captioning sponsored by cbs >> brennan: today on "face the nation." it is easter sunday brought high drama to washington as he headed for vacation thursday, president trump announced an unexpected major change in u.s. military policy. >> very soon, let the other people take care of it now. very soon. very soon we're coming. >> brennan: as president national security team scrambled to respond the white house was still doing with the fall out from yet another high profile firing, veterans affairs secretary david shulkin is out and the president's pick to replace him dr. ronnie jackson has come under immediate scrutiny for his qualifications and his famously glowing review of mr. trump's health earlier this year. >> there were protests last night in california over the

police shooting of stephon clark an unarmed black man that left one protester injured by a sheriff's vehicle. we'll sit down this morning with two south carolina republicans, tim scott and congressman trey gowdy to talk about new their book "unfiled" which focuses on be the divide. tension between u.s. and russia escalates we'll also weigh in on special counsel into election meddling. bernie sandsers also joins us to discuss the future of the veterans administration and growing questions around epa administrator scott pruitt. our political panel will round up the news of the week, what the conversations with the united nations top official on refugees about the global crisis of millions given from their homes by war and familiar in it all starts now on "face the nation." good morning, welcome to face the make i'm margaret brennan.

we begin today with two congressional republicans from south carolina, senator tim scott and representative trey gowdy. their new book "unified" tells the story of their close friendship and their home to heal divided country. welcome to both of you, gentlemen. >> thank you. >> i want to talk to you both about why you wrote the book, why you did it together but also ask about some of the news of the moment. the special counsel did reveal this week from trump campaign official, rick gatess a cooperating witness knowingly had communications on more than one occasion during the campaign with a person the fbi believes had active ties to russian intelligence. congressman, as former prosecute hear does this say to you? >> it says that i'm glad we have bob mueller. i'm glad we have an independent, congress has proven itself incapable of conducting serious investigations and our best hop- >> brennan: your own house intelligence? >> absolutely. not just house intelligence.

congressional investigations leak like the gossip girls, the. i would be telling you that if i were staying in congress, they're just not serious. serious investigations don't leak. serious investigations don't make up their mind first and then go in search of the evidence to validate. >> brennan: did your committee do that in clearing any collusion? >> i think adam schiff in march of 2017 he had evidence more than circumstantial but not direct and by the way, there is no body of evidence that's more than circumstantial. but he said he had it of collusion we've been waiting for over a month -- for over a year now for him to produce that evidence. that is not serious and i'm hoping that either the senate investigation or mueller will be more objective. >> brennan: senator, the person tied to russian intelligence

that we're talking about did work with trump campaign chairman paul manafort. you've been on record in the past saying that trump should not pardon michael flynn. do you view paul manafort differently? >> i do not. i think it's important that the white house be clear on this poes as relates to not treating either person differently. fact of the matter is keeping the pardon off the table is necessary part of the process. i would be disappointed if president trump were to pardon either one of these individuals. the good news is that the mueller investigation continues, better news is that the public will have as much information as necessary to draw clear conclusions. and today it only reinforces why it's important for us to make sure that the investigation continues until it gets to the end. i hope we get whether sooner than later, reality is, more information we find outed the more confident the american people will be in who we are as a nation. >> does that mean you would support legislation to protect bob muler from being fired? >> i don't know that we need legislation to move forward.

i don't know that there's a single senator that would come out in favor of stopping the investigation going forward. >> brennan: senator you are on the armed services committee i want to ask you a bit about what we've heard from the president, he's been floating this idea of asking to use pentagon funding to pay for this border wall. is that lawful? >> well, it would take act of congress to make sure that we prioritize and reality is as commander in chief he can certainly send signals to secretary mattis, have conversation with congress about where dollars should be spent. we're providing more money to the military than we have very long time, more than a decade. unfortunate reality is that the priorities of the dod have already been set. however, our southern board ser very poros, more folks came through that did not come from mexico. it is certainly a national security issue, i think homeland

