arch generall hello. on behalf of the arch diocese of san francisco welcome to mosaic. on this program representing arch diocese of san francisco we generally talk about religion. today we will shift from that and talk about more in the nature of science. 50 and 60 years ago there were scientific discoveries in human biology that have been studied applied refined and developed into a systematic treatment that today is 97 to 99% effective when used properly. it is ofly safe for humans. it is natural organic with no side effects. it is noninvasive.

no drugs are ingested, no drugs applied, no instruments used. california is at the leading edge of so much technology in holistic and sustainable is a leader in this system as well. yet most people know nothing about it. the science i am referring to is known as natural family planning. our guests today are a married couple who are practitioners and teachers of the little known science. we are talking about it because this year is the 50th anniversary of the famous and cyclical letter of pope paul the 6th. the pope explained why this particular application of medical science is approved and recommended by catholic church. after this break, please join us to examine the state of marriage in the half century since. maria, so how's work?

maria: it was 4th period biology. our students just weren't getting how easily viruses spread. so ms. bell and i had them role play a zombie virus outbreak. by the time they had all learned the lesson, all the living...were dead. hey, how's your job going? carlos: oh, that big sales meeting i planned? next year, i might get to go. kid: cool!

>> hello. thank you for joining us on mosaic. our guests are a married couple. this is maria lopez and her husband carlos. they are a married couple, a catholic couple i believe. i think carlos is a recent convert to the catholic church. they're here to talk about natural family tions of it and you have become teachers of it. i would like you to tell us about it. first tell us about your background, history.

>> we have been married for eight and a half years, happily married. that's how we feel. >> when you are counting half years, you know it's happy. >> it's great. i love to be married. we are both software engineers. >> okay. you both work in the bay area. >> yes. we have three little boys. so we are a little bit busy but also enjoying them and loving them. they are 7, 5, and 2. we have been practicing nfp since day one, since we got married. we decided to become teachers two years ago. we have been teaching the method for two years. we are really excited about it. we belong to the couple to couple league which is a

nonprofit organization as part of nfp. we are enjoying it a lot. >> i know something about your story. you are catholic and you are interested in natural family planning. carlos was not. what was that story like? >> i am a cradle catholic. i went to catholic school. i always knew that the catholic church approved of natural family planning methods and was not supportive of the contraceptive methods. so i wanted to use natural family planning when i got married. carlos had a different background. he was raised protestant, and he didn't know anything about natural family planning. >> who does really? many catholics of course don't. >> actually, none of my friends

grew up -- they didn't believe it worked. they thought it was nonintellectual or something from the past that our parents used and it didn't work. >> but you saw value in it. at that time you hadn't read, didn't approach this from philosophy or theology. >> for me it was mostly i wanted to follow the church's rules. but i didn't really understand the theology behind it. i think when i told carlos i wanted to use this method, he started challenging me. i really didn't have the answers. so i think at that point i started doing more research. but it was later that we came to read this. >> this difference or reluctance on your part might

have stopped the marriage from taking place? >> in the months before we were married, we took the class. then i realized about the abstinence period. to me it didn't make much sense. from the beginning i didn't believe in the teaching of the church. i was protestant so i didn't believe. but i love marianne. she's a cradle catholic. that attracted me to her because she was faithful to her faith. me being a man of faith, i could respect that she was really following the teaching. when she talked about using nfp, i panicked a little bit because i felt like it was an important part of marriage. i always heard that intimacy in marriage is very important. to me that translated to okay, that means that you have to

have a lot. that's how i understood it. >> sure. >> i didn't accept this and i told her i think we should postpone the wedding. we already had planned for the wedding. this was three weeks before we were married. i said i think we need to postpone because this is a big issue. we can't get married with this. i don't want to divorce. but i love her. in the end we talked and it was a sacrifice for me. i said let's get married. let's give it a try. my mind has changed since. >> you have practiced it, understood the teachings and so on. in most people's minds if they know anything about it associated with the the word abstinence and with self denial, if i was approaching marriage, i would think marriage is already about self

sacrifice and self denial. but one of the benefits is sex and romance with your wife or your husband whenever you need it. so why this? what is the point of this? you were very doubtful. >> yes. i think the main problem that he was facing is it sounded like a restriction on married life. when he challenged me, it didn't make sense. but to me it was a matter of conscious. even though i didn't understand it, i didn't feel i could not follow that rule. >> i understand. so you are conscious guided. your love for her guided you in this direction. we don't know as far as our discussion what nfp actually is and how it is practiced. we'll take a brief break now and come back after these commercials and talk further about natural family planning.

