captioning sponsored by cbs >> brennan: today on "face the nation." a week of backtracking and contradictions from the president and his new attorney, rudy guiliani. >> i would love to. nobody wants to speak more than me. >> brennan: president trump told reporters he's eager to talk to special counsel robert mueller but what he said about stormy daniels' case that could put him in legal jeopardy as guiliani's defense backfires. we'll talk to kellyanne conway and attorney for stormy dan else michael avenatti. we'll look ahead to the upcoming summit to north korean leader kim jong-un. and british ambassador will talk about saturday's deadline for president to decide if formally pull out of the iran nuclear deal. the former head of the cia and

nsa, michael hayden has a new book out, "the assault on intelligence." he'll also join us. plus we'll have plenty of political and legal analysis on all the news coming up on "face the nation." welcome to "face the nation." i'm margaret brennan. it has been a week of legal twists and turns beginning with a shocking leak to the "new york times" of the question that special continental rocket mueller wants to ask president trump. white house attorney ty cobb announced his departure as another emmet flood came on board. but it was rudy guiliani who sent shock waves through washington through series of tv appearances that raised more questions than answers. in a wednesday appearance on sean hannity, guiliani revealed that the president reimbursed $130,000 in hush money that attorney michael cohen paid to stormy daniels at the end of the 2016 election. that payment may violate

campaign finance laws. >> that money was not campaign money, sorry, i'm give you a fact now that you don't know. it's not campaign money. no campaign finance violation. >> funneled it through a law firm. the president repaid it. >> he did? >> president didn't know about this? >> he didn't know about the specifics of it as far as i know. but he did know about the general arrangement that michael would take care of things like this. >> brennan: president trump appeared to confirm the story in series of tweets. but in another fox appearance, guiliani suggested it was campaign related. >> imagine if that came out on october 15th, 2016. in the middle of the last debate with hillary clinton. >> brennan: the revelation raised questions about what the president knew and when. here is what he said a month ago on air force one.

>> did you know about the $130,000 payment? >> friday brought more confusion. >> rudy is a great guy but he just started a day ago. but he really has his heart into it. he's working hard. he's learning the subject matter. >> brennan: guiliani seemed to get the president's message last night. >> so, did you misspeak or did people not interpret what you were saying? >> i'm not an expert on the facts yet, i'm getting there. i am an expert on the law, particularly campaign finance law. and the fact is there is no way the campaign finance violation of any kind nor was it a loan, it was -- >> brennan: in an interview on abc guiliani backtracked again. >> the president does acknowledge meeting stormy daniels, correct? >> i'm not really involved in the daniels thing. i don't know.

>> brennan: we begin with kellyanne conway. thank you for joining us. >> thank you, margaret. >> brennan: rudy guiliani said he's not an expert on the facts yet. why is the president authorized him to speak like this? >> the president -- one thing i do want to say to you, margarets the president told me just yesterday that when he said no on air force one last month, he's talking about when the payment occurred. that he was not aware of the payment to ms. daniels when the payment occurred. that is consistent with his tweets from a couple of days ago, president had lot to say about this matter. he says this is a private matter, had nothing to do with campaign funds that there is an nda in full force and effect, he believes that ms. daniels and her lawyer have violated. that may go to arbitration. also repeats that this is a false claim. and he also says that michael cohen had basically discretion to use funds that had nothing do do with the campaign how he saw

fit as his attorney at that time. >> brennan: in an interview last night on fox news, rudy deguiliani says the payment was a campaign expenditure. is that what you would characterize as? >> i don't know why anyone would say i would not characterize. the president characterized as not campaign expenditure. as the campaign manager for the winning part of the campaign, this never crossed my desk. i was never made aware of this. i found this out many, long time afterwards, long after i got into the white house. so i think the president is reemphasizing that himself as someone who would know this, margaret, in his tweets when he says it wasn't campaign money, these are private agreements. his personal attorney had discretion to do this. and that people who are wealthy and people who are famous do this routine, he was trying to save embarrassment for the

