>> for his new book, "rage," bob woodward interviewed president trump 18 times. >> tell me more. >> tonight, in his only interview, you'll hear the reporter of watergate fame, and mr. trump, recorded and on the record about north korea, the black lives matter movement and coronavirus. >> i wanted to-- i wanted to always play it down. i still like playing it down. >> yes, i- >> because i don't want to create a panic. ( ticking ) >> this is where the tijuana river crosses the border into

the united states. to contain flooding from rain flow. but this isn't just rainwater, it's a toxic mix of raw sewage from neighboring tijuana, draining into southern california on lower ground, eventually emptying into the pacific ocean. >> so it, effectively, it's like a toilet flushing straight into this river valley. ( ticking ) >> you may think you know joaquin phoenix from the parts he's played-- dark, complicated, sometimes disturbed characters, like the deranged clown in "joker." that's not what we found at all. one person we talked to, who-- who knows you, says that you're a wonderful actor and a terrible movie star. is that-- >> who is this person? i-- >> i'm-- but i'm not going to say. ( laughter ) ( ticking ) >> i'm lesley stahl. >> i'm bill whitaker. >> i'm anderson cooper. >> i'm scott pelley.

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>> pelley: tonight, new reporting from the "washington post's" bob woodward says that president trump was bluntly warned in january about the threat of coronavirus, bdan public. woodward's new book, "rage," is his latest work in a 50-year career investigating american presidents. his first investigation, reported with carl bernstein, led to the resignation of

richard nixon. for "rage," mr. trump agreed to 18 recorded interviews. many, which you're about to hear, started with the words of the white house operator," mr. woodward? the president." mr. trump called, sometimes late at night, to talk about "black lives matter," the threat of nuclear war, and about the dire warning he received during an intelligence briefing this past january. >> bob woodward: on january 28th of this year, before the virus was on anyone's radar, the national security advisor, robert o'brien, told the president, "this virus will be the biggest national security threat you face in your presidency." >> pelley: what was the president's reaction? >> woodward: his head popped up, and he asked questions. >> pelley: president trump's

questions in the january 28 meeting exposed a difference of opinion. beth sanner, from the office of the director of national intelligence, said the virus might be no worse than sars in 2003, when there were only eight known infections in the u.s. but, woodward says, deputy national security advisor matt pottinger, who had been a reporter in china, told mr. trump his unofficial chinese contacts had raised a grave warning. >> woodward: pottinger said his contacts in china told him "this is going to be like the 1918 spanish flu pandemic that killed 675,000 people in this country." it was a stunning moment in the trump presidency and, i think, in american history, because he then went on to publicly dismiss the virus.

and he knew that this was a pandemic coming. >> pelley: and this is january 28? >> woodward: yes. pley:he next day, the white house announced a coronavirus task force. this was mr. trump, january 30, two days after the warning. >> president trump: we think we have it very well under control. we have very little problem in this country at this moment. five. and those people are all recuperating successfully. but we're working very closely with china and other countries, and we think it's going to have a very good ending for us. so, that i can assure you. >> pelley: chinese officialswerw >> alex azar: foreign nationals... >> pelley: on january 31, the president restricted tfrom china. the next week, in a phone call, mr. trump told woodward what he'd been learning about the virus. this was february 7: >> trump: it goes through air,

bob. that's always tougher than the touch. you know, the touch, you don't have to touch things, right? but the air, you just breathe the air and that's how it's passed. and so that's a very tricky one. that's a very delicate one. it's also more deadly than your, you know, your-- even your strenuous flus. this is deadly stuff. >> pelley: three weeks after that call, the president said this to the public. >> trump: it's a little like the regular flu, that we have flu shots for. and we'll essentially have a flu shot for this in a fairly quick manner. yeah, go ahead. >> pelley: in that february 7 interview, it's clear that the president knows what the stakes are. but he's not sharing that with the public at that time. >> woodward: yes. this is the tragedy. the president of the united states has a duty to warn. the public will understand that. but if they get the feeling that they're not getting the truth, then you're going down the path of deceit and cover-up.

