>> brennan: welcome back to "face the nation." we're here in new york city. we go now to former homeland security secretary jeh johnson, who is here in studio, which is exciting. we've both been tested for coronavirus. good morning. >> good morning. >> brennan: it is nice to see a face -- >> my first live interview in about eight months, yes. >> brennan: i think mine, too. you told us before on this program you're relatively optimistic about the security of the upcoming election. but both candidates have said things that have raised concerns. joe biden says he thinks he can win as long as there is no shenanigans going on. what should americans at home be thinking about all of this? >> i cannot, margaret, discount the possibility

of the tensions, unrest, on election day, and in the immediate aftermath. i do know that our f.b.i. has been very focused on this issue. they've set up relationships with state election officials to monitor what we see across various different states. in the event there is trouble, our governors do have the national guard to preserve the peace. but, margaret, none of this discussion should discourage people from participating in voting and exercising their right and responsibility to vote. i'm encouraged that more than 90 million americans have already cast their ballots. which if you do the math, is the equivalent of the entire 1996 presidential election. i remain optimistic, but we cannot discount the possibility of some trouble or unanticipated events -- >> brennan: and it is the job of law enforcement to worry about these

pockets. possibilities. yothey're going to be briefing the media every few hours on election day about any interference. how do you assess the security of this election and what the trump administration has done? >> i'm very proud of the fact that my old department, d.h.s., through the cyber security and infrastructure security agency -- it is a newly created agency, has set up basically a crisis action center on election day and has set up relationships with various state election officials. and they've even gone so far as setting up a mechanism to debunct rumors. that is very, very encouraging. i'm concerned, margaret, about foreign interference. there is, in fact, foreign interference right now in the 2020 election. we know this from our own government. the iranians have attempted to intimidate

democratic voters. we know there was a large-scale targeting exercise by the russian government, but our government does not know exactly what their plan is. so there is, in fact, foreign interference. so i'm encouraged that d.h.s. is taking this very seriously. they've planned for this. they've had four years to plan for this. but there is no complete line of defense against a sophisticated foreign actor. so it is up to the voters to be informed and look past the disinformation that is out there. >> brennan: what you're talking about is an influence campaign to manipulate thinking or confidence, versus going in and changing votes, necessarily. >> right. >> brennan: back in 2016, president obama didn't want a lot of public details about what russia was doing to trying to interfere in that election, and he was criticized after the fact after it. the trump administration has decided to be very public about this. is that the right

approach? >> let me disagree a little bit. the director of national intelligence and i on october 7th, 2016, made public what we knew then about what was happening. >> brennan: but it was very close to the election and weeks after -- >> it was very close to the election. it was after a very deliberate exercise of declassifying what we knew in a way that did not compromise sources and methods. also wrestling with the real concern that by going public, we are, in fact, possibly undermining our democracy. >> brennan: do you think that is what is happening now by making this public? >> i believe -- well, i believe that our foreign adversaries, i believe that the foreign actors, are interested in undermining confidence in our democracy, and that's probably their overall objective here. i am concerned that the president himself has said little to nothing to promote confidence in our democratic process. and so it's really on

americans to have faith in our democratic process. roughly one half of the country -- and this is a very emotional election. roughly one half of the country after next tuesday will be bitterly disappointed. what i suggest is it is more important for americans to think about the long-term preservation of our democracy for themselves, their kids, their grandkids, preserving our democracy more than any particular political result is what is key here. >> brennan: very quickly, you have been reported to be possibly under consideration as a biden administration cabinet official. are you interested in serving again? >> it is difficult to look past the next 72 hours. i'm a private citizen. i've been in government four separate times. if asked to serve again, as a patriotic american, i would have to carefully consider it. >> brennan: all right. we hope to have you back in that job or as a

private citizen. thank you very much, mr. secretary. we'll be right back with dr. scott gottlieb. stay with us.

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♪ >> brennan: we turn now to former f.d.a. commissioner dr. scott gottlieb. we thank you for being here in person. you've been tested and i've been tested, and hopefully you approve. i haven't seen you in person since mid-march. things haven't gotten better, in fact, they seem to be getting worse and accelerating in the affection rate this week alone. the numbers are pretty staggering. the president continues to say we're rounding the corner. that is just not factually accurate? >> doctor: things are getting worse around the country. i think december is probably going to be our toughest month. when you look at what is happening in states, you're seeing accelerating spread. we're right at the beginning of what looks like expedential growth in the midwest, the great west, even in states like

texas, 6,000 cases, illinois, 8,000 cases, wisconsin 5,000 cases reported on friday. these are very worrisome trends, there are about 23states that are accelerating the spread right now. the positivity rate is above 10% in 15 states. and all of the states are above one, which means they're an expanding epidemic right now. this is very worrisome as we head into the winter. >> brennan: actually, that was acknowledged in a pretty frank interview by dr. fauci with the "washington post" that published yesterday. he said neither he, nor dr. birx, from the task force has briefed the president in quite some time. he said that's because the white house didn't like the news. tey needed to have a medical message that was essentially consistent with what they were saying. that's pretty flatout saying that medical information and the public's health is being played with for political purposes. do you agree with that? >> doctor: well, look, i think the facts are going to overtake any political dialogue very quickly.

