. >> brennan: back now with more conversation with former secretary of education, arne duncan. we've been talking about the book you wrote and in it, you're very critical of the state of our schools right now. you said there's a lot more work to be done. one specific criticism you say, there's a distinction between proficiency and growth were you're measuring how students perform, you say, notne understands that including the current secretary of educationings betsy devos, what do you mean >> i'm interested on how much n year, the efficiency is on an absolute basis where you are today. i want you to know how much usual getting better each year. so if you're learning two years of material for a year's

instruction is, that's work by the child more importantly the great work for the teacher and we need to recognize that and award that. pretty basic concept for folks who work in education, unfortunately the current secretary of education didn't understand that one. . >> brennan: what exactly is it that you think she's failing to understand or has to improve on >> you probably saw news a crazy met for about a week ago her yacht was found adrift. that represents where they are in in terms of education policy. >> brennan: what does that have to do with it >> the policy adrift, nothing out there of substance, i would argue, high quality access to pre k for every single child, we got high school graduation through 84% we should be trying 90% try and lead the world in

college completion, none of those are on the radar, for me, it was selling our nation short. we have to educate our way. you don't hear any of that. it shouldn't be bipartisan, nonpartisan. >> brennan: one of the things the current secretary has been an advocate for is school choice, what is it specifically that you have a problem with when it comes to you and the public fundings in essence to allow students to go to private schools >> public money should be used to support public schools, high performing charter schools, i just want more high performing schools. less drop-out. >> brennan: isn't are reflection in parent al involvement >> i think it should be used for high quality public education, the vast majority always have and always will go to public schools, we have to make sure they're strong as possibly we need to get the modelling we

need to think about a pre k through 14 model, we've had a k through 12 a, 100 years, high school diploma is great, but it's not enough. you got to think of community college, university beyond that. >> brennan: you make a point we're not training children who enter the current work force, more sort of factory worker mentality. what do you think needs to be added >> how we think critically, solve problems. those are things all employers are looking for, not memorizing things, for me the competition isn't our countries it's can we do it ourselves, our kids are extraordinary, we have to give m halfway. >> brennan: you were secretary of education, the tragedy in sandy hook happened.

we've seen yet another tragedy president trump's watch, marjorie stoneman, but little change at the federal level all at the local. is that what the expectation should be communities how to figure out how to fix it themselves >> i think we all have to do this and i'll say this is our, i think our greatest failing would value of lives of our children, children in other nations don't die like they do here. sandy hook massacre was the worst day president obama's presidency, it was our worst day there, he went out the next day to visit families, no one expected 20 babies five teachers got slaughtered. and fact we got nothing done in terms of legislation, is heartbreaking, i've been pessimistic but students from park land3w florida have given a sense of hope, the young

people i'm working with here in dc, we have raised a generation of teens on mass shootings, gun violence, we've failed as adults and parents to protect them and they're saying they're not going to tolerate it and i'm hopeful the young people that are going to lead our nation will leave that up and that's a place free of trauma and fear. >> brennan: how schools work, arne duncan thank you very much for joining us. we'll be right back with the panel.

play aula

paula. >> brennan: it's time now for some political analysis with our panel. mark land berg covers the white house for the "new york times," lesley sanchez is a cbs news political contribute. sing min kim covers the white house from the "washington post" and paula reid is is a cbs news correspondent. always a lot to chew on. paula. we should have our own legal panel here i feel like there's so much to digest of the let's start with the tweets this morning. he's he is out there defending his son, and saying that he has no concerns about him legally and this meeting that he took at trump tower with the lawyer linked to the kremlin. should he be concerned >> yes, he should be concerned. even m sn should be concerned for himself, donald trump junior has legal exposure here and fabricate that he has not been interviewed by special counsel investigators should concern everyone be typically in an investigation like this you

wants to come in early and gathering evidence from, not the person who walks into the room and they have a pile of evidence and start going through it. his potential legal exposure, the first for anyone who walks into a situation, lying. but in case like this, all these different iterations of what happened at the trump tower meeting is a tremendous exposure, possibility of perjury. he said his father did not know about the trump tower meeting, michael cohen said he did. legally speaking it would be easy to discredit cohen as a witness. the big question is the entire case is was there any coordination or support or assistance with the russians in terms of disseminating the dirt they had. >> brennan: at the time the first version of events given by the white house was that this was meeting about adoption. link to an issue of concern for the russian government the president today said, no, it was about opposition research solely and there's nothing illegal about that >> good news for them, there's

no crime in lying to the press. but what they need to do is figure out what exactly their story is and needs to be supported by the evidence, need to make sure there are no witnesses of other evidence that would contradict that and expose them to lying when they sit down with investigators the special counsel does have questions for the president about why that statement was drafted. misleading people about the reason for this, this meeting. . >> brennan: mark when we had kelly on conaway on the show, she was trying to explain that the president when he uses russian hoax is referring to misunderstandings or misconstruing of facts related to the investigation and nothing to do with what his national security team said. you've been writing about the fact they're saying two different things about the same topic actually, which is the view on russia, period >> this is a recurring theme at the white house, which is efforts of his aides to sort of narrow the scope of what he's saying. when he talks about a russian

