captioning sponsored by cbs >> i'm john dickerson, this week on "face the nation," a record number of new coronavirus cases explodes in the u.s. over 45,000 in a single day, marking the biggest jump since the pandemic started. while governors in multiple states hit pause on reopening, and the white house downplays the dangerous spread. for the first time in two months, the coronavirus task force reappeared on friday as the virus spiked in the south and west. the nation's top disease expe wasmr. doceng a serious problem in certain areas. >> the vice president was more optimistic. >> vice president pence: we have made truly remarkable progress. >> our guests this

morning, vice-president pence in an exclusive interview before he visits three states struggling to rein in the virus, texas, arizona, and florida. >> did the reopening happen too early? >> vice president pence: i notice the temptation to associate the new cases in the sunbelt with the reopening. >> we'll ask him about the president's confusing messages on testing. [inaudible] >> president trump: i don't kid. let me just tell you. sometimes i jokingly say or sarcastically say, if we didn't do tests, we'd look great. >> and then we'll turn to washington state governor jay inslee, where cases are on the rise. to help us understand all of it, former head of the f.d.a., scott gottlieb. and after weeks of protests and demands for change, congress tries to act. >> the bill is passed. >> we'll get the action from south carolina

senator tim scott, and president of the naacp fund, cheryl eiffel. it's all ahead on "face the nation." ♪ >> good morning, and welcome to "face the nation." margaret brennan is off. we begin today with the coronavirus, that is continuing to cause more uncertainty in the u.s. new cases are increasing in 29 states. 17 report record seven-day averages. in response, to governors in 15 states have paused or reversed plans to row open. to date the virus has killed over 125,000 people across the country, and there are more than 2.5 million confirmed cases in the u.s. our coverage beginth morning with mark straussman reporting from atlanta. >> reporter: covid has exploded, america reopened

and relaxed, and infection resurged. there is a red alert on summer weeks ahead. in florida, last call for alcohol was at noon friday. e smshed its covid record, more than 9500 infections in a single day. on friday, miami announced it is closing the beaches before the busy july 4th weekend. >> there was widespread non-conon-compliance and that led to issues. >> reporter: positivity rates also demanded it. testing shows more than one in 10 texans has been infected. >> if i could go back and redo anything, it probably would have been to slow down the opening of bars. >> reporter: harris county, in the houston area, considers its covid threat severe. it advised residents to stay home because hospitals are approaching capacity. >> it begs for aggressive and sustained action.

>> reporter: arizona acted. its governor also told people to stay home and wear face masks. getting people to wear masks literally has been a fight. this tea shop in washington state throws out costumers who wear one. in kansas city, mandatory face masks goes into affect tomorrow. it joined 17 states and the district of columbia with mask requirements. every state recommends wearing one indoors. it is another sign that no one knows where this virus will erupt left. >> reporter: this is the headquarters of the c.d.c. the number of covid cases has been dramatically undercounted. for every america with a confirmed case, 10 more have had it. that means 20 million americans have had the virus, john, and everyone else remains vulnerable. nowo

our conversation with vice president mike pence. we spoke with him saturday about the spike in new cases. mr. vice president, some of the states that are having the biggest spikes are the big ones, texas, california, arizona. are you concerned? >> vice president pence: well, we're monitoring very closely new cases in florida, texas, arizona, and california. in fact, i'll be traveling with members of our team to several of those states over the next several days, to make sure and get a ground report. what the american people should know is that because of the leadership that president trump has provided, because of the extraordinary innovation this task, we are in ao much better place to respond to these outbreaks than we were four months ago. i mean, today we are now testing 500,000 americans a day. we're able to do a great deal more surveillance in

community testing than ever before. we've also expanded our health care capacity across the country, literally seeing delivered billions in personal protective equipment, ventilators, and most importantly in this moment, we've seen the development of distribution of therapeutics that literally have been saving lives around the country. and we believe at the end of this year it is likely we'll have a vaccine. >> john: so you say the country is in a better place in this moment. but the experts say we shouldn't be in this moment we're in. dr. anthony fauci says there is a concerning surge of infections. governor abbott says there is a massive outbreak. in the wall street journal you said 20,000 cases is a good number. this week there have been 40,000 cases. your level of concern -- i understand you're saying what has been done seems