so far is place that we should find resources for building the wall not necessarily the dod but when it comes to before my committee make sure that we have enough information. >> brennan: congress would need to weigh in to reprogramming those funds that's not something executive authority i want to ask you about this book that you wrote. why did you write this? >> i think he has a compelling life narrative, i find it inspirational from the moment we became friends. i think -- story how he got where he is is a story of hope that our whole country will benefit from. i think contrast is good, i think conflict is debilitating, i think we're in a dangerous time in our history in terms of political discourse. i think most americans want most of the same things out of life. we just have a tendency to focus on the things that we don't agree on as opposed to those that we do. but i think there's a hunger and yearning for unity, if you can

find it with a handsome bald headed guy from charleston and middle aged son of a doctor from the upstate south carolina, i think everyone can benefit from unlikely friendships. >> why it unlikely friendships? >> we were raised very differently. we have different perspectives, we come down very differently on a lot of the issues. i think about, a fella from a doctor's house, i think about the challenges of race in our state we have a very provocative history in south carolina. the truth is that after the 2015 church shooting i found myself turning to a white guy in the aftermath. it became clear to me that there is a chance to bridge real gaps in this country. and if that was an example of one real bridging of a gap after

a racially motivated shoot knowledge in charleston, south carolina, led me to turn to a white guy that i did not know before i came to congress. are there lessons within this friendship that can help our nation, that seems to be so polarized and such conflict mired in challenges, sometimes heading to tribalism. if there's a way to bridge that gap can we and should we tell that story. i think we can, i think we should and we did. >> brennan: what did you think when i got that phone call that night of the shooting in charleston? >> just what tim said. we have a provocative history in our state when it comes to race. my first thought was a spiritual thought. god, how could you let nine people be murdered when all they wanted to do was go learn about you. and then what it would mean to a black man to know that they were murdered simply because of the

color of their skin. just kind of a -- oh, lord, legals don't go here again in south carolina. the beautiful part was his intention was to start a race war in our state and it had exactly the opposite affect. >> brennan: you've talked a lot about the incident in charleston that sort of inspiring you to sit down and issue this call for action. what are you asking the public for in this book? >> i think if you look at the polarization that exists in this country, we have to find a path back to being one nation. i found that path through a horrific church shooting that provided me a chance to reflect on progress and pain. my family, my grandfather who as unable to drink from the same water fountain for the vast majority of his life. unable to go to a restaurant. walk on the same sidewalk. could not finish school beyond third grade.

for me to live out a part of his american dream, to be able to converse and to challenge other folks and then in the aftermath of a church shooting, think about all that history in my family, to turn to trey was a symbol of progress that i believe all things are possible in this great nation. i think it's perhaps one of the greatest national security issues we have in this country that if we allow the polarization to continue in this country, those outside of this country that want to bring harm will feast on the division in this country and create more polarization. the russians did that in the 2016 election. they focused on the opportunity to see discord, it makes us vulnerable. >> brennan: do you that i that donald trump and his administration deepened this divide, any signs of hope that they're hoping to bridge it? >> when i went to the president

after the charleston incident, he asked me, what could he do. as it relates to history. we found common position on legislative remedies that could help people in distressed communities. the opportunity zones that we're talking about throughout this country, the president said he would commit to supporting that legislation, he did, it's now law. now 50 million americans may see reasons to breathe hopefully about the future. because of that legislation will bring more resources into distressed communities. >> brennan: after charlottesville you said he is not a racist but racially insensitive. >> yes. >> brennan: you still believe? >> he's not a racist f. he racially insensitive. >> brennan: you haven't seen improvement in language or actions by the interest the justice department. >> i can't say whether or not the entire administration reflects his position. i will say that he has very positive on legislative remedi

remedies. i think if you follow the facts which you'll find that unemployment rates within the african american community as 6.9% hasn't been this low in almost two decades. hispanic communities hasn't been this low in almost two decades. fact is that the policy position of the administration is moving this country in the right direction economically. we still have to work on the tone and rhetoric. >> brennan: we're seeing protests about shooting of unarmed black man and question about he can says sieve force in the case of stephon clark. and this question at the white house was responded to with the answer, this is a local matter. do you think that these conversations need to be had at the federal level? do you wish that they were or is that not appropriate? >> it's a national conversation. i actually took the local matter to be maybe because i'm a prosecutor that it's a state crime, it's a local law enforcement matter from the criminal justice standpoint but it's a national conversation. tim knows my bias, i'll put that