>> pelley: did the president ever disclose to you why he wasn't telling the public what the stakes were with the coronavirus? >> woodward: so, in march, i asked exactly that question. you know, "what's going on?" and the president said: >> trump: well, i think, bob, really, to be honest with you... >> woodward: sure, i want you to be. >> trump: i wanted to-- i wanted to always play it down. i still like playing it down. >> woodward: yes, i- >> trump: because i don't want to create a panic. >> woodward: i think he did not understand the american public. and he said, "well, i don't want to create a panic." we know, from history, when the public is told the truth, they organize." we have a problem. we're going to step up." and trump thought, "oh, well, they'll panic." when there's a crisis-- when the president, particularly, knows something, it's time to tell the

public in some form. he failed. >> pelley: you write in the book that, "the president's handling of the virus reflects his instincts, habits, and style." what are those? >> woodward: denial. making up his own facts. >> pelley: at age 77, bob woodward has fact-checked nine presidents. "rage" is his 20th book. it's published by simon and schuster, part of viacom-cbs. >> woodward: the title, "rage," comes from him. he said he brings out "rage" in people. and he doesn't know whether that's a positive or a negative, or a good thing or a bad thing. and also, it describes a condition in the country now. there's a lot of rage out there. >> pelley: his interviews for "rage" started in the oval

office, then continued for months in phone calls, many out- of-the-blue from mr. trump. >> woodward: yes. i mean, you have an audiotape of this, where they come on. "mr. woodward, the president." >> white house operator: mr. woodward, the president. >> trump: hi bob. >> woodward: president trump, how are you? >> trump: hi. how are you? >> woodward: i'm turning my recorder on, here, as i always do. >> trump: okay. >> woodward: it started in december 2019, before the virus was on anyone's radar. so, we were talking a lot about north korea. >> pelley: in mr. trump's first year, north korea tested its first intercontinental missile. woodward says the president gave defense secretary james mattis authority to shoot down any north korean missile aimed at the u.s. north korea dominated their earliest interviews. >> woodward: i think the public did not realize, and trump told me, repeatedly, he said, "you

don't know how close we were to war." >> pelley: instead, north korean dictator kim jong-un offered to meet. they did, three times. woodward has more than two dozen letters exchanged in their diplomatic courtship. >> woodward: kim says to trump, "our meetings, our relationship, is out of a fantasy film." he says, "there is a magical force between us." "even now, i cannot forget that moment of history, when i firmly held your excellency's hand as the whole world watched." >> pelley: did the c.i.a. have a look at kim's letters? >> woodward: yes. >> pelley: and what did they make of them? >> woodward: they never figured out who was writing them. but the analysts concluded that they're masterpieces.

because they are appealing to trump's sense of grandiosity. >> pelley: woodward's interviews took a sharp turn may 25, after george floyd was killed by minneapolis police officers. the "black lives matter" movement reignited. >> black lives matter! >> trump: i got it. >> woodward: do you think there is systematic or institutional racism in this country? >> trump: well, i think there is everywhere. i think probably less here than most places, or less here than many places. >> woodward: okay, but is it here, in a way that it has an impact on people's lives? >> trump: i think it is, and it's unfortunate. but i think it is. >> pelley: woodward asked mr. trump if a privileged life left him out of touch. >> woodward: and do you have any sense that that privilege has isolated and put you in a cave, to a certain extent-- as it put

me, and i think lots of white, privileged people, in a cave-- and that we have to work our way out of it to understand the anger and the pain, particularly, black people feel in this country? do you see? >> trump: no. you-- you really drank the kool- aid, didn't you? just listen to you. wow. no, i don't feel that at all. >> woodward: he was ridiculing me for reflecting what the whole movement, after george floyd, is. >> pelley: by the time of their final interviews in august, mr. trump had become the leader of the one nation suffering the most from the virus. the president came to this conclusion. >> woodward: you and i- >> trump: nothing more could have been done. nothing more could have been done. >> woodward: "nothing more could have been done." does he remember what he told

