>> brennan: welcome back to "face the nation". we turn now to a democrat on the house intelligence committee. alabama congresswoman terri sewell, congresswoman, welcome. >> thank you so much, margaret. >> brennan: now the accusation is that democrats were chomping at the bit to impeach but you say you were actually very reluctant to move ahead with this. >> look, it is not because i didn't think that there were really unpresidential behavior by this president from moment one, but because i was worried that it would get us sidetracked from other more important items for the american people, but i do believe that we have crossed a rubicon here. i do believe that this whistleblower allegation is so serious it gets to the very heart of our nation's democracy,

the integrity of our elections, and if any district understands that, it is my district, alabama seventh congressional district which was the civil rights district where people died, fought, bled fortis are at ques. wh pnt of the united states asks a foreign leader for a favor and then withholds millions of dollars of foreign aid in order to solicit interference in our election, i don't think it gets more important than that. >> brennan: as you have heard the republicans dispute this idea that there was a quid pro quo, and dismiss this whistleblower as relaying hearsay. >> you don't need a quid pro quo, the complaint speaks for itself and it collaborates the partial readout we read earlier in the week. so i think none of us come to congress to try and impeach the president. i know the people that elected in toe go to congress to lower prescription drug prices for them to make sure that we have equal level playing field when

it comes to education, but i think that we find ourselves at a very sombering moment in american history and we can either choose to live by the oath that we took, which is to uphold this constitution and get to the bottom of what is going on. we need to understand that what the speaker has done is initiated an inquiry, an inquiry, and obviously the road map is the complaint. it raises lots of concerns as to the extent of this president's portrayal and we need to get to the bottom of that and we will do so in a deliberate manner. >> brennan: deliberate hear. how quickly is this actually going to move from inquiry to articles of impeachment. >> i can tell you we in the intel committee are working diligently through this break, and we don't know exactly when it will come, but we do know that we are working in a deliberate, thoughtful manner. we will follow the facts where they lead us, and the american people deserve to understand and know to what extent did the

president, you know, interfere in our elections and to what extent has there been a coverup? i think all of those things are unfortunately, we are at this moment in american history but we need to live up to our oath if the president, if the president is not living up to his. >> brennan: as a democrat you say this worried you you wouldn't be able to get real work done for your constituents in the polling cbs has done 42 percent of people polled saying congress will still work on legislate lay and 58 percent say they will just be too distracted. >> but we already have shown we can do both. >> brennan: can you work with the real estate when there is an effort underway to impeach him? how is it possible to do both things? >> first of all we can do things in a methodical, diligent way. the intel committee will conduct the investigation and i am on the house ways and means committee. we are working diligently to address surprise building and the prescription drug problem that we have in america and also on the working group of democrats is looking at u.s. mca

so we have a lot of things going on simultaneously. we are multitaskers as legislators and we can do both. >> brennan: congresswoman, thank you very much and we will be tracking how the committee investigation continues. we will be right back with the president's personal attorney rudy giuliani. he is standing by for us in new

>> brennan: we are back now with president trump's personal attorney, rudy giuliani, who is called a central figure in the

whistleblower complaint. he joins us there new york this morning. mr. mayor, thank you for joining us. >> thank you, margaret. >> brennan: why wouldn't the president reach out first to law enforcement to his own agencies if his concern was truly about corruption? why bring this up in a phone call with the leader of the ukraine? >> well, this goes back actually to november of 2018. i wasn't asking for this. someone came to me, a very well respected investigator, american citizen, and told me that in the ukraine, there were a number of allegations of interference in the 2016 election that appeared to be real and truthful, unlike the russian collusion hoax, and that it was really ironic that hillary clinton, the democra natial committee,assy wa colleing dirt goi e ely part trump campaign, on pe

who operated in the trump campaign, on the president and that there were witnesses, quite a few of them that would support this and they have been trying to get it to the fbi for a year to a year and a half, they have been frustrated in doing so. so having gotten that, as his defense lawyer, i had to pursue it, they would not talk to the fbi because -- >> brennan: the fbi director appointed by president trump, you are saying refused to look at this? >> i didn't say he refused to look 0 at it i just said they were afraid. >> brennan: you just said -- >> i said they were afraid to go to the fbi because they had been turned down so often and one of the central figures in it is an fbi agent who appears to be involved in the gathering of dirt, work with a particular company owned by george soros that was collecting this information, that company is one of the companies where biden's bribery of poroshenko he got that case dismissed, people are ignoring that that biden played a role in getting these

