captioning sponsored by cbs >> brennan: it's sunday august 19 i'm margaret brennan this is "face the nation." fighting a wave of negative publicity sparked by the release of a tell-all book along with embarrassing secret audio recordings, president trump tried to change the subject. he revoked a security clearance of one of his harshest critic, cia chief john brennan he threatened to do the same with another nine national security

officials he either disagrees with or fires. among the dozens of former intelligence officials who swiftly condemned his fm him. our cbs news battleground tracker shows a race for control of the house could be shifting. we'll take a look at the critical role of female voters and the record breaking number of women running for office. two democrats, kirsten gillibrand and jennifer wexton joins us. kristi noem joins us with the republican perspective, first female governor? it's all coming up on "face the nation." good morning and welcome to "face the nation." the president's efforts to silence his c notdiemrom tore

speech. fr ciaec for, former director of national security and mike hayden all appeared this morning in their roles at network contributors. we spoke earlier with former cia director leon panetta asked him why he opposed the president's actions? >> security clearances are critical to our national security. and decisions regarding security clearances ought to be based on national security issues. our concern now is that security clearances are going to be used as a political tool to go after people that the president doesn't agree with or issues that the president may not agree with. and we think that undermines the importance of security clearances particularly when it comes to national security. >> brennan: the white house has said that there are at least nine others under review in terms of potentially having their security clearances

revoked. it is the president's prerogative to be able to do this. should it remain that way? >> well, the president obviously has power with regards to security clearances. but his power is also limited by an executive order that makes very clear that when it comes to the revocation of a security clearance that it has to be based on national security issues not the politics of somebody, not what that person has said, not how they dress, not how they look, but based on national security issues. this president is now going after people and the indication that i saw is that he's going to provide these names to the press office to use this issue when it's a bad news day, so that it can cover that particular news story. i think that's a real misuse of

not only security clearances i think it's a misuse of the office of the president. >> brennan: is there any restraint on being able to do that? >> well, obviously congress would be important if congress decided that it was important to protect the process for security clearances to take action. i think the other issue here is that there is an executive order that is in place, it was signed by bill clinton, it was updated by president bush, it was followed by president obama, and this president has to abide by that executive order unless he's prepared to change it. that executive order lays out a process for revoking security clearances, this president is not above the law. he's required to follow that executive order. >> brennan: are you suggesting that that may not have actually revoked brennan's clearance that this may not actually be a valid action? >> well, i think there are

questions raised as to whether or not this president has followed the executive order. and whether or not he's provided due process to those that are going to have their security clearances revoked. yes, president of the united states has power. but that power is limited by the constitution and by the checks and balances in our system. i think the president has to adhere to those kinds of requirements. >> brennan: you are a former director of the cia just like john brennan. so let's look at what some of john brennan's statements have been recently that the president has taken um bridge at he called president trump behavior nothing short of trees onaus, do you think statements like that over steps boundaries of what is appropriate for an official of your level? >> whether one agrees or disagrees with what john brennan said, is not the issue. we have something called free

speech in this country. and whether you're a former cia director or whether you're a former president of the united states, or whether you're just a citizen on the street you have a right to free speech. to say what you think about our country and our president. >> brennan: should there be a different -- should there be different standard for public commentary coming from former national security officials because of this blurring of the lines? >> well, i'm a believer in the broad interpretation of the right of free speech in this country. the president certainly exercises it. and i think all of us ha of a right to ex are sighs that. now if somebody uses classified information or reveals classified information or misuses that in a way while he's exercising a viewpoint i think that crosses a line. but that was not the case here.