hoax, particularly in a tweet some inflammatory ways he does, he's really denigrating the entire effort to get at russian interference in american elections and frankly the guard against interference in the mid terms, i believe this week we saw just amazing split screen where the administration all top intelligence and law enforcement officials beyond the podium at the white house made persuasive presentation about how seriously they're taking the threat and what they're going to try to do. and hours later on a political rally, president trump in effect dismisses whole thing much ado about nothing, for kellyanne conway to say he's only narrowing talking about an investigation, no one in the american public is taking it that way, they're viewing it as what i believe the president intends which is to diminish the importance of the issue and i think the reason he does that, goes back to his own long standing doubts about the legitimacy of his own election and his concern that if he gives

this any credibility, it will reduce his own credibility. and so i think that this split screen is really what matters, and not the after fact attempts by the white house to spin sit. . >> brennan: is the effort here to management public understanding of the russian investigation or the president's own party because what you hear consistently through republic establishment, they stand with the intelligence community and their version of events, not the characterization as a hoax. >> i think it's a little bit. it's a multiple things, in terms of the public perception of russia, and also with we talk about along with the mueller investigation we talk often about how the president's constant tweeting and his attacks on mueller is personally to publicly discredit the investigation, so you do see that kind of with an eye towards what could happen with the potential afraid. >> you saw the shot coming from capitol hill after his comments

in helsinki alongside vladimir puti t president's rhetoric, a lot of times they points look at what dan cooks is saying or director ray, they're satisfied with what the officials are saying but that is a different message coming from his top officials versus the president. >> brennan: you've been out there doing reporting, lesley, does this translate to people at home and people going to go places in november >> big disconnect. what the republican party is thinking they want to buff traditional norms, they want the president not to have the major losses most presidents would have at a mid term election when med terms tend to be a referendum on the president. they're saying wait a minute we've raised $250 million, election cycle. they're ready to marshall those resources on the ground and they understand what the president understands, which is very much at this point the pulse of the people. what used to be a war in the

republican party is now a whisper, because the economy is strong, the president is now 50% approval more or less, congress is still at 10% approval and they see unemployment is low and they can win, they may like agenda they may not like the man. >> brennan: paula to button up one part of the legal question this week, paul manafort was in court last week. he will be headed back there. there was all this color about his personal wealth, clothing, what was the prosecution trying to lay out here in terms of the picture? >> well, continue to remind everyone he is not on trial for having a lot of money and throwing it around, nothing to do with the president or nothing to do with campaign. the allegation is that he made fro lobbying on behalf of ukrainian politicians. but instead of putting it in one of his six houses he had it in a

different bank account luxury purchases and that's where we get some color, the homes-cars, the ostrich coat. the fact that their theory of the case, but it is important to remember we did hear from some is of his accountants, late in the week and there was evidence that some of this conduct in a during form, some of that conduct did extend to his time in the trump campaign. . >> brennan: is there any connection to the president and what has a happened so far? >> no connection to the president, kellyanne conway cited the judge. let's be clear what judge said. during the preliminary hearings, the judge had questions about whether or not taxi vacation or bank fraud whether or not that was in the special counsel's authority, just came out and said, we're not trusted in bank fraud, you're just trying to get this guy to cooperate in your investig w facts and allowed the case to proceed. but on those comments trying say the special counsel investigation and a federal

judge said they were out of bounds but the judge sort of nodded to what's going on here. . >> brennan: turning to the foreign policy, what was in the letter, do we have any idea to kim jong un that was handed off this weekend to north korean official >> we don't know the specifics of what's in that letter. but i think we have a fairly good idea based on president's own characterization of his recent interaction that it was probably a very friendly letter, thanking him for the letter he had sent. and probably setting the predicate for another meeting. there's a lot of talk about maybe doing it at the united nations in september. but again, to go to this recurring theme with this administration, this notion of split screen. you have this very cosy friendly relationship being built between kim and trump, and underneath you have this very combative sometimes bitter negotiations between mike pompeo and his

counterpart on the issue of denuclearation. even when they were handing a letter in singapore to deliver to kim, another was in the united states and mike pompeo for the bad attitude in the negotiations and so what you see and i think it's deliberate on the part of the north koreans is an effort in the way to drive wedge between the president and his own negotiators. kim thinks that president trump is scenario and well meaning and well intentioned and wants to have a good relationship but the pesky diplomats keep demanding that north korea do all these things to denuclear rise. it puts pompeo in a bad spot because he's the guy who has to deliver this deal and he's been forthright about saying he sees a long difficult negotiation ahead of the united states in north korea. . >> brennan: he acknowledged, he said, timeline is going to be up

to chairman kim. the no denuclearation we've seen at the moment. we'll take a quick break. we have so much more to talk about. stay with us. >> dr. stanley: remember this: cannot change the laws of god. when he has visited you in some form of adversity and he brings you through that, that's like he has increased the strength of the foundation of your life and your faith in him. [music]