family. if you go back and pull candidate trump as basically any time during that time period between tape that came out october 7th and election day a month later you will find mr. trump and the campaign trail almost daily talking about the false accusers, talking how this isn't true, that he was very much on the record with the way he felt about everything that was swirling around him. he was speaking to the issues, six or seven speeches a day. >> brennan: were there other campaign expenditures, i know you disagree with the language, other expenditures like this that you were aware of made by michael cohen? >> no. none. that i would be aware of. campaign expenditures were for data and research, for ads, 50% digital, 50% television ads. travel. i will tell you people at the highest level of the trump campaign were looking over the schedules of our two greatest assets, donald j. trump and michael pence we had fraction of

the budget of secretary clinton's campaign, for example. we were very creative putting them out there. the answer to that is, no. >> brennan: you said that you did not learn about payment to stormy daniels until long after the white house. i want to play that exchange on air force one so our viewers can understand what the president was responding to there when he was asked about that $130,000 payment to stormy daniels. >> did you know about the $130,000 payment to stormy daniels? why did michael cohen -- >> mike sell my attorney. you'll have to ask michael. >> do you know where he got the money? >> no, i don't know. >> brennan: the president said he also didn't know where the money came from. but now his attorney says it came from president trump. >> i go by the president's tweets here i'm not part of his

legal team. i'll go by the president's tweet where he says that this money was through reimbursement through monthly retainers, that's what he was explaining to his tweet. i think the tweets are very important because three in a row that really covered the waterfront of this particular incident, this particular matter the way the president feels about the allegations, the way he feels about the nda being in full force and affect. really the motivation which is that people of wealth, we know people on other networks have paid a lot of money, millions of dollars for different matters. this is $130,000. a personal matter. i have some visibility into this having been on the campaign being in the white house watching the news like everybody else. but i don't deal with this every day when i walk into the white house. i'm charged with looking over things like trade and infrastructure, obviously opioid, the economy, we're very happy with the 3.9 -- >> brennan: i want to ask you about some of the policy issues. to close this. when did michael cohen stop

representing the president? >> i don't know that. in the white house -- >> brennan: you said on april 5th he was still his attorney. >> you have to ask michael cohen, his attorney. i did see in different interview today that mayor guiliani said michael cohen is no longer the president's attorney. i don't know the answer to that. i'd be happy to ask and have someone get back to you on that. again, when i get in there every day as his curl we're not talking about personal matters, personal. he represented him a long time but -- >> brennan: why is rudy guiliani talking about issues of national security. he is speaking about release of three american prisoners from north corey what loose lives are literally on the line. >> we're hopeful. but obviously very anxious about hostages abroad. >> brennan: is the white house authorized him to speak on that. he doesn't have a security clearance. >> i have a security clearance i'm not going to divulge anything like that i'll leave that to the president and security team.

his chief diplomats. we know it would be gesture on the part of the north korea if they release the three american hostages, we're pleased with everything we see coming out of the north korean meetings and this president's leadership helping to bring them to the table to end decades of war in korea and also to denuclear rise. so far so good, president will make these announcements, he will announce date and place for such a summit. and he and his -- people in charge will announce on any good news. >> brennan: is steve bannon still cop counseling the president? >> i asked the president, we had long ranging conversation when he called me yesterday he said that report is not true. he said he has not talked to mr. bannon in many months. he has seen headline that was made aware of it just happened to mention that to me. >> brennan: the president said he was very much like to speak

to robert mueller. guiliani said he would be a fool to do so. will he speak with him? >> many people say that it wouldn't be necessary for the president to do so based on what they see and what they know. i would note for you that really fascinating curious development that happened friday came from the federal district judge in eastern district of virginia who is residing over the manafort case. if you read the full exchange, pretty remarkable, margaret where you have not somebody from the white house, not a politics, no one who is, quote, team trump somewhere talking about the mueller. federal district judge saying to mueller's team, have you burned through $10 million case. why did you put it off in new york, where manafort indictment anything to do with the president these are charges from 2005 and 2007 -- >> brennan: brick it to a faster close? >> judge is pointing out that he raised questions, where is this going, what is this about, are you way outside of the scope of