insufficient to governors and experts? >> vice president pence: no. let me be very clear. we're focused, our entire team is focused, on working with governors to make sure we meet this moment and support the efforts at state levels -- >> john: why did we get here at all? >> vice president pence: -- to provide the kind of steps that will mitigate these new cases. there is another way, john, that this is different from early on. and that is that one of the things that we've heard in texas and florida in particular, is that nearly half of those who are testing positive are americans under the age of 35. that is contributing to the fact that those that are requiring to be hospitalized, who are testing positive for coronavirus, is significantly lower than it was two months ago. and so we really believe that what is happening here is a combination of increased testing, we're able to test a great deal more americans than we

were able to several months ago, but it also may be an indication that as we are opening our economy up, that younger americans have been congregating in ways that may have disregarded the guidance that we gave on the federal level for all the phases of reopening. and i think that's why you see several governors taking action to essentially try and prevent further increases in those new cases. >> john: the spiked states are also states that are reopening early, and administration's trying to allow the economy to get it reopened. the states that are reopening are having some of the biggest problems. did the reopening happen too early? >> vice president pence: well, all 50 states are opening up again, to one degree or another. and i know there is a temptation to associate the new cases in the

sunbelt with reopening, but it is important to remember that states like florida and like texas actually began to open up in early may. for the better part of six weeks, john, we did not see any significant movements. in my conversations with governors in florida and in texas and in arizona, and in particular we're monitoring very closely their hospitalization rate, and we continue to be very confident they have the supplies and the support and the capacity to give people the level of care that any of us would want a family member to have. >> john: you're talking about being able to monitor the situation. the argument is that the situation shouldn't be existing in the first place. europe waited longer to reopen, and they have seen less trouble in reopening. in florida, since memorial day, cases are up 165%. there are almost 10,000 cases in a single day in florida. something happened, and it is not just a question of

monitoring. te experts are saying these states walked into a problem with their eyes wide open because they opened too early. and that's a mistake which seems to repeat the original mistake, which was to down play and not take seriously the nature of the threat. >> vice president pence: well, i beg to differ about the reopening. and i beg to differ about down playing. on the second point, president trump suspended all travel from china before the first case of community transmission occurred in the united states. >> john: there were nine cases when he did that -- >> vice president pence: no. there were cases in the united states of people who had returned to this country. but the first case of community transmission would occur weeks later. he stood up the white house coronavirus task force. everything i've described about an unprecedented scaling of testing, the development of billions of

medical supplies, ventilators, the development of therapeutic medicines like remdesivir and others, the launch of a vaccine development, but as we have arrived at this moment, it is clear across the sunbelt that there is something happening particularly among younger americans, and that's why we fully percent governor abbott's decision to close bars, and in florida and elsewhere, and we'll continue to support those efforts. >> john: why not ask people to wear maskings? >> vice president pence: we believe people should wear masks whenever social distancing is not possible, wherever it is indicated by state or local authorities. the president has worn a mask. i wore a mask on several occasions this week. jn: gnoabbt in texas has said the

pre-condition for opening the economy is wearing a mask. wearing a mask, he says, will keep the economy open. you and the president care a lot about keeping the economy open. the message on masks has been modeled. why doesn't the president, who has some persuasion in the country, come forward and say everybody in america should wear a mask. why has he been kind of muddling that message? >> vice president pence: first of all, we believe that every state has a unique situation. i want to be clear, while we're monitoring about 16 states that are seeing outbreaks, it represents about 4% of all of the counties in this country. 34 states are not seeing a rise in positivity. and they have different measures, different requirements and different guidance in place. one of the elements of the genius of america is the principle of federalism, of state and local control. we've made it clear that we want to defer to governors, we want to defer to local officials,

and people should listen to them. >> john: mr. vice president, the virus doesn't know federalism. this is a problem that requires a coordinated national result, which is what these outbreaks are showing. so to say they should deal with them individually seems to miss the big fact, which is the virus can go wherever it wants. >> vice president pence: john, if we had taken that approach, we would is never had the success in the greater new york city area or in michigan or new orleans. because early on we worked closely in partnership with governors to make sure they had what they need when they needed it, tailored to the unique circumstances in their state. and when you look at the extraordinary progress that wekanin cicut and in new jersey and new orleans and in michigan, and early on in states like washington state, where we flattened the curve, we slowed the spread.