>> thanks for joining us in our discussion of natural family planning. we introduced this by talking about the science of it. you are convinced of it. i wanted you to know i went to this website, an expose' of scientific frauds and bad reporting. this editor says he expected to find that natural family planning is based on bogus science, teaching of the catholic church. but he said no, natural family planning is extremely effective when used properly. he couldn't deny it. that's a concession from a secular sort of person. i think we are finding the same sort of things from people who are specialties in fertility awareness and people who are

trying to achieve pregnancy rather than postpone pregnancy. we don't know really what it is so you tell us what natural family planning is. >> natural family planning, what it basically is is fertility awareness. fertility awareness is to know, so as a woman you know during your cycle when you are fertile and when you are not. at any time during the cycle as a woman, i can know if i am fertile or not. as a couple we decide whether we want to achieve pregnancy or postpone it. >> the signs, we don't have to get into detail, but they have to do with the heat of your body, the fluids in your body. anything else? >> it's three signs. the cervical mucus, basal body temperature which is a temperature our bodies have when we are in resting mode. so when we wake up, the first

thing we do is take the temperature. it was noticed i think by the end of the 1800s that the women's body temperature will rise by point 4 fahrenheit after ovulation. this was consistent among a group of women. >> i read that too. then more research in the '30s and '40s found other signs that made since. when pope paul wrote the letter much of the science was known. but the practice or systematic use of this as natural family planning was still being developed. is that right? >> yes. i read there were some studies released around the time. the temperature only methods were proving to be 99% effective. but i think it was later in the '70s that the rules for the

thermal method which uses the 3 signs, cross checking 3 signs to confirm ovulation happened, i think those rules were developed. >> it was really in 1971 when the couple to couple was created. they saw the need of we need to teach couples about the method, formalize it, make it easier to understand so they can learn. it was in 1971, three years after, when couple to couple was started. they started training couples to teach other couples. >> that's what i understood. i thought the science was developing. some of s caorotle like

mi t we really need to make this effective, safe, and stable. so that has happened, if i am not wrong. what you teach is genuine science and genuine biology. >> yes. i think with our background in technology and science, i didn't believe in it to be honest. i didn't think it was going to work. every time i heard someone used natural family planning, they had a ton of kids. at that time i didn't understand. i thought oh it must be because the method doesn't work, not because they wanted so many kids. i think as we started learning about it, i was fascinated by how our bodies work and how effective it is. >> that is interesting. let me ask you this. you volunteered as teachers. where do you teach and for whom do you teach? >> we have been helping

different diocese, mainly san francisco and oakland. we are also in santa rosa doing classes. we can be in contact for different parishes. we do introductory classes to explain the method. it is not really to learn it. it is to inform people about it. then we do the class. >> i think most catholic diocese require a couple coming to marriage to take a course to become knowledgeable about this, is that right? >> it depends on the diocese and parish. i think some parishes are starting to move towards that. i think it's really good that couples learn about this natural, organic way of planning a family. many times what we have come

across meeting other couples is they don't know about it or there are misconceptions. they think of this as the the rhythm method. >> that's the old style of counting calendar days from the woman's cycle. >> yes. with the couples we teach many times they say i don't think this will work for me because i don't have regular cycles. they change every time. we say no, this works for women with any type of cycle. >> i read that as well. it's not about calendar days or duration of time. it's current symptoms from your body. i will say this. it still sounds like all the responsibility is on the woman. she has to take care of everything, has to monitor herself and so on. a question that would come up naturally i think as couples learn is what's the man's part? what's he doing? >> that's the beauty and why i

am so happy with nfp. i am involved. in the beginning i didn't like it much. i didn't get too involved. once i understood and i saw how perfect for me it is, cycles and all that, i started to help, the couple to couple league mission is to involve both. >> that's what i think is true, a collaboration. let me interrupt you. we will take a brief break and we'll come back and talk for a few more minutes about natural family planning.

