captioning sponsored by cbs >> brennan: i'm margaret brennan in washington and this week on "face the nation," as america continues to come out of his quarantine, the economic downturn continues to take its toll, hitting those who can least afford it the hardest. despite a prediction from the c.d.c. that the death toll will likely exceed 100,000, president trump continues to put a sun shine and rainbow spin on the panc.dentrump: it away. mre. ht te momenand preva what planet is he more than 30 million unemployed and we have prevailed? 1.3million infected.

>> brennan: the president is increasingly anxious to get the economy back on track. >> president trump: vaccine or no vaccine, we're back. >> brennan: and vows to have a vaccine by the end of the year. chairman federal reserve jerome powell says that's what the economy fully needs. >> for the economy to be fully back, it may have to wait the arrival of a vaccine. >> brennan: and we'll ask health and human services secretary secretary alx azar if having millions vaccinated in a year is realistic. the house passes a $3 trillion bill full of pandemic relief, but senate republicans say it is dead on arrival. we'll talk with house speaker nancy pelosi. former white house economic advisor gary cohn will also join us and we'll take a look at the skyrocketing number of americans who ned eding their f.

all of that and more is just ahead on "face the nation." ♪ >> brennan: good morning. and welcome to "face the nation." bythe end of today, 48 states will have reopened businesses or loosened stay-at-home orders in some form. yet none of them have met the federal guidelines of having had two weeks of a declining number of cases. at this point, it's hard to know what the impact is yet of the reopenings. either on the number of cases or on the economy. cbs news national correspondent rk strassman reports from atlanta. mark? >> reporter: good morning, margaret. georgia is one of 48 states to reopen this weekend, every state but massachusetts and connecticut.coinessures. this weekend the reopening

america included beaches and parks, whether it ise, is your judgment call. this northern california restaurant defied a county order to shelter in place. >> i've had it, so has all of my costumers, so has the state of california. let's open up. >> reporter: crowded as it was, virtually no one wore face masks. >> i saw the people in there sitting next to each other, i don't know what they're thinking. >> reporter: they're thinking that the economy keeps taking casualties. 36 million workers filed for unemployment in the last two months. since the crisis began, more than 100,000 small businesses have shuttered for good. they're also thinking in the last two weeks america's new covid cases have declined. but reopening renews worries about a resurgence. >> how you act will determine what happens to you. literally. [yelling] >> reporter: behavior is a wildcard. >> everybody is doing their best. >> reporter: like this

scuffle in san antonio, store employees confronted a customer who refused to wear a face mask. texas reported its highest total number of cases with more businesses set to reopen tomorrow. health experts still don't know how far the virus has spread. only 3% of minor americans have been tested. and they shutter imagining a reopened america looking like this crowded park in san francisco. reopening safely takes discipline. this weekend will show whether people have it, whether they respect the viral threat by following all of the safety rules. with memorial weekend just ahead. margaret? >> brennan: mark, thanks. we go to london and cbs news senior foreign correspondent elizabeth palmer. >> reporter: margaret, all over the world the dilemma is the same: how

and how fast to lift the lockdown, certainly in countries where the infection rate is declining, and also in some where it is still climbing, like russia. moscow was doused in disinfectant has president putin announced he is planning to ease restrictions, even though russia now has the second fastest infection rate in the world after the u.s. another epicenter is brazil, where health workers and grave diggers know this is going to get a lot worse before it gets better. [applause] >> reporter: but in a small victory, brazil's covid belittling president has finally started wearing a mask, sort of. by contrast, in europe, the number of covid victims is going down and thinreg . it is a calculated risk, but life can return to normal, or normalish, without provoking a fresh coronavirus crisis. even the largest church in

the world, st. peter's in deleefore itsot a final reopening tomorrow. the exception is the u.k. >> wait! >> reporter: a handful of protestors did demonstrate in london yesterday against the continuing lockdown. but they were outnumbered by the police and the rest of the country, which is opting for continued caution. on the other side of the world, after a parched 53 days, pubs reopened in northern australia. >> it is delicious and it's cold and it is the first one. >> reporter: and in kiev, nurses cared for 51 tiny babies, all of them born in the pandemic to surrogates. no one wants borders to reopen more than the babies' parents, who are desperate to get to the judiciarukraine to pick them up. and the city of wuhan, where the virus originated