and we did it at a time early in this pandemic, where we can just scaling testing up. >> john: you mentioned testing, to get the economy opening again, testing has to happen. the president said, if we didn't do testing, we'd have no cases. that's wrong and misleading. given how important testing is, why is the president saying things that are wrong and misleading about testing? >> vice president pence: inarguable that the history testing in this country has played a role in the new cases particularly among younger americans. john, i want to remind your viewers that two months ago, in most states in this country, we were not testing people that had no symptoms or who were below a certain age. we were focusing on seniors and those with symptoms. but now because of the public-private partner that president trump

initiated, we are literally able to test anyone in the country who wants a test, who comes forward -- >> john: mr. vice president, 125,000 americans have died, and we're six months into this, and testing is crucial to get the economy open. and the president of the united states with the biggest mega phone on the planet is saying something that is wrong and misleading. is that the standard that we want for the president of the united states? >> vice president pence: john, the president was observing the fact that rising cases, which the media has focused -- >> john: why is that vital to getting this problem solved? >> vice president pence: -- has been in part as a result of increased testing. what the media doesn't focus on at all is because of the sacrifices that the american people made in those 45 days to slow the spread, and the good common-sense measures they continue to do,ve fatalities decline. i grievr every

american family that lost a loved one, for the more than 125,00,000 americans that we've lost in this. we're going to continue to take steps to protect the most vulnerable. and testing will be a critical part of that going forward. >> john: by mr. vice president, testing is critical to protect and open the economy. in a public health crisis, information and confidence in that information is crucial, as you know so well. so why does the person with the best mega phone say things to undermine testing. it seems totally at odds with what you're spending-uspendingall of your d. this is a crucial point about testing. >> vice president pence: john, i disagree with the fact that the president is undermining confidence in testing. he observed that the volume of new cases is, in part, a result of the rapid scaling of testing that we've done around the

country. >> john: shortly after our interview with the vice president, we learned that he canceled upcoming campaign events in arizona and florida out of what the trump campaign calls an abundance of caution. we'll have more with the vice president in our second half hour, and we'll be right back with washington governor jay inslee. inslee. stay with us. social distancing in stores. 'vshorr hours, so we can sanitize our stores from top to bottom while also restocking our products. but if anything, these days have reminded us why we do what we do. because despite everything that's changed, one thing hasn't, and that's our devotion to you and our communities. through pick andery, an sti the esselsou need. and that's our devotion to you and our communities.

ane move forward, know that our first priority will always be to keep you and our associates safe. ♪ vine. >> john>> john: yesterday jayinn reopening, citing the state's rising cases. he joins us now. >> governor: good morning. thank you for having me. >> john: tell us about the state increases that your state health official said in certain counties the situation is what is happening in king county. what is going on? >> gov w w have a fire in many places across the united states, including a few of the counties in my state, where the situation is so

dire that people are gasping for breath and having to be transported by ambulance over a mountain range over 100 miles to be treated. and so when i heard the vice president talk about how things are just hunky dorey, it is just maddening. the situation is critical in many places across the united states, and all of the happy thoughts and wishful thinking in the world is not going to wash that away. so we're taking very strong measures to get people to mask up. we know that's a solution from the health standpoint and the way to reopen our economy. >> john: is that why you're seeing the increase in cases, because people ar gernor: in some places, not as much as we should. that's why we put an order in effect, including businesses' obligation in this regard, and we sure could use the leadership from the president. it is so difficult from day one, he has downplayed and distorted and disabled

our ability to fight this war. because information is like the aircraft carriers in world war ii, it is how we fight this virus. so right now we're in an urgent national mission, or should be, to mask up. and the fact is that donald trump is for masking up like george wallace was for integration. and we governors are urging people now to use this affective technique. 100% masking means 100% opening up, and all of us should be on that bandwagon right now. >> john: on this masking question -- it is not just the president who has been luke warm about it. yove hd sistance from your own sheriffs in your own state. the vice president talks about federalism. isn't it much more likelyut masking is going to be listened to if it comes within the community, from you ar or a mayor, than if it comes from a president across the country. people just don't want to

uall masks? if they get a message from the president, it is amazing if they do. here is the situation we've had to deal with, to some degree, the republican and democratic governors alike: we have sort of a bipartisan consensus here, people are pulling together. the moment donald trump tweeted he wanted to liberate michigan from the health messages of governor whitmer, the mo ht,lf the people wearing mega hats decided they don't want to help out as much. that has been very, very damaging. we need a president who is fully committed toah. instead of tweeting the other day about the importance of masks, he tweeted about monuments. we need a president who will care more about living americans and less about dead confederates.