me, back in february, about "it's more deadly than the flu?" i mean, it almost took my breath away, that there was such certainty, when he was absolutely wrong about the issue that defines the position of this country right now. >> pelley: this past week, the "washington post" published woodward's calls with the president, and woodward was criticized for not reporting, back in february, what mr. trump had said about the virus being deadly. woodward says he didn't know at the time whether mr. trump was right. in our interview, we asked about another controversy, contained in the last line of the book. it might disappoint some of your fans that you reach an editorial conclusion at the end of this

book, something that reporters are not supposed to do. >> woodward: yes. i say the president is the wrong man for the job. >> pelley: but you're known as the reporter who doesn't put his thumb on the scale. and yet, at the end of this book, you do just that. >> woodward: it's a conclusion based on evidence-- overwhelming evidence-- that he could not rise to the occasion with the virus and tell the truth. and one of the things that president trump told me, "in the presidency, there's always dynamite behind the door." "the real dynamite is president trump. he is the dynamite." >> pelley: the president's final call came too late. he asked woodward to include the august peace agreement between israel and the united arab emirates. but "rage" was already off to the press.

woodward took the opportunity to level with the president. >> woodward: and i said, "it's a tough book. there are going to be things that you are not going to like, judgments that i made." and he, at the end, said, "well, i didn't get you on this book. maybe i'll get you on the next one." >> trump: but it looks like i don't have it on this book, but we'll get you sometime later, i guess. >> woodward: it's tough, sir. thank you very much. >> pelley: and after you told the president that it was, in your words, "a tough book," what did he do? >> woodward: an hour and a half later, he tweeted out that "the bob woodward book is going to be fake." ( ticking ) >> why did president trump agree to speak to bob woodward? go to 60minutesovertime.com. to fill each tomorrow rey with moments that matter. and a steady stream of protected income

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>> stahl: the term "crisis on the border" typically refers to immigration issues or drugs being smuggled into the country. but it has one more meaning, as we discovered when we traveled to the border in early february. tens of millions of gallons of raw sewage that spill every year into the tijuana river on the mexican side and flow across the border right into southern california, polluting the land, air, and sea. mexico and the united states each thinks the other should be doing more to clean it up, with no effective solution found on either side of the border for decades. this is where the tijuana river crosses the border into the united states. this cement structure was built

to contain flooding from rainfall. but this isn't just rainwater. it's a toxic mix of raw sewage from neighboring tijuana, draining into southern california on lower ground, eventually emptying into the pacific ocean. >> amber craig: so it, effectively, it's like a toilet flushing straight into this river valley. >> stahl: border patrol agent amber craig took us on a tour of the sewage infiltration, showing us that what doesn't flush out to sea, washes up on land. mountains of plastic bottles, 's debs and wae, but.tous because the mosquitoes love to nest in it, so... >> stahl: it's a health concern. an eyesore. and it's hindering the border patrol's main mission. she took us to see presidentp'ng the border.

just this six-mile stretch cost an estimated $50 million. what we found is that under the wall, there's a network of basins and tunnels built 30 years ago to try to capture the sewage from tijuana. the red dot is me, next to agent amber craig, inside one of those concrete sewage collection basins. it's connected on either end to tunnels from mexico to california that were constructed right under the wall. so, you think of the smugglers and the migrants building tunnels to go under the wall-- but the u.s. government built this tunnel that goes under the wall. >> craig: yes, we built this so that the w into the united states. >> stahl: it has to flow freely, because four decades ago, the u.s. signed an agreement with mexico not to cause backup flooding at this area of the border. these metal grates at the ends