and which almost managed to stamp it out, is now going to test all 11 million of its inhabitants, it is an attempt to find and isolate carriers before they can set off a second wave. >> brennan: elizabeth palmer in london. we want to go to health and human services secretary alex azar. good morning, mr. secretary. >> good morning, margaret. good to be with you again. >> brennan: good to have you. "operation warped speed," which is what the white house is calling this push to have a vaccine by the end of the year, 300 million doses is the promise -- can you be clear here: is the pledge that all 328 million americans will be able to get a shot in their arm by the end of the year? >> well, margaret, let's be clear, that's a goal. i think the gretzkys once said you fail to achieve 100% of the goals you don't set. it is not a pledge, but it

is a goal of what we're going to mobilize the entire u.s. government and private sector to achieve. these drug companies and vaccine-makers said it is going to make this amount of time because they're using their traditional approaches. you do phase 1, phase 2 and phase 3 in series, and then the manufacturing. and the president said that is not acceptable. we want to make the development side faster to get to safe and affective vaccines, and at the same time, we're going to scale up commercial-sized manufacturing and produce hundreds of millions of doses at risk. they may not prove effective, but we'll have it so we can begin an administration right away. >> brennan: you said hundreds of millions of doses, that is not the same thing as saying hundreds of musical millions of vaccines ready for the public. you said the entire american population could receive vaccines by

january. that's the goal. >> we have hundreds of millions of people, so 300 million is the goal. and by january, that we would set, whether by one or multiple vaccine candidates to be able to have. >> brennan: but is this -- >> let's look at having the vaccines developed,. >> brennan: absolutely. clearly you're going to have a lot of people wanting this vaccines. will it require booster shots? are you sure 200 million, 300 million doses are sufficient? >> those are great questions, margaret. that's part of the development programs that you study, do you use a single shot? do you have a multiple with a booster? what type of immune response do you get? that's why you don't go into battle with just one target here. we had 100 candidates originally, we've narrowed it to 14, and we're going to narrow it down to four, five, six that we really place the big financial bets behind and drive on. we might act ttings aee thenes, somed

data get generated here. >> brennan: president trump said on monday, we have prevailed. on that same day, may 11th, all 12 of the different models that the c.d.c. uses projected that there will be over 100,000 deaths by june 1st. how can the administration say we've prevailed when you see a death rate climbing like that? >> well, margaret, as you will remember, the president clarified that in response to a question that by "prevailed," he meant to testing, by building a novel diagnostic system here in the united states. he did not mean the disease burden, and he clarified that you could never speak of prevailing or success when there is even a single death.gi the disease burden here and across the world has been horrible. we've worked to minimize that. we believe that our actions to delay and flatten the curve saved

hundreds of thousands of lives that otherwise could have been lost. toeinrat's still nothi for the president or fr nnan: given thates are starting to reopen part of their economy, and there is a lag time of two or three weeks before you see the virus show up, how much of a sense do you have whether reopening is reinfecting the populous at large? >> these will be really important questions, margaret, for us to study through our comprehensive surveillance system. a critical part of reopening is influenza-like su surveillance as well as syndromeic testing, and that will be really helpful with this federal system and the approach the president is taking, having each state take localized decision, and it will give us really good

data -- >> brennan: we don't know the risk of reopening, but you'll be monitoring. >> we've seen george reopening and florida reopening -- it is still early days, but we think the tools are there. this gets set up as a health versus economy. and it is actually health versus health. we see reduction in cardiac procedures, cancer screenings, pediatric vaccinations -- there is a very real health consequence to these shutdowns that must be balanced against as we try to reopen this economy and move forward. >> brennan: absolutely.e-blowice on 60 minutes. he specifically names you in his complaint of having downplayed the catastrophic event. the last titl time you were with us on "face the nation" was march 1st,

and you said what americans need to know is the risk to average americans remains low. do you take responsibility for any missteps you have taken? >> i think if we played the entire clip -- i was using words that dr. fauci told me -- i believe what i said is "the risk to the average american at this time remains low, but that could change rapidly." i was always focused on learning that the situation would change. at the moment, the risk was low to any individual american. >> brennan: right. >> i stand by that in the sense that's what the public health people said. i go with what fauci and redfield and others say because they're the public health experts. >> brennan: but they report up to you. the c.d.c. has bting do you take responsibility for that? >> so we were confronting a situation here that is

completely novel. there has never been a national immediate testing regime across public and private sectors. we have had to literally build this from the ground up. that's what most folks don't quite understand here. the c.d.c.'s role is to develop an initial put through the public health test that public labs will do for initial diagnosis. but we depend on the private sector to scale them up. these tests normally take -- >> brennan: so you don't take responsibility for any problems that the c.d.c. has admitted to having had? >> what problems did the c.d.c. have? the c.d.c. had an issue as they scaled up manufacturing of tests to em ao contamination on the third part of the reagent that never led to false negatives or false positives. but it prevented some of the scale-up for a couple of weeks.