this has an enormous impact. if we can get everybody wearing a mega hat wear a mask, we are going to contain this mask. i want to reiterate that this is the way to reopen our economy. if we get people to mask up and we can reopen our economies, that will be a good day for evry >> john: tell me about the agricultural sector, governor, and that seems to be essential workers. this isn't about going to a bar; this is about feeding the country. and wasn't that problem foreseeable? >> governor: we've got to have an agricultural industry because we need weeople toeye donthat.estes. and they have learned we have had more successful protocols reduced during the transmission. you can understand why they're higher levels of transmission, where people are working closely together, but we put into place some really good

protocols. although we need to continue to increase testing in these facilities, and that's why from day o president said that this was just going to go away monday, and we had adequate testing, that also disabled some of our efforts. but right now it is not just the agricultural industry, and i think that is important to say. we have very widespread community transmission in some of our counties. and this poin t toon tis ropd we could use some national leadership in that regard. >> john: this week you put some guidance out for reopening college instruction. given the spike you've seen, do you still think colleges are going to be able to open in your state? >> governor: i think there is a likelihood ofepls toy that is smart. that means you maximize your facility for social distancing, and it means

everybody wears a mask, which has been shown to be affective. it means sometimes we have cohorts, so small groups stay together and don't mix with larger groups, and we have adequate testing to be able to reduce any transmission. i think there is a reasonable probability that we will have very broad-scale, on-campus activity. but, again, this virus is a wild beast. and the one thing we have to fight it right now is good information and good inspiration. >> john: governor -- i'm sorry, governor, we're going to have to end our interview now. thank you so much for being with us. >> governor: stay safe. >> john: and we'll be right back. imagine if we ever got to meet.

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♪ >> john: welcome back to "face the nation." we want to go now to someone who has become a weekly guest on this broadcast. former f.d.a. commission dr. scott gottlieb, in westport connecticut. good morning. >> doctor: good morning. >> john: i want to start with just your basic assessment. what is happening right now with this pandemic? >> doctor: well, these are major epidemics under way in the south and southeast right now. you look at texas, with almost 6,000 cases, california, almost 6,000 cases. georgia is getting hot with 2,000 cases. florida with 10,000 cases, and texas with about 5500 people hospitalized. this is community spread

that has been under way for some time. it will be hard to extinguish. we'll have many weeks ahead of us of tses even ifressive actions right now, which across the board we're not doing. a lot of the discussion is are coming down, but that is not likely to stay that way. we're likely to see tot daily deaths start to go back up again. >> john: so your point is, this can't be changed or turned off with a switch that while we're seeing big numbers, we should expect them for a while and more bad news? >> doctor: well, look at new york. new york implemented the stay-at-home order on march 20th, a friday, and it went into affect on beae. so almost three weeks after they implemented the stay-at-home order the cases rose, and then they

started to decline. the action is much weaker than a stay-at-home order, so even if it has an impact, it will be a marginal impact. i think these states have some difficult weeks ahead. you look at states like florida, which might be the worst shape, and it looks like they may be tipping over into expedential growth. they'll so props rapid acceleration. i think over the nextek, 're gow just how persuasive the spread is, but it looks pretty widespread. >> john: in your judgment, was the rush to reopen too spread? >> doctor: well, it was only going to go in one direction, there was already enough infection around to continue with epidemics. and the other thing was the speed of the opin somese sae it was ha ofening r auf timeo si

they should have taken two weeks' pauses in bethy marylandw jersey, and michigan d-and, so they could measure the impact of their actions. >> john: what do you make about the european choice or decision not to allow u.s. travelers because the outbreak has not been sufficiently contained in america? >> doctor: i think there was some inevitable of that. we still have a lot of spread across the country. the c.d.c. said about one in 10 cases are being diagnosed, i think it is probably a little better than that. but you look at the 40,000 infections, and it probably represents a quarter of a million infection on a daily basis. so for countries that really crushed their epdemics, i think there was i inevidentability that we limit travelers from

our country. i think states that have crushed their epidemic are going to start to put up more stringent restrictions on travel. you saw the beginning of that with new jersey and new york coming together. and there is a lot more people can do, including screening people fr country. >> john: you mentioned you don't think closing bars and some of the limited pause measures that some of the states have reopened that have been put in place now that we're seeing these spikes -- what could be affective that could be implemented? >> doctor: the easiest thing we can do is universal mandating. man maskin. we are saying they have to wear seat belts, and we're not saying they have to wear masks. if a large portion of the population wore masks, it could translate to get the

