captioning sponsored by cbs >> brennan: it's sunday, october 6th. i'm margaret brennan in the nation's capital, and this is "face the nation." >> everything to me is about corruption. >> brennan: washington weathers another week of fallout from president trump's now-infamous july 25th call with ukrainian president zelensky. at issue, a request for ukraine to investigate former vice president joe biden and his son hunter. was it a quid pro quo for the u.s. releasing millions in military aid to that country? the house impeachment inquiry is under way. is the pressure getting to the president? >> she hands out subpoenas like they're cookies in you want a subpoena? here you go, take one, like

they're cookies. >> brennan: nancy pelosi is adopting a different tone. >> impeaching a president or having an investiga psident is t anything to be joyful about. >> brennan: but many republicans claim this is just political stunt. our guest, top republican senator missouri's roy blunt and two key house democrats, foreign affairs committee chairman eliot engel and congressman jim himes, who sits on the intelligence committee. plus we'll hear from two journalists who closely covered past impeachments, the "washington post's" bob woodward and peter baker of "the new york times." all this and political analysis of the week up next on "face the nation." good morning, and welcome to "face the nation." there has been another series of stunning developments in the story that is consuming washington. president trump continues to attack his critics, pleading

over 160 times this week. he also made several free-wheeling appearances filled with unsubstantiated claims alongside visiting foreign leaders. >> biden and his son are stone-cold crooked. and you know it. his son walks out with millions of dollars. the kid knows nothing. you know it and so do we. go ahead, ask a question. >> the question, sir, is what did you want president zelensky to do about vice president biden and his son hunter? >> are you talking to me? >> yeah, that's follow-up of what i just asked you? >> the only thing that matters is the transcript of the actual conversation that i had with the president of ukraine. it was perfect. >> your own d.n.i. said the call transcript was consistent with the complaint. >> no, no. he didn't say that. >> he did say that. >> no, no, no. he did not sayfthat. >> brennan: but he did. >> i would say that the whistleblower's complaint is ind

yesterday by the president. >> brennan: curt -- kurt volker, mr. trump's special envoy, resigned last week. ambassa thengress as tween hi career state department envoy bill taylor. the texts encourage ukraine to launch an investigation in exchange for a white house visit. this from volker to a ukrainian aide. assumeing they get to the bottom of what happened in 2016, we will mail down date for visit to washington. president trump also asked another country the look into former vice president and his son hunter. >> by the way, likewise should start an investigation into the bidens. >> brennan: biden responded angrily. the. there has been no indication of any conflict of interest from ukraine or anywhere else. period. i'm not going to respond to

that. let's focus on the problem. focus on this man. have you ever seen rhetorical questions, a president ever so unhinged as this guy is. that's what worries me. let the house focus on what they're focusing on in the senate, and i'm going to go out and i'm going to beat him on the merits. thank you. >> brennan: congress is seeking documents from vice president pence and secretary of state pompeo. >> nations do this. nations work together and they say, boy, goodness gracious, if you can help me with exf, we'll help you chief y, this is what partnerships do. it's win-win. >> brennan: mr. trump acknowledged he may be impeached. >> so the democrats, unfortunately they have the votes, and then we'll get to the senate, and we're going to win. the republicans have been very unified. >> brennan: that's true, for the most part, but there are some cracks in republican unity. utah senator mitt romney called the president's ukraine and

china requests brazen and unprecedented, wrong and appalling. nebraska's ben sasses and maine's susan collins were also critical. and with that we begin this morning with missouri republican senator roy blunt. he's part of republican party leadership and he joins us here in studio. good morning.orys representing now multiple in ret complaint. it was first revealed in august. it related to concern that the president was seeking foreign interference in the 2020 election. how should this be handled? what will nat intelligence do? >> well, as you know, the senate intelligence committee that i serve on has been asked to look at this to see if we can't assemble all of the facts. i think that gives us a responsibleility to get the facts before we reach conclusions. others who haven't been asked to do that might reach their conclusions a little quicker than we are, but in terms of

other people stepping forward, i heard it earlier today that maybe this would be a firsthand source, which means they -- >> that's what the attorney says? >> i guess it means they have seen the transcript we have all seen. emmunth.y, i.gs f torhere sometg wrong with the whistleblower law that people who were firsthand sources told somebody else and tried to get that other person to come forward. i think it will be interesting to find out more about who that person is and what kind of contacts they had. we do know that they contacted the democrats on the house intelligence committee and then chairman schiff said that didn't happen, but we're all sort of firsthand sources now that we've all seen the transcript, and let's see what else actually that really means that you've got somebody else coming forward. >> brennan: well, that initial -- there were about half a dozen individuals who could back up what he said. the attorney for the second

