>> brennan: it's sunday, march 10th. i'm margaret brennan, and this is "face the nation." they're off and running in campaign 2020. >> this campaign with your help is about transforming this country and creating an economy and a government that works for all, not just the 1%. >> brennan: so what's different about this field from years past? >> i always like to jokingly say, "may the best woman win." >> brennan: and why have some ideological differences become dirty words for democrats. >> the question of capitalist

versus socialist, we'll put you down as a capitalist? >> put me down as a capitalist. >> brennan: so if you get labeled as a socialist? >> it's just wrong >> brennan: would you call yourself a proud capitalist? >> >> the label, i'm not sure if any of those fit. >> brennan: our ed o'keefe asks massachusetts senator elizabeth warren about her proposal the break up big technology companies. and we'll hear from former colorado governor john hickenlooper. and as washington awaits developments into the investigation of the trump administration and the 2016 campaign, the president's former personal attorney, michael cohen, defends himself against accusations that he has lied to congress for a second time. >> i have never asked for nor would i accept a pardon from president trump. >> michael cohen lied about the pardon. that's a stone-cold lie. >> brennan: the president later tweeted that cohen directly asked me for a pardon.

i said. no we'll talk to former acting f.b.i. director, andrew mccabe, and a key presidential defender on the senate judiciary committee, louisiana's john kennedy. plus we'll have analysis on all the news of the week coming up on "face the nation." good morning and welcome to "face the nation." we begin this morning with the already packed field of potential candidates for 2020, and there are signs that former vice president joe biden is planning to enter the race next month. a new poll out this morning shows him leading in iowa with vermont senator bernie sanders close behind. handful of those candidates appeared over the weekend at the south by southwest festival in austin. cbs news political correspondent ed o'keefe caught up with one of the big names in the race, massachusetts senator elizabeth warren, and asked about her new

proposal to break up tech companies like amazon, apple, google, and facebook. >> the giant tech companies right now are eating up little tiny businesses, start-ups, and competing unfairly. look at it this way: someone like amazon runs a platform, you know, the place where you buy your coffee maker and get it delivered in 48 hours. and that's great. but in addition to that, they're sucking up all that information about every purchase, every sale, and every one of the other little businesses that are offering their products on amazon, and when amazon sees one that's profitable, they say, hmm, i think we'll go into business against them now that they've got all this extra information. and they put their own business out there to compete on selling coffee makers, put themselves on page one, put the competitor back on page six, and the competitor's business is just gone. so what i'm saying is we've got to break these guys apart.

you want to run a platform, that's fine. you don't get to run a whole bunch of businesses, as well. you want to run a business, that's fine. you don't get to run the platform. think of it this way. it's like in baseball. you can be the umpire or you can own one of the team, but you don't get to be the umpire and own the teams. >> let me get this clear, if you had your way, facebook would have to sell off instagram. >> uh-huh. >> amazon would have to sell off whole foods. >> all those little competing businesses. >> who is the federal government to tell these companies they have to do that? >> there's anti-trust law. it's been around for more than 100 years. the federal government has done this many times, for example, broke up standard oil, broke up the great monopolies of the late 19th century and early 20th century. and the reason for that is so that we can keep a competitive economy. >> this idea has gotten a lot of criticism. >> from? >> howard schultz, a guy who is

thinking as rubbing about an independent. >> a billionaire, right? >> yes. he suggested that your proposal is "inconsistent with our free enterprise system" and said "it's emblematic of democrats imposing -- his word -- fantasy ideas that will never be implemented and instead maybe you could find ways to discuss with these companies to make it more competitive >> we could ask these multibillion dollar companies nicely if they would not eat up the competition and just behave better in the marketplace? really? we've had laws around against anti-trust activity and predatory pricing for over 100 years because we understand that the way markets work are when there's real competition in that market. >> you know that this kind of proposal feeds into the arguments that republicans have been making to label democrats as anti-capitalist, adopting

these socialist ideas. >> the reality is it is not capitalism to have one giant that comes in and dominates a market. what i have supported all the way through are the kinds of things that help level the playing field. so i think a level politician field says that the big guys have to pay kind of like everybody else does, and they have to pay to help create some opportunities. >> but you know you're getting ladies and gentlemenned and getting coupled in with a few of your other democratic contenders as someone who supports socialist ideas. do we describe you as a capitalist? >> yeah. i believe in markets, markets that work, markets that have a cop on the beat and have real rules and everybody follows them. i believe in a level playing field >> so if you get ladies and gentlemenned as a socialist? >> well, it's just wrong. >> silicon valley has been a reliable source of democratic financial support, especially in

recent cycles. give then proposal, are you going to decline financial support from tech executives or tech employees if they decide to give to your campaign? >> nobody has been beating down the door, but let me be clear. i'm not in washington to work for billionaires. i'm in washington to help level the politician field so everybody gets chance to get out there and compete. right now with giants like amazon and google and facebook, do you know how venture capitals talk about the space around them? they call it "the kill zone" because they don't want to fund businesses in that space, because they know amazon will eat them up, facebook will eat them up, google will eat them up. we need a chance for every one of the young people in that room to thrive to, get their idea out there, and if it turns out to be the next google, good for them. >> brennan:

