easter. easter i hello. on behalf of the arch diocese of san francisco welcome to mosaic. you will be watching this program shortly after easter. easter is a day many enjoy whether they observe it in a religious way or not. at easter spring has sprung. the world is green and the season is bright. of course at the heart of easter is a deep, dark drama with a glorious ending. first is the condemnation and execution of jesus of nazareth

and then his resurrection from the dead. these are central christian teachings and have been so from the beginning. what are we to think of the resurrection? why do we believe in it? is it difficult to come to that belief? what is it like to live in that belief? with us today to discuss the resurrection is a scholar, teacher, priest. after this brief break, please rejoin us to delve more deeply into the resurrection of christ.

hello. welcome to mosaic. with me is father john bottcher. thank you for joining us. you have a fantastic resume'. you have more abbreviations after your name than most people. he is a biblicist, a scholar of the body but a physicist and first and physicist.

you began, it says with a b.a. in physics at cal and worked in the semi conductor industry in palo alto. i think that was when you experienced the conversion to catholicism. can you tell us about that? >> actually it started in the last year of mistake at berkeley. i studied physics there with an idea to applied physics working on semi conductors and that sort of thing. i had statistics classes and so on about interpretation of data. i went on this hitch hiking trip. i had been raised catholic and then i drifted off in high school. six years later, i went hitch hiking out of berkeley like i did for recreation. three people on the brief hitch hiking trip talked to me about

jesus christ. i believe there is a god out there somewhere, maybe like the force, buddhist cosmic force, but i thought in my mind this is statistically significant. nobody in six years and then in 24 hours, three. so i thought i'd better go back over this. there might be something in this for me. so i went back out of curiosity and read the bible and looked for the first person they talked about, john the apostle. he was talking about the apocalypse but i didn't connect that except through john. then i started reading the gospel of john. it started with a poetic introduction. in the beginning it's the word, words with god and god was the world. i thought this is just like the eastern poetry i have been reading about cosmo. so i got absorbed in the story and that drew me into this person of christ that i had

never encountered before, just to read it for my inspiration. that sunk in and carried through until after graduation. i came to the conviction that this is a person unique in human history. >> in relation to jesus and also with the church. you went back to catholic liturgies. >> yes. after about three or four months of just reading the bible two, three, four times a day and praying, i felt god saying go back to church. i said which one? i wasn't necessarily attached to the catholic church destroyed. he brought me back to remember the exact morning i had left. i looked around and said i am not experiencing god here. i will be back when i do. he says, remember what you said? yes. i had a very good memory, still do. so i went to the nearest church. >> it drew you back into

practicing catholicism and reading your bible and apparently a vocation to the priesthood. >> that was some years downstream in a research lab ironically, they say the scientists slowly believe in god. in a research lab in palo alto, there were two bible studies weekly. apparently there had been a young man before me that had become a catholic priest. three of my friends from there became full time christian missionaries. so it's a hot bed for christian calling and ministry. >> these gentlemen are out of the semi conductor industry. >> yes, research, scientific environment. >> so you found your way into religion and priesthood and your priesthood seems to be a scholarly one and pastoral one. >> right. >> can you tell us what you do? >> at present i am working at

the newman center, pan grove, mailing address california. also working and teaching in the seminary, courses on the gospels. john. and another course on matthew, mark, luke. >> this is a catholic chaplain at a university. so you are acquainted with the ancient text. you are acquainted with today's young people. and you have some theological literary and scientific knowledge with which you are equipped. we have you here today to talk about the resurrection. was the resurrection a key part of your interest, your renewed interest in catholicism at the time? >> it became that. i would say before that was the passion of christ, the sufferings, event of his dying,

the way he went through that. there was a major impact that came when i was reading the gospel of john. i came to the way of the cross when he had his cross, john says taking his cross, he went from there. i sue the view of christ bloody with this crown of thorns carrying this cross. i looked on his face and saw this serene totally decisive face, that expression, that he didn't care what was happening. he wasn't worried, upset, afraid, angry. he was just determined. i thought at the moment this is god at work. this is divine. no man could live like that and love, move full forward to his own death. i thought this is god. it made that kind of impact. >> that's powerful. that was just the picture of

the passion, death, suffering, something we will experience, our death. he faced it like a man and as you say, like a god. next is the resurrection. after this brief break, please rejoin us and we will talk about the resurrection of jesus of nazareth.