the original mob date. we were promised by many people, collusion, interfered, we don't haven't seen any of that. talking about other things now. the president has been very cooperative. you heard him himself, he would be happy to answer questions and cooperative. make sure that the process is fair and to hear him say it often the process is not been fair. >> brennan: we'll talk about that ahead, kellyanne conway, thank you for coming. we turn now to michael avenatti the attorney representing stormy daniels he joins us live from los angeles. michael, your client appeared last night on "saturday night live." rudy guiliani says another sign that hard to take this case seriously. how would you respond to him? >> well, i don't think her appearance on "saturday night live" has anything to do with whether it's a serious case, margaret, or not. i think over the last few months we have proven to be very serious about this case.

in fact far more serious than michael cohen, mr. trump or now mr. guiliani. this is the rope-a-dope defense playing out over the last week or so. >> brennan: okay, i think we're having some audio issues there. can we hear what mike sell saying right now? okay. i'll move on. mr. avenatti, you believe that in many ways your client's case against the president i've heard you say gotten stronger over the past few days. what specifically did rudy guiliani give you in terms of ammunition? >> there's no question it's gotten considerably stronger even gotten stronger this morning. the more they talk, the better our case gets. here is why. because they can't keep their stories straight, they can't keep their lives straight, keep providing further explanations upon explanation because they don't want to tell the american people the truth about what happened here. you just heard kellyanne conway state that basically no doesn't

mean no. they are now redefining what the word no means on air force one, trying to reshape the answer to that question. margaret, i have to tell you i would urge people to go back take a look at the statement that michael cohen issued back in late february or early march where he denied basically that mr. trump had reimbursed the payment, he claimed he had done it all on his own. we now know that was an absolutely at the time he was representing the president. it's clear to people what was going on here. it's a cover up. >> brennan: you have called to depose the president, last time federal judge said, no, you're moving too quickly that was back in march. do you have any new update on that? >> well, that's actually correct that the judge initially said that on a procedural matter because it was premature. we refiled the motion and that motion is pending and we're hopeful that the court is going to rule on it. but i have to tell you with each passing day with more and more statements made by mr. guiliani, miss conway now, michael cohen's

attorneys and others, the likelihood of us being able to place this president under oath i think has gone up exponentially, i'm looking forward to that time. maybe we can ask him what he meant by the word "no" during that deposition although i think people know. >> brennan: what would your question be? >> i'm not going to disclose my first question but we've got a whole host of questions. let me say this, the idea that mr. guiliani that he still doesn't know what the facts are, this is not a complicated situation, margaret. you could have 30-minute meeting with a client which takes place with attorneys and clients all the time and get to the bottom of many of these issues. the reason why he claims to not know the facts now is because they don't know what to say because they told so many lies. >> brennan: the trump campaign faced accusations around the time that this payment was made to your client, stormy daniels. there were at least 19 women who accused the president of assault, harassment, other kinds of unwand sexual advances. your client claims consensual

relationship with the president. why do you think that this kind of non-disclosure agreement, this very different approach to your client was adopted instead of simply denying it as they did around 20 other women? >> i can't answer that except to say that i think that mr. trump knows that this is true. that there's no question that this relationship occurred. there's no question that the intimacy occurred. and yet he's tried to cover it up. they have tried to distance himself from the agreement. distance themselves from the payment. distance themselves from the reimbursement. margaret, all you have to do look how they now claim reimbursement occurred to know that something doesn't smell right. if it was all above board why wouldn't he have just written a check or sent wire transfer to michael cohen of $130,000. why this whole scheme? i don't get it. >> brennan: michael avenatti, thank you very much for joining us. we are joined onset by jonathan turley a constitutional law professor at george washington