>> you said nobody is beating down the door. how is fund-raising going for you? >> it's great. there's a lot of small-dollar fund-raisers. i have been calling people who donated $25, $5, $50, $10, and i had some great conversations with them. i get chance to ask them why you got -- what pulled you into this. and people talk about the things that matter most to them. >> the house this past week had to vote on a resolution condemning hate of all sorts because of what one congresswoman had said, ilhan omar of minnesota. >> let's talk about the political influence in this country that says it is okay for people to push for allegiance to a foreign country. >> many considered that anti-semitic. others said it's being misinterpreted. what's you view on what she said? >> look, my view is that we condemn anti-semitism and islamophobia wherever it appears.

we are a democracy. and in a democracy, we have to talk about our differences. we need to do so with respect, but ultimately we need to hammer out the best policies for this country, and that means a lot of frank and full discussion. >> was she unfairly targeted? >> look, right now what we've got is a condemnation of anti-semitism and islamophobia and other forms of hatred. hatred is not how we build a democratic dialogue. >> brennan: ed's full interview with senator warren is available on our website, facethenation.com. now, the latest candidate to enter the race to beat president trump is former colorado governor john hickenlooper. he announced his candidacy thursday. >> i'm not the first person in the race or the most well-known person in the race, but let me

tell you, at four syllables and 12 letters, "hickenlooper" is now the biggest name in the race. [cheering and applause] >> brennan: now the biggest name in the race joins us live from austin. governor, welcome to "face the nation." >> thanks for having me on. >> brennan: is it a good idea to do what senator warren is advocating with breaking up big tech companies? >> well, i think you've got to look at the environment and how the system is working. and for, you know, for several decades now increasingly people in the middle class and poor people in this country have not had the security and opportunity that our economic system used to create for them. so what is the reason why we're seeing such a large decline in the number of start-up, people starting businesses, and maybe some of that is due to these large companies that, you know, usually when someone is going to start a business, they're already a successful employee somewhere, maybe they're looking

at that landscape and saying, you know, these companies are too big, i can't get in, i think that's one of the arguments that she's trying to make. we have to make sure that we have a competitive system whereby little guys feel they have an honest, decent chance to succeed. >> brennan: so you do think tech companies have too much influence over the economy? >> no, what i'm saying is that they are in many circumstances becoming so large, they make it harder for small companies to compete. again to, make a blanket statement about all tech companies, they're too big, i think that would be a little bit going too far. i do think it's legitimate to say how do we make sure that we have more competition in such a way that we encourage, you know, people to start their own businesses. that's where job creation happens is when you get small businesses. you know, people like me, i got laid off, i ended up starting first one restaurant company, then another restaurant company, then i took old warehouses and turned them into loft projects, but we created thousands of jobs

in that process and we're able to stimulate a whole part of denver and other, you know, cities and towns across the midwest. that's what drives this country and always has. and we're seeing a decline in the number of people willing to start up businesses. >> brennan: i want to offer you the chance to clear something up here, because you did an interview earlier in the week where you were asked three times if you would call yourself a proud capitalist. you wouldn't directly answer the question. it led howard schultz, who is possibly a candidate, to say, "if even a successful businessman and entrepreneur like governor hickenlooper can't openly support capitalism, the democratic primary, it's clear that this is senator sanders' party now." why are you uncomfortable calling yourself a proud capitalist? >> the point i was making is that we define people we these labels that often have all kinds of associations and baggage with them in that sense. do i believe in small business? of course i believe in small business. i probably started probably more

than 20 different small businesses. i have, you know, in one year i'd have over one million customers. i understand that, but what's happening, and i think it's a silly question. we should be looking at some of the reasons behind why we have less and less start-ups. we should look at some of the reasons why more and more people aren't wanting to start a business. >> brennan: sure, but you understand it's main republican talking point to label democrats right now as anti-business socialists. >> [laughter] right. that's ridiculous. >> brennan: so you would reject that label? >> yes, absolutely. i think that's not accurate. and i think that as your interview with elizabeth warren showed, there are all kinds of different people making up the democratic party. do i believe in free markets? do i believe that you put capital to work to create jobs and improve your community? back when i was a kid,

businesses understood the part of their job wasn't just to make as much profit as they could, but it was to create the community? once you get back into these label, am i a capitalist, am i a socialist, how much of a capitalist am i versus how much of a socialist, it becomes kind of silly, doesn't it? >> brennan: well, the other candidates were comfortable answering the question, so i wanted to offer you a chance to answer it. i understand you're not comfortable correctly answering it, but i want the move on. >> i'm comfortable. i'm happy. >> brennan: go ahead. >> i'm happy to say i'm a capitalist, but i think at a certain point the labels do nothing but divide us. what i'm trying build this campaign around is to say that as a country, we've got to stop finding every excuse to divide ourselves. >> brennan: point taken. >> and begin working together, because we have some big issues to make >> brennan: pilot taken. in terms of your platform, i understand you support universal health care, not necessarily medicaid for -- medicare for all. you have supported some free trade deals in the past like nafta.