that was never going to be the backbone of broad testing in the united states. that depends on companies like abbott and roche. >> brennan: you're colleague has said that the c.d.c. let the country down. do you take responsibility for that? what do you think about that? >> i don't believe the c.d.c. let this country down. i believe the c.d.c. serves an important public health role, and what was always critical was to get the private sector to the table. >> brennan: thank you for your time. "face the nation" will be right back with speaker of the house nancy pelosi, stay with us. the kind of a crack that comes from the loss of a job; from life plans falling apart.

we didn't ask for it... but we are rising to meet it. and how far we've come isn't even close to how far wgo. we just have to remember how patient we were... how strong we can be. (how strong you can be.) and remember this; there's a crack in everything for a reason. how else can the light get in? ♪ tomorrow starts today. >> brennan: we go now to capitol hill and the speaker of the house, nancy pelosi. madam speaker, good morning to you. >> good morning. >> brennan: i want to talk about this $3trillion package you just passed, but i want to get your reaction to one white house advisor saying that the c.d.c. let the american people down with

testing. you heard the health and human services secretary saying he does not believe that is the case. what do you think happened here? did the c.d.c. let the american people down? >> the c.d.c. was grossly cut in the president's budget. but setting aside how we got here, let's talk about how we go forward. it is important for us -- the american people want the economy to open up. we all do. we want our society to open up. we all do. in order to do that, we have testing, tracing, treatment, and isolation. and that is the path. that's what the scientists advice. that is what we do in the hero's act. we talk about how we can get there with a plan. we haven't had a plan. let's go forward in a bipartisan way to have a plan, a plan to test. we have no idea of the size of this challenge to our country because we have not sufficiently tested. let's test so we can diagnose and we can treat

and decrease the number of people who have died. 90,000 -- almost 90,000 americans have lost their lives to this awful villain. we, whatever our differences are, have to join together to fight this enemy for the livelihood hood of the american people. 90,000 people -- we send our condolences and our prayers to their families. we will always carry them in our hearts. sadly, the number is projected to even grow. and nearly a million and a half people infected. so we have a common enemy. and as we go forward, let's do so with a strategic plan, a plan that has a timetable, it has a goal -- a timetable, benchmarks and the rest to get the job done for the american people. >> brennan: i want to ask about your plan. because you mentioned the hero's act is a $3

trillion bill you just passed. the americans are saying the unemployment benefits that exist now don't expire until july, and let's see what reopening looks like and what a new package should be tailored to. why do you think there is no merit to that argument, that a few more weeks before crafting a bill could be more affective? >> no. time is of the essence. in the past bills, they put forth their proposal, and then we worked in a bipartisan way that we anticipate. now, across the country, republican and democratic mayors and governors and the rest, all want this bill to happen in terms of the investments in state and local and tribal and territoria g eo tary ortant. we have lost time. again, setting aside how we got here, we cannot take a pause. they may think it is okay

to take a pause, but people are hungry across america. hunger doesn't take a pause. people don't know how they're going to pay their rent across the country. we have to address this with humanity. >> brennan: has there been any republican response, any counteroffer, or opening to begin negotiations since you passed this bill that the white house says has no chance of becoming law. >> that isn't so. no bill that is proffered will become law without negotiations, so, yeah. again, we had four bills, all bipartisan. the bill that leader mcconnell put forward, the cares one, was his offer. nobody said it doesn't have a chance because he just put it forth. the interim p.p.p. bill is his -- >> brennan: has he reached out to you? >> we just passed the bill a matter of hours ago. i do have confidence

because the governors and mayors, as i said, in a bipartisan way know we have to support our local government. that's where we have health care workers, fire and first responders, our teachers and sanitation workers -- they're at risk of losing th js. many of these people risked their lives to save lives and now they may lose their jobs. by the way, i think it is important to note that everything -- sounds like a big number, but everything that we have in the state and local column there is less than the republicans put in their tax scam to give 83% of the benefits to the top 1%. >> brennan: the republicans say it is their red line -- to get what you want, what will you give on that? >> we had no red lines. but the best protection for our workers and their employers is to follow very good osha mandatory guidelines, and we have that in our bill.

