good morning and welcome to mosaic i am i am honor to be your host. san francisco bay area characterized to part by being a place that encourages and nourishes set self-discovery and we want to invite you no a wonderful conversation with marnie hall and jim who discovered that you are jewish welcome marnie and jim. >> thanks for inviting us. >> how did you discover you are jewish. >> when i was 30, i had grown up as a wasp and gone to episcopal church and my parents were long dead and my sift here

is older another generation older, she was 19 she took me aside and said did you have any idea our family was jewish, i was absolutely god smacked i had no idea i thought there was a secret but thought the family was mexican because my mother was dark and she spoke spanish and came from texas. so, finding out that i was a jew was so startling. it was a revelation. >> and jim. >> i was 54 and had been estranged from my mother and reconnected with they are and she said i have something very important to tell you. i don't want you to find out after i am dead. and she said repeatedly you are jewish you are jewish you are jewish. and finally i said well, mom if i am jewish that means you are jewish. oh, no, dear. i never had any affinity or affiliation with judaism and i

am not going to start now. and like marnie said it was a revelation. and in some ways i felt like i had been waiting my whole life to hear this news, and the plates were realigning. >> so for each of you, you've little bit of a sense of you had a little bit of internal rumbling, a secret waiting for this revelation. and wonder if you can talk a little more about what is that, that was at work in terms of jewishness. >> well, it made me reflect h thought certain episodes. they were very startling and anomalies in my background. i remember there was a farm o,n adequately by my family said you must all be jews and i repeated that and saw the

consternationripple through the family and i had no idea what it meant. i also had a baby book where everything fell out except one one baptismal certificate that was stamped in and would never fall out and i put -- i started connecting dots and thinking there were clues all along. and there were dots and things i came home from boarding school and told an anti-semitic joke and my brother who knew as my sister had, he got so upset and he never got upset with me. so i thought back in my history was revealed in a whole different light. >> interesting, and jim, for you? >> well, for me, and the teeming with was interesting, i had written an essay at the museum of jewish heritage for the thantology that i coed ited with my friend -- edited with my friend called identity and wanting to be who we are not. it was about identification and

i wanted to be jewish. cried at -- i lit the menorah and went to the jewish film festival. my boyfriends were all jewish. and so i was like what is this about? and so this had been written some years earlier and was published and a months later, my mother -- a month later, my mother tells me this news and i am thinking, oh, it's not just- have i, i have -- i am but it was like a cellular level my body knew something that i didn't really know or understand. >> and in the jewish community, a lot of people who are born and raised jewish, and then in the jewish culture have this sense of it's in our cells. eds in our community. it's in our bodies. and, so we develop a certain kind of embodiedness about being jewish and so when with we hear people say things like,

i just knew it inside myself i. didn't quite know what it was. it got affirmed. it's a kind of cultural cueing that i am sure you see. and so, part of a natural question ends up being, where-- do you know where the gap happened? do you know where there was a place where jewer identity stopped be overt and somehow got lost, but still known under the surface? do you know in any of your cases your past family. framework. >> that's a really interesting question. because i think for my family, it goes way, way back atorcivil war. d sothey had a running start on assimilation in a way. >> oh. >> and so when up, show was determined not to be jewish. so she changed the family story and was just determined that because a lot of anti-semitism

in texas and around 1905 when show was born you can imagine. so, i think what you are saying is interesting in the sense of i think there were a lot of cues and all kinds of cues as i look back on it that i didn't understand because i was not around jews that i now of as a child. we were pout in the country no jews around no synagogue nothing. but there are all kinds of ways of being in the world, values and foods and all ceendz of -- kinds of things that really were educational, kind of value, and ethical sort of standards that i think were basically jewish. >> wonderful. we will take a quick break. and we will come back to this conversation with man -- marnie and jim in a moment on mosaic.

good morning and welcome back to mosaic. we are in the middle of a wonderful conversation with marnie hall and jim about the ways in which they respectfully discovered -- rere-- respectively discovered they were jewish. we were talking about your background and how you came to understand you are jewish. and i wonder if you can share once you discovered you were jewish how you came into the jewish community and approached the jewish community.

