>> brennan: we turn to one of our favorite holiday traditions here at "face the nation." this year we're joined by writers who recent give insint n unpredictable times and where we might be headed next. historian mike it beschloss is the author of "presidents of w war" and doris kearns goodwin latest book is "leadership: in turbulent times." peter maker is the chief white house correspondent for the "new york times" he covers the current president as well as three previous he's contributor to "impeachment: an american history" and jill lepore writes for "the new yorker" is the author of "these truths: a history of the united states." well, there are a lot of lessons to be learned from history but michael, one of the things you constantly hear about where we are right now is we're looking at president who believes

history begins with him. >> the founders of this country, they really have the idea that what would distinguish froes england and monarchy of europe would be we'd all know history, learn really quickly where generations of americans earlier had gone wrong and where they had done well. and presidents may be above all, harry truman said he couldn't understand how anyone could be president of the united states who did not know history. truman always said, not every reader will be a leader but every leader has to be a reader. >> brennan: you write as well though that in some ways founders fathers probably put a bit too much power in the presidency. >> they expected that the first president would be george washington, every later president would be like him. as we've seen not everyone turned out to be that way. but the thing the founders worried about most of all was that presidents would try to grab too much power. and through history that has sure turned out to be the case.

one of the ways they have done that which i've written about is in war times, because war if you're looking for a president who gets more power in some cases abuses power, war is the quickest way to do it. i think the founders would have been very worried about the fact that a president nowadays can get america involved in war almost single-handedly. >> brennan: and get us out as well. >> absolutely. i think if they came back today they would feel that presidents nowadays have much too much power and they would feel that the job of every citizen to try to resist that. >> brennan: doris, because we're in such turbulent times the idea of leadership, leadership qualities and tone and tenor of what is communicated to the american public is something you've been looking at. how did you decide on the four presidents that you focused in on? >> they were the ones i knew the best, i've lived with them for a long period of time i figured if i was going to look at them in a different way through leadership that i wanted to know them y. but once i did it,hgrter advent

easy, i know these g roosevelti nished the book i was turning my old boyfriend away when i saw the new guy, i'll get them together and spend time with them. what became important was to see there are family resemblance of leadership strengths that they exhibited. all the right person for the time, that's the interesting thing about what you're saying, maybe the founders would feel that presidency was too powerful in war time but if we hadn't had a powerful president like abe bra lamb lincoln, we hadn't had ted bee roosevelt as steward of the american people of big companies, if we hadn't had fdr there at the time of the new deal and great depression, they all took power. lyndon johnson took power to get the civil rights bill through. in each one of those cases what i think saved us as a country is never just the leader, it's the movement that is underneath the leader. when they said to abraham lincoln, you're a liberator,

don't say that with the anti anti-slavery people that did it all. the progressive movement that, without that house movement they couldn't have gotten through what they did. of course without the civil rights movement lbj couldn't have gotten the civil rights bill. it's up to the people right now. >> brennan: jill, you write about this sense of ruthlessne ruthlessness, of disorientation, of trying to define who we are right now as an american people. why did you dig into that this. >> a sense of political di disequilibrium since 9/11 that is coin sighted with the technological disruption with that skew, forms of political communication that we have grown to rely on. we need to pay a lot o can speak politically by >> brenn u he wed en bit quietern but we quite loud at the time, particularly

women. >> sometimes people say, you are inserting this new attention to women and people of color, but of course american history is driven by everybody. and when you think about political history if you confine your attention to the disenfranchised you'll have narrow, all white male history, which is a distortion. it's important to understand that the past is made up of many actors who have powers that are different from the franchisee rectory. the crusade the signature move of women engaged in reform, more crew aids that the anti-lynching movement is at the end of the 19th century. civil rights movement is a moral crusade, there's a lot that goes on politically in the united states outside of the active sufferage. >> brennan: peter, you spend a good portion of your time in this book impeachment, you're not advocating or taking a position, you're explaining like in the past. this loo

and you focused in on the clinton presidency. what is it that theatconted houd potential threats. >> it does seem to be a topic of conversation, before we move into a new conflict of the type we've had before we ought to understand how we got here. we understand how the framers thought of impeachmen impeachmey put that phrase in the constitution and the examples that folks, andrew johnson, richard nixon and bill clinton those are were the three times that came to the head. clinton, which is 20 years ago this month, hard to imagine it's been 20 years ago, it has been. one of the things that you t episo i that you don't undertake this lightly. meant to be ultimate resolutof . you can't live on a partisan basis. only that the president's party,

significant parts of the president's party agree that there is something important to be resolved here will this actually get to a conclusion that the advocates need. as democrats come in in january, they're faced with this connun dumb. of the base to like, they think he's committed some crimes but they know given what we know at this moment there aren't the votes there to convict in the senate where you need 20 senator rep play cans to go along. >> brennan: how painful has that process been historically to actually go through i am preachment. what does it do to us as a country? >> exactly. tends to rip us apart. we're already a polarized country we don't need anybody help to make us more collar rised but impeachment would make that division that we're undergoing and exacerbate bring it to a head. democratic leaders are ver aware of this. they saw this in 1998 that in general did not seem to work out well for them politically.