that protects the workers, protects their lives, as well as protects the employer if they follow the guidelines. remember, when people go to work, they go home. they could bring it home to their children, or they could bring it home to a senior living in theird just the individual at work. >> brennan: madam speaker, late friday president trump sent you a letter, saying that he was going to remove the inspector general of the state department, steve linick. this is the fourth i.g. to be removed in six weeks. why was linick removed? what is behind this? >> well, this is new to us, and typical of the white house, announcing something that is very unsavory, and they would do it late on a friday night. the fact is, as you indicated, it is the fourth inspector general. inspectors general, that office was created after watergate to make sure there was integrity in the departments, the agencies

of government. they are supposed to show cause. even republicans in congress are concerned "unsavory," is that what you mean? >> unsavory, when you take out someone who is there to stop waste, fraud, abuse or other violations of the law that are -- that they believe to be happening. again, let's take a look and see. the president has the right to fire any federal employee. but the fact is, if it looks like it is in retaliation for something that the i.g., the inspector general, is doing, that could be unlawful. >> brennan: was he investigating the secretary of state, as elliot angel has said? >> i have trusted the word of my chairman, again -- we just passed a big bill, and i only got this letter from the president that night. but he didn't say in his letter any reason, except that he lost confidence.

he has lost confidence in other i.g.s because they have been investigating, or have reason to believe that something should be investigated, that he is doing. i really do think that presidents should not have the ability to undo investigations into their own actions. >> brennan: madam speaker, thank you very much for joining us today. we have to leave it there. >> my pleasure. thank you so much. >> brennan: we'll be >> brennan: we'll be right back. ottom while also restocking our products. but if anything, these days have reminded us why we do what we do. one thing hasn't, and that's our devotion to you and our communities. we're working together, in-store and online,

through pickup and delivery, to make sure you can still get the essentials you need. and as we move forward, know that our first priority will always be to keep you and our associates safe. ♪ and wells fargo employees are assisting millions of customers never before will always be to keep you and our associates safe. across america through fee waivers and payment deferrals, helping people stay in their homes through mortgage payment relief efforts and donating $175 million dollars to help hundreds of local organizations provide food and other critical needs... when you need us, wells fargo is here to help.

>> brennan: ahead, a preview of 60 minutes interview with the chairman of the federal reserve. we'll be right back.

>> brennan: we'll be back with former white house advisor gary cohn, and former f.d.a. commissioner dr. scott gottlieb.

♪ >> brennan: (words are welcome k to "face the nation." last week another three million americans filed for unemployment. retail sales and factory outlets reported economic decline. tonight on 60 minutes, scott pelley talks to the most powerful man in the finance world, federal e airman jrome powell. >> i would take a more optimistic cut at that, if i could. and that is, this is a time of great suffering and difficulty, and it has come on us so quickly and with such force that you really can't put into words the pain people are feeling and the

uncertainty they're realizing. and it's going to take a while for us to get back. i would just say this: in the long run, and even in the medium run, you wouldn't want to bet against the american economy. this economy will recile. it may take a period of time. it could stretch through the end of next year. we really don't know. can there be a recovery without a reasonably affective vaccine? >> assuming there is not a second wave of the coronavirus, i think you'll see the economy recover steadily through the second half of this year. >> for the economy to fully recover, people will have to be fully confident. that may have to wait the arrival of a vaccine. fedrennan: the full chairman airs tonight on 60 minutes. weigwe go now to gary cohn, who joins us from long island, new york. good morning. >> good morning, margaret. >> brennan: you just heard the federal reserve

chairman say no full recovery until there is a vaccine. is the logical extension of that, that there will be widespread unemployment well into next year? >> so, first of all, i thought chairman powell did a very good job of summarizing the economic situation with some optimism. saying, look, if we don't get a second outbreak in the fall -- which is just predicted, we don't know if that will happen or not -- wo grow our economy, and our economy will continue to have a natural recovery. he was quite optimistic, and i am quite optimistic. the u.s. economy is quite resilient. i have to remind people that we ended up in this economic situation by necessity. we made a conscious decision to flatten the curve by having everyone stay home. we created this economic situation, and we can