resources you used. how did you start out? >> my first stop was the jewish community library's jewish genealogical society meeting and i went with the very vague pieces of information my mother had given me. and i tried to figure out if any of it was true or if there was documentation of anything. and fairly quickly, discovered that one of the researchers found my grandfather's world war i draft application which said theodore burns and then burnstein. and -- bernstein and lievedsc and d been born in brook lentlin. he was born in and immigrated in 1906. so, that was my mother had some confused pieces of that. and then my grandmother who was

pursian and her name was simon and discovered fairly quickly her mother's maiden name was david david and her mother's maiden name was levy. so it didn't get much more jewish than that. but what my -- so my both my grandparents with my -- my mother's parents were closeted/assimilateed and my mother believed -- assimilated and my mother believed they may not have known about each other's hidden jewish identity. >> fascinating. and marnie for yourself. >> the first step was to go hope to -- home to my lover and tell her i was jew. my lover was jewish. my shsaid, i you had a. >> a jewish mind. >> yeah. yes. >> yeah. >> and so that was my first stop as far as my immediate community. and then i went back and i found my relatives in texas and

i went and they had some -- i started communicating with them and they had a huge family reunion and brought in all the cousins i had never known and i went back and it was so funny because southern jews are half southern. and so they all had hospitality bags for everybody from out of town. it was such an interesting hybrid of culture. >> what's a hospitality bag. >> that's interesting you don't know. when you go, they pride themselves southerners on being hospitable so they had goodies and barbeque sauce and treats that were from texas inside. and then inside the bag for the relatives who were from out of town for this reunion. i mean, it was such an interesting history -- and they collected this material so i found out about the family history. they are very proud of it. and, so, the community for me, my community, has to do with a lot to do with my ancestors that i reclaimed my ancestors who i never knew about.

but i am very proud of them. they were -- they started the first synagogue in austin. and they are, you know, down to earth, ethical people, and they were pardon working and smart and utterly -- i mean they were -- they pros sperred in-- prospered in spite of anti- semitism in texas. >> it's interesting you come to judeish as an adult. you came really with your full selves certainly with your life experience. >> yes. >> and i am wondering if you can talk -- it's a big question but talk a little bit about how you brought yourself to that point in time to judaism and how then the jewish community, it influenced you from that point. >> go ahead. >> well, the first thing that is so important is that i had already gone through a self- revelation, which is i read a book what i was in my 20s about

gay identity. and i had been with women before but i hadn't thought of myself as a lesbian. and i woke -- i had a dream that night influenced by that book. i woke up and it was women in bars in new york. i had a dream about myself, and i woke up a different person. i had already had this transformational experience about eye he dentity and i knew how mutable identity is and the same thing happened when i found out i was a jew. overnight, i found myself like a hugely different person. everything was different about me. and i realized before i hadp been somewhat condescending towards jews who are my friends and lovers i thought i was superior and didn't know that until i was jewish. >> interesting. and you know believe it or not, we have to take a break. so we will come back in just a moment and continue the fascinating conversation with marnie and jim.

good morning. welcome back. we are in the middle of a wonderful corn with marnie and jim about how they discovered their jewishness. jim, you were talking before the break and marnie was sharing how her own adulthood at a certain point when she discovered she was jewish then influenced her sense of jewishness and back and north. -- forth. and i am wondering how it was for you. cawas a hat la gay man. and so, my identity kind of arranged or rearranged itself. this felt similar, and my mother revealed this identity, it's like, oh, okay.

so, i completely changed and was completely the same and took myself to synagogue thinking, oh, well maybe now i will find the services much more meaningful. maybe now i will know the songs and won't be -- feel hike an interloper and none of that changed because i had not grown up as a jew. so i sort of likened it to i use the analysis of being transgender. a transgender person doesn't ani feel like i am he i am detg not a pretend jew mother's family was jewish and i've done all the activities, but my identity lacks the beginning, nurturing, parented jewishness. >> interesting. so you know self-discovery

oftentimes, not always but oftentimes, involves revealing or a breaking things that were before that moment secret and that can have its own domino effect. both of you talked about that little bit of an element in your families. i am wondering what effect it had more broadly on yourfamily -- nam lits -- families of origin in what ways than living as jews has really made transparent and brought it to the floor? >> the first thing at that was -- that was morn for me as a counselor i work with people's narratives all the time. some narratives have just not helping certain people. what this did when i found -- when i found myself to be such a camilleian and how it changed me, it empowered me in my work to take a view of narratives and saying i can help people