john brennan spoke according to his views of what the president was or was not doing, that in my book is what free speech is all about. and it needs to be protected. >> brennan: sect panetta, thank you for joining us. we turn now to the mid term election. our cbs news ugov battleground tracker shows although control of the house to technically still a toss up, the contest is edging to the democrats. and women voters are playing a critical role. there's also now a record number of women candidates winning their party's nomination for house, senate and for governor. but the number of female democratic candidates outed numbers republicans three to one. governor of south dakota and if she wins, she will be the first woman to hold that office in her home

state. good to have you with us this morning, congresswoman. >> good morning, margaret, thank you for inviting me. >> brennan: before we get to the elections, ask as republican are you comfortable with president trump to revoke and threaten to revoke security clearance on what appear to be political grounds? >> you know, obviously in this instance, there was national security concerns, it appears that at times brennan has put political purposes above national security, what is astounding realizing there's is over five million people that have security clearances. so there's -- >> brennan: what national security grounds, the white house has not provided any detail by any violations. >> there is information that the white house has that none of us are privy. to it's important to know that the number one priority needs to be continue to be national security. and when we're looking at these types of situations that someone appears to have put political purposes above national security, then that's ground for

review view. >> brennan: what i hear you saying you agree with the president. let me move on to the election here. in your race out in south dakota you said that when it came to your primary you think you actually lost a few points because of your gender, sometimes republican men are reluctant to put a woman in that executive office. do you think that is a problem just in your state or is it a problem nationally? >> overwhelmingly in my primary we talked about my experience, my experience running businesses, starting businesses, serving at the state level in the legislature and leadership then also my knowledge of federal policy and how it. pacts our state. that was really brought forward in that primary election that's what we're talking about in the general. i think that as we look across the country, women don't just want to talk about women's issues. we want to talk about everything that's important to our economy, to jobs, to our children's futures, and that's what we focused on in south dakota

discussion. >> brennan: what did you mean when you said that your gender cost you a few political points? >> you know, there's always a time when someone is the first person to be nominated in a state and to run and to be elected potentially to leadership position in your state where that is a new experience for people. so we had discussion on that, but overwhelmingly the people in south dakota are looking for the best person to sit in that job that can provide the leadership to address some of the challenges that we see, that we face. we're very small state but that also means that we can be nimble we have unique opportunity here for some states and governors to stand up and address policies that would give us testimony of what we can do in this country to put it back on its foundati foundation. >> brennan: what do you think accounts for the fact that it is three times the number of democratic female stand dates who are running versus republicans? >> you know i think most of the time when i'm looking at women running for office they need to be recruited.

i often think back to when we were going to be electing a new majority leader in the house of representatives, that night as soon as there was an opening i got all kinds of texts from men that were serving in the house saying i want to be the majority leader will you help you. >> brennan: is your parrot doing enough to recruit candidates? >> i think believe so. across the country that we have folks out there who -- women tend to think, i don't know if i could do that job. men often think i can do that job in an amazing manner, so it's our perspective as women, political parties play an important role. women need to be recruited they node need to know they're going to have some support there that will help them on their path to victory. >> brennan: congresswoman because you are republican i want to ask you about the president's language. he has referred this week to former senior white house official as a dog and a low li life. he often references physical attributes, he's been accused by

at least 19 women of sexual misconduct. does any of that make you uncomfortable as a member of his party? >> to be very clear i don't think there's anyone that would say that they approve of any kind of sexual misconduct and we've seen many important people fall when they have gone through the judicial process of that being confirmed that isn't where the president is today but i tend to not focus on dissecting the president's tweets or his language, i'm focused on policies, that's what my job is. it's to look at solutions that will really bring relief to the people in my state, but also to people in this country. i worked very closely with the white house on tax reform. i was one of the last in lead negotiators in the house to deliver that because of that, women businesses are better off, women's information are going up that kind of results of what makes big difference in the day-to-day lives of the people. >> brennan: congresswoman, thank you very much for joining us. when we come back we'll hear

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if you don't like their answer, ask again at schwab. talk with new york democratic senator kirsten gillibrand and jennifer wexton from northern virginia. we began by asking why a record number of women are running this year. >> you draw a direct line between president trump's election and number of women running now? >> absolutely. >> brennan: based on not demographic shifts but just pure protests? >> protests, anger, frustration and determination to protect their families. >> brennan: running in a district that's been held by republicans since the '80s what you're seeing in terms of your polls what do you attribute that to? >> i attribute to my background. i'm a mom. i'm a normer prosecutor from the heart of the district and i'm a state senator during my tenure