"r," if you will, below one. it is the simplest thing we can take that has an impact on the spread. >> john: in terms of getting people to wear masks, what are we learned or not learned about the way in which we all do, orry toe spread and beat back thi dtor: . we have a hard six months ahead of us. we're going to get through this. this is a brief moment in our history. we need to focus on preserving life and maintaining things that are most important to us: keeping our businesses open, sending our children bacback to school in the fall, protecting the vulnerable. we need to collectively come together to limit spread. and if means reducing some of our daily interaction and wearing masks. after about six months, we'll get to a vaccine or a therapeutic to help us. but it is a an early 2021

event, so we need to get through 2020. i think we need to think about what we can do, wearing a mask when you go out. there are a lot of things we do that are inconveniences, but we do it to protect ourselves and our fellow citizens. >> john: all right. dr. scott gottlieb, thank you for being with us. you for being with us. and we'll be right back. c's changed, you for being with us. and we'll be right back. one thing hasn't, and that's our devotion to you and our communities. we're working together, in-store and online, through pickup and delivery, to make sure you can still get the essentials you need.

and as we move forward, know that our first priority will always be to keep you and our associates safe. ♪ will always be to keep you andcome on in, we're open. ♪ all we do is hand you the bag. simple. done. ♪ this smells so good. ♪ big thanks to you guys at home. we're here right now. ♪ we adapt and we change. i mean you just figure it out and we'll do like we do as safely as we can.

i got a new job. ♪ we've just been finding a way to keep on pushing. we're lookin' for a day at a time baby. ♪ >> john: as nationwide calls for racial justice and police reform atn in washington reached a stalemate. a republican-backed reform bill was blocked by senate democrats. and while house democrats did pass a bill, the legislation is likely dead on arrival in the senate. we want to return now to our conversation with vice-president pence. what do you hear the protestors saying when they protest? >> vice president pence: well, it's been a focus of rs si ing of georgfloyd in

minneapolis. there is no excuse for what happened to george floyd. but there is also no excuse for the rioting and looting and violence that ensued. look, the president engaged law enforcement leaders, we've sat down with leaders in the african-american community. i've met with leaders in the african-american community and law enforcement in cities around this country. and what i hear is while the radical left says we need to defund the police, what the american people want is for us to fund the police with additional training and support and also improve the lives of the people in our african-american communities, which i'm proud toan presmp's ad we ong overn'need to choice between supporting law enforcement and supporting our african-american neighbors. one, we can do both, and that's how we bring our country together. >> john: one thing

protestors would like to hear is leaders say black lives matter. you won't say that. why? >> vice president pence: all my life i've been inspired by the example of the reverend dr. martin luther king, jr. when i was in congress, i traveled to his home church in montgomery, with congress john lewis, i walked across the bridge on the answer of bloody sunday. i cherish the progress that we have made towards a more perfect union for african-americans throughout our history. and i've aspired throughout my career to be a part of that ongoing work. it's really a hard issue for me. and as a pro-life american, i also believe at i see i the black lives tter movement is a political agenda of the

radical left that would defund the police -- >> john: leave that out of it. just the phrase -- >> vice president pence: -- that would tear down monuments, that would press a radical left agenda and support calls for the kind of violence that has beset the very communities that they say they're advocating for. >> john: but, sir -- >> vice president pence: i've literally met with african-american leaders around this country, and in the national capital area, who made it clear to us they want law and order, they want peace in our streets. >> john: so you won't say black lives matter? >> vice president pence: john, i really believe that all lives matter. >> john: okay. >> vice president pence: and that's where the heart of the american people lies. >> john: and now we turn to the senator who drafted the senate bill on police reform, south carolina republican senator tim scott. good morning. good to see you, senator. >> good morning, john.