university. wish you happy birthday. >> thank you, margaret. >> brennan: i understand that two of our last guests were also students of yours at some point? >> that's right. both kellyanne and michael. i've said you don't have to go out gw for national news. you just proved that. >> brennan: look at some of the work they have done here. you have said that in many ways the president -- that these questions about stormj daniels could in fact layout the case for robert mueller on on jukes of justice that we have yet to see when it comes to the main legal case he's chasing which is regarding russian election meddling. explain that. >> the danger here is that danid supply the obstruction case that has so far evaded robert mueller. i don't think the obstruction case or collusion case that mueller is pursuing is materialized as far as we can see as a serious threat against the president. but obstruction case would be easier with stormy daniels. even though guiliani says that this is a weak case under

federal election law, the fact is that it is possible to violate the federal election law whether it's a loan or a gift. and the threat is not the actual crime, because this is something that's not normally charged criminally. guiliani is referring to ear respected test under the sec. that if there was another reason for the payment it's not a violation of the sec. people like white house counsel understand that because he was on the sec, actually worked to lower the standards for the election material. the danger, there's an investigation in the field out of new york, so if the presiden- >> brennan: the case involving michael cohen. >> that's right. that search warrant specifically referred to this matter. so if the president's accused of influencing witnesses or withholding documents, encouraging people to give false information, all that have would be easier obstruction case. you don't have all of the use of

presidential authority that you have, for example, firing james comey. that is tough because he's using inherent power. that falls away with stormy daniels. it is possible that a porn star could take down a president. if the president is not cautious. >> brennan: that's quite something for i think many viewers to get their head around here. rudy guiliani said this morning that the president's legal team would not have to comply with the subpoena. and they continue to argue that sitting president cannot be indicted is that accurate legal analysis? >> he doesn't have to comply with the subpoena any more than anyone else does. just has to be willing to pay the consequences. the fact is the law in this area generally favors mueller, if he wants to fight the subpoena he'll be using the same argument used by richard nixon and bill clinton. those did not turn out well. so mueller likely would prevail on the issue of forcing him into a subpoena. i happen to believe that the president can be indicted while

in office. i don't believe there's a strong constitutional argument that people have put forward that the president somehow immune. what bothers me is that the framers talked about a great deal of their concern of giving too much power to the president. there's nary a mention in the convention as to the sweeping immunity that people are talking about. these are not the people to just have an implied sweeping immunity. >> brennan: would you button up kelly an conway mentioned this judge in the eastern district of virginia who accused robert mueller over reach, how did you understand the comments in the past few days, white house thinks it's strengthens the their argument that all of this is a witch hunt. >> i think that the white house has a good point and not so good point. judge's comments surprised many people in the bar, he was really talking about motivation instead of the issue of the mandate. usually judges don't get into that. the fact is this mandate is largely defined by rows ensteen and rows ensteen approved these

counts. where they have good argument i see no principled reason why rosenstein gave the cohen case to new york but approved manafort case except that it made political sense. i think it was strategic. there's no reason legally why those two cases were treated so differently. >> brennan: professor, thank you for joining us. and happy birthday. we'll be back in one minute. that's moving companies forward fast. e-commerce. real time inventory. virtual changing rooms. that's why retailers rely on comcast business to deliver consistent network speed across multiple locations. every corporate office, warehouse and store near or far covered. leaving every competitor, threat and challenge outmaneuvered. comcast business outmaneuver. money managers are pretty much the same. all but while some push high commission investment products, fisher investments avoids them.

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rounds over and over again on all the cable news channel. >> brennan: nary gee guiliani. >> made a number of different claims about what the ultimate result of his legal process will be including the president will be forced to resign over them. that is ludicrous. and frankly i want to continue my run of good luck after to say i'm happy to wager with michael avenatti a dinner at the palm with stormy daniels and my wife that he will not be forced to resign over anything related to this. i think what we're seeing -- >> brennan: you heard from the professor where this could intersect with the mueller case and he's serious. >> we have to keep in mind the political ramifications of this that we're seeing slow motion repeat of what happened with the clinton presidency. and frankly after the mid terms we're going to see a push for impeachment, could very well be based on -- >> brennan: we'll talk more about that when we come back from that commercial break. we have lot more to talk about.