i think as we get into the next two or three weeks, it will be unmistakable what is happening around the country. i don't think we're going to lockdown like europe is. and europe has a very dense epidemic. there is a very worrisome trend in europe -- i don't think the political support is here for it even at a state level. i believe you'll see targeted mitigation and states taking local action. we're going to have to start taking more aggressive actions. my view i is the inflection point will be thanksgiving. and december will be the slow month, but i think it will be unmistakable what is happening at that point and we're going to have to because the hospital systems will being depressed again. >> brennan: the president is still the president until at least january. if he wins, he owns this through a second term. what does he need to be focused on? >> doctor: i think he needs to be focused on providing resources to states. they have to get a stimulus passed and funding out to states to

try to deal with this. i think we need to focus on what we're going to prioritize in terms of trying to keep things open and get things open, particularly the schools. we're going to need to support states that have to take that targeted action, try to get compliance with things like masks. i think the bul bully pulpit is very important. to try to reduce the spread. once we ensue with this over the next two months, this is largely going to play out over the next two months. by the time a president is rein inaugurated, whoever that is, we probably will be coming down the economic curve. what he does over the next two months will be very important. >> brennan: joe biden, i know you looked at his plan. if he wins, he comes in in january where we might be on a downward slope. what needs to happen in the no november to january

timeframe. are we in a period of congress where none of what you're saying needs to be done is done. >> the vice president is talking about getting more testing out. i think at that point, we should be trying to prioritize opening schools in the late winter or early spring -- >> brennan: you don't think schools should close again? >> doctor: i think schools that are open might find ways to stay open, and the schools that are closed, they need to try to get them open. if bid den were to biden were t, they need to get proper p.p.e. to teachers, testing in schools that can't use social distancing so schools can open. and reporting on what the collective experience has been. if you can put out information on what has worked and what hasn't, that should reassure schools that are opening. that should be a priority. we've been talking about

it, but we haven't been taking the actions to actually facilitate it. >> brennan: i want to play a bit of sound to you of something president trump said at a rally this week. >> president trump: our doctors get more money if somebody dies from covid. our doctors are very smart people. so what they do is say, i'm sorry, everybody dies of covid. >> brennan: it sounds like the president is saying there is some financial incentive for doctors to manipulate covid data, that they're making money off of it. >> doctor: i think it is troubling to suggest that doctors are manipulating the data to get higher im imbusment. the reason is it is more expensive to take care of these patients in the hospital. have you to have covid and pneumonia. any dr. that would be documenting covid pneumonia where a patient

doesn't have it, that's fraud. and c.m.s. has tried to encourage doctors to do more testing inside the hospitals. so the testing that doctors are doing inside the hospitals is because the government has encouraged them to do that money. if you have pneumonia and covid, that's not the patients that happen to come in with another condition and have covid. there is no additional reimbursement for that. >> brennan: who do you think is telling him that? >> i think there are advisors telling him that. >> brennan: it is good to see you in person. >> doctor: good to see you. >> brennan: and we'll be back with more with or election team. so don't go away.

>> brennan: we want to take a closer look now at what to expect on election night with the cbs news team that will bring you our coverage from right here in times square. as norah o'donnell, john dickerson, gayle king and

ed o'keefe are here, it is good to have you all. but we've all been seeing each other and practicing and practicing and practicing. thank you for coming out to tell us, our interview verse, norah o'donnell, to expect. what do you think the viewers need to be watching for on tuesday night? >> the massive voter turnout we have already seen shows that everybody believes their voice matters, their vote matters. there is a passionate electorate out there on both sides of the aisle. we're focusing on nine states, calling them the notable nine. florida, georgia, north carolina, ohio, and iowa. those are states the president has to hold on to. and then he has to add to there. maybe it is pennsylvania, michigan, wisconsin, arizona, to get to that magic number of 270. while joe biden holds the lead in many of these battleground states, and has consistently in many of them, and nationally, i am hearing from both republican and democratic

sources that that is narrowing. there is an intensity on the republican side. there is an intensity on president trump's travel, he is going to five states yesterday. on monday he is going to scranton, which is, of course, joe biden's birthplace. i'm hearing from people there is a tightening of the gap, and there is an enthusiasm on the republican part. they think they can turn out the people on election day. >> brennan: and ronna mcdaniel leaning into that idea. gayle, what do you make of that? >> i think there is enthusiasm on both sides, like people have never seen. i think the latest number is 90 million people have voted early. i voted on friday, and waited in line for two hours. some people waited in line for five hours. this is what i kept hearing -- i didn't ask people who they were voting for, but what i

heard was, we just want this to be over. you have an increase in younger people, black people, latino voters. shaquille o'neal, who is 48, announced for the first time time he is voting for the very first time, and he is 48, because he believes there is so much at stake. you keep hearing that messaging on both sides, there is so much at stake. so they're deeply divided, and people are very worried and very afraid. however this turns out, people on both sides are very afraid. >> brennan: yeah. and we'll talk about all of this on tuesday. ed, some of this comes down to just basic math at this point. we know there has been so much time on the trail, and both candidates are spending a lot of time in the midwest, really trying to win those supporters in the heartland. for joe biden, he has got to bring them back to the democratic party. >> he does. which is why you saw so much focus by him personally on michigan,

