captioning sponsored by cbs >> brennan: it's sunday, xxx the >> brennan: it is sunday, september 29, i am margaret brennan in the a inflation's capital and this is "face the nation". .. i just want to say the whistleblower case explodes in washington after president trump releases details about his call to the ukrainian president in which he asks for a favor. ukrainian help with investigating former vice president joe biden and his son hunter for possible corruption. the call happened soon after the president ordered a hold on an aid package to the ukraine. >> it is not role of the president to shake down foreign s political purposes, withholding taxpayer money to do so. >> that was enough for house speaker nancy pelosi, after months of resisting pleas from democrats to open an impeachment

xt ell she changed course. whistleblower complaint filed by a cia analyst assigned to the white house was handed over to congress. it revealed blockbuster allegations about the president's efforts to urge the ukrainians to medal in the upcoming election and cited attorney general william barr and the president's attorney rudy giuliani as the points of contact. also stunning, details of a possible administration 0 coverup as the whistleblower revealed white house officials locked down the call record in a classified server due to concerns over its content. but do these developments rise to the level of impeachable offenses? most republicans say no. president trump insists he has done nothing wrong but was caught on camera talking about the white house leak that led to the whistleblower complaint. >> who is the person that gave the whistleblower the atn i iot kntte used to do in s

we used to handle ate little differently than we do now. the president's personal attorney rudy giuliani will be with us as well as one of the president's biggest supporters, senator lindsey graham. two members of the house intelligence committee, republican will hurd and democrat terry sewell will join us, plus democratic senator chris murphy will be here along with our political panel, just ahead only "face the nation". >> good morning, and welcome to "face the nation" from capitol hill. it has been a mind-boggling week of developments in the whistle blower case near washington. each new revelation brings more questions. we will be talking today with key lawmakers from both sides of the aisle as well as then thhistleblower call a central figure in the case, president trump's personal attorney rudy giuliani. >> there is a sharp political divide among americans on

whether or not there should be an impeachment inquiry. a cbs news national poll just out says more than half, 55 percent of americans say there should be an impeachment inquiry into the president. that includes 87 percent of democrats and the 23 percent of republicans. independents are split. 42 percent of americans say he deserves to be impeached over the ukraine controversy, 36 percent say the president does not. and the rest say, it is too soon. those numbers also split along party lines for the most part. there is more from our poll on our website at facethenation.com. >> on tonight's 60 minutes, scott pelley sat down with 0 congressional leaders, including house speaker nancy pelosi he asked her what specifically had prompted her to open an impeachment inquiry into the president's actions regarding the ukraine. here is a preview. >> your republican colleagues say, well, the call is the call,

but there is nothing here that rises to the level of high crimes and misdemeanors. >> well, they are wrong. that remains to be seen because it is not just what happens in the call. it is part of the sequencing of events as well. you withdraw a couple hundred million dollars worth of assistance to a country and then a couple of days later say, by the way, can you help me with my campaign, in other words, there is a sequencing there. >> brennan: you can see more of scott's interview on 60 minutes, tonight. we turn now to the chairman force senate judiciary committee lindsey graham, senator, good morning. >> good morning. >> brennan: big week here but i want to begin where nancy pelosi just left off. she lays out what she says is most problematic, the sequencing. >> right. he bs up dkedytht dnc serveup h re lays at out.

and also the aid panel is mentioned. >> right. >> brennan: you have no problem with any of that? >> i have zero problems with this phone call. >> brennan: even with that sequencing. >> i just told you i have zero problems with this phone call. there is no quid pro quo here but i have a problem against nancy pelosi, if you believe that donald trump did something to hurt this country, you owe it to vote not talk about impeaching the president, the only way to open up an impeachment quir i have vote, we need a john hancock moment from democrat, quit hiding behind nance pass this, if you think the president did something wrong in this phone call, then vote to open up an article of impeachment inquiry and a lot of house democrats won't because they are afraid. >> brennan: well, putting that political calculus aside i want to ask about the content though of this conversation. >> can i tell you about this conversation? >> brennan: do you think it was ethical for the president to bring up joe biden? >> yes, absolutely.thin somebodk at whether or not joe biden had the prosecutor fired in an he

improper way, i love joe biden, i don't want to look at it, he i want an inspector general, somebody like mueller, did biden know his son was receiving $50,000 a month from a gas company being investigated by the prosecutor? >> brennan: isn't it just payment for being on a board? >> the guy is on the board being investigated for corruption and the guy doing the investigation is asked to be fired by biden. i don't know what happened. it smells to high heaven. i never said the mueller witch-hunt, the mueller the investigation was a witch-hunt, i introduced legislation to protect mueller. this seems to me like a political setup. it is all hearsay. you can't get a parking ticket conviction based on hearsay, but the whistleblower didn't hear the phone call. >> brennan: right. >> who told. >> brennan: which he said. >> told him about the phone call and everything else. >> brennan: he said -- >> every american deserves to confront their accuser so this is a sham, as far as i am concerned. i want to know who told thele bs not -- hearsay rule was