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>> brennan: be sure to join us next week we'll have interview with former defense secretary robert gates. that's next sunday on "face the nation."

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>> brennan: welcome book to "face the nation" i'm margaret brennan. we're talking politics with ben domenech the federal wrist, cbs news own ed o'keefe and "wall street journal" nancy youssef. shauna we heard from professor turley of george washington university, constitutional law professor say a porn star may actually take down the presidency. that's an incredible statement. >> yes, it is an incredible statement. also some of it we hear that statement you had jonathan turley and kellyanne conway on because rudy guiliani went on fox news from a pr perspective, he gave more attention, he gave more sort of fire or more wood on the fire of the stormy daniels thing which is something that the white house clearly doesn't want to talk about. but he made it impossible not to talk about it.

>> brennan: the president authorized him to talk about it. >> authorized him to talk about it that's true. but rudy guiliani is his lawyer, supposed to protect him, doesn't seem like that what he was doing. whether the president authorizes or not his legal duty like, this is what is best for you, this is not what is best for you. that is not what happens. we're not talking unemployment numbers. we're not talking other things that president trump may actually want to tout this week because guiliani relegitimized this conversation this week. >> brennan: nancy, one of the things it was clear from speaking to kellyanne conway she was not comfortable talking the fate of three americans, rudy guiliani said that's immanent. literally lives on the line here. he's talking about that. >> actually created a bit of confusion talking to u.s. official trying to confirm you said you have to call rudy guiliani who is not part of the national security team or have clearance to give insights on this.

we know that those three americans have been moved to the capital which suggests that it's imminent. in terms of how these announcements happen it's usually a little bit more formal. because when you hear that, if you are a family member, that sets all sorts of emotions and feelings into action. from the military perspective it was hard to understand whether the military was prepared to fly them out, what the intelligence community was doing. so created an air of confusion. at a time when we're potentially talking about very serious talks with north korea if it happens, it appears to be intent of goodwill by north koreans ahead of these key talks. >> brennan: you also had rudy guiliani tear up a piece of paper claiming that is what the president was going to do with the iran deal, that decision is coming this week. was he freelancing on that? >> not as much that we can tell given secretary of state pompeo. by more recent statements by

sect of defense jim mattis. we heard from them that if the presidents doesn't see the terms as he'd like to see them then deal is over. the message is that the president feels that the iranians have gotten too much relief of sanctions are for too little insight and draw down of nuclear weapons program. that is the tension that's there. they are saying that they want to see a more permanent agreement, one that deals with the ballistic missile program, one that deals with iran's nefarious activities in syria and yemen and iraq. problem is it's not clear that the iranians are interest inside agreements to the one that was reached in 2015. so challenge becomes if this is torn up or as guiliani suggested or some efforts to play with it, for example, to bring back some of the sanctions. that would end the deal anyway. it created a lot of ambiguity. one of the reasons we saw the

call between trump and theresa may of the u.k. a visit from ma chron of france. chancellor before. this is one that potentially affects all the signatories. >> brennan: we'll talk about that with sir kim darroch. the kind of primaries we should expect. >> we'll start to see points put up on the board across the country. primaries ahead of the mid term elections, most notably this week west virginia, north carolina, indiana. we're focused on west virginia race because you have five-way republican primary no take on joe mnachin the most vulnerable democrat given how popular the president is. there is reason to believe that leading candidate is former coal mining executive who served time in federal prison on misdemeanor charge related to the deadly upper big branch mine disaster in 2010. he's running away with it some