you touted your executive experience in a field full of legislators here. you don't like labels, but you sound like more of a centrist. how do you keep the democratic party from splintering further? >> well, by trying to avoid all the labeling that goes on. i'm running for president because i believe i can beat donald trump, but i also believe i can bring us together on the other side and begin getting stuff done. and that's one thing i think that i bring to the table is i'm a deer. i'm not someone who is -- i'm a dreamer, too, and i believe in big vision. we've done some amazing things in colorado. we've almost gotten universal health care coverage in colorado now. we've addressed some of the biggest root causes of climate change. we've taken our economy from 40th in job creation to being the number-one economy in the country in the last few years. those are things i think should be models for what the next president needs to be able to demonstrate, that they can do things. >> brennan: right. well, governor, thank you very

much for joining us. we'll be tracking the race and we will be back in one minute with a lot more "face the nation." former acting f.b.i. director andrew mccabe standing by. aveeno® with prebiotic oat. it hydrates and softens skin. so it looks like this... and you feel like this. aveeno® daily moisturizer get skin happy™ you'll make my morning, buty the price ruin my day.ou?

complicated relationship with milk? pour on the lactaid, 100% real milk, just without that annoying lactose. mmm, that's good. >> brennan: we're back with former active shooter f.b.i. director andrew mccabe. he's the author of a new book "the threat: how the f.b.i. protects america in the age of terror and trump." good to have you here. >> thanks so much for having me >> brennan: i'll start you off with the news of the week. former trump campaign chairman paul manafort was sentenced this week. he will also face sentencing in a d.c. court in the days to come. he was given 47 months, far less than what is the sentencing guideline of up to 20-plus years. is the length of time he will serve matching the crimes he's being accused of? >> well, i was really surprised by the sentence he was given. i think it's an incredibly lenient sentence and light, not

just of the offenses he was convicted for, but the additional offenses he has plead guilty to in d.c. and the offenses he's acknowledged in the sentencing process in virginia that he's responsible for some like most people, i was shocked by how lenient the sentence was. >> brennan: it sounds like you're predicting the d.c. court may add to those 47 months. >> there is no question he's going to get additional time from d.c. i don't think it's probably the job of the d.c. courts to rectify a mistake or something that was done in another jurisdiction. i'm sure that judge jackson will approach her sentence with just keeping her eye on the facts of that case. but there is no doubt he'll get additional time from that process. >> brennan: in your book, "the threat," you write about some of the president's public comments about paul manafort in particular. and you frame it in one passage as possible witness tampering. you say you fear a judge will be influenced by some of the

president's comments. did you have any sense that that's what happened here with judge ellis? >> i don't, i don't, but the point i try make in the book is that it's to try to highlight how incredibly irresponsible and indeed corrosive statements like that from the chief executive are on the process and on the public's perception of the fairness and the effectiveness of the process. when the president engages in messaging like that, people can't help but step back and ask themselves that question that you just asked -- did that have an impact on the process or on the result in this case? we don't know the answer the that, but it introdouses a -- introduces a level of doubt and insecurity into a system that we all need to depend upon for being fair and free >> brennan: the charges that paul manafort faced were in regard to financial crimes. do you believe he was a russian asset. >> i don't know the answer to that. i think that mr. manafort's extensive involvement with ukrainian and russian actors is

highly suspicious. i think that's something that we'll wait to see what the mueller team opines on with their final conclusions >> brennan: because the president seized on a comment made by judge ellis, who seemed to be pointing out that the russian potential links were not part of the trial we have seen under way here. so you're saying there the president's comments were not actually accurate? >> well, that shouldn't be a surprise. i think that judge ellis was very careful to indicate that he was sentencing mr. manafort for the conduct that was before him, and mr. manafort was not charged in that case with being an agent for the government in russia. so i think judge ellis' efforts to be careful and tailor his words are far from an exoneration of mr. manafort on any other potential charges. >> brennan: i want to ask you, as well, about michael cohen, the president's long-time attorney. we played in the open some of the tapes showing the changing stories here in regard to whether there was discussion or not of a presidential pardon.

