghanistan. what is driving the violence right now? >> it's been a rough couple of years, there are groups based in pakistan that have continually carried out mass casualty attacks inca bull in order to unsettle the government. the trump administration has changed policy toward pakistan, us suspended aid, some speculation that maybe terrible attacks are retaliation for that, a symboling prep is that real? >> it's possible. isi has record of carrying out

mass casualty attacks in order to send a signal about where the war is going and their interest. also possible that these are just terrorist attacks of the type we've been seeing too often. >> brennan: now the president tweeted that he was going to be doing something about the aid you just mentioned, they sent $900,000 million, pakistan has given us nothing but lies and deceit. does he have clear eyes than past presidents who have been more careful in their language. >> i can understand the frustration about pakistan's conduct. they have been a partner over the last ten years has carried out arrest of important al qaeda leaders, even while suckering the taliban's revival, it's a complicated picture. in the history of imposing sanctions to try to change conduct not very happy one, doesn't stepped to work and reaction to the latest pressure has just been another kind of response of deep nationalism and defines of the united states. problem is our leverage in

pakistan not what it used to be. may never have been enough to change where their interests lie in afghanistan but right now, park stan's most important ally by far is china, china has had pakistan's back through many episodes of this type of war. >> brennan: perhaps can offset whatever the u.s. may be pulling back. >> and then some, yeah. >> brennan: presidents bush, obama now trump have all wanted to draw down then realize they needed to recommit to this war in afghanistan. i was just there in december with the vice president said we're going to stay until the last terrorist. is this a forever war? >> it's looking like it. we keep doing the same things and expecting different results. our war aims to muddle since the fall of the call ban we haven't been able to align our resource and capabilities with the goals that we're trying to achieve. and so we, for example, we often say of the general, is that lead the war, we can't find a military solution against the taliban i think it was david

petraeus who said you can't capture and kill your way out of industrial strength insurgency. >> brennan: the president said, too early to talk. >> we keep prioritizing military action even as we acknowledge that it's not likely to end the war. i do fear that the latest turn in policy is really not much of a departure from what the bush administration and obama administration struggled with. >> brennan: is it over simplifying to compare this to vietnam? >> not really. that ken burns' documentary came out in fall after spending five to ten years on this would be, it was sad. so much repetition of the pattern in vietnam fighting for honor and failing to let the facts guide where the war is really going. of course they're very different countries, very different times in history and american people have supported this war more than they did in vietnam. so that's allowed governments one after another to continue it. from are parallels.

>> brennan: steve coll thank you very much. well worth a read. thank you for coming. we will be right back [ click, keyboard clacking ] [ click, keyboard clacking ] [ keyboard clacking ] [ click, keyboard clacking ] ♪ good questions lead to good answers. our advisors can help you find both.

talk to one today and see why we're bullish on the future. yours. >> dr. stanley: remember this: cannot change the laws of god. when he has visited you in some form of adversity and he brings you through that, that's like he has increased the strength of

the foundation of your life and your faith in him. [music] >> brennan: that's it for us today. thanks for watching "face the nation." i'm margaret brennan. captioning sponsored by cbs captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org - [announcer] the following is a sponsored presentation

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