word in quotes, is toward law enforcement as you would expect a prosecutor to be. i am not oblivious that there are bad police officers just like bad everything else. he has helped me remarkably. not just him but also other people of color in my life have helped me understand every interaction i've had with the police has been because i was speeding. i should have had interaction with them. i've never been stopped by capital police, i don't wear a member pin. he's been stopped wearing a member pin. i am naive to believe that my life experience covers everyone. i have no idea what he sees when he sees blue lights. i think he's benefited -- i know he has, he calls the widows of fallen police officers before i call them in south carolina. he gets the danger side of it, but also a black man that has had very different relationship

with law enforce. than i have. you ask, why write the book? so we can talk to one another find the things we have in common instead of racing to the conflict which is commercially successful and you get a lot of clicks, it's just destroying our country. >> brennan: we have to take a quick pause in the conversation. we'll be light back in a moment.

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people in your line of work, how divisive i am. yet i don't have a fractured relationship with a single solitary democrat that serves in the house. do conflict sells. it is much more commercially appealable to refer to something as hyper partisan or deeply devise sieve. the reality is, with in benghazi i handled that like a normal investigation. lots of other people were in colluding people in your -- with respect in your line of work. it's not interesting enough to simply find out how our folks were rescued from the annex. if it didn't involve her, folks weren't interested in it. out of a hundred witnesses one was named clinton. and out of all the hearings we had zero were about her e-mail but yet that's the narrative that's been printed. it's one reason i can't wait to be out of politics, frankly.

where the jury is a little more open-minded they haven't made up their minds yet. facts matter. there's a referee that can say, you know what, there's no evidentiary support for that whatsoever, in politics you can say it and get away with it. >> brennan: you know, do you talk in the book about benghazi investigation being personally difficult. >> it was terrible. >> brennan: you actually senator describe as probably the loneliness extended session of his life. >> let me just lay it out quickly, whether it's russia or benghazi, investigation, one thing that trey tried to do in both situations was go after the truth. not after hillary clinton and republicans were unhappy with that. even after the truth, democrats were unhappy because hillary clinton was attached to the conversation she had no choice but to be attached to it. it happened on her watch. but on the russia situation the fact of the matter is, if you listen to trey gowdy talk about how poorly the president's

lawyer represented his position, there's no question that if you're looking for a way to be partisan on the issue, you don't make those comments. >> brennan: referring to john dowd? >> if you're looking for the truth then you go where it leads. there's no doubt that if you look at the actual evidence on both of those situations, it is clear trey gowdy was looking for the truth. one of the reasons i talk about that in the book, benghazi story is because to watch the weight of the investigation on his face and shoulders and on that hair that is now whiter than snow, it is because he did not want to be a partisan. his objective was to be a prosecutor working for the truth and present the evidence to the american people and let that jury decide. >> brennan: in reading this book, it sounds -- it's clear the affects you have for each other and congressman, you seem very supportive of the senator

and him staying in washington though you say you're going back home. people are going to ask the question of whether you are going to make a run for office. i know you're not going to want to answer it, but congressman, should he run for president in 2020? >> i don't know about 2020. i've run in two republican primaries, talk about lonely. that's the loneliest feeling. >> brennan: you don't think that will happen for president trump? >> i don't think it's going to be tim scott. i would love him to run for president. whether it's 2024, whenever it fits his heart, but he has a cheery, optimistic brand of conservatism that i think our country would benefit from and quite frankly whether he won or not, our country would be better off hearing someone with his life story, the grandson of man who couldn't read. picked cotton. then he grew up to pick out a

seat in the united states house of representatives, that's a story i wish my fellow citizens could hear, whether he wins, i hope he runs. >> brennan: senator? >> i'm not even running for my home owner association presidency. at this point, i thank god i have the privilege serving the great people of south carolinand this great nation. i'm a kid that got a second chance. i almost flunked out of high school. my mother worked 16 hours a day to give me a reason to believe in this nation and having a great work ethic. i am blessed already to fulfill a part of the mission that i think got lord sent me to fulfill. and as long as i can i continue to work hard for the people, whatever the good lord has next for me i'm open to it. >> brennan: senator, congressman, thank you very much for sharing your story. just ahead vermont senator bernie sanders. trying your bes. along with diet and exercise, once-daily toujeo may help you