change. look how i changed from the the revelations. i can also help people change their narratives so it was instructive in my work. it was very influential. >> yes. >> and with poi family members who think they are wasps now that everybody is dead, i mown all the predecessors i am the last jew so it's up to me to pass on the heritage and i've been doing my part. >> interesting. and jim? >> well, it was interesting, i was -- my mother was doling out cousins and i would call them and i got a family genealogy that indicateed that my -- indicated that my grandfather's parents were jacob and jelda bernstein and i called my brother isn't that interesting our great grandfather was jacob and you named your son jacob and he was not interested at all e said jacob was named for someone in my wife's family. and i said yes, and it's a very common name but don't you think

that's an interesting lynnage and he was not -- lynnage -- lynn and and i -- lynn age -- lineage and he was not engaging. a nephew at the time said jim how is it that you are jewish but dad's to the jewish and grandma is not jewish. and i am looking over at my brother thinking, how do i answer that? >> interesting. >> and that he is sort of how things remained that. >> in the family. we are going to take another quick break and come back here on mosaic. please join us in a moment.

good morning and welcome back to mosaic i am rabbi eric. and we are in wonderful conversation about discovering they are jewish with marnie and jim. welcome back jim and marnie. there's so much to talk about and so i am wondering how the two of you met and if you can talk a little bit about is there a community of like folks out there in our jewish community? >> well, one of the ways we had

met but we reconnected when i remembered a wonderful novel by rifle richard hall called family ficksons and it was about a family which had hidden its joy shall identity and i opened it up and it was dedicated marnie. and i sent her an e-mail and i said, guess what, i think impart of the tribe. and show we -- be so we sat down over lunch and started comparing -- and so we sat down over lunch and started comparing note and it was this great connection and it really gave me solas and sense of community -- solace and sense of community and i remember her telling mow about a bar mitzvah she said and i said about a midst far and she said no bar mitzvah so talk about that. >> anyway richard was my brother and wrote a book about it's a true book about a

fiction it's a you to novel about fiction which is my family fick -- it's a true novel about a fick son which is my family dick -- fiction which is my family fickson. >> and have you discovered folks like yourself who later in adulthood discovered they are jewish? >> many. turns out it's very common narrative. there's been lots of box and memoirs madeleine albright and we have been on panels called new jews of many people who have discovered as adults that they had joyish heritage. >> so, i am wondering as part of your -- the ark of your narrative so far, how did you begin to integrate and make choices about jewishness and jewish life to the life you already have? how do you understand jewish who will a days in how do you understand jewish approaches to biblical narrative and

jewishethical values about being in the world. that kind of thing. can you talk about what that is for you? >> for me it's very much been inan evolving process where i pulled on one legging at a time of jewishness and put something over my head and it was -- it's been years to the point where now i am so proud and happy to be be a jew. and very open and but it's been very gradual and taken a lot of processing, investigation and historical searching on my part. >> i am shower this is true for both of you, but do you move through places where you start to relinquish christianity or relinquish things you did that were not it canly jewish. is that part of the process? >> i don't think i have any christianity to relinquish. one of my rabbi friends asked me what religion were you

growingp and i said, tongue and choke we were devoutly iewn tearion and he rolled his eyes. so, but i had a wonderful opportunity i was work at the jewish community library so i had resources to the staff, to the selections, to people so any questions i had, and my job was to read books for the book club in a box program. so, all day, every day, i was sitting reading about the jewish experience in every form and variation and every geographical place. so, it was crjum everything i had not been taught as young person i was nd perspective because -- having a particular expecterrive because i didn't have it to begin -- perspective because i didn't

have it but i was growing it. >> fascinating we have one minute left in our conversation. i am wondering for anybody who might be listening or know somebody in their world in your particular state of discovery, what is one thing you might suggest to somebody who finds themselves discovering that in fact they are jewish and they had a previously -- hadn't previously known what would you suggest? >> celebrate that heritage. what a marvelous heritage. how lucky we are. >> wonderful. jim what about you. >> i would echo that and to say that we are not alone. there are lots of us all over the world who, for one reason or another, have had to hithemb it, and celebrate it and find like-minded people. >> jim, marnie thanks encourage to self-discovery. have wonderful day.

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live from the cbs bay area studios, this is kpix5 news. >> now on kpix5 news this morning, heavy rain and monster waves. high surf advisory is now in effect along the bay area coast. >> this is really a dream that i never expected was going to come true. >> an oakland nurse deported to mexico is back home with her family this morning. it's 6 a.m. on this sunday december 16th. good morning thanks for joining us i am devin fehely. >> high surf advisory in effect. the concern is waves and currents that could sweep swimmers out to sea. >> these waves are going to be so severe our rescue workers may not be able to enter the water to affect a rescue