suggests because he has this sort of anti-washington, pro trump businessman not politician message. >> brennan: very sharply anti-mitch mcconnell. >> he has floated inaccurate statements about the senate leader all of this designed to sort of stir up the same kind of anti-washington, anti-republican establishment sentiment that exists across the country. given that it's a primary, good chance he wins this. various republican groups have said if he is the nominee they're not going to do that. >> brennan: one of the questions is not just message being anti-washington but that is flat out racist, some of the ads that don blank enship has run are referencing secretary choi and her family and their ethnicity. this is in articles of breitbart suggesting certain things having to do with their ties to china as well. what is this reflecting within

conservative politics? >> i think it reflects dissatisfaction among lot of different cohorts for the job that the republican congress has done. there's a reason that speaker ryan is stepping down. >> brennan: that's not policy it's personal. >> i think it's personal, it's policy and everything. i think that they believe that the republican congress has failed to live up to its obligation to deliver policy for president trump. i think they are highlighting the criticism in all sorts of different primaries, this is just frankly the beginning of this. we're going to see a number of races layout this -- play out this way where candidates that boost their own approval ratings not because they are actually good candidates but because they have very pointed and direct criticism of people like mitch mcconnell frankly republicans and lot of different states do not like and do not believe lived up to obligations. >> it is in some ways run against the swamp play book,

liberals who run against nancy pelosi, there's a similarity there. but the dog whistling in these ads is not something that can be ignored. >> i'm not sure it's a dog whistle. >> so it's a call-out whistle. i think there is something to be said if our politics is moving in that direction and republican party puts up a nominee against a joe manchin who is using that kind of language trying to insight that feeling within people who does that mean for the republican party going forward m. days don blankenship is probably joe manchin's dream in terms of him being one of the most vulnerable senators. >> ted cruz thought he was going to run a campaign with the constitution, he had to fight off rumors of his wife was ugly and his father killed jfk. >> brennan: another development in the state of iowa as this week the governor there imposed a six-week abortion ban. >> strictest in the country. again, another example of --

she's somebody who faces potentially difficult re-election this year, election she's filling out a term, former governor now u.s. ambassador to china. this is something that we're going to see through the summer different kinds of policy arguments made in different states on issues like this in a bid to build up the base of support. but on the flip side this very well could infuriate voters in iowa drive out democrats or independents who are concerned about this. that is a state along with several others in the midwest where you're going to see state houses, governorships flipped. partly anti-trump, partly also just belief there's got to be some divided government. >> brennan: one of the things that the president would like to put on the board before november or just for presidency this agreement with north korea. he says date and time have been set. what are you hearing? >> is reporting that location in

singapore just before the g7 summit in quebec. that hasn't been confirmed by u.s. officials yet. it was one place that we've had heard in addition to the dmz. the disadvantage of the dmz from some people's perspective that it was going to kim jong-un's turf. we're starting to hear leaks it's going to be up until the talks themselves. because this isn't the kind of talk where iran deal where people lower levels working at every little detail such that at the end big players came in and signed it. this is the exact opposite that things are going to come from the kim jong-un or trump for people afterwards to sort out. >> brennan: can you clarify, there was conflicting statements from the defense secretary from the president whether troops are on the table. i think the. >> what does the word "order" mean. he said many times that he doesn't understand why 28,500 u.s. troops maybe it should be lower.

we've heard this from defense officials before. the presumption is that at some point he has said that u.s. military, we should have options ready should he want to do draw down. and so i think the confusion came about is can you call that an order. because it's not sort of traditional military term. but when commander in chief says it it has to be acted upon. so if it's on the table, i think realistically what we would see depending how the -- best case scenario for all involved some kind of draw down as a signal that it is no longer still a war time front line as it still is technically speaking. >> brennan: before we let you go ask you about the health of your father in law, senator john mccain how is he doing? >> it's always a pleasure to talk about your in-law on national television. i actually, my wife meagan is out there with him this weekend. this is first weekend i think five in a row that we haven't been out there with him. he's doing well. he's talking.