collusion allegations covered up by having the case against an tack the dismissed. so it was all one piece .. the reason i investigated it is as his defense lawyer, it is my job to show if there is an alternative explanation that proves him innocent. i got us to the point. let me finish, i got it to the point of affidavits. i put them all online. here is one of them -- >> well, i am sorry can we finish on the first point you brought up, because it is very complicated, mr. mayor. i want to -- >> i knowno to -- >> brennan: no, i want to actually -- i want to bring out to you -- we did, actually cbs news and our partners in the ukraine went to the prosecutor general to ask him specifically. >> which one? >> brennan: -- about the biden questions you are raising, the current one, let's play the clip, please. >> and -- okay. if you start your investigation

in the united states, we can officially help you. according to international law, we will give you legal international assistance. >> have you got any evidence that joe biden acted in any way which supported hunter biden's company? >> it is not my jurisdiction. >> but have you got any? >> it is not my jurisdiction. i can't do nothing which is connected with ukraine and law -- >> under ukrainian law you have got nothing. >> nothing. >> that was sergei, one of the advisors to the current president, we also spoke off camera to the prosecutor who says there was no evidence there. >> margaret, this exceedingly embarrassing, mr. -- has been fired by the current president. mr. lusenko is exactly the prutorhat bid in in order to containing the case. and it is suspected. >> brennan: you met with him repeatedly, he said about this.

>> he is not the current prosecutor general. >> brennan: i know i said the prosecutor general -- the prosecutor general we spoke with off camera as well, and he had -- to the "washington post" and other organizations said -- he didn't have evidence -- about anything. >> maybe you are so blinded because it is a democrat you not doing your job, your job properly the one you should have spoken to was the one who was fired who said in this affidavit he was fired specifically because he was investigating joe biden's son. this has been online for six months. >> brennan: uh-huh. >> and the washington media just closes their eyes to it. that's the wrong prosecutor general you talking to. >> brennan: the prosecutor general you are referring to there is victor shokin and you shared that with our 0 team and we did look at it and he was called to be fired not just byer organitions sa was fired for -- you are saying he wasn't doing. >> but, margaret he says the opposite under oath.

>> brennan: in austrian court you are showing there, yes and the -- on behalf of another individual facing extradition to the united states. >> i invite your reporters, who i am sure are interested in digging out corruption to see if this isn't corroborated by three other prosecutors who say the same thing. the one thing you, the one you interviewed is the one who was corrupted. and these allegations. >> brennan: mr. mayor want to ask you about something that is developed in the past few hours. >> including against soros. >> brennan: i want to ask you because you may have direct knowledge here, since you have said kurt volcker the u.s. envoy to the ukraine set up those meetings you said for you with ukraine's leaders, he has resigned, do you know why? >> i don't know why kurt resigned, i mean,. >> brennan: he is being deposed this week. >> kurt did his job honorably and decently. i think already a lot of people in the state department who maybe have questions about what

he did and why he did it but i should tell you, he wasn't the only one. he was joined by another ambassador who talked to me, debriefed me, gave me information about what to ask mr. urmack. >> brennan: who is thaded. >> i didn't do this at my own, i did this at the request of the state department and i have all of to text messages to prove it, and i also have a thank you from them for doing a good job. so -- >> brennan: who sent you that? >> why is the state department. >> did pompeo ask you to do this things? >> he did not mr. volcker did and mr. sunday lynn did but after i talked to the secretary last week he said he was aware of it, he told me he was aware of it. >> brennan: so you are saying the secretary of state didn't instruct you to set up these meetings but he knew what you were doing when you were meeting with -- i am asking you to claire a guy that. what exactly -- >> i think i clarified it but i am happy to say it again. >> brennan: please do. >> on july 19th, 2019, kurt

volcker called me, text message to prove it, i put it outlast week, would you please, would you allow me to give your phone number to mr. urmack who wants to talk to you to clear up the confusion about your canceled trip to the ukraine. i said, it is up to you. you think i should do it? he said the guy is a straight guy, unlike another lawyer around the real estate who is crooked. i said, i am willing to do it, let me check the guy out first. i called him back two or three days later. we arranged a meeting. he knew about the meeting. at the end of the meeting, i called mr. volcker and ambassador sunday lynn and debriefed them, i told them what i had learned and then on august 11 i had a complete debriefing. >> brennan: all right. >> at the time they didn't mention the secretary of state. they don't have to. they are both ambassadors and assistant secretaries, i think. >> brennan: yes. >> however when i spoke with the secretary last week i said, are you aware of this and he said yes, i know about this. >> brennan: okay. thank you for clarifying that,