. >> brennan: we are back now with our panel. seung min kim i want to ask you the president has been out on the campaign trail three times this week, ohio last night ahead of the special election, we also learned that former president obama is going to be hitting the campaign trail soon, and his rs be going head-to-head >> it will be interesting to see if that happens and where they can be the most influential. one could be the george governor's race where we've seen stacy abrams as one of the 80 candidates that the former president put his muscle behind when he made his endorsements over the week but president trump also put his political power behind republican candidate there, remembering that primary and looked as if the more, the perceived more mainstream candidate casey. but president trump weighed in with the tweet. and to can be an interesting occurring all the dynamics and

georgia where the two presidents could go head-to-head. but the president's political power and how much he matters is really going to be on display and that special election, this tuesday, we saw him go last minutes try to get that last minute surge for republican try bolderson ahead of the election on tuesday, but people are already drawing parallels to the special election we had in pennsylvania back in march, where it was very republic district. he had won by 20 points but it was the democrats who surged to victory in that race, there's a lot of nervousness among the republic party. this is seat that went for president trump by 11 points, a seat that the republic should win but outside groups are pouring so much money into this race and it will be a major backlash for republic ans on tuesday. .

>> brennan: people like to think to that's the case, but i think there's a lot of movement, under current. we say it's a big blue wave with a lot of pink votes, the female candidates. coming in and we like, but and this case, when the president says most cases, resources get the party behind it and put all those dollars inning that was really the message of the summer meeting in austin, you get on board or get out. this president is going to win, you need to get his message and really champion that. >> in ohio last night. >> and the word is coming down, which is why i say the republic an party went from a roar to a whisper. he's winning. and the nontraditional place like congressional district 31, mj hager the female helicopter pilot which is raising four times as much as her opponent, she used to be a republic.

and republic women are taking her seriously and looking at holding fund-raisers for her, there's a lot of if you recollects what the swing districts or even republic an districts is looking like >> seems like some of the things during his own campaign seem to locate in terms of immigration and the press. mark. enemy of the people. kellyanne conway said she doesn't believe that the media is an enemy of the people. this is obviously useful for the president. he cites it frequently. why does he argue this >> well, as you say, it plays wonderfully with his base, and it's been a hit for him throughout the campaign and continues to be one of the most poputhn you go to a trump rally, it always has a feel of ritual now and there are certain things people who go to opportunity to start chanting cnn sucks and to turn around and

you know, villify the people standing in the mediapen. that's why he does it. i think that the problem that we're running into is that his repeated phrase enemy of the people and he did it this morning when he suggested people of media cause wars to happen is that that phrase is particularly loaded. the phrase fake news, which he also uses is corrosive to the credibility of the media over time, it's unfair, he shouldn't use it. but the phrase enemy of the people i think is a whole different order of magnitude. it has a long historic providence, it goes back to the french revolution, it goes back to stalin, lend non, those in those total tearian society use the phrase to suggest that one group of so it's was sub human and by doing so it opened the door to all kinds of violence being carried out against them.

i'm not saying that president trump understands the historical providence this phrase, but people who are seeing it out in the world certainly do. so by using it over and over again, the way he does, i think he opens the door to the possibility of bad things happening. now, we've been really lucky, we've been through many, many rallies during the campaign and since he's been president, and there really hasn't been a spill over to outright violence, it's been more in the realm of reporters, and it's scary, but you know, i don't think any of us have really had any anyone take a swing at us. but the fear i have is if by continuing to do this by normalizing this language, making it part of the vocabulary of the country, he ask open the door to have some violence happen down the road and i think that's extraordinarily dangerous. >> brennan: that's why i asked many of us find it uncomfortable talking about journalists seeing themselves ourselves.

paula, family separation. tell me where we are with the administration trying to reunify families. >> not completely done, there's a long way to go. and this is one of the clearest example of the president sort of coming out with a policy, not all to keep players being on the same page. that's exactly what we saw with the travel ban, yes, it's a new policy, no this isn't a new policy and they've created quite a legal quagmire for themselves, so there's still a lot of work to be done in terms of reunifying the families and the question is what exactly is the administration's policy at this motel and if you cross the border into the u.s. illegally will you be detained together as a family? separated? what exactly happens to you. >> brennan: roughly 400 or so families. thank you very much. we will be right back in a moment. fact is, every insurance company hopes you drive safely.

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. >> brennan: that's it for us, thank you for watching. until next week, we'll be back with you then with a look at race in america, one year after charlottesville. for ""face the nation" i'm margaret brennan. ♪ . ♪ . ♪ captioning sponsored by cbs captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

damage control. president trump continues to muddle the message about russian interference in the u.s. elections, prompting his top advisors to explain what he really means. >> he's been very clear about that. >> also tonight, the wildfires in northern california claim another life as thousands more are forced to leave their homes. the body cam video shows a florida deputy making a decision. in venezuela officials have arrested six people claiming they used a drone to try and assassinate president maduro. and more violent protests in