good morning. welcome back. we are talking with father john bottcher about resurrection of jesus christ, a teaching central to the catholic faith. i will check with father but i believe it always has been from the very beginning of the writing of the catholic doctrines. st. paul in his early letter to the corinthians says if jesus did not rise from the dead our

faith is in vane, a lie, not true. so we need to know, believe that this is a historical fact that jesus did rise from the dead. paul seemed to. what can you tell us about that? >> there are a number of angles to approach the question. one is the physical evidence that remains of the passion itself to show he did die and then the resurrection. obviously the fact that we had an empty tomb, we believe the body is in heaven, was risen, made spiritual but corporal so touch able. but at the same time like on earth, we can't point to the body in the sense of bones and what remains. in a sense for catholics, that is already evidence because you think about all the saints. we have some pieces of their body. >> relics. >> we are into relics. the fact that we don't have relic for jesus or virgin mary,

that says something. if it were all production or a fantasy or an invention, they would have invented relics and said we have them here. more seriously, if we look at the intense focus of study from all kinds of angles, scientific, in the last few decades, the results are extremely intriguing if not convincing. for a number on the team, it was convincing enough to convert to the catholic faith. to anyone with interest, they're intriguing because there are so many powerful signs that point in pretty much the same direction. then there are strong signs that point otherwise like one of the later radio carbon datings was it was from 1350 something. there is all kinds of conflicting evidence. the scientific approach is look

at all the evidence and include it in any viable theory. you can't say well we are not going to pay attention to that and come up with a theory that ignores the data. a scientist has to deal with all the relevant data and explain or it's not a relevant theory. so far that hasn't happened, for the sides to explain all the data. to me, that's the state of science. it's a beautiful thing i think to intrigue and get people passionate about the argument, whether for or against, and work it out. that's what's happening. >> then there are philosophical questions true, a combination of things. one hears it is a myth that was invented later. but this teaching was clear from the very beginning of christianity. yes? will ever if you look at the early -- >> if you look at the early sources like luke and his acts to the apostles and describing

first the gospel and into the acts, he is describing the events that unfold and naming historical names and territories that looks pretty bona fide historical narrative. for the times that people take seriously as much as jospehus, obviously with a spin. the other genre of other gospels like gospel of thomas, peter that came in the mid second century are evidence that there was that genre around and multiplied but we are talking about a different genre of ancient text. some were early, historical point of luke's focus and then first corinthians 52, early stuff. >> let's be clear, paul's was written between 50 and 60. luke was writing at the same

time. witnesses were still around. i have read this objection of oh, no it was an invention, some conspiracy among early followers to what? persuade the world? >> it then shifts to is it credible that a group of people that were among the most intensive about the commandment not to bear false witness, would they have all decided to bear false witness and be hypocritical liars? of course it's possible but i don't think it is a credible argument. they had a strict ethic of don't tell lies or half truths. be willing to lay down your life for the truth. the martyrs could have easily gotten out with simply being quiet in the face of contrary statements. they felt the need to say the truth and be killed for it. so there is that apologetic force not to accept that as a credible way. >> i think that is an accurate

recounting. yes, no one recanted jesus' resurrection. people died espousing it. i don't know if all the viewers are aware but after the resurrection, there is a pretty healthy post resurrection narrative in the scriptures in the acts of the apostles and gospels about what jesus did. he was present to his friends. they recount his works and appearances, recount their own weakness and doubt. literarily, it's very impressive to me. scripturally i am no expert. >> these people also included self criticism. sometimes it looked bad like peter, keep that in there. i fell on my face. >> the first witnesses to the resurrection as told in the gospel were women and women had

a social status that didn't allow their word to be taken seriously. >> yes. >> let's take another brief break and we will return with father john bottcher and talk about the resurrection. [ cell phone rings ]

>> yeah, i'm watching it too. i see them every day. >> the curtains, they're always drawn in this place. >> i know. >> that guy, it seems like he's in charge of them. i don't know, i don't feel very good about this. >> we have to report this. >> yes, absolutely.