filed. the complaint sounds like a legal document. who helped this guy write it or this girl write it. we are not going to try the president of the united states based on hearsay. every american has the right to confront their accuser. >> brennan: you wanted the president to release this partial call record. >> i did. >> brennan: but you a are saying this is hearsay, the complaint on a number of fronts is matched by the call record. >> the transcript and the complaint are not matched. >> brennan: the records to the dnc -- >> let me talk, please, please. >> brennan: will you do me a favor. >> i am laying the facts out 0 here. >> no you are making arguments. >> brennan: -- reference to joe biden. >> here is the point, joe biden went da. >> brennan: -- went to the attorney general was brought up. >> you have an opinion i have an opinion you got me on the show to tell you what i think. i think mueller dade good job for the country and there was nothing there. i think this whole thing is a sham. i can't believe we are talking about impeaching the real estate based on an accusation based on hearsay. who is this whistleblower?

what bias do they have? why did they pick this whistleblower to tell a hearsay story? the transcript does not match the complaint. what is going on here? why did they thank rules about a whistleblower, you can use hearsay when you -- just weeks before the complaint, so i think this thing stinks and let me tell you about republicans, you want to know about republicans? republicans believe that you are guilty just by the accusation, if you are brett kavanaugh it doesn't matter, they don't tell you when or where it happened,ist it gist happened 30 years ago if you donald trump you don't get to confront your accuser loo like every other american, americans belief this president is persecuted they don't love donald trump and the way he does business, they like what he does but they believe she being persecuted they believe everybody is out to get him and i believe as to this complaint, it smells. >> brennan: to the acting director of national intelligence who was put in that job by the trump administration said he believed that the whistleblower was acting in good faith. no, he did not, he said he couldn't question his motives but he doesn't know if it is

true or not, so adam schiff read the transcript in a way that everybody would believe that trump is guilty, the dni did not say he could confirm this. >> brennan: no. >> he didn't have any reason to believe the whistleblower is doing anything wrong. what i want to know, who told the whistleblower about the transcript? who told the whistleblower about a phone call between the president of the united states and the foreign leader? this is this is the third time a phone call has been compromised i have read the transcript, i am inn wit with it but not fine wih this president being impeached based on hearsay. every american should be able to confront their accuser, including donald trump. >> brennan: the whistleblower here says that multiple white >> brennan: just, to move ons to another point, but -- >> wait a minute let's stop right there, the whistleblower says i have no direct knowledge of, white house officials told me this. >> brennan: yes. they tell me about a phone call there is a disconnect who are these people and what are they

up to? this is -- knurl was about witch-hunt but this is salem witch trials have more due process than this. how do you know she is a witch, somebody told me she is a witch, how do you know she is a witch, i read articleshi be wp. >> brennan: do yo do you think e president's personal attorney rudy giuliani is advising him on this? should he publicly be calling for the ukrainian president to investigate joe biden. >> why don't you ask him. >> brennan: if he is doing a good job? do you think he is being advising the president -- >> here is what i think, i think nobody is asking about joe biden calling for the guy to be prosecuted or fired who is looking into a board that has, his son sets on. and did joe biden know that his son was receiving $50,000 from -- and asking for the prosecutor to be fired. >> brennan: i know you covered the ukraine and watch russia >> did joe biden -- j biden knos son was sitting on a board being

investigated for corruption and the guy doing the investigation joe biden said if you don't fire this guy i will cut a million dollars of aid off? why i am asking that, a lot of republicans don't believe that the "new yorker" and the political fact checkers are really as adequate substitute, i, all i am asking is due to joe biden's scenario, what you did for trump, find somebody, not me, inside of politics to look and see if it makes sense, i love joe biden as a person, but we cannot get, give democrats a pass and go after republicans. >> brennan: our reed is 0 report reporting bill barr was quite upset to see his name linked in that transcript to this call for an investigation. he is linked there to rudy giuliatoeral -- >> did. did you ever talk to trump about anything in the u corruption? no. did the real estate ever ask you to call anybody in the ukraine? did he ever mention going after joe biden? no.