whistleblower says there is firsthand knowledge. >> well, that might be, but we've all seen the transcript now, sog we can all back up what the whistleblower said as it relates to the transcript. i think actually the speaker chose a fairly narrow topic here to move forward on. it's not very confusing, one way or another you're going to decide, is what the president says he said not. an i think it's a different situation when the president actually says, he's what i said and here's why i said it, and i think the president says he thinks he was on solid ground and we'll see what other facts might come to the floor that have an impact on that. >> brennan: are you comfortable with what the president has said here in this call for foreign government, ukraine and china, to investigate his political opponents? >> well, i doubt if the china comment was serious, to tell you the truth? >> brennan: you don't take the president as it words is this. >> no, the frommed loves to go out on the white house driveway, i haven't talked to him about.

this i don't know what the president was thinking, but i know he loves to bait the press, and he does that almost every day to see what you'll talk about and maybe what he was hoping was -- >> brennan: so you don't believe the president. is that appropriate to ask for a foreign government to interpeer? >> i don't imagine that's what he does doing. >> brennan: but is it appropriate? >> certainly we shouldn't expect the chinese, the russians or any other national security adversaries to be help informal any way, and if they do come forward with information, you would have to seriously question whether there was any information or not. >> brennan: so with we establish a fact here because you're on senate intelligence. you're part of one of the only bipartisan investigations into election meddling. is there any shadow of a doubt that it was russia that interfered in 2016? >> no shadow of a doubt that russia interfered. >> brennan: because you're hearing from others, including the president's attorney, these ideas that maybe ukraine meddled. have you seen any facts to substantiate that? >> i think there are some facts that indicate ukraine was

involved in some things like purporting to have information that manafort that even mueller didn't use. i don't know if that came or '1e way the russians did. i think you have to assume that the russians, the north koreans, the iranian, the chinese all are trying to get in our systems all the time. and every one of them and others would see anything good for them is bad for the united states and more importantly anything bad for the united states is good for them. >> brennan: when the president says things like you did in that call record, that there is a server in ukraine, is that a conspiracy theory or have you -- >> brennan: >> i don't have any information on that. >> brennan: is it fact? do you know it to be true? >> i don't know. >> brennan: is it anything that your committee has looked into. >> brennan: >> not that i'm aware of. >> brennan: is it worth looking into? >> we've tried the stay bipartisan. i think intel committee in the senate has been able to do that. i hope we're able to do that

through the next few weeks as renigh troy to put a fairly small fact set together. this is not like going back and looking at anything any outside source might have done in the ky one that the president says is accurate and then trying to determine what more may be out there. >> brennan: your republican colleague, senator ron johnson told the "wall street journal" in an interview, that he had a conversation, he was personally told by the u.s. ambassador in the e.u., that if ukraine would get to the bottom of what happened in 2016 if president trump has that confidence, then he'll release military spending. johnson then says in this interview, at that suggestion, i winced. my reaction is, i don't want to see those two things denied. the president denied having anything to do with this, but he's substantiating in this interview on the record that there was discussion of a quid pro quo. >> well, remember, some of these ambassadors in these discussions

haven't had any diplomatic experience. just the fact that you'd e was c ithis job. does he need to be held accountable? >> he does. they all do. they all need to be held accountable. >> brennan: do you think -- his personal attorney is suggesting that. >> i have no reason to know that. >> brennan: is that something that's worth looking into? >> i think this fact set is fairly small. i think we need to put it together and then determine if the president's statement that he said this, what that really means. i do think it's not unusual for a foreign leaders when they talk to each other to say, here's something i'd like you to do for me, whether it's a trade agreement or some other agreement. i don't think that's unusual. but i think the question here is going to be is this going to be part san effort on the part of the house, do the facts really matter, and frankly, margaret, if they come -- >> brennan: what happens when it gets to the senate? >> i think a lot depends on what