they're wary of backlash if they pursue something or perceive as overreaching yet their base, liberal base is very upset and agitated. >> brennan: michael, we've seen this extraordinary letter of resignation from defense secretary mattis. saying essentially, in detail, it's an issue of values for hime current administration. fundamentally he believes that we are breaking away from our alliance, is that is painful to us, damaging to us as a nation. >> yes. that was something we have never seen before in american history which is a secretary of defense resigning in protest and anger with basically a bill of indictment against the president saying, you do not believe president trump and things that you should, such as alliances and we are dealing with russia and china not regarding them with sufficient degree of viwi .

yoand i do not believesameol something that you ver rarel see. and i think the result is, that members of congress are now going to have to make a decision which is, if president trump let's -- appoint a new secreta y of defense who is more compliant sort of w that he appointed matt whitaker to the justice department as acting attorney general, will you see people like mitch mcconnell stand up and say, i've been with you on awful lot of other thin things, mr. president, but this is too important, we will not confirm someone like that. >> brennan: we'll take a quick break and come back. we'll be back in a moment from our historians' panel. ♪ that skills like teamwork, attention to detail,

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>> brennan: what it means to be an american, it seems like we're sort of argue can about it amongst ourselves these days. >> i think we have to remember this country was founded on a set of ideals. it's not just a place. you think about the declaration of independence and the founding fathers who wanted us to be something different, a beacon of hope to other nations at large, i think we just have to instill that. i know it w sung, aute government and whe ideals were. i think as a nation right now

that is what is going to bind us together still. >> brennan: what disrupted that, what has changed that? >> i don't fully understand the partisanship to be honest, it's been going on for a period of time, people from one part of the country not feeling good about the people in the rural areas, feeling bad about the cities. what happened at the turn of the 20th century when there was disruptive economy, the industrial revolution, a gap between rich and poor, immigrants coming in, blaming them for the workers not feeling that they were enjoying the prosperity of the nation which they weren't. but i think to some extent what disrupted -- i don't understand when i read the other day an article that more people now would be worried about their kid marrying outside their party than they would about religion or race, how can that be? >> a lot has changed. >> it just -- something's happened where the identity with th the way the policalsystructul boundaries, people living and only talking to people that they're used to, now segregated themselves in cities or rural

areas. and that television is cablelized, the social media is fragmented and things that used to draw us together when fdr gave a fireside chat everybody in the country, eight off of ten are listening on the radios, collective experience, you could walk down the street on hot chicago night and look in the window see everybody looking at their radio. you could hear his voice coming out on the street, you could keep walking not miss a word of what he was saying. president trump has tweets which can reach that many people. but individual experience, it's not collective the way it used to be. that's what we're missing, i think. >> brennan: and often presidents at the time they would speak and e complicated policy would often be around when we're facing conflict or major national security crisis we learned about withdrawal from syria possibly afghanistan from twitter. >> that's a problem. americans when they're trying to think about the world or u unpopular decision a president

makes, a president should spend some time explaining it. if lincoln, for instance, whenud think doris will concur on this one, cancelled the emancipation proclamation because people think extending the war, you got us involved in the civil war to unite north and south, not to liberate african americans. and what lincoln could rely on is the fact that he could explain unpopular decisions, he went to the voters he said, you may not like this emancipation proclamation but look at it as necessary war. when you unveiled, 100,000 african americans are now working hard in our union war effort, if i cancelled it they might not do that, we might lose the war. one of the most important things you need from a president is the ability to not only make tough decisions but also to be able to explain it to people so that they feel included.

a tweet will never do that. >> brennan: we seem to be for d we' not necessarily in isg agreement on what the american values are right now. >> i think some of that were frozen in these two camps really is technology driven, dide imp blasey ford-catch saw is where people distorted themselves out into the camp is and who you believe which i was on likely response to any possible impea impeachment proceedings. that political division between conservatives and liberals who are asked to believe in fundamentally different values and not asked to think about one another's values are, still by some very cynical political consultants who wanted to get voters to the poll using emotionally charged, life or death issues that were

constitutionally weak, sort of abortion schism of the '70s and '80s, even if you were conservative abortion is murder and guns are freedom if you're a liberal. and it's all life, death or freedom and, very calculatedly for decades. just when they were done with their work social media more or lessee merged and now all that have is done by automation. >> we're in a political machine of a new generation of machines. where we are sorted, polarization is done automatically, very difficult to get out of that machine. >> brennan: connect that idea to impeachment still referencing there. you're talking about the strategy of how this might play out. in a future congress. what did we see happen with clinton there, it's often referenced that the trump camp is handling the clinton situation. >> going after the investigator to discredit anybody that comes