e keeping the rubbish out. it typically works fine duringer that comes through here comes through like a torrent. it is very, very dangerous. it is a raging river when it rains. >> stahl: with the tires and the barrels and everything. >> craig: full of debris and garbage, that's correct. it's very dangerous. >> stahl: the debris and garbage can hurtle down here with such force that border patrol agents have to open the grates to prevent the system from clogging. that means trash flows into california unobstructed. it's also an opening for migrants. the purpose of the wall is being totally defeated by this obligation of yours to lift the grates. >> craig: you-- well, yup. it does make it a little more challenging to have to have that open. of course, we don't want to have it open. >> stahl: if they go through that tunnel, they're in the

united states.: if traha a personnel, an agent, on the other sid, keeping-- >> stahl: so, as they come out. >> craig: that's correct. >> stahl: how do the smugglers know that the grates are lifted? >> craig: they watch. >> stahl: they watch? >> craig: sure. there're smugglers watching us probably right now. >> stahl: migrants are routinely caught risking their lives crossing in the sewage. some need to be rescued and decontaminated. let me read you a list that we found of stuff that is in this water. drug-resistant bacteria. benzene, cadmium, mercury, hexavalent chromium medical waste, and d.d.t.-- which has been banned for years in the united states. >> craig: yes, ma'am. >> stahl: i hear that sometimesr

a bright pink, neon green, dark black. >> stahl: so the migrants are going into this? >> craig: yes, ma'am. >> stahl: and the patrol agents are going into this. are they getting sick? >> craig: agents have reported various health injuries. rashes are very common. stomach issues. we've had one agent who had a flesh-eating bacteria, and he almost lost his arm. >> stahl: how angry are you and the other agents? >> craig: we're frustrated, very frustrated. agents know our job is dangerous. we've signed up for a job where nobody tught tthere, where we ing ome here and b thee, andhe chemicals, and the smell. >> stahl: congress just allocated $300 million to address the sewage issue all along the border. a fraction of what's needed, especially here, because of the rapidly-growing population of

tijuana. >> craig: it is a difficult situation. we're having to deal with another country. and the city of tijuana, it's just a huge city. it's overpopulated. their infrastructure isn't-- isn't prepared to handle this kind of flow, so it just comes right over the border. >> stahl: the local mexican sewage authority invited us to one of the main treatment pumps in tijuana. it often breaks down due to mechanical failures, so workers have to wade underground in black sludge to repair the buckling facility. while we were there, one worker got so overwhelmed by toxic fumes, he required medical attention. according to the mexican th taslinef defense keeping the sewage out of the u.s. here is a small crew of sanitation workers who unclog drains by hand along the br.

named abel, clearing trash with a rake. some of the wastewater that does get collected is pumped into these giant pools six miles south of the border, where the sewage is supposed to be treated and discharged through this massive pipe as clean water into the ocean. but the facility hasn't worked for years. so what you're looking at is untreated sewage emptying directly into the pacific. we stood by the torrent with fay crevoshay, an environmentalist with wild coast, a watchdog group of concerned citizfr of e. how much sewage are we talking about? >> fay crevoshay: yeah, the local authorities say that it's 25 million gallons a day. we think it's 40 million gallons. >> stahl: and it's just gushing, gushing, gushing out. >> crevoshay: that's what we have here.

>> stahl: making matters worse, entire shantytowns have popped up in tijuana's canyons along the border. many of these makeshift shacks were thrown up by people who moved here for jobs, at factories created by the north american free trade agreement. these factories are dumping their chemicals? >> crevoshay: sure. we have laws, but there is no-- >> stahl: enforcement. >> crevoshay: control. so why spend money? the problem is, these factories come here because it's cheap. they're going to pay the workers $8.00 a day. and this is theresult. this is where the workers live. these houses have no services, no electricity. >> stahl: no plumbing. >> crevoshay: no plumbing, nothing. >> stahl: this stream, this entire stream, is just raw sewage. >> crevoshay: sewage. >> stahl: when it rains, what happens to this stream? >> crevoshay: it grows. they have a whole river! you see all the lying garbage, all around it? >> stahl: yeah, that-- >> crevoshay: it takes it with! >> stahl: we saw tires