happens in the house. you have to assume if it's a partisan vote in the house, that that sets the stage for a likely same kind of vote in the senate, but let's see what the facts are. >> brennan: senator blunt, appreciate you joining us today. we turn now to a top democrat. connecticut congressman jim himes joins us from stamford. congressman, welcome the "face the nation." >> good morning, margaret. >> brennan: you just heard senator blunt there. i want to ask you the same question in regard to the whistleblower. we are now hearing multiple have come forward in relation to that initial complain our committee heard f n obvuslyd not even from the initial whistleblower, whose identity is still hopefully being profected, but we have obviously heard all about the complaint and the inspector general has told us all of the background around that, but, no, we have not heard from a second. but margaret, this actually

highlights an interesting aspect of this whole mess, which is as much as donald trump is raging against adam schiff and nancy pelosi and the democrats and subpoenas like cookie, his problem is not with the democrats. it's not with people like me. we're sitting here watching the information flow out of the white house, damning information, facts that are undisputed. what's happening, margaret, is people around the president, professional, who are in the oval office, who are in the situation room, are watching what is happening and are finally saying, my god, this cannot happen anymore, and they are coming forward, either as whistleblowers, as apparently two people are going to do officially, but also by leaking. a lot of this story is coming out because people who are in the room are talking to the "washington post" and "the new york times" and to others. so the preside final got on the a p whereeople are saying, enough. clari tuation room.e you the owlee l? saying is that there

were stories before we even saw the original whistleblower complaint in the press about this whistleblower complaint that were coming from sources that had firsthand knowledge. so you know, because they were press source, i don't know who they are. again, leaking to the press is not the way to do this. the way to do this is to do what the whistleblower did, but my point is whether they were in the room or had firsthand knowledge or talked to somebody who had firsthand knowledge, people who are in the very core of all of these events are saying, this can't happen anymore. so again, the president's problem is not with the democrats or with adam schiff, it's with the fact that people around him are saying, we can't tolerate this anymore. >> brennan: is the impeachment inquiry going the stay narrowly focused on this issue with ukraine and this phone call, or do you see the scope widening? >> i think it's likely the stay narrowly focused on what is a threat to our national security.

and look, there's any number of issues you can take up with this president, butkacndea t muell report, there are some awful, awful stuff in there where the president is ordering investigations to end or ordering somebody to go tell the department of justice to stop that investigation, stuff that would have resulted in barack obama being impeached 0 -- 30 times over, but i cothink this speaker of the house understands that there is -- remember, impeachment is at its heart a political rather than a legal thing. that's why it's in the congress as opposed to the court system. i think that speaker pelosi understands that americans feel in their bones, in their heart a challenge to our national security. this kind of corruption. they understand that a lot better than they understand obstruction of justice or refusal to abide by congressional subpoena, which are also very, very serious offenses that the president has committed. >> brennan: to that point, republicans say, if democrats are so certain and so unified,

why don't they put this to a vote to go ahead with the inquiry. understanding that's not not at least kill that talking point for them? >> well, you know, if you try to spend your time killing republican talking points, you'll do nothing else. i mean, i heard it from senator blount just now. leaders ask other leaders for favors. yeah, that may be true. i'm sure presidents have in the past asked other reeders for favors. traditionally those favors have not been research my political opponent. >> brennan: are the votes there, though? >> sorry? >> brennan: are there enough votes, though? are democrats truly unified? >> if speaker pelosi did, in fact, move forward with a floor vote on actually proceeding with an investigation, which as you point out is not required here, there is no question in my mind that she would have the votes, yes. >> brennan: i want to ask about these subpoenas that the house committees have put forward to the white house, to

the second -- secretary of state inch reading through this na sensitive national security related documents that are likely to be covered by executive privilege. what do you actually expect reasonably for the committee to actually get ahold of? >> well, that's a great question, right? one of the things we need to rebuild in this country in the post-trump era is what actually executive privilege means. executive privilege does not mean that you get to hide embarrassing documents. executive privilege, and you know this margaret, stems from the idea that the president ought to be able to get advice from his advisers that is not subsequent to second-guessing or oversight by congress down the road. it doesn't mean that you move a really embarrassing transcript off of a traditional server on to a highly class find server because you understand if that got throughout in the public, it's a problem. it's not about hiding embarrassment. it's not about keeping people from testifying that might