welcome back. we are talking about the resurrection of jesus of nazareth. fantastic story at many different angles. there are efforts to debunk or resist it but what do we get from it? what is important about it? why does it have a central place in our religious life? >> good question. i would say one thing is since it is a tangible reality, first in luke's gospel they see jesus risen and think it's a ghost. they get panicked. jesus says calm down, got anything to eat? they're like yeah. so he eats a piece of fish. they're like well ghosts don't do that. we're okay. it's something tangible. they touched the fish and then

he ate it. okay, that demonstrates real human bodily presence. i believe that's important. our bodies are focused in the way we have passions. they were afraid. you look in the resurrection and you see emotion, passion, fear, joy amazement. in most of the gospel it is not there. there is rarely that emotional intensity. >> if god became man and took on human form, then he suffers a human death. but he overcomes it in this way and that way i find unimaginable. i can't imagine what his risen body was. is this settled in the church doctrine? >> it's mysterious. the qualities are he can go through walls, just appears, and yet it is a tangible body. it does throw us off. it wouldn't fit the normal myth

or whatever, rules for how he can do whatever he is doing. >> it's a display of god's power, i take it, but as you point out displayed modestly. he comes and goes, knows his followers, what will appeal to them, not doing anything spectacular recorded in the gospels. >> didn't apparently heal anyone or work miracles after the resurrection. it's just being with his disciples, convincing them that he is there and really alive. >> i heard you played christ in the passion play in lake county. >> yeah. >> that's an interesting angle to try to embody that. >> it was a privilege and amazing experience. i had come back from a pilgrimage in israel, had been there five weeks, living, walking, sleeping where jesus had walked and slept. then i went to the passion play

in germany, a huge beautiful dramatic production. i had been asked to be christ in the lake county passion play. in the open there are about 200 members in the cast, people on horseback, flocks of goats. >> yeah. sounds great. >> in that play, just the amazing inside view of christ with the sufferings, with his carrying the cross, i insisted on making a false size fully solid 4 by 12 cross that weighed 110 pounds. >> okay. >> i didn't have to fake. it was really heavy. with that experience and sufferings within the grace of the resurrection, coming over the hill, risen, just seeing shock wave of awe with the audience. this is like the real thing, the impact, the joy that was

there. it started me thinking about the reason. why did jesus have to come back like that? >> yes. >> it's for that full convincing human relationship of the body embrace, you know. there is a certain beautiful part of the play where i would go to my mom mary. it's like okay, this is my son. i know him. it was a beautiful moment, very emotional and affirmative. if you looked at the disciples before that, they're scared and hiding in their upper room. after they encounter jesus risen they're ready to go to the ends of the world. they have that intense zeal which wasn't happening before, the bodily presence of christ could affirm and they were so convinced beyond a shadow of a doubt because they had been with him for 40 days.

now they're ready to roll. >> you work with young people, a chaplain at a state university. are they interested in this? do they have the resurrection a more difficult doctrine than you might expect? >> i think it is a challenge definitely. it's easy to believe he suffered and died. that's pretty much a historical point. the risen part, yeah. there is a great movement in young people now to meditate, be in the presence of what we call the blessed sacrament, the host that we consecrate during the mass which we believe is the body although mystery so, the body of christ. it doesn't look like it but we believe it is him. it is tactical. that sense of a physical real presence that also has a spiritual power. that is intriguing for young adults today. it provides a lot of gust oh.

>> i do hear about this. our youth minister arranges adoration sessions. i think it is not only meditative but silent and deeply plumbing for people to get away from the world and be alone with god. i want to thank you for being with us. we have a minute left. i would like to ask what's the one or two things a viewer should take from this discussion? >> it's an intriguing mystery and worth all the attention you give it. it is a real question. whether you believe or not, there is data out there of the empty tomb, christian tradition, and also what we claim to be so jesus is with us now, manifestations of healings, same as jesus used to do. also to realize the passion of the event where we have such joy and strength and ability to commiserate because we have

this joyful sustenance inside. let your passions live. get curious and go for it. >> thank you very much. thank you for joining us on this special easter themed presentation about the resurrection of jesus christ.

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