in the senate has over 0 bills. >> brennan: why do you feel comfortable saying i'm a mom and that's a good thing? >> we bring great things to the table as women we are able to check our egos at the door and work together and deliver results. as moms we are able to prioritize and multi-task all the many thinks things that help us a ledge sleigh we emphasize the issues. >> brennan: do you think, though, in this particular race it's unusual, you're a woman running against another woman here, barbara comstock, does that change the dynamic of the ce cn tt of mans a woman. but when you have a one who is not voting in a way that helps other women it's time to replace >> brennan: there's a record number of women running against other women in addition to just

being out there in the first place and putting themselves on the line on the ballot. would you also attribute to president trump? >> i think donald trump has a lot to do witness. i think a lot of women woke up after the november election in 2016 and realized that democracy is a lot more fragile than any of us wanted to admit. only way we'd change things would be to get off the sidelines and run ourselves. >> brennan: the fact that donald trump has been accused by more than a dozen of women of sexual assault has infuriated women enough to do something they might not have done but all those things came to light, when he was accused of these things running as candidates. >> fair enough. but the response to him being elected i think is overwhelmingly desire of women to be heard, to be counted and to fight back against what he

stands for and what he said. he demeans women, he devalues women, constant plea trying to harm our families and our communities so women when they know their family is being harmed they will run through fire. they will do whatever it takes to protect their family. >> brennan: he would argue as with the white house he's not anti-women. he's actually endorsed your opponent. >> i would just read a twitter feed, he does not support women. >> brennan: the president made that personal. rallied this week up in your home state of new york and when he endorsed the woman running against you he slammed you, he was tough on you and said that you basically had no accomplishments. he hit you for coming and asking and speaking campaign contributions in the past. how do you respond? >> i think it was a very weak attack. frankly was surprised it was the best he could do. but president trump does not have a relationship with the

facts. and as a new yorker he certainly should know that i've passed 9/11 health bill twice. to give healthcare to our first responders and families that live in the community. as the commander in chief he should know that i led the charge in don't ask, don't tell. if he wants to come campaign against me in new york any time, he's welcome. >> brennan: did you hear some of his criticisms like his hit at you for asking for campaign contributions as gendered? >> yes. it was clearly a sexist smear and intended specifically to silence me. >> brennan: why did you hear it that way. >> dozens of women who came out against him for sexual assault and sexual harass the. because of what he said. >> brennan: this week, the president referred to a former senior white house aide as a dog. somebody worked with him for years. what did you hear when he said that phrase, dog? >> i hear again a very sexist

smear that is intended to demean her. has ->> brenn: he's usedt pa tordso over again. he is intending to demean and devalue a former staff member and he's done that to women of color over many months that he's been president. >> brennan: and endorsing female candidates, successful campaign manager, kellyanne conway who is advisor now says that it's absurd to accuse him of being in any way sexist, actually says, that she is being treated because she's republican that her contributions aren't recognized by fellow women. >> i think she's wrong. and he can support women candidates who don't share our values. to assume they are is equally absurd. >> brennan: do you think see more female candidates run in 200? >> i certainly hope so. >> brennan: does 2018 get replicated or what happens in november is going to decide who

we see run against president trump? >> what happens in november is go dur country looks like. that election is a referendum on president trump, on the fact that he doesn't represent most americans. that his values don't line up with most persons and so being heard in this election sets the stage for everything in the future. >> brennan: do you see it as test case for 020 that there could be again the democrat can candidate a woman? >> i think you'll have many women run in 2020, a lot -- >> brennan: will you run? >> i'm running for senate and running for re-election in my state. which is a good thing. that is a good thing to have more women running. >> brennan: if you win that re-election you're not precluding running in 2020 for president? >> i'm solely focused on '18 i any all of us are. >> brennan: we'll come back to you after november.

