good morning to you, this is mosaic. will come. it is always a privilege to host mosaic on behalf of my cohost. there is a passage of scripture in the 133rd psalms that says how wonderful and beautiful it is for the brothers to dwell in unity or harmony.

of course, the contemporary translations say brothers and sisters. for our purpose of our theme, we are going to stay with brothers. i have had the privilege of rolling to this group brothers two brothers and i will be coming back and going back. when i asked them that i would like them to have a representative from mosaic to be on the program, they almost unanimously recommended reginald liles, welcome reginald. great to have you, thank you for taking the time to be here this morning. one of the things before we get brothers to brothers, i always like my audience to know who you are. share a little bit about what your experiences have been. >> i am raised in north oakland. although i lived in other places in the city of oakland. i am a member of our in temple baptist church. i have been there for 40 years. i was a chairman of the deacon boyle at one time. i'm a servant and believer. i teach sunday school class ix,

it's an adult class. maybe 35 or 40 people attend each sunday. we really tried to make the word become alive in our lives and context. and i also teach old testament. old testament one and two with leadership institute that was founded by dr. jr smith senior. i am a graduate of san francisco state. and high school and oakland tech. i am married to dolores gibson miles, the flower of berkeley. >> what you are going to be looking at this. >> yes. we live in marin county. i was in law enforcement for 30 years. i started on the berkeley police department for 20 years

and came over to novato as a captain and deputy chief. i still live in novato. >> i told you earlier i did not know you have the police background of law enforcement. i was at a gym one day. they said their church would do a lot of work. reginald liles in the liaison. they said that he is a police officer. i said i didn't know that. they said yes, he's had a lot of experience with law enforcement and they had a great reputation for. >> i always believed in the matthew five that said blessed are the peacemakers for they should be children of god. i always wanted to be a peacemaker as opposed to a peacekeeper. anybody can keep the peace if you have enough power, weapons and authority. the police maker has to listen

and understand all factions, and try to navigate and create a peaceful solution where everybody is affirmed. everybody is left holes. >> i like that concept. we know there has been a lot of tension in our communities with police. i am sure you have to walk that line at times. >> i have been one of their fierce critics. i love cops. but i have to be honest, and this last 20 or 25 years, they have walked away from their ethical positioning. not all of them. there is a percentage there that have walked away from the ethical understanding of who and what they are in our society and community. we have mario words and eric gardner, ferlando castillo and it is just wrong.

>> you are speaking from experience. that makes the difference. >> not have the some of them are not happy. the truth is the limit. they have to get back to six. >> the truth sets us free. >> mario woods five 614 120 pounds homeless with a pen knife and nine officers stopping. they are all shooting. >> we will come back to brothers to brothers. i'm glad we had this introduction of what you do and who you are. thank you for being with us. please join us in our next segment with reginald liles. brothers to brothers and some of the work he is doing.

welcome back to mosaic. we have been speaking to reginald liles and you heard some of his great background and experience. one of the reasons i invited him is to talk about brothers to brothers. tell us a little bit about brothers to brothers. >> brothers to brothers has been going on for 20+ years. it emanated or started from a general file by the name of

herbert lofton. who was trying to bring african- american men together and focusing on bible study and navigating life. it started with two or three friends that he no that attended church with him and he has grown to now we will have a session every tuesday night. it may be 65 or 70 men that come. we have seventh-day adventists, we have baptist, a large group of catholic. we have muslims and we have people who are agnostic etc. >> and you have a methodist now. >> and then we have folk who

have been very accomplished in their careers. we had the president peralta jenny college districts, we have had presidents of colleges and former mayor's and city council persons lawyers businessmen, developers. >> one of the things i found interesting is my first time they said they wanted two things to be mentioned. your tiled and denomination. so you don't get in the way of -- >> we have to leave all that out the door. expects everyone. we have to listen and that is what we are working hard on, forcing ourselves and sometimes it has to be forced to hear

what your brother is saying and we have used a platform studying the scriptures. we read the bible from genesis to revelation's and start over again. >> how many times have you gone through the bible? >> i have been there i would say 10+ years at least four times. sometimes we get maybe three or four versus and then people raise their hand and have a question or they want to expound on the passage. from that exchange, we believe that what needs to come out and needs to be heard is heard >> and you mentioned earlier you teach the evil sculptures old testament live at. some people would say why not the new testament, why not the gospels, why not being the primary choice. some people say it is so complex difficult and challenging. >> it is in some places.