everywhere-- a lot of them from california, that were sold to mexican car owners second-hand. when the tires wear out, many are used to prop up homes on the hillside, or just get dumped and then get swept by the sewage right back to southern california. we wondered where all the untreated sewage that emptied into the ocean goes. well, we learned that it can flow right by a u.s. military training base. hard to believe, but the navy seals are training right in the path of the sludge. let me ask the seals, how many of you have gone swimming in that? >> all: all of us. >> stahl: retired naval officer mark west and four retired seals, alex lopez, kyle buckett, bill lyman, and steve viola, told us how the sewage impacts those training here. >> steve viola: it wreaks havoc on your system. stomach aches, throwing up-- i

mean, coming out both ends. fever. and you just have to suck it up and keep going. >> kyle buckett: we've had classes of, you know, 38 to 42 guys contract it during their training cycle. and it's a very-- it's a big challenge for us to deal with that. >> alex lopez: i contracted cellulitis. which is-- >> stahl: what's that? >> lopez: a bacterial, like, staph infection. it just took off, and it started eating, you know, flesh on both my legs. >> stahl: they say that the most vulnerable are seal buds, those trying out to be seals, especially during "hell week": 5.5 days immersed in the ocean, testing their endurance. ve you heard tha hell ek prophylactic antibiotics? >> viola: yes, i have heard that. >> stahl: you were a trainer. do you ever say, "these kids can't go in this today-- i can smell it, i can see it." >> buckett: yeah, absolutely. yeah, we have. >> stahl: you do. you do. >> buckett: we have, we have. and then we have to transition to the bay or to a pool.

>> bill lyman: there's no waves in the bay and there's no waves in the pool. >> stahl: are you seeing any reason for us to worry about your readiness? >> mark west: i think-- i think pacted. and, you kno >> stahl: it is being impacted? >> west: yeah, it is. >> stahl: the seals say the navy, aware of the sewage issue, is monitoring the water quality. so we found it odd that it is spending a billion dollars to expand the seals' training base much closer to the source of the pollution. >> viola: well, we had outgrown the capacity of the buildings that we had. so that's why we moved down there. >> stahl: but were they taking the pollution into account? >> lyman: no. >> stahl: the navy did do an environmental impact study. >> all: yes. >> buckett: the navy's main focus was to see how much we were going to impact the environment. it wasn't focused on what the environment was going to impact tahl: td y seal community. our request for an interview, but recently told congress in

this report that the run-off is a concern, yet its impact has been "infrequent and short- term," concluding that it is easily mitigated. serge dedina, mayor of imperial beach, the city on the south edge of the new base, doesn't buy it. >> serge dedina: they've ignored the health and safety of their own national security staff, and that's absolutely unacceptable. >> stahl: did you ever get any health problems from the water? >> dedina: yeah. i have a tube in my ear because i had so many ear infections. my kids have gotten sick. our lifeguards have gotten sick. pretty much every one of our council members have gotten sick. so, it's-- it's devastated our city. >> stahl: in more ways than one. imperial beach is a surfing town, but its beaches are closed a third of the year or more due to the toxic sludge. >> dedina: i've got to spend my time hammering people in power to make sure they understand that dumping toxic waste on navy seals and border patrol agents

is a bad idea, and getting them to acknowledge that it's actually happening. >> stahl: if the navy weighed in, do you think things would begin to happen? >> dedina: i think if the navy brass weighed in, this would be fixed tomorrow. >> stahl: meanwhile, the niagra of sewage keeps gushing, the grates keep opening, and abel keeps at it with his rake. ( ticking ) >> cbs is presented by progressive insurances, and the nfl today. cam skiers two and a win. greene baip, and 22 yards of offense on the way to a win. chicago scored unanswered to beat the lions, and the ravens with a romp over the browns. and a game winning field goal. for highlights go to cbs h