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>> brennan: what's on the minds of women voters. leading up to november. we talked with five women two, who vote for trump and three were clinton voters. in the same virginia district in which jennifer wexton hoping to replace barbara comstock. we bee gyp with trump whether he respects women. >> i don't agree with his personal behavior. i find it reprehensible. but i believe deeply that he cares for thises values and my w of where the country should be headed in spite of the fact that his personality sometimes too much of. >> brennan: have you seen

anything positive so far from president trump? >> to be honest, no. i cannot think of one policy that he has implemented since in office has been for women. >> brennan: can you think of one policy, tell me, please. >> about $150 a paycheck more almost $5,000 in bonuses in raises this year. hire more people. and for women we have lowest unemployment of 65 years. >> brennan: how many think that the president truly respects women? >> i don't think it's a matter of respect. he hires a lot of

i think he respects -- >> brennan: you're saying, no? what do you mean? >> i do not think he reps women. i think that women for him they are a means to an end. i'm sitting here and i'm -- i'm baffled talking to you, i feel as if we are in the midst of the illusion where i hear yanni and you hear laurel. i'm amazed. >> i feel the same. >> i'm amazed. >> brennan: you're a business woman. >> absolutely. >> i feel as if i benefit because of what i have put in. absolutely. and that's different. that's the key. it's not somebody else created it you created it. but the environment in which you

are in now there are people today that have jobs that can give you money for your services that couldn't do that two years ago. >> brennan: that's a different question than does he respect women. >> no. but getting back to it. i don't think donald trump respects anybody but donald trump. >> brennan: does he respect women? >> i don't know. none of us do. whether he does or doesn't we don't know what they -- >> i don't believe i hear sexism. >> when he chooses to tweet things out himself and recording of him saying things you can't say well, we don't know. because we do know. because he put it out of his own mouth. >> brennan: we'll have much more from our focus group when we come back. i'm beating this. my main focus was to find a team of doctors. it's not just picking a surgeon, it's picking the care team and feeling secure in where you are. visit cancercenter.com/breast

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>> brennan: welcome back to "face the nation." here is more of our conversation with women voters in virginia. what do you think here in virginia of the idea that two women are running against each other? >> that's great. >> airplane food, hospital food. >> neither one -- >> brennan: have you made up your mind yet? >> yes. >> i would vote for barbara comstock. >> brennan: the three of you are going the other way? >> absolutely. and do you view that as vote against donald trump when you to go vote for democratic candidate? >> northern virginia like

all of you and i live in the luckette area that barbara comstock has not done enough to alleviate basic things that are going on in my community. >> brennan: do you view this as referendum on president trump? >> the whole election? probably has turned to that. >> brennan: when you're casting your vote. >> when i cast my vote i usually cast my vote for, again, the person that i think is most likely to represent my values and my principles and the good for the country or the state of virginia. >> brennan: you all do think there will be female president? >> eventually. >> i'm 50 years i think-- thougt possibly in november o would have seibheirst female presiden m t it will happen

within the next ten years. i don't believe it will happen. >> brennan: maria you're a millennial, are you feeling motivated this november in a way that perhaps you didn't in the past? >> i think in a way, yes, i think that it's so polarizing, i think that a lot of people of my generation agree with that. >> brennan: do you think you've all become more politically activated since president trump. >> my family has become way more political. my sister very introverted she is out there, she's canvassing, she is creating her own pac because she is that motivated, so am i. i never really voted in an election. i wasn't registered to vote because i chose not to. i didn't want my data out l. now i'm like okay, have my data i've become more political. it is polarizing. >> i've always been fascinated,

i grew up in michigan, my father was a very strong union democrat. and i was in middle school when the air traffic controllers went on strike. and president reagan said if you don't go back to work you're going to be fired. i was 10, 11, 1, i don't remember. my first thought was, well, if you don't go to work then you should be fired. those were conversation, is that i really couldn't have in my household. i definitely think -- so i have always been more issue driven. >> brennan: is the fact that a candidate is a woman or that she's a mother count as sort of a bonus for you, do you view that as a positive thing? >> no. >> not necessarily, no. >> brennan: gender doesn't influence whether you favor a candidate? >> never has. >> almost never. >> i'm trying to think if there is an instance where i just picked a woman over a man and i don't believe that i have. i think again it's an issue for

me. >> at the same time really women in politics is still very young. as more women have been political figures for longer they're going to be stronger candidates. i believe for that reason that there will be a woman president hopefully -- >> i hope so. >> brennan: do you think that washington would function better if there were more women in elected office? >> no. >> i think that -- i think the swamp is so engrained -- >> brennan: none of you think women act differently as leaders? >> they do act differently as leaders. i am several layerszi. i'm in the i.t. field. that's what makes it even bett better. they are strong and they are candid and they actually care. like they really do care.