so this is a phone call between two presidents, one just getting reelected, just got elected, congratulations, we are very generous to the ukraine, other countries like germany should do more and oh, by the way i have heard that this prosecutor that got fired maybe he was a good guy and they fired him because he was looking at joe biden's son. could you look into that? congratulations. that to me is not a quid pro quo and the entire whistleblower complaint is based on hearsay and we are with not going to impeach a president based on hearsay as long as i am around a. this is a sham, there is a political smell to this that is far different than mueller. >> brennan: what did you tell the president when you were golfing with him yesterday? are you advising him? >> keep fighting back. we have your back on this. i am openly telling everybody in the country idt's back because i think this is a setup. work with us on guns. try to do something on prescription drugs. govern the country and make iran

pay a price. he had a measured response when they shot down the drone, it didn't work, mr. president. they are running wild, the iranians put them back in a box. try to be a good president, defend yourself, and that's what bill clinton did. these numbers you saw. >> brennan: right. >> the only thing i can tell you, americans are fair. and if they believe president trump did something troubling they will account for that. but i don't think they are going to remove 0 a man from office based on a hearsay accusation and bill clinton was able to to do two things at once. defend himself and govern the country. and that's my advice to president trump. >> brennan: senator graham, thank you. we are joined now by connecticut dehoraveto the ukraine earlier this month and met with president zelensky there, good morning to you senator, you just heard senator graham give a full-throated defense of the president here. would you like to respond? >> well, republicans are circling the wagons because they don't this isn't about hearsay evidence this is about a transcript in which the

president of the united states seeks to trade away the credibility of the country, seeks to use the immense power of the presidency in order to destroy a political rival. the whistleblower complaint is absolutely credible, but frankly you don't need it because you have a transcript of a conversation in which the president of the united states tried to convince a foreign leader to interfere in the 2020 election, and you have rudy giuliani on tv every morning and every night openly admitting that as an agent of the president's campaign he has been coordinating with the state department in order to try to perpetuate the president's political agenda. this is not allowable in a democracy, and frankly it him fromssrican foreignpolicy, l reelection campaign? the ukrainians don't have a lot of interest in interfering in our election, you hear that there the way zelensky talks but

does ask the russians or the saudis to interfere in the 2020 election, they will simply ask when and how. >> brennan: the state department has said rudy giuliani does not represent the u.s. government there, they tried to make that clear, but when you went to ukraine earlier this month and you met with president zelensky, in the brief telling of that president trump this week acuted you of threatening the ukrainian president. what exactly did you say? >> well, first of all, of course rudy giuliani is attempting to speak for the united states, the government, right? and you can understand how the ukrainians are confused when the personal representative of the president is coming to them and asking them to help destroy one of his tical rivals and y alndstand how the bidf eresi of the united states there might be consequences that come to them. when i went to the ukraine three weeks ago, i told the preside interfering in the 2020 presidential election and if he wants to talk to the united states government he should talk to the state department, because

i had heard these concerns thatd what the consequences would be if they said no to the president's request to investigate the bide dense and they, bidens and right, they worried rightly there might be a consequence to their security and that just stands to reason, remember, whether or not there is an explicit quid pro quo there is is an implicit threat in every demand the president of the united states makes, if you don'if youdon't do what the pret wants there is cash. >> brennan: did you ask if thinking anything to these insinuations around joe biden? no, that didn't come up because we already know that there is zero evidence for the claims that the president is making, in fact, the prosecutor at the time was not investigating this company and that there is zero evidence to suggest -- >> brennan: well with the investigate investigation was open and not being prosecuted -- >> i remember, the vice president was doing what every one of our allies was doing,

this was a corrupt, incompetent prosecutor, the vice president biden, the eu, the imf everyone was call for his removal, and by the way at the time there wasn't a single republican in the united states congress who was raising an issue with what the vice president was doing. it only comes up now they are trying to defend the corrupt actions of this president. >> brennan: you sat on the oversight of the state department, secretary pompeo has been subpoenaed by house commit fee, a number of diplomats are coming for depositions this week, why up to this point has the state department refused to hand over some of the documents do you have any insight into that? >> well, listen, we are learning by the day how deeply integrated the state department was into trump's corrupt ans, essentially what trump is trying to do -- >> brennan: you think secretary pomp crow was directls in theepar d know wheththe secre himself was involved, but what you cannot allow is for the president to use the massive

power of his office, the credibility of the united states in order to try to get foreign countries to interfere in an american election. that's what he was doing here today and that's why you have seen this mas receive turn of public opinion, that's why americans know that you have to open an impeachment inquiry. >> brennan: is it possible to do what lindsey graham here for the president to actually get things done legislatively? are democrats really willing to work with him? >> i am willing to walk and chew gum at the same time, i would love to get work done on background checks on guns, so if the president is willing to work with us on guns, i am ready to do it, if we don't get a background checks deal the only reason it doesn't get done is because the president is distracted not because his potential partners in congress wo won't work with him. >> brennan: thank you, senator murphy, we will be back in a minute. don't go away. without my medication, my small tremors would be extreme.