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disturbed. during his nearly four decades as an actor, dark, complicated characters have become something of a trademark. we first brought you this story in january, just before phoenix won his first oscar for his role as the mentally ill clown- turned-deranged killer, arthur fleck, in "joker." it's a daring, and complex performance that earned phoenix acclaim, and controversy. phoenix has a reputation for being difficult in interviews, and we weren't sure what to expect when we met him in los angeles. what we found was a shy, wry, welcoming actor who wasn't entirely sure he wanted to talk with us at all. do you like being interviewed? because it doesn't seem like, from other interviews i've read. >> jin phoit t it's not something-- if i had, like, the choice of, like, four different activities, i don't think-- ( laughs ) it'd be one-- >> cooper: this-- this would not-- >> joaquin: --that i would choose. >> cooper: --be one of them? >> joaquin: no. >> cooper: one person we talked to, who-- who knows you, says that you're a wonderful actor and a terrible movie star. is that-- >>qus i-- >> cooper: i'm-- but i'm not going to say.

>> joaquin: oh, please. you'd be interested-- ( laughs ) what does that mean? >> cooper: it means that you're not interested in the trappings of being a movie star. you don't have an assistant. you-- you're not on social media. >> joaquin: well, hold on. bu-- >> cooper: and-- and you're not in a-- living in a mega-mansion somewhere and driving, you know, lamborghinis around. >> joaquin: the lamborghini's in the shop. >> cooper: unlike many actors, phoenix isn't surrounded by an entourage. >> joaquin: i love you. >> cooper: just his two curious dogs, soda and oscar. he leads a relatively quiet life in the hollywood hills, unexceptional except for the fact he's widely considered one of the most talented actors of his generation. he's played jesus. >> joaquin: hello, i'm johnny cash. >> cooper: and johnny cash. >> joaquin: ♪ lay off that whiskey ♪ and let that cocaine be

all right! it takes an emperor to rule an empire. >> cooper: a cunning emperor in "gladiator," and a struggling loner in "the master." >> phillip seymour hoffman: tell me why you're not with her, if you love her so much. >> joaquin: i told her i-- i'd come back, and i never went back, and now i just, i got to get back to her. >> hoffman: why don't you go back? >> joaquin: i don't know. >> hoffman: why don't you go bck? >> joaquin: i don't know! >> hoffman: close your eyes. >> cooper: joaquin phoenix has appeared in more than 30 films... ( gunshots ) >> joaquin: did i hit you? >> cooper: ...and has already received three oscar nominations. ♪ yeah, we're going to jackson and never comin' back ♪ >> cooper: they say success breeds confidence... >> joaquin: what's happening out there? >> cooper: ...but phoenix is still plagued by self-doubt. do you get nervous? >> joaquin: yeah. yeah, absolutely. >> cooper: on a set? >> joaquin: yes, petrified. >> cooper: what are you petrified about? i mean, you're-- you've been doing this for 30-plus years. >> joaquin: yeah. there are so many things that i want to express. like, when i take on a role, and i go through the script, i--

just, like, full of ideas. and so i guess i'm just nervous that i'm not going to be able to-- to find the right kind of space to express that. >> cooper: he's been known to get testy when asked about his acting process. we tried anyway. >> joaquin: it's difficult to talk about because i don't really understand it, right? i'm just trying to articulate something for you, but i don't-- >> cooper: isn't it the fact that you didn't quite understand it that makes it so compelling? >> joaquin: yes. and it's what makes doing interviews so frustrating, right? because it is-- there's a certain mystery that i love and i appreciate-- and i'm comfortable with. >> you think you're perfect? huh? >> no! >> cooper: his characters, however, are often uncomfortable to watch. especially his most recent role as arthur fleck in "joker." phoenix transforms from a troubled, lonely clown, into a murderer. ( cheers ) >> joaquin: there were times