unwind this much more quickly than some of the comparisons we're making in time, where there were situations, where our unemployment data happened over a long period of time because of declining employment and declining sales. >> brennan: right. but the counter to that is there are people in immediate and severe pain now. 60now 40% of people making under $40,000 a year lost their jobs. we're hearing about food insecurity. and you heard the speaker of the house saying time is of the essence. do you agree with her that more emergency aid needs to happen now, or can you wait, as republicans want to do? >> i think i agree with 50% of what the speaker was saying. so part of the hero's act was to get money -- or is to get money to the state and local governments. i think that is very important. the state and local governments have been hard hit. the last thing we want to see is state and local

governments, in our time of need, having to layoff firemen, policemen, teachers, first responders, frontline people that we're relying on four ou for our everyday lif. so the government has to step in and help. just like they helped small businesses and big businesses, they should help the states. that doesn't mean they should return the states to perfect financial conditions. in the other half of the bill -- and you didn't ask me about that -- there are some things in there that are much more aimed at a recovery than the current position we're in. in addition to that, if we really want to get the people back to work, that chairman powell was talking about, we need to reopen the economy. those people earning less than $40,000 a year are very important, and we rely on them. but think about the health care system. the health care system is 20% of our g.d.p. if we get our health care system back up and running, a lot of people

in the lower wage bracket end up working in the health care system. we need that to happen. think of what it means to go back to work, you get in your car -- >> brennan: sure. but it is neither or. part of what congress will be doing is figuring that out policy-wise. the administration is thinking of a payroll cut, suspendinsuspending capital gais between the end of the year and now -- how does that help people now? >> are we responding to the crisis or are we trying to stimulate an economy? this is a very difficult situation because the federal government sits on top and then each state is going to decide what we're doing. if we're trying to respond to the crisis, we're right. this is where i agree with the speaker, we have to get the states money to help them respond to the crisis. if we're trying to stimulate economic growth, which would be the second half of the equation, we

would use a different set of tools to stimulate economic growth. we have a huge toolbox of tools we can use to stimulate economic growth. >> brennan: but those specific proposals, payroll tax cuts, lower the corporate interest rates, does that do any of what you're talking about? >> payroll tax cuts puts money in the people of people who are working. payroll tax cuts doesn't help the unemployed person. so i'm not in favor -- >> brennan: but are you also saying more direct aid to people? because one of the questions around extending unemployment benefitss people sometimes making o unthar ere i think you just hit on a very important concept. when we first hit on the

enhanced unemployment benefits, we did it for a specific person. we needed people to get out of the economy. we needed them to stay home. we changed the definition of unemployment. we said, stay home. don't look for a jofnlt we don't wana job.we don't want yoe your house. now we have to go to the traditional sense of unemployment. if you need to be looking for a job and if you get offered a job, you should have to take that job and you should come off of unemployment benefits. we need to transition out of the extraordinary measures that we justifiable 60 days ago, 90 days ago, into the real world of what is t ntinuoefinition of unemployment. >> brennan: two things: do you think equity markets are behaving rationally? and are you accepting the idea that the tax cuts that you personally helped usher through for the trump administration may have to disappear as so many on wall street are predicting, to pay for all

of this? >> first of all, i have said it and i'll say it again: we now understand that we have to be in the position, as a federal government, to spend $2 trillion to $5 trillion as a moment's notice to support our infrastructure and our economy. that said, we need to sit down and look at the revenue side of the equation, and we need to look at the expense side of the equation. everything should be on the table. remember, the expense side of the equation, everything should be on the table as well. as far as the stock market goes -- >> brennan: so your teau cutaxcut would likely have to go away? >> i think everything is on the table. remember, margaret, i think the tax cuts are completely misconstrued. we gave big tax breaks to lower income earners. in the heros bill, you'll see they're trying to roll back the salt deduction.

that was a way we taxed most of the higher easterners. eastern earners. they're the ones who own the big homes and pay the big state income taxes, and they're using that deduction. rolling that deduction back does not make sense right now when the federal government needs money in this environment. on the stock market -- look, the stock market is very forward looking. i think the stock market, like chairman powell, is fairly optimistic of where we're going to get to, and there is a path forward. >> brennan: okay. >> and i will remind people, also, it is made up of the largest companies in america. a lot of those countries compans have become more essential in our lives today. if there was anexes of small local businesses, i think that indexes would think that indexes would be trading at the press value. >> brennan: gary cohn, thank you for joining us. we have to leave it there. we'll be right back.