it is important that we understand we who follow jesus christ need to understand that jesus christ wasn't a christian. he didn't read paul matthews mark or luke, that he was trying to reflect on the profits and the law and he was trying to say i think this is how you have been taught. i want to reveal another way of looking at this in the context of where you are and where you are living now. this is not to be a word from god is exclusionary but inclusive. i think we understand that and then the attributes of christ, the christology of christ, then i believe we can understand how we should live.

what was jesus talking about when he was quoting isaiah? what was this elijah moment when he was running away from the profits, what was that all about, do we have the same situations here? i don't think you can understand new testament scriptures unless you understand what they are reflecting off of, how they are evolving off of that. they are echoing off of what they know what they have been taught and launching out into a new way of applying it to their lives. >> without the to:the fruits, you need that history. >> you sound like a rapper. >> that is pretty good. without the roots you don't get the fruits. >> we could understand, we should call of the old testament it should be called the tanakh.

we should understand it as such. we should understand who those people were. they were african asiatic people. we should embrace that and understand that. then, apply that evolution and how the scriptures evolved through time to the day and how we are evolving. i don't believe god has stopped reviewing godself. >> one of the themes is god is still speaking. i like that, god is still speaking. i notice in the two times i have come that each individual was able to speak and you say listen it's also some skills he developed. i didn't say anything wrong to say that. >> we don't allow that and we also don't allow arguments. we can have an exchange. you can have a person saying i believe it's this, this is how

i heard it. and another person said i've heard this. but we don't have the direct back-and-forth argument or debate. >> why is that, too much conflict? >> people's feelings get hurt and we are not there to trample on anyone's feelings. we are there to open up their mind. we believe in the renewing of the mind. i have heard often times that folks would say i never heard it like that before. well -- that's fine. learning can be a struggle and takes courage. you have to watch out on things that you don't know and see if it is -- we praise for the presence of the holy spirit. we believe that the holy spirit is an entity and agent here with us.

>> you also pray for others. we want to come back to another segment here. it is so inspiring. we need to take a break and will come right back. please join us with reginald liles, brothers to brothers.

is original mentioned earlier that brothers from all backgrounds who come one of the persons who come is an author and he happens to have the authors book. it will be good to lift him up and tell us who he is. >> his name is ronald cole. he is reverend ronald cole. his book is paying attention. the inspirational journey. ronald cole is a dear friend. i think we get one another when we the third or fourth grade is

a phenomenal minister of god and servant of god. we both serve under jacqueline thompson, a senior pastor to allen temple. this is a great book, a great read for men to see how god has used an individual. this gentleman is a very uncommon man but writes for the common man. >> why brothers, why men, why that emphasis? >> we that is one of the struggling issues of our growth. i have heard folks say well we need time when we can be alone to talk and etc. i hope that we can evolve into having men and women.

at this point, that is where it is. when we have our retreats, and we do have a retreat every year, we have brought in dr. jacqueline thompson presented in front of us. and then reverend dr. pope is also presented and she and dr. thompson did a session for us together. >> i don't see it as sexist by any means. i see you in the some things to address women in certain groups. that's where i see it. >> i think you are right about that. i think we need to have a time where we come together. we will see what happens. we will follow the holy spirit to see what happens.

i can take it either way. >> as i mentioned earlier, the contemporary translations say brothers and sisters in harmony and unity. that is the ultimate. >> if the bible was written by women, it will probably be a whole lot different. there are a lot of verses that would not be in there. your husband submitting and all, all of that language -- >> and would be silent. that was horrendous. >> i was in a seminary and heard a story about howard thurman, who was reading the scripture to his grandmother. no formal education. where he got to the point where it said women shouldn't be silent in church. his grandmother said don't read that part.

