good morning welcome to mosaic. i am honored to be your house this morning. throughout our country we are faced with a situation in which we are thinking very strongly about how it is we listen to one another and how we are heard by one another. we like to invite you into a wonderful conversation with rabbi who has written this book . ve biissue inour ave , and whatever way we sort of land on different issues of the day what's coming to the board is a way in which we talk to one another and the ways in which we hear one

another. the ways in which we listen. you've written a fantastic book that has to do with understanding and hearing other people's stories and ways in which they are heard and ways in which you can listen to them. let's just jump right in and ask you what led you to this book and tell us the background. >> i worry a great deal about we don't converse anymore. we lost conversation. the political rhetoric on both sides dominates our conversations. this is a conversation about human beings, and ethical issue , and for me it sort of many adolesnce, but realin , i made visit to eastern chad and a form refugee camp. in those camps i say i started listening to refugee stories and i heard --

i saw the best of humanity and i heard about the worst of humanity. i made many subsequent trips. many years later in looking at this, i said i wanted to do something we often forget there is real people involved and that's what led to this book. >> you use this wonderful term real people and as you are talking it occurs to me that listening and hearing has more to do with just the words you hear it has to do with the person in front of you and how you read them and listen to them and sort of take in the entire being. i wondered if you could talk about what that was like for you and what was stimulating to you to continue to understand and hear stories as opposed to reading an article about something. what is it about being with another real human being about listening and hearing? >> i love being with people and technology is great. there's nothing like being with another

person because there's so much more than words. any of the work i've done or on the book of dead throughout the years i try to be fully present so for my book i take all of those interviews. i didn't want to be preoccupied with writing down things that i can't read my own handwriting anyway. let's be full present. it's really bearing witness to another person's life. it's a privilege when people share their story with you. the most difficult times when they have some hope and a break and someone was there for them. it's really going out of yourself into their story and not framing it in one's words but letting them pour out and really take it in. >> shall we jump in and is there a little assumption --. >> all of these people are incredible. i'll take one. a woman lives in houston now.

she is iraq he -- a religion not many people know a lot about . she talks about living in iraq at the time of hussein but in this little passage what i've done here is i highlight their words because it's their stories. i'm just a conduit for telling the stories. she shares. we all lived in fear of hussein and what he might do at any time. he kept the iraqi people isolated from the world. anyone who was sent was killed. to me what hits about that line is one can read that line and just go on. in this country we can't ascend in democracies around the world but in many parts of the world dissenting equals being killed. we have a little bit in this country too it's an exception of the role. in iraq that was the rule. she talks about and this is

what really moves me her grandfather talked about the value of education and stories. when we reached high school my father and grandfather said it was time to start reading books. i have three or four books in english. this was in high school. the first was gone with the wind and i read it in arabic because i worried i might miss something. i read loving the time of cholera. i read that over four times. it transformed me from the reality of my life and the village. she goes on to say i wanted to learn everything and educate myself about the western world hole -- i studied arts and movies and then she says the following to me. by doing all of this reading and by learning my friends called me the imaginary girl because i was always telling them stories of other cultures

and he rose and the stories we jumped in a wonderful conversation.

good morning welcome back to mosaic.

nderful conver this gentleman whose written a wonderful book. storage of courage, resilience and hope in their own words. welcome back to >> thank you. >> were going to read a snippet of the story but you are talking about and iraqi woman who #for a lot of people that's a new word. explain. >> we have little familiarity with this ancient religion. they are monotheistic. they believe the sun is a source of life and inspiration. they don't go to services weekly basis but they have their own way of praying and how they treat people where they are very into valuing human interaction and respect. some of us remember back 2014, when they were trapped on mount