produce uncomfortable facts. so again, i expect this white house to continue to stonewall attempts to get at the truth. this is what they've done from the very beginning, but again, my republican friends need to remember that there will be a-3 democratic president some day, and they will want to do oversight of that democratic president, so as they rise to the defense of donald trump, they need to remember that they're establishing precedents here that are going to really come back to bite them down the road. >> brennan: all right. congressman jim himes, thank for you time. we'll be back in one minute with a lot more "face the nation." don't question away. s here to hp you with turning ideas into action. putting your business on the map, connecting with customers, and getting the skills to use new tools. so, in case you're looking, we've put all the ways we can help in one place. free training, tools, and small business resources are now available at google.com/grow

come on! let's hide in the attic. no. in the basement. why can't we just get in the running car? are you crazy? let's hide behind the chainsaws. smart. yeah. ok. if you're in a horror movie, you make poor decisions. it's what you do. this was a good idea. shhhh. i'm being quiet. you're breathing on me! if you want to save fifteen percent or more on car insurance, you switch to geico. it's what you do. let's go to the cemetery! >> brennan: we're back now with new york democratic congressman ted engelking. -- eliot engel. he is in new york this morning. good morning to you, congressman. >> good morning, margaret. >> brennan: secretary of state pompeo yesterday said that congress has harassed and abused his state department team by contacting diplomats rather than their lrs first. complying withr

inquiry? >> well, he's not complying with the inquiry so far. we're hoping there are discussions that are ongoing and we're hoping that he will comply, although it's kind of laughable, you know, since the administration and trump has been president, we have been getting numerous complaints from people who work at the state department about all kinds of harassment by this administration where people were summarily let go or fired because they were deemed to be the wrong political persuasion or the wrong ethnic persuasion, all kinds of things. so i find it really laughable that the secretary of state suddenly has this great concern for the state department when he's done anything but since he's been secretary of state. >> brennan: so you will this week have the chance or your committee members will have the chance to question a number of diplomats.

the e.u. ambassador, gordon sumlin, ukraine is not part of the e.u. why was he part of this text message exchange? why is he part of these arrangements to line up meetings for rudy giuliani and ukrainian lead centers -- leaders? >> that's a good question. if i had my druthers, ukraine would be part of the european union and would be part of nato. that's why the president's reckless actions are a threat to national security, because what we're doing, what he attempted to do was withhold much-needed aid for ukraine. ukraine is under constant threat by russia. i mow the president has a habit of wanting to please putin, but the fact of the matter is we should bot threaten them, not withhold money, not tell them to play a political game, and the president just doesn't seem to care. putin interfered in the 2016 election.

and now the president thinks it's fine to do his bidding for the 2020 election. >> brennan: is your impeachment inquiry going to expand beyond ukraine? >> well, i don't know. we'll have to see the way it goes. i think there's frankly plenty enough material that we have right now. our elections are really integral, and the fact of the matter is that the president says to the leader of ukraine, do us a favor and i'll mix in what the president really doesn't own, it's the country that owns it, and he's trying to use this for political gain. that's really an absolute disgrace. it's never been done before in this manner. >> brennan: i'll ask you the same question i asked congressman himes. if democrats have the certainty of their on conviction when it

comes to going ahead with this impeachment inquiry, why not put it to a vote? there is historical precedent. there that's how it has been done. you may not need it, but why not do it? >> i'm not troubled by it, but there is no reason to do it. there's no rule that says you have to do it. it's perfectly all right the way it is. >> brennan: wouldn't it show a unified front? >> well, i don't mow if it would show a unified front, because the republicans are keeping quiet. they're not acting out. they're just rallying around the president. it's r it's absolutely disgraceful. so they keep throwing things into the mix to say the democrats should do this. the democrats should do that. what we should all do is make sure that the integrity of our election stands and that the president isn't taking something that's not his to barter with in trying to get goods on joe biden's son that he would withhold this kind of important

aid from an ally. it is just unconscionable. it just undermines our national security. it's a threat. it's not something that we should even consider. >> brennan: uh-huh. all right. congressman engle, we know you have a lot of questions this week behind closed doors. we hope to be following this story as it develops. thank you for joining us today. we will be right back in a moment. fights cancer, repairs shattered bones, relieves depression, restores heart rhythms, helps you back from strokes, and keeps you healthy your whole life. from the day you're born we never stop taking care of you. ♪ ♪ around here, the only predictable thing about the weather is it's unpredictable. so we make the most of it when the sun does shine.

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[captioning funded by cbs sports division] captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org james: week five in the nfl. phil: there is minshew, we sent phil down to interview him. the problem is, phil came back. nate: mccaffrey is the king. there is none higher. every defense should call him sire.