welcome back. we are talking about natural family planning and pope paul's letter of 1968 about human life. pope paul predicted, there is a passage in the brief letter about the consequences of the contraceptive culture. he figured possibilities would arise of more marital infidelity, weakening of marriage, men using women as instruments, imposition of contraceptive practices on people by governments and things of that nature. we do see some of these

difficulties arising in the world of marriage and sexuality and so on. i don't think as a society we are in a happy place since the sexual revolution and contraceptive culture. things are difficult. many scientists, sociologists are examining this and writing about it. not just catholics, but others. that's a brief look at some of the consequences that are possible. what we are focusing on is your understanding of the benefits and depth of the practice of this natural family planning with or without a pope's say so. if the pope hadn't said so, would you still be doing this if you discovered it by accident? >> i would do it. there are so many benefits. the month started to pass when we got married and i started to see good things in our

marriage. they were because of nfp. the first thing i saw during the abstinence periods, we had to do something else. we didn't have to be physical to show our love. we were creative so we were doing other things. that gave us a lot of space to talk which is very important in marriages. communication, talk. i think it was not like that when we were dating. once we got married because we have this abstinence period, we wanted to be romantic but we couldn't. so we talked a lot. it gave me an opportunity to get to know her better. >> that is very significant. the woman wants conversation. >> then the second thing i started to notice, it was important for me, i started to

have more self control. self control around my sexuality and my thoughts. that was something i thought i was like that and it was okay for me to think about sex. but then because of nfp, i started canceling those thoughts. in the beginning because it didn't make sense that we are in abstinence period. but then it was like i wouldn't want my wife to know i am thinking this. that helped me and i felt relieved. now i can control this part. i could see and now i see this is good for my marriage. i am faithful to my wife because of this. that gives better chances of staying married forever. >> what about you? same thing? i have talked to you about this a little. i think you found a renewal of the romance from month to month

because of the agreement that you would not be intimate during this certain period. >> for me, just knowing carlos loved me just the way i am and without me having to do anything with my body, just by learning whether i am fertile or not, i think one other benefit of natural family planning is it creates this abstinence period and it creates the anticipation of when you will be together again. i think it's really good to keep the flame alive in the marriage, love and attraction. as years go by, i think this really helps. >> we say that the wives marry wonderful men and try to change them. it sounds like carlos has changed for the better. >> yeah. for me the big impact from nfp

is not only that i have a better relationship. another impact is my relationship with god. i was raised protestant but i understood what was behind the teaching. it got me interested in the catholic church. to me, they are right. i wanted to learn more about the catholic church. i started studying the eucharist, baptism, all the sacraments. i started to believe. it was my first communion and my confirmation. >> congratulations. that's wonderful. >> i am fully in the catholic church and i am at peace and very excited. >> i think i want you to tell women what they should get from this. we are not looking necessarily to convert husbands but how can you reassure a woman about this practice and what should it mean to her? >> i would like women to know

there are options available for them. because this is not a very widespread knowledge. i think if women learn more about their bodies and learn how to use natural family planning without the need of adding chemicals, i think that will free them. >> thank you very. can we show a slide of where we can get more information on natural family planning? on the screen we see the san francisco arch diocese website. here you can talk about the cyclical letter from 1968 from pope paul 6th, a controversial document. it's one everybody should read. it's very interesting. next, to learn more, the san francisco arch diocese office of marriage and family life. click our website and look for marriage and family life and you can find everything you need to know and get links to

all kinds of resources in the field. i had the pleasure of meeting your sons. wonderful. thank you. thank you very

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