after him, that mueller is angry democrats are all in a witch hunt against accuserscamef i tlittle bit more democrats knew a long as partisan wouldn't eed. and could get two irheenate they were willing to take the vote in the house which is essentially the indictment as long as they can win the trial in the senate. and so going to head down the same road, the crimes here alleged are much different, different category, volume may be different, but the issue of the division, issue of how we interpret those crimes still pretty much the same. >> brennan: we'll have to leave it there. a good conversation with all of you, we covered a lot of

territory. but i want to thank all of you, michael, doris kearns goodwin, peter baker and jill lepore.

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>> brennan: gayle submit a ceo from the one campaign. to help end poverty and disease. the one campaign has famous founder, of course, bon, who is lead singer of u2 but before she worked with the rock star, gayle was the head of usaid served the top advisor to both presidents obama and clinton. welcome to "face the nation." >> thank you so much for having me. >> brennan: i think this is a great opportunity to talk about some of the underreported stories and need out there. when you are trying to fight disease and poverty, wyou nd tht now? >> the most need is actually occurring in africa, we have seen tremendous progress, when you look at countries the republic of congo, increase in extreme poverty. also seeing it, africa is our main focus. >> brennan: africa is your main focus you mention disease we're seeing new ebola outbreak

in the congo, you were very involved when the served in the obama administration trying to contain it, what is happening now? >> not near enough attention to this. it's still an outbreak but killed over 300 people. it's in the democratic republic of the congo not a terriblnt wed there is risk that it will sped, i'm quite concerned that attention on the world agenda, because these viruses don't pay attention to borders they move very quickly. they kill whole lot more people. >> brennan: you've also been saying there needs to be more attention to the aids crisis, many people we've moved past the crisis point. you're saying, no. >> actually, what is really interesting is that i think a lot of people feel like we've succeeded, we've won that fight. and in part, we've made huge progress. the world joined together and pushed back against this epidemic with great success.

now what we're finding is also complacency, we've done that, we don't need to worry about it. there are still a thousand girls and young women being infected every day. >> brennan: a thousand? >> a thousand. and as long as we're moving tig against aids.rus, but if it starts moving faster than we are, we're in real trouble. the world is not paying attention, there have been proposed cuts to the aids budget here in the united states and we can't afford to get behind. the virus will win and as i say, thousands. 7,000 girls a week. >> brennan: one of the things that your organization does is try to lobby as we've said, both sides of the aisle, you've had some success i think this is interesting here because we hear from the trump administration consistently they want to cut back on foreign aid. and many people, that is appealing to them 6 spend dollars here at home. don't send them abroad. congress has stopped some of those cuts.

how did you get that to happen? >> if you look back over the last 15 years, a really interesting thing has happened. democrats and republicans have joined together to support taobust, supporting internationl security, just recently a bill called the build act that provides more investment capital that passed in seven months. at a time i think we all know is pretty partisan. as it turns out, the beauty of this issue is whether your issue is national security, or economic interest or expression of values there's a way in. and we just have a history of democrats and republicans joining together over the last two years, for example, to push back against the cuts in the aids budget. >> brennan: one of the things we heard from the trump administration is first shaping of an africa policy, you don't

hear them talk about the continent very often. ambassador bolton mentioned it in fight for influence between china and russia, and the first lady traveled. what does that mean for some of the causes that you want people to pay attention to? >> well, i think it remains to be seen, i think t when someone of prominence of high visibility pace attention to african issues it's a good thi thing, something we can work with. the challenge would be, whether or not there will be resources, our aids budget isn't as big as some people think. some people it's a 10% of the budget. >> brennan: less than 1%. >> exactly. those resources matter. it's not enough to say we care about this. we're for development. we want to see africa prosper, we need to invest. and at present we're not looking at the increasing resources we'd like to see but we're going to push for that. >> brennan: how are you going to do that in the new congress? >> part of it is engaging new

members. along with a lot of long time friends, one campaign has been around for 15 years, have a lot of friends on the hill. we work closely with new membe members. there are a lot of champions of this from among retired military officers, for example. who make the case as secretary mattis did, that if you're not going to provide funding for the civilian budget i'm going to need more bullets, that's very powerful argument. there are people facing this, our task will be to work with people who agree on just one thing, that this budget is important, it matters to america, it matters to other people. if we can all agree on that >> brennan: somesu -- >> stranes wme >> brennan: good to highlightyu >> brennan: good to highlightyu beightacah!? i switched to geico and got more! more savings on car insurance!?

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>> brennan: that's it for us today. thank you for watching. we want to wish you very happy new year and until next week and next year, for "face the natio nation," i'm margaret brennan.

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