but i thinkhatn you get to congress what ends up happening it becomes -- it's a job. like it's a job. they forget constituency they do the same thing that any other man, senator or a male -- >> if there were more women. the number is still small would that change? >> it might change. i was in the military, right? it was female, so when we were all together it was -- when you have that camaraderie you actually build each other up and make each other stronger but we have same goal. we were going for the same goal. it's not the same in congress. not going for the same goal because you represent different people and their goals are different. i don't think that it would be more. but i do agree with maria if more women in there the stronger that they will be. >> brennan: do all of you think that women are in better police now than they were in 2016? >> i do.

>> no. i don't think anyone is actually better. i really don't. especially when you're looking -- they say something you're like, you are that type of supporter then that just puts distance between you. no one is better. women or men, children, nobody is better. animal they're not better either. sorry. >> brennan: thank you, ladies, very much. >> thank you. >> appreciate it. >> brennan: we'll be right back with our panel, stay with us. (harmonica interrupts) how they could save 15% or more by... (harmonica interrupts) ...by just calling or going online to geico.com. (harmonica interrupts) (sighs and chuckles) sorry, are you gonna... (harmonica interrupts) everytime.

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>> brennan: we're back now with our political panel. leslie sanchez is cbs news political contributor. ed o'keefe is our political correspondent here at cbsnd amy walter is the national editor of the "cook political report" and anthony salvanto is our director of elections and he's here today with batch of new poll numbers from the cbs news battleground tracker. anthony, what has changed this summer? >> the democrats have moved into a stronger position to take back the house. we had them earlier this summer getting just over that magic number of 218. here we have inching up to 222 but i need to caution here, there's margin of error around that like there is with any poll on this estimate. that margin of error still has range where the republicans

could still hold the house, there are scenarios where they haven't. emphasize within that, all these districts are very close we're looking at very small swings among these voters just a few more republican women who are a little bit hesitant to say they're going to back the republican candidate. lot of enthusiasm among democrats but some who have not voted before. a lot of moving parts. underneath that edge. >> brennan: you mentioned women, as voting block they don't all go in the same direction you are starting to see a real shift in how women are voting this election. >> one of the biggest breaks if you look at college-noncollege difference we start to see this in the last presidential election and in these districts it's important, there's a double digit edge for democrats among women with college degrees here. and also tell us that there are more likely to say their vote is as you heard in your panel, vote against the president.

that's different from men who are inclined to say they're voting in support of the president and i should emphasize these battleground districts are battle grounds because they have relatively more college graduate women in them so by definition that's part of what is going on. >> brennan: leslie, i guess the question then is for these college educated women who maybe in the past have voted republican are they comfortable crossing over in this election or do they stay in a partisan position when they go to the voting booth? >> the president won about 40% of those college educated, i would look at the other side, 60% of noncollege educated white women particularly were the ones that voted. if you look at the pool if it were white women they were more inclined to vote for the president so of dividing line comes on race if you look at hispanic women, african american women or women who aren't republicans, their family votes republican that is where you're going to be the dividing line.

the suburbs, maybe be more ticket splitters, can she hold conservative college educated women. more of these folks will fall on the republican camp than democratic one. >> brennan: how much of that is a trump effect? >> remarkable thing i think that is happening historically, anthony talked about this you expect 30 seats to be lost for president party in power. with the president trying to do is buy history and basically say, can i nationalize my local trump voters to support a local candidate. if he can do that get out to all those states he wants to get to, those last 30 days that changes this from a referendum which normally is on the president's policies and character to a nationalized election saying that we fear open borders, we have a strong economy, you have to keep, be patient wait for the long term effect. challenge, lee brings up a good point, who is