now it appears, according to the president, that it was discussed. as an investigator, what do you make of that? >> very hard to sort through a basically he said/he said argument between two people who have very challenged credibility. at the end of the day, the strength of michael cohen's testimony, potential testimony, is derived not from what he's telling us now, but rather from what whatever facts and corroborative evidence the prosecutors are able to glean from that treasure trove of documents and recordings and other things that -- >> brennan: you're saying don't take him at his word, take him by the evidence he presents. >> brennan: that's right. i want to ask you as well, because the president constantly mentions the credibility that you have. >> sure >> brennan: he calls that into question. specifically, on the texts between lisa page and peter strouk, you were asked by this

on cnn by anderson cooper. you said you had no recollection of a meeting that mentioned an insurance policy in case trump got elected. do you know why you were personally mentioned in those texts? >> i don't. lisa page, pete and i and many other members of that investigative team met in my office and conference rooms around f.b.i. headquarters all the time, right? so it was an intensive investigation that required a lot of attention and a lot of involvement. so i can't sit here and tell you years later the circumstances of exactly that instance that they seem to be referring to in that text. i also wasn't a participant in that text, so i can't add too much more to your understanding of it. i know that peter has described in his own congressional testimony what he was referring to, and i take him at his word for that description >> brennan: because the chairman of the senate judiciary committee, lindsey graham, has been on this program specifically referring to those texts and said that it is proof

that you, along with strouk and page showed political bias and a political agenda, which is why he wants to call you before the committee the answer questions. one of the other texts there was a quote that said "we need to open the case we've been waiting on now while andy is acting." while you were acting f.b.i. director. do you know what case this is? why would it matter that you were in that acting role? >> well, again, i can't tell you what lisa and pete were referring to in their private texts. i think i have been very clear publicly about how the investigators felt about the work that we needed to do in may of 2017 after director comey was fired. they made a recommendation to me that we open cases. i acted on that recommendation. i was feeling -- i felt very strongly at that time that i needed to make those decisions quickly because i anticipated i would not been in the acting role for very long, and i didn't know who would be coming in behind me or how they would handle the ongoing investigation that we thought was important to

conclude. >> brennan: thank you very much >> sure. >> brennan: mr. mccabe. we'll be back in a moment for some republican reaction.

ron! soh really? going on at schwab. thank you clients? well jd power did just rank them highest in investor satisfaction with full service brokerage firms...again. and online equity trades are only $4.95... i mean you can't have low cost and be full service. it's impossible. it's like having your cake and eating it too. ask your broker if they offer award-winning full service and low costs. how am i going to explain this? if you don't like their answer, ask again at schwab. schwab, a modern approach to wealth management. ignition sequence starts. 10... 9... guidance is internal. 6... 5... 4... 3... 2... 1... ♪

>> brennan: we go now to louisiana republican senator john kennedy who is in new orleans this morning. senator, i want to give you a chance to respond to andy mccabe. >> let me say first, margaret, i'm still in a bit of a stooper at mayor hickenlooper's shame at having once been a capitalist. i can't -- i've seen it all now. but i'll save that for another day. mr. mccabe is one of the people responsible for politicizing the premier law enforcement agency in the history of the world. the f.b.i. he's not only the one. but it's clear that he and others and n2016, some were for trump, some were for clinton, but they acted on their political beliefs, and they hurt

the f.b.i. badly. for that all of them, not just mr. mccabe, but all of them should hang their head in shame and put their head in bag. >> brennan: senator, this needs more conversation. we're going to take a quick break. i want the talk to you more about this in just a moment. good ideas go to waste. 't y at bp, we see possibilities everywhere. to help the world keep advancing. to severe plaque psoriasis get clearer. and stay clearer. most patients who saw 90% clearer skin at 28 weeks stayed clearer through 48 weeks. tremfya® may lower your ability to fight infections and may increase your risk of infections. before treatment, your doctor should check you for infections and tuberculosis. tell your doctor if you have an infection or have symptoms such as: fever, sweats, chills, muscle aches or cough. before starting tremfya® tell your doctor if you plan to or have recently received a vaccine. tremfya®. stay clearer. janssen can help you explore cost support options. tremfya®. stay clearer.

♪ ♪ dear tech... let's talk. we have a pretty good relationship. you've done a lot of good for the world. but i feel like you have the potential to do so much more. can we build ai without bias? how can we bake security into everything we do? we need tech that helps people understand each other. that understands my business. we've got some work to do... and we need your help. we need your support. let's expect more from technology. let's put smart to work. ♪ ♪

and there's nothing standard about that. with 10 resorts less than an hour from salt lake international airport, mountain time means more time on more resorts on the greatest snow on earth. it means more time with the kids and more time away from the kids.

ski more, shred more, chill more, cheers more because mountain time is a state of mind that can only be found in one place. utah. >> if you're a little tired from putting the clock forward, this crowd will get you do step. we have a top 20 showdown between houston and cincinnati. ♪