♪ ♪ ♪ >> brennan: we're back with former f.d.a. commissioner scott gottlieb, who joins us

from west connecticut. good morning. >> doctor: good morning. >> brennan: you heard secretary azar say 300 million doses of a vaccine by january. is that realistic? >> doctor: well, first we have to remember that the doses probably -- we have to cut it in half because many of these vaccines, you're going to probably need to doses of the vaccines. so whatever supply we have is probably sufficient to actually dose and inoculate about half the number of people. i think our expectations should be we'll have (mumblingmillions of vaccines available in the fall, and maybe multiple manufacturers if they make it through phase one or facphase two trials. another thing to consider is these vaccines may not be completely protective. they may prevent you from getting covid, the disease, and severe pneumonia, but you may

still be able to get and transmit the infection, but you may not get as sick. so what you might do in that situation, if we do have an epidemic, is use the vaccines on people who are in high risk of a bad outcome, like people in a nursing home. but our basic assumption is we'll will have millions of vaccines if multiple manufacturers are successful. >> brennan: millions of people are going to want this overnight, but what you're saying is that is not happening by january, period. >> doctor: it takes a while to manufacture a vaccine. and then you have to do stability testing. you don't just manufacture a vaccine and roll it off the line and then send it out into the public to have people in noc waited with it. you make sure the vaccine is appropriate for use. in 2009, with h1n1, we had the vaccine constructed, and it worked well in the

laboratory and small-scale studies. and then we found we weren't getting good yield with it, and we lost about two months in that process for trying to make that vaccine in time for the fall. there are a lot of uncertainties as you go from vaccines you're manufacturing on a smaller scale, in an experimental fashion in early-stage studies, when you try to scale up and get volume. a lot of things can go wrong. a lot of things can get delayed. i would say it is more likely a 2021 event, that we'll have the vaccine available in sufficient quantities to mass ioculate the population. there may be 200 million people who want this vaccine, and it may take 400 million doses. so it is probably a 2021 event. i think we'll have the vaccine available in the fall for use to prevent an outbreak in a large city or no inoculate a certain portion of the population at an experimental basis. >> brennan: we're learning more about this virus, including the

potential risk to children. what would you tell parents who are concerned about these reports out of italy, the u.k., and now the u.s., that young children are being affected? >> doctor: the reports are deeply concerning. there appears to be some kind of post-viral symptom associated with this virus. the c.d.c. has stepped forward and said they have associated it with this virus, but it is not definitive. it appears to a post-viral immune-type phenomena. what we don't know is the denominator. is it hundreds of thousands or millions of children who have had the virus, and we're seeing maybe 100 or 200 of these cases? or,y[ only a thousand kids have the virus and we're seeing a hundred cases. the new york city doctors and health officials were the first to report on the cluster here in the united states. they have reported now on more than 100 of these cases and three tragic

deaths. but we don't know the denominator of how many kids are getting infected. there was a study in science magazine about three weeks ago, and it said children are a third as likely to get the coronavirus than adults. that means that kids are getting infected, but probably at a much lower rate thunder th than the adults. it means a lot of kids might have had it as well. >> brennan: the c.d.c. did put out some guidance out this week, saying call your pediatrician if you're kids have any of the rashes like we just showed you on the screen. on the issue of the c.d.c., you said before on this program the c.d.c. needs to be sharing more information than they are in terms of what doctors are seeing and learning. there needs to be more specific guidelines for businesses and schools. you heard a hite advisor say that c.d.c. failed the country on testing this morning. alex azar disagreed with that, the health and human services secretary. how do you assess what is happening at the c.d.c.

right now? >> i disagree with that settlemenassessment about the dg netidiagnostic testing. what needed to happen was someone needed to pick up the phone and call the c.e.o.s of lab cor and quest, sometime in january -- >> brennan: who would that person have been? the health and human services secretary tor the f.d.a. commissioner? >> it would have been one of those two. if they asked the c.e.o.s to do that, i'm willing to bet they would have done it and you would have gotten the big labs in the game. i think the part of the agency where i think there could be more information is trying to catalog the collective data. we've had tens of millions of people infected, 90,000 deaths, and we haven't seen a really definitive, systematic accounting of the patients and their

outcomes and what interventions was used on them. this is what the c.d.c. does. we're learning a lot of this by word of mouth with physicians, even on twitter, that people have coagu opothies. and we're learning many patients are getting blood clots to their lungs. and now we're learning a lot about this pediatric syndrome. the guidelines are a separate matter. the more the c.d.c. puts out more details guidelines, the better more businesses can start. >> brennan: all of us want more facts. thank you, dr. gottlieb. we appreciate it. we'll be righwe'll be back in a.