where i really felt for him. and there were times where i was disappointed and repulsed by his behavior, right? and i-- i-- i liked that. >> cooper: phoenix spent months talking through the script with his director, todd phillips. but the one thing he's loathe to do is rehearse with other actors. >> joaquin: it just-- it feels impossible to me. >> cooper: what do you mean, "impossible?" >> joaquin: i don't know, it's-- it just feels so fake. >> cooper: mmm. >> joaquin: i mean, the great thing about shooting a movie is shooting multiple takes, and you use editing and so you grab those best moments. so i'd rather discover those moments wh'ring, than in the rehearsal process, and then feel like, "oh, that was really good, what we did. how do we recreate that?" >> cooper: those moments he discovers while filming are often unscripted and unexpected, like this pivotal scene in "joker" just after he commits his first murder. the script simply called for phoenix to hide his gun in a

bathroom. >> joaquin: it felt like the character had moved way past that. and that there-- there was the-- the opportunity to express something else. but i didn't know precisely what that-- what that was. >> cooper: director todd phillips played him some cello music that had been composed for the film, and that sparked an idea. >> joaquin: and i thought there was some kind of-- some kind of movement, that it was like some physical transformation, right, metamorphosis. >> cooper: as the cameras rolled, he found himself marking that metamorphosis into a killer with this haunting and macabre ballet. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ there is an intensity to all the characters you've been playing. >> joaquin: yeah, which i love.

i think oftentimes people feel like i identify and i'm expressing something of my own experience through the character. i think it's the opposite. i think it's because oftentimes the characters have these lives and experiences that are so foreign to me, that it-- it breaks my heart. >> cooper: that may be one of the most surprising things about joaquin phoenix. he is not his characters. he's incredibly close to his family, and seems most relaxed when he's with them. what was joaquin like as a child? ( laughter ) >> joaquin: be very-- be very careful. be very careful with this mom-- >> rain phoenix: i think we all should answer this one at a time. >> joaquin: yeah. ( laughs ) from my perspective, i was a terror. >> cooper: ( laughs ) you were a terror? >> joaquin: yeah, but i was hoping you guys were going to go, like, "that's not true." >> heart phoenix: that is so not true! >> joaquin: i know. thanks guys, i know. >> cooper: he has three sisters: rain, liberty, and summer. that's his stepdad jeffrey and

his mom, heart. if those names didn't tip you off, the phoenixes were a band of hippies. they had little money, but deep convictions. heart and their late father, john lee phoenix, home-schooled the kids, and in the 1970s, they moved around constantly. for two years, they lived in venezuela with a cult called the children of god. >> joaquin: yeah, they obviously don't advertise themselves as a cult or else nobody would join, right? so it seemed like it was this community. >> cooper: you really did not have much of anything. is that fair to say-- >> heart: we were ministers. we were just living on the road, and we shared our truth, and we would get donations. >> cooper: but by 1977, they say they'd grown disillusioned with the cult and moved back to the u.s., eventually settling in los angeles with no money and no real plan. ♪ ♪ the phoenix kids started performing on the streets. that's seven-year-old joaquin on the t.nexto him his older broth,

river phoenix. >> ♪ gonna make it gonna make it ♪ gonna make it >> cooper: river was the first to get into acting, and became a star in the hit film "stand by me." joaquin was ten when he landed his big break on an episode of "hill street blues." what do you remember about it? >> joaquin: i remember that-- are you guys going to play the scene on this thing? and then i'm going to answer it and it's going to be-- >> cooper: you know what? ( laughs ) television is a visual medium. so, i mean-- >> joaquin: my memory is that-- i felt like my entire body was buzzing. there was a certain kind of power that, right? i was in a room full of adults, and i felt that, i had, like-- affected them. like, i-- i had-- i had changed how they were feeling. >> cooper: well, you punched one of them. >> joaquin: well-- ( laughter ) it wasn't-- >> cooper: i'm sure you changed how she was feeling. >> joaquin: it wasn't real. it wasn't real, anderson. >> you're daddy's very sick right now. >> joaquin: my daddy's not sick, don't say that about him.