he's chaty and walking around. this is a terrible disease, we appreciate all of the support that we've been given by a lot of different folks who have come out and met with him over the past couple of weeks, the family is very thankful for that. thankful for all the prayers and good wishes that we've heard from so many different americans. >> brennan: also heard from him in this recorded message regarding his book. he seems to be very reflective right now. >> he is. you come to the end of your life, in this case he's lived a life over and over again i think enough for five or ten different people. he has had pretty amazing run. the fact is he's very grateful for the chances and fortune that he experienced in life, he's reflecting at the end on a lot of different things. we just appreciate the fact that we've had such a good time to be able to spend with him in this moment and we appreciate again all the support that we've had not just from doctors and nurses, but also from just well wishers from across the country.

>> brennan: i know so many send thoughts and prayers, thank you for sharing that. we will be right back in a moment. crohn's disease. you're more than just a bathroom disease. you're a life of unpredictable symptoms. crohn's, you've tried to own us. but now it's our turn to take control with stelara® stelara® works differently for adults with moderately to severely active crohn's disease. studies showed relief and remission, with dosing every 8 weeks. stelara® may lower the ability of your immune system to fight infections and may increase your risk of infections and cancer.

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mostly about north korea. the prime minister congratulating president on the progress that has been made and asked him about forthcoming summit. they touched on iran deal. the message we are hearing from contacts in this administration is that although the president views on the deal are very clear and been out there for months and months, actually for years, but a decision has yet to be taken. >> brennan: your foreign secretary will be here to lobby as many of the european allies of the united states have done over the past week. what do you think is the compelling argument at this point? because as you said the president doesn't like the deal, but do you think that you can come up with a side agreement in time for him to avoid putting sanctions on iran next saturday? >> this is the area that we want to talk about. we think it's a good deal, it's not a perfect deal, no deal ever is perfect. the president is rightly

concerned about iran's regional activities which are ma lined and damaging to security. he doesn't like the fact that this is not happy about sunset clause, sanctions should be tougher. on those issues we have ideas, we think that we can find language, produce some language that meets the president's concerns. >> brennan: this week you're ready to close that side agreement this week? >> administration with our colleague for several weeks now, i think we're making progress. we haven't got there yet. a few days left to find our way through. >> brennan: the president's national security advisor is on the show, his own personal misgivings about the deal he will still present the president with the option you're working on here. do you take him at his word? >> i know john well. i've talked to him about this.

our own national security advisor was talking to him, absolutely. >> brennan: a fair shot? >> we'll give eight shot. >> brennan: president macon of france says this deal is blown up opens pandora's box. are you prepared for that? >> the u.s. stays in the deal. >> brennan: you're working on plan b? >> but of course they're looking all the eventualities. my government has said as long as iran is in compliance with the deal, that will be our position as well if you continue the deal hope the administration choose to it. >> brennan: i want to ask you the president was speaking at the nra he spoke about a spike in knifingss and murders in london i'll play that bite for you. >> i recently read the story that in london, which has unbelievably tough gun laws, one

very prestigious hospital right in the middle is like a war zone for horrible stabbing wounds. yes, that's right. they don't have guns they have knives and instead there's blood, they say it's as bad as military war zone hospital, knives, knives, knives. london are getting used to it. >> brennan: that was very controversial back home for you. complicated that the president -- >> every country has an issue with knife crimes and so, actually just introduced about a year ago new strategy on tackling this. we are consulting about new legislation to make it even

harder for people to acquire the kind of knives that are involved in these crimes. so action is in hand. the president is right we do have extraordinary strong gun laws in the u.k. and we will keep em. >> brennan: later this month, all americans are watching for this royal wedding, an american meagan marquell will hear prince harry which will this mean to the british people? >> the british people are thrilled that an american is marrying prince harry. she has done extraordinary job with the upcoming wedding in terms of her public appearances. think she's already much loved amongst british people. i think it's wonderful news not just for the two of them but for the relationship between the u.k. and u.s. we're thrilled for it. >> brennan: we'll be watching. thank you very much. >> thank you. >> brennan: we'll be back in a moment. you could save energy