>> also, the part about servants being obedient to your masters. the grandmother said no, i don't want to hear that either. >> which is a way of controlling people. i think the gospel is liberating. i believe in a liberation theology. that is the context in which i come. is what i tried to promulgate. >> one of the interesting discussions with that we talked about the text in the context in people's lives. some people wanted to talk more about the context of people's lives. they had a long discussion before we got into bible study. some people said we are here for the text. what are your thoughts on that? >> it has to be a combination. i don't think that literalists studying the text without context, without making some hard political applications, the text will serve us. the bible is not a history lesson. when it is looked at like that, that allows us to not think that we have to act out what the bible is asking us

to act. it is almost apart from us. it is outside of us. the word of god is supposed to be in us. we are supposed to apply our lives, actions and behaviors based on the truths and the heroes within the bible. if a hero does something that is not godly, we are not to replicate it because it's in the bible. the text has to be challenged. it has to be wrestled with within the confines of where we are living. i don't believe god would come to me and speak to me in the mandarin language. i don't understand that. god will speak to me in the language and context in which i understand and use me where god would want me to be.

>> the bible is alive because 3000+ years ago speak to the people that and it still speaks to us now. >> i want to clean this up. god does speak to folks who speak mandarin. >> we have one more segment. thank you for all that you have shared. please join us in the last segment with reginald liles. we speak about scripture and how important it is to our lives.

we are so grateful for reginald liles as we are speaking about the bible and the scripture. we want to say in these last few minutes how does that word speak to us in our day and time? >> we are living in difficult times. we have a person in the white house who is antithetical, as far as i am concerned, and mean- spirited and causing a lot of pain. the scripture will educate us on folks like that and tell us not to give up hope or faith, that god is still in the blessing business. and that these better times are on the horizon. >> what about those who consider

evangelical who overwhelmingly support the president? >> i don't know how you can support someone who lies and has the horrible moral lifestyle that this one has. i pray for my evangelical brothers that they would wake up because they are not supposed to follow that type of leadership. >> that's pretty provocative and challenging. i don't censor anyone who comes on my shelf. i want everyone to hear what you said. i appreciate your thoughts. >> if you're following someone who can separate babies from others, something is wrong with your application of jesus christ and his love for his

people. >> how would you apply it in terms of seeing the scripture in light of that. you quote scripture quite well. what are some of the scriptures that fact that justice against injustice? >> oh man, you know what is good . do justice mercy and walk on you before oh god. micah 64, he is not doing justice. he is in oligarch and mean- spirited and he has caused more pain than not. >> what do you think michael put justice first before love and before humility? >> i believe justice is before love. justice is the foundation in which the house of lords is constructed upon. if no justice exists, you can

love no person. that is why i understand the song what love has got to do with it. >> i don't know how anybody can disagree with that. i understand why people welcomes, or i should say, asked you to be the spokesperson of brothers to brothers. thank you, reginald. i'll see you again soon. i'm going to be brothers to brothers two. >>, and have a meal with us. >> i will. thank you for being with us, i am ron swisher. see you next month.

it is time to put away the harsh rhetoric, lower the temperature, see each other again, listen to each other again. >> president-elect joe biden's message to the nation as thousands separate and celebrate sparking parties and parades. >> native kamala harris history becoming the first woman to hold the office of vice president and how her hometown of oakland is celebrating. san francisco was in party mood last night as biden supporters breathing a sigh of relief as hopes rise in a new direction for the country.>> can wing it is sunday>> can wing it is sunday, november 8