without it, i cannot write my name. i was diagnosed with parkinson's. i had to retire from law enforcement. it was devastating. one of my medications is three thousand dollars per month. prescription drugs do not work if you cannot afford them. for sixty years, aarp has been fighting for people like larry. and we won't stop. join us in fighting for what's right. walking a dog can add thousands walking this many?day. that can be rough on pam's feet, knees, and lower back. that's why she wears dr. scholl's orthotics. they relieve pain and give her the comfort to move more so she can keep up with all of her best friends. dr. scholl's. born to move. >> brennan: we go now to texas congressman will hurd, he joins us from burbank, california, congressman, thanks for getting up early to talk to us. you heard senator graham say all

of this is hearsay. we know acting director of national intelligence has said he has no reason to doubt the motives of the whistleblower. where do you fall on this? >> well, first and foremost i think we should be protecting the whistleblower. having laws in place to ensure that folks throughout the government are able to get to the right committees, information which they think may be wrongdoing is important. there are troubling issues within with the whistleblower's report, but they are allegations, and i think that is why we should explore these allegations through hearings where we had a hearing last week, we are going to be having some depositions this week as well. in order to get to the bottom of this, and i will say this. you know, i was never in a terrorist organization, but i collected a lot of intelligence on terrorist organizations when i was an undercover officer in

information send isnot necessarily a bad thing, but i can't speak to the veracity of this whistleblower's information. >> brennan: right. but that's why we bring people and we try to collect facts, understand what was said. and be methodical about this. we shouldn't rush it, but we should explore many of those issues highlighted be at this whistleblower. >> brennan: so do you support the impeachment inquiry? >> well, an impeachment inquiry i think this is wordplay being used by speaker pelosi in order to placate some of the stream wings of her party. the last three times in history that there was an impeachment inquiry of a president it was a vote on the house floor and it was done in a bipartisan way. there are many of my friends on the other side of the aisle that have been trying to impeach this president since january of 2017, but these are investigations, we should bring witnesses forth, i want to hear from the pokes in the state department, i want to

hear from mayor giuliani, i want to hear from hunter biden, i think he should show up and testify as well too, so there are a lot of questions to be had. and anybody who thinks that we have enough information to make a statement on impeesm, that is incredibly premature. >> brennan: the president was captured on camera this week saying that whoever told the whistleblower any of this is a spy and that he should be dealt with in the old way. many perceive that to be a threat. how did you hear it and what are your concerns? >> well, again, a whistle blowers are important, i am concerned about the identity of this current whistleblower. we should hear from the whistleblower and talk to this individual about motives, who were they talking to. >> brennan: william? >> i hope, i know the whistleblower has told both the house and the senate committees that he or she is interested and willing to testify, that will be important. i hope we can protect this

individual's name. i find it highly unlikely in this incredibly partisan environment, it is unfortunate, i believe that chairman schiff is handling this like this is a tribal council on survivor and voting somebody off the island, this is serious business. we should be proceeding on the house side the way the senate is, and do this stuff in a thoughtful manner and transparency is important, after we have done our work, let the american people know what is happening. but trying to do this in the public eye is having impact on our foreign policy. the fact that -- i am sure many leaders of other countries are concerned about speaking to the u.s. president because they are afraid their words are going to get out into the u.s. press. so these -- this type of thing is having an impact on our foreign policy, especially at a time when you have the threats like iran, especially at a time when you are dealing with the economic shenanigans of china. this is where we should be -- our allies should feel comfortable having conversations

with us. >> brennan: to be clear it was the white house who released that call transcript. >> #02: that is correct, that is correct. >> brennan: all right, congressman hurd, we have to leave it there, thank you so much for your insights and we will be watching the developments over the coming weeks. we will be back in a moment. with more than 85 years of experience over multiple market cycles. with portfolio managers who are encouraged to do what's right over what's popular. focused on helping me achieve my investors' unique goals. can i find an investment firm that gets long term the way i do? with capital group, i can. talk to your advisor or consultant for investment risks and information. (beep) the ups and downs of frequent mood swings can plummet you to extreme lows. (crying) lift you to intense highs. (muffled arguing) or, make you feel both at once. overwhelmed by bipolar i symptoms?

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>> brennan: some of our stations are leaving us now, but we will be right back with a lot more "face the nation". there was a lot of news this week. we will have analysis ahead on our impeachment panel so don't go away. >> the juul record.

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