mr. mayor. we will be back in a moment with our panel. boss: it's a big responsibility. employee: oh, it's huge. i know, it's huge. boss: and the salary... employee: oh my god, yes. i was literally about to move in with my parents and right before... yeah, so this saved me. boss: i really believe in you. you know? employee: thank you. it's nice to hear that from someone. boss: these are cool. did you...um? where did... ♪what you want, baby i got

♪what you need, you know i got it♪ ♪all i'm askin' is for a little respect♪ excuse me ma'am, would you like to have my seat? ♪r-e-s-p-e-c-t ♪find out what it means to me♪r-e-c-t♪ ♪take care. tcb, oh ♪(sock it to me, sock it to me, sock it to me, sock it to me)♪ ♪a little respect ♪... bade,. >> brennan: it is now time for some analysis from our panel. adam entous is staff writer at

the new yorker, paula reid is a white house correspondent here at cbs, michael morell is cbs news senior national security contributor and former acting director of the cia. he also served as advisor to hillary clinton's campaign in 2016, and rachael bade covers congress for the "washington post". paula, a lot to unpack. let's start with the president's attorney where we just left off there. what stood out to you? >> he didn't answer the core question is if you thought there was any evidence of wrongdoing, why did you go to ukraine? why didn't you go to the u.s. law enforcement. >> the attorney general has been clear that the president has never asked him to look into anything related to the buy dense in the ukraine, rudy giuliani presented this affidavit and there are other officials who give a differing account at the core of this if you think there is a problem why wouldn't you go to the fbi .. why wouldn't you two to the justice department or just trying to sew questions and seeds of doubt in the absence of any true evidence? >> and in that partial call transcript the attorney general is mentioned a few times by the

president, but what you are reporting is that there was no actual contact that happened. >> exactly and i will earned from a person familiar he was angry, he was surprised he would be lumped in with rudy giuliani. rudy giuliani is the president's personal attorney. william barr is an agent's top law enforcement official and raises the question about whether the president thinks those two are one and the same, now, if there is some reason for him to think that, william barr has been -- >> brennan: the way he handled the mueller report, very favorable to the president, now the william barr going forward to try to -- >> brennan: all right. you know russia, you know ukraine, you know what happened at the time, when you hear this sort of retelling of history, what happened during the biden obama years what are you hearing? what stands out to you? >> what stands out to me there is a complete absence of clarity here, right? so there is this image that the vice president acted on his own, no he was the point man .. for administration policy,

interagency agreement, agreements across country we needed to he was not freelancing, the secretary is that there is a deep irony here, right, is that the investigation of him was on the hold and one of the things we were concerned about was that there wasn't enough investigations going on about corruption, it was on hold when biden was pressuring,. >> brennan: this is the company that hunter biden ended up on the board. >> yes, so impressing the prosecutor to be fired was ale creating an opportunity for barisma investigation to reopen, right? so i so-so it is the dt opposite of what everybody thinks. >> brennan: it is confusing to the public, though, as well here and i know you, adam, have been digging into hunter biden and the work he did do for this company. is there any there, there. >> i think there are the two issues, one, should hunter have

taken this position when his father was, you know, vice president playing a key role in shaping policy toward the ukraine? should some of biden's advisors or white house officials or 0 state officials said to joe biden or hunter biden you should never be on that board? that whenever happened, that's a legitimate question on whether joe biden awed his office in order to have choke kin, this prosecutor fired, sphint a lot of time looking at this, much of what i see is the on sit. the oligarch who recruited hunter to be on this board, when choke kin was the 0 prosecutor he was in the ukraine, he felt safe, according to former board members, he didn't feel like he had any -- he wasn't in legal jeopardy at all, it was once choke kin was fired and se in. ko is the person you interviewed here took over as prosecutor, that's when the oligarchs, lichevky left the company he went to dubai he was concerned he might actually be prosecuted so actually when choke kin