explaining with former president obama, and they brought out stevie wonder. him, his running mate, kamala harris, dr. biden, all campaign across pennsylvania tomorrow. for so long they called him the third senator of pennsylvania, and he is emotionally invested in winning that back. and look at the supporting character like barack obama is headed to georgia, not only to campaign for biden but for the two democratic senate candidates. they believe at least one of them could get beyond 50% and win that seat. you're seeing a conversation about unity, figuring out the pandemic from the biden side, versus literally, make america great again, again. hold the big rallies, turn out your supporters on election day and make it happen. we'll see who ultimately figured it out. >> brennan: that's the thing, john, i feel all of

us are holding our breath. president trump has made his political career around defying the odds. can he do that again? >> well, let's step back and think about what the odds here are for incumbent president. usually if you're not at a 50% approval rating, you're in real danger. and he is also a president overseeing a pandemic that has killed 230,000 americans. and he is in open conflict with his health officials about what to do. and he is blamed by the majority of voters for not handling the pandemic, which is the number one issue most polls show for americans. so if the president is re-elected, the rabbit he will have pulled out of the hat is the old line about the buck stops here. the majority of americans who said they think he has done a bad job, four more years to him. that's an extraordinary thing. if he does it, it will be the greatest death-defying

act he has done. he will do it by doing well in the rural areas, and non-college white voters, and winning his lead among suburban women. he has to make that loss smaller. if the president wins, it will be an extraordinary political act. >> brennan: and it will be the final, in some ways, transformation of the republican party to the party of trump, will it not? >> if you look at the various states, and talk to the republicans in various battleground states, it is already president trump's party. you know it because of the incentives for those who would like to rise in the party. what is the threshold question for anybody who wants to be a future success in the republican trump or you against him? if you're not with him, you have no future right now in the republican party. >> brennan: and we see that with trying to be in both places with some of the senate candidates? >> you can go to iowa where a poll shows that jojoni ernst is actually

ahead -- >> brennan: that poll suggests that the shy trump voter is emerging, that actually some women are returning to thú republican fold who were there in 2016, and may not have been able to say it publicly in a poll or to their friends. look, joe biden can win without iowa, there is no doubt -- >> but it is sending a message, toe. >> brennan: right. may be about other places. is that a canary in a coal mine or an outlier. >> two other women we should watch, susan collins in maine, and martmartha mcsally -- >> wasn't martha mcsally trying to distance himself? >> she was, but then she was seen at a few president trump rallies -- >> brennan: there were a few bear hugs. >> and the reason that is important is this is about

this election and also about future elections, and whether the party of donald trump can win not only in states that are more like the america of old, but in states that are growing, becoming more educated and more diverse. arizona will be so interesting. if donald trump is able to win in that arena, it suggests he can compete in a place that has a much more dynamic elect trait. if he loses, that means a long-time republican state is now turning blue. >> brennan: ronna mcdaniel focuses a lot on pol policy in her messaging and to reach suburban women. what she talks about is not what the president is talking about on the campaign trail when he says he is trying to appeal to suburban voters. >> he seemsz seem seems to be sg dog whistles, saying vote for me because i'm keeping you safe.

safe from what? cindy mccain said, i'm asking women to step over the line with me and join me. she is a long-time biden friend, but she is a a well-known republican. >> brennan: we just talked about this with jeh johnson, but there is so much scrutiny in this election and concerns about foreign influence. i know you focused on this for 60 minutes. the former head of national intelligence dan coats, who has never done a television interview, called this the super bowl because of foreign interference with china, russichinaand russia. they want to scare us. and yet we have the most powerful government in the world. we have incredible people trying to thwart those attacks. but we are told don't worry about that. they're on track for it. and the other "x" factor

is that some sort of violence rings out, and i think that is something we'll be watching. >> we'll be watching that and bringing you the latest. we'll be right back. you can feel confident th fidelity, that the only direction you're moving is forward. seeing what people left behind in the attic. well, saving on homeowners insurance with geico's help was pretty fun too. ahhhh, it's a tiny dancer. they left a ton of stuff up here. welp, enjoy your house.

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>> brennan: that's it for us today. thank you all for watching. we will all see you on tuesday. and if you have not voted yet, it is not too late. for "face the nation," i'm margaret brennan. ♪ captioning sponsored by cbs captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

♪ closing -- president trump in a fight to the finish. >> this doesn't seem like someone who is going to come in second. >> it's time for donald trump to pack his bags and go home. >> polls show a tightening race, early voting still smashing records across the country. also, dr. fauci's new warning about a whole lot of hurt had ahead. tensions flare, president noting this incident on a texas highway. >> did anybody see the picture of the crazy bus driving down the highway, surrounded -- speak to voters about their , w- choices. and plus, a reality check at the border, howpresident trump's immigration policies are affecting families and children. our exclusive with