more motivated to vote in this election. we've been seeing all these specialty plex for the house democrats have been out performing their traditional vote percentage. they have been turning out at a higher percentage. and my colleague looked at the specialtyl in ohio where you have a great combination around columbus suburbs and more rural parts of ohio. in the columbus suburbs where you see lot of these voters like we saw in suburban virginia they turned out about 60% of their 2016 average. they were turning out very high rate for special election. in the very trump rural parts of the district, trump went into this district and campaigned, the vice president went in to this district and campaigned only turned out 40%. there is also a limit, i think there was one voter in there, i can't remember her name, who mentioned about i'm going to vote for -- i'm republican but i really don't like congress. that is really the challenges,

trump's success was based on the fact that he trashed all of congress including republican members of congress. he spent most of 2017 attacking mitch mcconnell, attacking the ineptness of the republican in congress to pass obamacare repeal. goes back into those voters say, i know you like me, you like that i shake it up but i need you to vote for the establishment. that i keep attacking that's a very difficult thing to do. >> we were in ohio in that district with special elections two weeks ago it was fascinating when you speak with women voters especially. how many are saying i'm here because of the president. i'm voting against the president. i want nothing to do with him or anyone that sports them the polling backs that up. majority say that the candidate much show their views on donald trump to get that vote. we were seeing that vividly every time we talked to a woman in that district. it just makes you wonder if you

have that 60% threshold how to is going -- how much is this going to scramble the traditional model that have been used to determine how many people are going to show up. if democrats show up in large numbers it scrambles things. >> brennan: we were just showing a graphic that i'd like you to explain, what are the issues that make people show up particularly women? i know healthcare is something that polls very high. >> it keeps popping up, every time he we say, what is going to be the determinative thing, even if everybody is not talking about it it keeps coming up in the polls. for women we ask, what is it about health care, it's cost, it's cost. and allotted of folks who say, they don't feel that the changes republican congress has made so far have either affected them or affected them for the better. one of the things we talk about what voters are saying and doing versus what national politics, campaigns are saying and doing.

it does appear to be a little bit of disconnect. >> brennan: we saw this in our own assessment of the ad, is that have been run, through the end of jewel. democrats overwhelm cannily talking about health care much more than talking about donald trump. >> i think that that is always been a blind spot for the republican party. they talk about it, yes, in terms much cost. but women say i'm not going to get to go to the good doctor when they're talking about choice, doctors opting out, preexisting conditions that they agree on but there's some myth out there that all of a sudden preexisting conditions wouldn't be covered if you tried to change the current system. i think the other interesting part no matter what policy that is my question, no matter what policy you put forward not going to change women's verdict on the tax reform and does infrastructure, it's not going to matter on that. yet it isn't necessarily

precluding them from voting republican. a is we heard from congresswoman noem she seemed reluctant to criticize the president. >> that might be more because there's is solid red conservative or solid republicans. the interesting part if you contrast that what are the democrats giving them. if you look at gallup local that talks about there's more of openness and more favorability for socialism than there ever has been for capitalism that is the first time since 2010. dome contracts are starting to see that in more positive light what does ha mean in contrast to republicans who are much more capital list oriented, they like the strong economy, at least gives them place to go. >> i thought it was interesting in our conversation with those voters when i asked women about whether having more female representatives would change washington. they pretty much said, no, everyone is a swamp creature once they get there. >> why i find that interesting is if you look at congressional history there is some evidence to suggest that women actually are push can things along.

there was period where you had women either running or top partisan member of the budget appropriations, agricultural committees all of those big bills were moving at the same time they ought got through with very little drama all of those members said, part of the loan this happened is because women were pushing it along. more willing to meet with their counterparts, more willing to compromise and remain laser focused. i would war the reverse that in fact i think we have seen evidence in recent years if women get in there, end up in positions where they are moving legislation along things could get done a lot faster. >> brennan: when you were asking questions you are very careful and specific in polling in how you phrase things. you asked about trump's handling of issues that affect women. >> right. >> brennan: i thought it was interesting in that focus groups to hear people define whatssue . you heard from jackie that trump

supporter for her all it meant was the economy. that's across the board. >> very purposefully whatever it means to you. because what we found was that for people who supported the president and for republican recommend in fact, they said they were primarily concerned with how he managed the government. but for democratic women it became much mother personal, it became about whether or not he shared their culture and values, they told us, or even how he handled himself personally. that can be an issue that affects them as well. so sometimes you want to leave it open because you want to listen to people rather than impose something on them and say, check the box, yes or no. and again, to sort of reemphasize the differences here are subtle. we're talking about single digits between moderates and republicans, all of which could and very well might shift as we go on but it defines contours what people are going to argue about. >> hospital food, airplane food.