i hope you're doing well. >> john: we're doing all right. i want to ask you about this national moment that is testing all of us. protests in the streets like we haven't seen since the 1960s. i would like to ask you what i asked the vice president: what do you hear in the voices of those protestors? >> i hear from the non-violent protestors, what we hear consistently is this frustration that was ignited about eight minutes and 46 seconds of george floyd pleading for his life, saying he could not breathe, and then at the end asking for his mother. what i hear is a concern and a frustration that i have felt as a person whohaed bn the last couple of decades, including this year. what i hear in the protestors is let's get to the table and get something done. what i hear from the protestors is, this is our es to ea ts

country. and what i did, because i have heard and felt the frustration of the protestors myself, is i drafted legislation that says we see, we hear you, and let's move together thy inteing and important moment. interesting in that the country's response, john, has been amazing. white folks and black folks, brown ones and yellow ones, have come together in the streets of our cities to say we want to be a unified country. i say thank you and god bless them. >> john: in the moment of unity, senator, i don't want to ask you this next ed stas prod i must. his 82 million video followers in which somebody screamed "white power." i'm going to play it now for those who have not seen it. >> white power! >> there you go, white power! do you hear that?

>> john: senator that is on the president of the united states' twitter feed to 82 million people. your reaction? >> well, he should just take it down. that's inappropriate and it should be taken down. >> john: you wery compelling case, hearing this agony and this cry of protestors, and coming together for unity, white power is not unity. >> certainly, it absolutely is not. i live in a city where the civil war started. the city of south carolina, we have evolved and that is a great thing. when you hear that racist chant towards white power, we should have the same type of energy for those folks we know have been disadvantaged for so long. we should stand up and say, that's not right. i'm saying the exact same thing now, that's not right. but that is not the entire conversation and that is

not the entire clip. that was a terrible display that i saw in that video. i watched the whole video before i came on the show. the whole thing was terrible. >> john: let's get to your legislation, because that's your effort to try to get at this momen we'r >>ohn, it is h for me to tell you exactly why. my suspicion is that the presidential politics, and choosing a vice president, was a part of that conversation. what i offered my friends on the other side was not five amendments based on senator schumer's letter to us saying there were five major issues. i said, let's fix those five. they came into the room and we were going to chat about it. and they said there are 20 things we would like to change. and i said, i'll give you 20, and i'll start with my amendment on chokeholds. it was about the same, but in the house legislation they had blood flow as

well as air flow. they suggested that my bill will not include air flow. i will add that in there and make that change. we could do so much for those folks in the streets today, and we missed a golden opportunity not because the bills weren't similar enough, but because what the house wanted was not what the senate democrats wanted to have a conversation about. >> john: it seems to me, senator, that it is the procedural question and a policy question, in jour disagreement with democrats. you suggested it is about vice presidential politics. do you think democrats are talking to you in good faith, or is it past that? >> listen, i'm going to be open to having a conversation this week, in a few days, with some of the leaders who put together the house bill. i fashioned much of what i saw from what i liked in the house bill. there are things in the house bill that i do think are not in the best

interests of the country. let me just be clear on that fact. while i do talk about the fact there are lots of things in common, there are a few things that i believe makes it worse on cities, makes it worse on the most vulnerable pulations within those cities. and what we're seeing manifesting in new york city today is a byproduct of those concerns i have about the house legislation. there is a reason why murder is up 79% over the numbers last year, 64% shooting increase over the numbers last year just in new york city. when you start demonizing and stereotyping all law enforcement as evil and bad, you start putting targets on their backs, and you start seeing them withdraw from some areas, and that creates a powder keg that is not good for the nation. so the demonizing of law enforcement is not a part of my bill because i don't want law enforcement to demonize african-americans. we have to be on the same page. >> john: quickly,

senator, on the question of accountability and holding police accountable, basically the other side is saying they get let off the hook unless they do something that is >>umber one, law enforcement officers being civilly not prosecuted, but they're getting exact money from law enforcement officers as a means of fixing this problem -- i don't agree with that at all. giving the victims' families an opportunity to get more money from cities and counties and states, absolutely. >> john: okay. senator scott, we're very grateful you're with us. we've run out of time. thanks so much. >> oh, darn. >> john: we'll be back in a moment.