singe are being trapped by isis which we have . ey were being circled around the mountain and we bombed at the bottom and many of them were able to escape. they continue to be persecuted in iraq. >> i think with a branch they are [ inaudible ]. another story. >> the oldest person in the book is a holocaust survivor. each person in the country is different times in different ages. an unbelievable story. the themes of resilience, courage, hope. this one part really get to me. this is a woman that's fierce she spent decades in schools talking about the whole case. she shares when she's living in a bunker for three months underground in a warsaw ghetto. she wod she waa g es llowin was eating from

trash cans leftovers. there i was a teenager with no violence for years now. my father hurt somebody somewhere illegally had apples for sale. he wanted in the worst way to get an apple for me. he never came back. all i know is i lost my father because of an apple. every time i eat enough i remember him. here is a person that takes an experience like that and she is an optimist about life and deeply aware of current events and the fault of the current situation. rather than feeling the sadness which she does inside she views her dad in a positive way. she loves apples and her nickname is the apple . >> this story reminds me ofsome in some cases the person telling their story has told

their story repeatedly. in some cases they are part of a group that goes to an education setting and continues to tell their personal stories in a matter of historical record for studying something of historical reference. in some cases the first time somebody is telling their story and the first time even the most intimate family member reads or hears the story is through your book. we are gonna take a quick rake. i want to ask you what is that position of stories that are repeatedly told, stories told by the very first time? >> just to put it -- three out of the 11 speak often about their stories. that's not an accurate representation. most refugees are never speaking about it. they don't want their children to know the heartache and the hurt. no one has ever asked about their story.

no one has ever sat down and asked. for those people this is really cathartic that they share it and they have a book and their children are seeing it and it's having a great impact on them. to me it emphasizes how important we ask each other about our stories. >> it's an interesting comment. what's the effect of silence and not asking? join us in just a moment.

welcome back to mosaic we are in the middle of a wonderful conversation about the book refugees in america stories of courage, resilience, and hope in their own words. if you'd like to have more information about refugees in

america please go to refugees in america.com. welcome back. we were talking about all the different stories. i'm so interested in the subtitle hope. you have a little piece on that topic that is from one of the folks from the book i wondered if you take a moment to read what he said. >> yes, hope is such an important thing to have in life. for all of refugees i th ther wherthey ho have hope . here is this gentleman suffered terrible brutality from the regime and eventually comes to the states. he gave a graduation speech at university san francisco in 2016, these were part of his talk. it's not an easy road, but hope

is the oxygen of my life. i have hope in humanity. so simple, but so true. a challenge of how do i find hope. what's the source of that for me. why do we give up hope? people have been through so much marriage reflects everyone. to still have hope in humanity even though she's experienced the worst of it. >> you break up such an important point. we try to articulate as best we can. hope. a theological structure. there are core contemporary conversations about what hope is and how it functions. a lot of times i think we think i'm wondering r you, what you learned about hope from these folks?

>> these people have taught me so much about life. one of the things and it's true of every refugee i've met they have great respect for our stories. everyone has a story. their story is dramatically different because they suffered tremendous hardship. from them i gain insight about how to live life and not take education for granted. i find the reminder for me is the prayer allow me to go to bed in peace. allow me to put my head in my pillow tonight in peace be at peace with what i did today and the part of hoallow ke up to newed to relationships again. that's a hopeful prayer. these people have really taught me

one has to have strength one has to have resilience and courage. we all can shape the life we want. one thing they all share in common that they all talk about is they have been lucky. they knew what to do. they didn't squander. they got a break and they walked right into it. >> i think in every faith tradition you would say part of the business is that theology and faith traditions are in. it has to do with the cultivation of hope. we are in the business of hope and maybe that's part of a rationale of faith tradition is to be involved with issues of refugees. cultivating help and captivating when they take a leap of faith.