leaves, that's when the oligarch feels like he is actually in jeopardy. >> brennan: rachel, you heard senator graham on 0 this program fully defend the president here. there is someone who knows the details of this region, these policies. are other republicans stand gig president. >> much of the pa party is standing with the the president, we are seeing limit lit cracks, privately we hear a lot of griping why the president put out this transcript to begin with and think that there is something that really is damaging. we have seen a couple of republicans start to crack, mitt romney, for example, came out and said this was disturbing, sort of unacceptable, we saw republicans in a hearing last week mike turner from dayton, ohio say that this sort of actiinn lear to investigate a political adversary is not okay, but there is a point between some republicans and i can probably count them on one or two hands that are willing to say this

sort of activity is not acceptable and actually saying that this is an impeachable offense, we saw an interesting flip flop over the weekend with a republican from nevada, am ma day saying let's see where this goes, he was asked about the impeachment inquiry and it seems like he was supporting it saying, you know,, there is an investigation, there are concerning allegations here, let's see where it goes, well, within 24 hours he totally walked back on that and said, i was never supporting the impeachment investigation and again this is just showing that this is a party that sticks with the president who is very popular with their base. >> brennan: mike, the whistleblower, as we have been reporting came from the intelligence community. and yet you have ying everything laid out in that complaint was just hearsay. from the work you saw, that was then made public, does that look like it is based just on hearsay. >> the whistleblower seems to me to be highly credible,

whistleblower made a number of allegations, we know that the first allegation that the phone call was made and the ask was made about investigating the vice president was 100 percent correct. the whistleblower lays out not just the fact they received this from one source but multiple sources. the whistleblower complaint is details. it is compelling. we still need to look into the other allegation it is but i think whistleblower is highly credible. >> brennan: in other words, this looks like an analysis product, that an agency would produce? >> so when i read it, i said, this is a high quality piece of cia analysis. the person who wrote it is well-trained, they are highly skilled. i was kind of proud of the product, right, in looking at it. it seemed to me like this was a piece of cia analysis. nn paula, are white house officials actually nervous or embracing impeachment as a fight they want to have? >> look, the president is not likely to be removed from

office, that is just basic math, so far this administration has constantly been under this kind of controversy and scandal, but the real concern concern is now this impeachment inquiry and possible articles of impeachment makes it almost impossible to expect any kind of success from the legislative front. they were making some congress getting the president's proposal together for gun control legislation. they were hoping for something on prescription drugs, the usmca and now the biggest concern is they may not have much to show when they go on the campaign trail in 2020, particularly a trade deal, the president so far has not been able to get any of his trade deals actually approved, the usmca was his big hope and with this, unlikely. >> brennan: adam, why aren't we seeing joe biden out there sitting down, actively defending his son and giving detailed explanations for all of this? there is a lot ofirt being kicked into their ean there is aeason w this is a reall particularly delicate inhe period we are talking about thsh is right when bow islastr of lik

with this ukrainian company and historically, you know, aides to biden never want to addressed this issue with him, it was too sensitive, things that involved his family were just considered to be off limits largely to his staff, and i think to a fall fault, you know, he was reluctant to really say anything to his son, you know, about the appropriateness of some of his business choices and the way they dealt with it was like don't ask, don't tell policy where hunter wouldn't tell his father about his activities. and joe biden wouldn't ask. and so they just had this area they didn't discuss and that kind of allowed this thing to sort of stew and obviously if this had been addressed early on in 2014, when this became public that he was on this board, you know, we wouldn't be maybe discussing it now. >> brennan: rachel is opening the inquiry ultimately something

that could backfire for democrats because it keeps this story out there? >> that was the number one concern, speaker nancy pelosi had about impeachment when she opened the new congress this year. i mean, she has been the single greatest reason why democrats overwhelming i will have not charmed forward, but this pelosi has said to her colleagues, she said it publicly this is something different. this is -- there were concerns, for example, that robert mueller's report about 10 instances of potential obstruction of justice that wasn't resonating where the public and suggestions that even federal prosecutors named trump as the number one individual involved in allegations of -- well, actually baig off women who alleged affairs with the president in 2016, that wasn't resonating with the public and the public wasn't supporting impeachment, but what we are seeing in some of these cbs numbers just today that that is changing, if the five percent supporting an impeachment inquiry, more people supporting the impeachment of the president than actually do not, bell

situate it seems was right this is something different and this banorng toov public

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that's it for us today. thank you for watching. the and thank you to the law firm for hosting us. until next week for "face the nation", i am margaret brennan.