>> john: joining us now is cheryl eiffel, the president of the naacp, an organization dedicated for fighting racial justice. good morning. >> good morning, john. >> john: i want to start with that video that i played for senator scott,

and apparently the president has taken it down, but when you're president you can't delete the things you say. and i want to get your reaction to the white power video he promoted. >> this is really not about the president taking it down. this is about the judgment of the president in putting it up. it is about what the president believes. and it is time for this country to really face that. i spent the first few years of this presidency with reporters asking me questions over and over again about whether, in fact, the president was racist and whether he supported white supremacist ideology. i'm through answering that question because the president answers it himself. >> john: in talking with the vice president, i asked him about the phrase black lives matter, and he said all lives matter. i wonder in the current context, in this moment of protest that we haven't seen since the 1960s, what you think he misses about that phrase and what it means in this moment? >> i don't think we have

enough time on this program to explore all of the things the vice president is likely missing. you know, even if the vice president had said black lives matter, it would be hallow, and i wouldn't believe it because he is the vice president of the united states, just like we have a president, like sh buby their ce presint say for his entire life he has been guided by the words of martin luther king, jr., then he would know what dr. martin luther king, jr. said about protests, when he said, "riots are the language of the unheard." so to hear him say that and at the same time hear his comments about protests, demonstrate that the vice president is far from understanding the significance of this moment and really what his obligation is, when people across the country in 50 states, not just black people, but people of all races, are coming together and standing together and

saying enough is enough. >> john: one of the responses to that cry fromeets s that have gone through the house and the senate. focusing on the senate for a moment, we just talked to senator scott, who's bill was blocked. part of what the senators did is cite your bill in why that bill should be blocked. is there any common ground here to get some maybe some movement on this issue? >> you know, much is told by the senator's words that this is a response to the cries from the street in light of the death of george floyd. that is not where this started, and the problem is that too many people in the united states congress have only woken up to this issue or decided to do something about this issue in the last six weeks, or the last four weeks. where were they in 2014 when people were protesting in ferguson? where were they in 2014 when eric garner was

killed on the streets of new york. some of us can go ba back to eleanor bumpers -- this is a decades-old struggle. in 1964, '65, '66, '67, 150 cities, it started with an encounter between law enforcement and african-americans. what is needed is a regime of accountability. the problem with the senate bill is it proposes a regime of data collection and the creation of commissions to study a problem that we already know quite a bit about. so what we need is accountability, and that is completely absent from the house bdoes include a regime of accountability. i will say i don't represent the democratic party. i represent communities of

color, i represent black people as a civil rights organization, as leader of a civil rights organization, and we didn't get everything we wanted in the house bill either. but the house bill does include a strong regime of accountability. it addresses of issue of qualified immunity, for example. >> john: walk me through qualified immunity. it is very helpful for federal workers trying to do their jobs. explain the problem in terms of accountability, and is there any middle ground here that can be found? >> well, first of all this bill will only eliminate qualified immunity for lawrmts. law enfoement.qualif imas been so distorted. the doctrine allows public workers and police officers to be able to defend themselves against actions they may have taken, unless it was clear that those actions violated the law. it has to be a clearly established law that the actions were

unconstitutional. but courts have now taken it to the point where unless the exact fact pattern -- so a police officer tases to death our client in alabama, and we can't get the supreme court to hear the case because there has to be an exact scenario of someone being tased to death 19 times that has been found to be unconstitutional in order to establish that qualified immunity is not available. it is beyond belief the kind of egregious conduct we see and the way it has been distorted. conservatives, many conservatives, also understand that qualified immunity has gone too far, including senator lindsey graham who says he is willing to look at it. so we need to deal with that element of accountability. >> john: cheryl, we've run out of time. thank you so much for t yu for me, john. >> john: and we'll be right back.

>> john: that's it for us today. thanks for watching. margaret will be back next week. for "face the nation," i'm john dickerson. ♪ captioning sponsored by cbs captioned by media access group at wgbh ac

(upbeat music) - [announcer] game time, (upbeat music) with boomer esiason. this week's guest, is pulitzer prize winning columnist, and baseball's bard, george will. (upbeat music) presented by geico. (upbeat music) - today's guest is a pulitzer prize winning political columnist, television commentator, and author whose current bestseller is entitled, "the conservative sensibility." now he's also famously a chicago cubs fanatic, ose boabt seball and it's my pleasure to welcome a man who says, "i'd rather talk about baseball than anything else." the one anlc game ti. - well to be with you. i've published 15 books, and "men at work,"

has sold more than the other 14 combined. - i know it has,