>> brennanha we'll be back in just a moment to talk some more with anthony salvanto about understanding polling.

lling and the science bind the numbers. now, sharing his wisdom with everyone in his new book "where did you get that number?" he's going to help unvail the mysteries of polling. anthony, thank you for taking the time. it's an interesting read. you talk about -- open with that pivotal moment on the night of the 2016 election when so many people started saying, the pollsters, they didn't predict this. they got it wrong. what do you think is the biggest misconception about polls? >> one.>> re predictions. i at there going to think. my job is to understand what people think. and why they think it. i think too often whether it's in the coverage of polling or even sometimes the way we talk about it, we make it sound like

we're covering a horse race and we're the score keepers. >> brennan: the bottom line. >> people just ask, who is going to win? as though that single number, the leader in a poll tells you the whole story. even today if we say the democrats are leading in the race for the house. doesn't mean they're going to win it means that's where things stand now. in a lot of ways, i think that is more powerful and better use of polling, because when people ask how these things work, what they really want to know is, who are these people around me. you saw even in the panel where people were talking to each other, i didn't know that about you or now i understand you a little bit better. when we see the polling and people are telling us this is what i think, this is why they think it. those are the thing that people really want to know so our job as pollsters you should judge us, should judge us not on whether we predict the world but whether we explain it. >> brennan: people's thinking involves with events and over time.

yo put an analogy in grandthe grandmother's bowling -- explain that. >> pollsters have always said that what we do is try to create a microcosm of the country in our polling samples. that's how polls work. because people ask all the time how do you talk to a thousand or 2,000 people and know the whole country? it's countser intuitive. >> brennan: who are these people? >> who do you talk to ho do we find them. the example that i use is, well, you you can do this with a sample and my grandmother used to sit around on sundays and make giant pot of spaghetti sauce if you wanted to know how tted, it tasted really good by the way. everybody would get a bowl. you didn't need to eat the entire vat of spa get fee sauce to -- of spaghetti sauce. what is the mechanism. the meatball that you got tasted

like it's a meatball that you didn't eat from the vat or the salt where like the other grains of salt. in a polling sample what you're doing is bring can together republicans and democrats and people young and old and every different sort. so when people say, well you didn't call me for the poll, you didn't talk to anyone about -- that i know. well, we probably talked to somebody like you and somebody who could represent you. if you're republican there are millions of others. there are certain power in that that we can represented in our views by somebody else who is like us in the sample. >> brennan: how honest are people? >> no, they don't lie. i think because most people are decent and honest they don't realize how much work it would take to lie. first of all why would you spend ten minutes on the phone. >> brennan: you do talk about reluctance to sometimes be fully candid about who you're voting for. ng outritance in the sense of -- non018 as well. when we see republicans today

telling us that they're not necessarily voting for ate,y're telling us that they are unsure. so they are certainly not telling us, they haven't made up their mind. the way we should read that number even if it's just five or 10% who are saying that, is, we should say, well, they're very conservative and they voted republican in the past. so is that a group that we shouldn't be surprised that they ultimately come home and vote for republican? no. we shouldn't. that's way to look at polling as entire dynamic. of telling you what could happen in the world. when people answer say that they're not -- they're unsure we take them at their word but we should also look at other characteristics about them think what might they do and what else are they going to decide on. >> brennan: watch them and see which way they swing. you'll be doing that. thank you. we'll be right back. if you have moderate to severe

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>> brennan: that's it for us today. thank you for watching. we'll see you next week for "face the nation" i'm margaret brennan. captioning sponsored by cbs captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

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