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>> brennan: we turn now to vermont independent senator bernie sanders. he joins us from burlington in his home state this morning. senator, the v.a. is largest health care system in this country, will you support dr. ronnie jackson as nominee? >> we know nothing about what dr. jackson stands for, what his vision is for the v.a. but margaret this is what i will tell you. what concerns me very much is that right now in washington we have a family called the koch, third wealthiest family in america, family prepared with few of their other billionaire friends to spend $400 million on the coming elections. they are now the most powerful political force in america, stronger than the democratic national committee for republican national committee. their view has been we have got to privatize and privatize. what dr. shulkin who trump just fired this week has told sus

that the reason for his firing is that he resisted privatization of the veterans administration. i work very closely with the major veterans organizations, american legion, the vfw, vietnam vets, all of the veterans organization. what they say is they want to strengthen the v.a. not dismember it, not privatize it. we will see what dr. jackson has to say. >> brennan: the white house says at this time they have no intent to privatize the v.a. do you know what the trump administration policy is? >> of course i do. they have been putting more and more money into private sector with v.a. money. i do not believe them on that issue. i think they are listening to the koch brothers, i this that i is a very bad idea. if you listen to veterans all across this country as i do, they will tell you, sure there are problems with the v.a. but by and large once they get into the system they are proud

of the quality that the -- quality care that the v.a. provides. the american legion just come out with a publickization which vigorously opposes a privatization. i do believe that the trump administration, no matter what they are now saying. i think they are working on behalf of the koch brothers. these are the guys. koch brothers who want to privatize everything. you have the trump administration that in their budget, the trump budget proposed $500 billion cuts in medicare, trillion dollars cuts in medicaid. secretary of education who doesn't believe in public education. >> brennan: on the issue of the v.a. you did last year vote for bill that allowed at least more leeway for veterans and doctors to decide whether they wanted to opt in for private care. it sounds like you are open to some private sector option here. >> there has always been private sector option. if you live in a rural community you don't want 75, 80 verdict

veterans to travel two hours to get a physical examination f. there is a v.a. facility in the country that is not treating veterans in a timely manner, allow them to go to the private sector. that is the case now. that has always been the case. but what the koch brothers want what i fear the trump administration wants is to rip that wide open to take -- we have $200 billion veterans budget, special corporate into that want big chunk we must not allow that to happen. >> brennan: have to take a quick break we'll talk to you on the other side of it. we'll be right back. you wouldn't accept an incomplete job

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♪ >> brennan: ahead this week cbs news will be commemorating the 50th anniversary of the assassination of civil rights icon dr. martin luther king with special coverage wednesday. we'll be right back with more from senator bernie sanders.

i am extremely proud of jackie, gaby and stephanie. we worked with pg&e to save energy because we wanted to help the school. they would put these signs on the door to let the teacher know you didn't cut off the light. the teachers, they would call us the energy patrol. so they would be like, here they come, turn off your lights! those three young ladies were teaching the whole school about energy efficiency. we actually saved $50,000. and that's just one school, two semesters, three girls.

together, we're building a better california. >> brennan: welcome back to nice "face the nation" i'm margaret brennan. we're back with vermont independent senator bernie sanders who is going to be asking some tough questions of that next nominee the v.a. secretary. the v.a. says average wait time at some facilities can be as long as a hundred days. president is not happy with the speed of reform there. what is the source of this problem? >> the v.a. is largest integrated health care system in the country. and as i said previously if you ask the veterans organizations they by and large think the v.a. is providing good quality care. margaret, there is a lot of attention paid to the v.a. because it's a government agen agency. but i got news for you people all over this country when they want to get to a doctor they need hospital care, they don't get in the very next day. i s