moving people along the way teaching them a language and a system. helping to understand a culture because it's a way of cultivating hope. i just wonder if that resonates with you about this topic? >> i think there is a deep connection. when we hear stories like this and we read oral history and stories. we learn about others lives. i think part of it is so we have more compassion. if we are motivated to help people like refugees in much better ways than we are helping now. it connects deep within side of us. the refugee experience has lost the home, country, language, everything. >> i want to ask you something. i'm sure viewers are wondering about this as well. hope is very curious in many ways. i think there are some people who would say they actually don't get to choose the way

their lives go. some part of the way hope functions as you discover a place of hope that you didn't know existed. i wonder how you think about the human struggle where people really come to a point of no hope. i don't have a choice about whatever it is. >> there are many people suffering from that. ug teaches us when you have a little window you can find something to be hopeful about. for all human beings there's always a possibility. i have a friend with als i recently talked with him. he talked about a bucket list. he has reshaped it. how grateful he is in life for all the things he did on the bucket list that he dreamt about. he shaped his bucket list to be

realistic for what it means to have als and be confined to a wheelchair. part of it is being realistic about hope. i can't hope to go play professional baseball, but can i hope to be more appreciative of what i have in life. what are we hopeful about. it's realistic. with the right support we can find support and these stories we read can inspire us. thinking about ths said there is hope out there somewhere. >> thank you, for getting to the complexity of it. i think one of the ideas we don't talk about is the way hope converts its self to other forms along the way of the human experience. i'm gonna take another quick break. guess what i learned today.

what's that sweetie? how to count to twenty. maybe i can teach you, because that handwashing was ten seconds, at best. stay healthy and slow the spread. wash your hands for at least twenty seconds. welcome back to mosaic where in a conversation about a

book refugees in america stories of courage, resilience, and hope in their own words. welcome back. i wanted to ask you a couple of logistic questions because i'm sure people out there have an idea for a story or they'd like to do this kind of treatment. can you talk a little bit about how you find a publisher? >> it's a long journey you have to have a lot of patience. you have to have a lot of patience to do a book. this kind of book is much harder than i thought. i'm only reflecting on their stories and i needed to make sure they were happy with it because i'm not writing a book of fiction or academic book its people's lives at stake i wanted to make sure to get it right. i helped to get an agent in new york. the agent shops the book. finally that worked out.

from the time they accepted to the time it's published is a year. i kept saying why would it take so long. it just does. you have to have a lot of patience and set up an agent and to get published. >> in the context of the book is in the category of history or oral history historic? >> category of human rights and history. nonfiction sort of a variety of categories. >> interesting. i wanted to ask you two quick questions. just rewinding a little bit we talked about the people who tell their story regularly and the people who have t i wonder if you could comment a little bit on what that break from silence is like or

consequence in a good way the outcome and the impact of the first time of telling the story. you lead a public document for every manner. >> for the person telling me the story they've gotten more and more intuitive spending hours together. i think the more they felt empowered someone was listening and cared about their story for their families learning about it for the first time. mom or dad went through this. some families say why didn't you tell me earlier. i think of two women in here in particular of a mother's story and all she experienced, and what she then provided for the children. it's having an impact unfolding. the book just came out and we are learning a lot about that. >> what do you hope people actually get from the book itself? >> peopleasa point of

reframing the conversation about comprehensive reform. you've got a start by human story and connecting it to you. for me it's the following. advanced medically, scientifically etc. how do we advance humanely from cain and abel. what gives me hope is a time we have advanced. will i sit and listen to other human beings sharing this earth? i gain hope in the human story in the resilience and courage people have. >> thank you, for your conversation about your book. we encourage you to read this and to hear and tell your stories. thank you, for being with us here on mosaic. ♪

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thuses is kpix news. fiery explosion leaves firefighters in critical condition. this morning, the fire chief provides new details on the most dangerous moments. small businesses fight for financial survival in the bay area. will their upcoming reopenings ease the blow for the shelter in place? >> new evidence suggests you can get the coronavirus through the eyes. recommendations how everyone can protect themselves. >> devin fehely has the morning off. here is a check of our weather with darren. rain in the forecast. >> yes. and