>> brennan: among the many disturbing pice've become accustomed to seeing since the pandemic started are those of people seeking e lines at food banks have been shocking. the numbers are, too. in april, more than one in five u.s. households reported not having sufficient resources to buy food. that number increased to two in five households,

41% for mothers with children 12 and under. we go now to dallas, and claire babineaux-fontenot, she is the c.e.o. of feeding america, the nation's largest hungry relief organization. good morning to you. >> good morning. >> brennan: we've heard the statistics in terms of who is most vulnerable an how hard they are getting hit. we also know that food prices had their biggest spike in decades just last month. it seems like the perfect storm. what are you seeing at your facilities right now? who is coming, and what do they need? >> well, margaret, i think you used the rig it is, in fact, "the perfect storm isis we're." we're seeing a marked increase in demand to the tune of 60% more people showing up in need of our services. and at the time that we're having that increase in demand, we have a decrease in donatrease in

costs of food and a decrease of volunteers. so it is, in fact, a perfect storm. so many of the people -- i'm sorry. >> brennan: yes, please. so how are you managing that? is the person that you're serving nows, as challenging as it is, different from what you saw a few months ago? is it a different demographic? >> that's exactly what i was going to say. 40% on average of the people we are seeing now have never relied on the charitable food system before now. we're definitely seeingsoany ofo are there are familiar to us. some of the people who were donors are now inbe change, to be sure. but one of the things i think the american public simply wasn't aware of, was that even before this pandemic, there were nearly 40 million people who were food insecure, and over 11onill 11 million of them were children.

this pandemic has just heightened that challenge. >> brennan: i know things like diapers aren't covered by food stamps. are items like that what you need at your facilities? what are you looking for to serve, in particular, those children? >> well, we need a whole host of things. first and foremost, we need food. so what we have done is we've had a remarkable outpouring of support from across the country in terms of dollars, so that we can purchase food. and we've also ha se assistan fro congnd someeleio ha ready aso administration in the form of deregulations, so we're able to provide that food in a new way. but there continues to be a need. i don't know that i mentioned that so far the members of our network, just since march, have

provided over a billion meals to people facing hunger. but our estimates are that over the course of the next 12 months, that the need, just inside of our system, is over eight billion. so big need across all of those i indices that you just described. >> brennan: i know you just told us about the pain you're seeing particularly with kids, 41% of mothers with kids ages 12 or under report food insecurity. i read that you need food and items fro manufaurers, not necessarily from individuals. >> right. >> brennan: explain what has changed. what do you mean by that? >> well, i don't know that i would limit it just to manufacturers. so maybe the best thing for me to do is to starter frostartfrom the top and say wht are the hi hierarchy of things we need.

you mentioned snap -- >> brennan: food stamps. >> yes, formally known as food stamps. thank you for that. for every one meal we're able to provide in the charitable food system, snap can provide nine. and one of the interesting things about snap is, not only is it good for people right now in the middle of a pandemic and an emergency, it is also good for the economy. we have data that shows for every dollar invested in snap, the return is $1.70. so there are lots of reasfor us to be thinking about and urging our members of congress to pass additional legislation so we can increase access to snap, and we can increase the thresholds in terms of how much people can receive from snap. that is first and foremost. secondly, as i mentioned before -- by the way, may just acknowled thenity to remarkable people in this network, and in other non-profits as well, who are really stepping up to this challenge and

providing these services to people when they need it. but the gap hasn't closed. we've done -- we did some analysis that showed over a six month window, and our analysis shows in our network alone, the gap is -- >> brennan: so this three billion, in terms of taking food from farmers and taking it to the people, is not the issue? >> well, it is helping. and we're going to do everything in our power to make that program successful, because an additional $3 billion in food would certainly be helpful. but the gap still won't be closed, even with thatefrt. encf the congress and the administration and people all across the country is, let's just keep trying to help and we can close this gap together. >> brennan: we agree with you. thank you so much. we'll be right back. how do we stuff reese's peanut butter, pretzels,

caramel, peanuts, and chocolate into reese's take5?

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