don't say that about him! >> cooper: as a teenager, joaquin became surprisingly picky about the roles he took, and didn't act much. his brother, river phoenix, had become a household name, and at 18 was nominated for an oscar. but in 1993, it all ended. river phoenix died of a drug overdose outside this hollywood club. joaquin and rain phoenix were with him. he was just 23. the family has rarely spoken about his death publicly. >> joaquin: we were so removed from, kind of, the entertainment world. we didn't watch entertainment shows. we didn't have the entertainment magazines in our house. you know, w-- i mean, river was a really substantial actor and movie star, and we didn't really know it. and so, during that time, in which you're most vulnerable, there are helicopters flying over, there are people that are trying to sneak onto your land. certainly, for me, it felt like it impeded on the mourning

process, right? >> heart: the grieving process happens out of nowhere, you know? i'll be driving and all of a sudden, i will feel it. and i'll just-- >> cooper: even now? >> heart: --welcome it. oh, yeah. i mean-- >> cooper: there's no timeline for grief. >> heart: --i mean, there is no timeline or no place where, you know, it just happens. and i-- and i welcome it. ♪ ♪ >> cooper: the family has found creative ways to honor river's life. his sister rain, a musician, just released an album dedicated to river, and the family runs a non-profit organization named after him that works on social justice issues and conflict resolution. joaquin says he's felt his brother's presence throughout his career, which has been wildly successful and often unconventional. a decade ago, joaquin made a fake documentary about his own life called "i'm still here." it wasea a me, and as part of the f hennoued he qu acting to become a rapper. >> ♪ i never betrayed you i never did what you ♪ thought i did still you came

at me ♪ swinging, kid >> cooper: it was all an act, but hardly anyone knew. phoenix kept up the facade in public for more than a year. you may remember this disastrous appearance with david letterman. >> david letterman: you're not going to act anymore? >> joaquin: no. >> letterman: why is that? >> joaquin: hmm, i don't know. i mean... ( laughter ) >> letterman: so you have given it some thought. >> cooper: there were rumors he was on drugs, or having a breakdown. the film was a flop, but phoenix says it made him a better actor, less afraid to make mistakes. >> joaquin: i think what i didn't know is how much it would impact and influence my career as an actor. >> cooper: what is the impact? >> joaquin: e' liberatingbo publi humiliation.>> cr: s to go throh that sort of crucible is freeing in a way? >> joaquin: yeah, i mean, look-- can't get much worse, right? >> cooper: far from it. "joker" has brought in more than

a billion dollars so far, and is the highest-grossing r-rated movie of all time-- success fueled in part by controversy. some people thought the film glorified a killer. others saw it as a case study of mental illness, and society's failures to address it. >> joaquin: i've described it as, like, a rorschach test. it says something about the person viewing it, and what they think that it's about. that's really rare, for a film to kind of have that effect on people. so, in some ways, i welcomed it. >> cooper: phoenix is already working on another film. when we last saw him, it was one of his few moments of downtime, and he was more than ready to see us leave. so, when you're not working, what do you-- what do you do? i mean, do you like having time off? >> joaquin: i do. yeah, i love it. i feel very comfortable with time off. what do i do? i-- i think i do normal things. i like to cook. i really don't want to talk

about what i do. >> cooper: okay, fine, fine. >> joaquin: you know what i mean? because i just feel like i go like, "i like to cook, i like to go see movies with my girlfriend," and i just go, like... but, i mean, i--yosic, needs. >> cooper: yeah, never mind, i don't care. >> joaquin: even better. ( laughter ) ( ticking ) a pill for adults with moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis when methotrexate has not helped enough. xeljanz can help relieve joint pain and swelling, stiffness, and helps stop further joint damage, even without methotrexate. xeljanz can lower your ability to fight infections. before and during treatment, your doctor should check for infections, like tb and do blood tests. teu've had hepatitis b or c, have flu-like symptoms, or are prone to infections. serious, sometimes fatal infections, cancers including lymphoma, and blood clots have happened.

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