by living off the grid. completely. or... just set the washing machine to cold. do your thing. with energy upgrade california. >> brennan: our next guest michael hayden is former director of both cia and national security agency also the author of new book "the assault on intelligence." american national security in an

age of lies. also principle at the group here in washington. what gave you an age of lies. >> moved into oxford dictionary as post-truth world. i look at the problem in three layers and frankly first problem is us. it's the broader society. our social discourse, we're making decisions based not on facts and data but emotion, preference, grievance, loyalty, tribalism. we have a president who recognize that as candidate, exploited it as a candidate frankly i think worsens it as president by some of the things he says and does. then finally a foreign power coming in recognizing and exploiting both one and two above. it's all based on our moving away from basing our lives, our decisions, our dialogue on a view of objective reality rather than preference.

>> brennan: why do you think that this is now coming up? as intelligence professional you've been analyze can these kind of issues around the world in this book you talk about advice you've given to other professionals who are considering joining the trump administration, you're telling them, don't do it. don't you need more professionalism? >> i take that, only focus very highest level because i don't know if that they're going to have much influence. i look at the experience of h.r. mcmaster who tried as hard as he could connect decision making to the normal processes of fact-based governance. i think he left because he failed. the other folks, ones i describe as below deck with an oar, be there, do your duty make this president as successful as you can, but here is the punch line. you have got to preserve not just your integrity, obviously, but you've got to preserve your institution. in the face of the pressures that it's under at the present

time. >> brennan: let me ask you about some of the comments the president has made about the institution of intelligence, you've taken issue with his very public criticism of the intelligence community, including his repeated reference to the 9/11 attacks, missed signals there, faulty, weapons of mass destruction in iraq. isn't some much of his skepticism warranted? >> i was in the room when we voted on the weapons of mass destruction national intelligence. margaret that's a pattern with regard to the president when it comes to decision making, explaining his policies or defending his policies. he doesn't come at you with data. he doesn't come at you with evidence. he comes at you with attempting to delegitimize those who would agree with him. so the fake news. lying media. intelligence with quotes in it. political hacks in terms of john brennan and jim clapper.

that's the essence of post truthism. you don't take the matter on based on an argument as to what preat is. in fact reality doesn't matter very much you just discredit those who disagree with you. >> brennan: yet he is trying to appoint career intelligence official to run the cia given her a full endorsement there. but i want to ask you she was chief in thailand, some call it torture, enhanced interrogation, those were destroyed in 200, at that point in time. do you think those tapes "have been destroyed because this is a huge issue that could hold up her confirmation. >> as a matter of policy it was against guidance. legally, there were no legal prohibitions against it. but you bring up gina that is a great question. if we can relitigate the past of cia we've done that before, if you wanted to do that, then it should be directors and attorney generals and members of congress

and presidents. why i want gina in there now is based upon the conversation you and i just had, with a president who does not always attach his decisions to the real world, to data, to evidence. gina haspel is the one woman i want in that room when everyone else will be going into north-south saying you're right, boss, gina haspel won't. absolutely not. her only existence as professional has been within the age ebb see. her only goal to live out the agency's mission which frankly to tell the truth to the president even though most often that makes the president's life less comfortable than it would otherwise be. >> brennan: will that repair his relationship with the intelligence committee? >> she is a wonderful choice. now the question becomes can she succeed where h.r. did not which is connecting that to the actual decision. >> brennan: general hayden, than you for joining us. we'll be back in a moment. that skills like teamwork,

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>> brennan: that's it for us today. thanks for watching "face the nation." next week we'll be in a new location right next door in our brand new cbs news washington bureau. we'll have a different look, different feel, different sound. but our tradition won't change. until then, for "face the nation," i'm margaret brennan. captioning sponsored by cbs captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

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