>> brennan: welcome back to "face the nation." we're continuing our conversation with ron klain. i want to switch gears to talk about this massive hacking of the federal government and private entities. the transition team has had some level of briefing on this. is there any doubt that russia was behind it? >> to disclose this information, in terms of who gets the blame -- we should be hearing a clear and unambiguous allocation of responsibility from the white house, from the intelligence community. they're the people in charge. they are the ones who should be making those messages and delivering the ascertainment of

responsibility. instead of we've heard a different message from the white house, a different message from the president's twitter feed. in terms of publicly communicating the position of our government, that has to come from the current government. and it should be coming in a clear and unambiguous voice. >> brennan: the president-elect was pretty clear when he spoke to stephen colbert, and he said they'll face financial repercussions for what they did. is that no longer the case? he no longer believes it is russia? >> no. what i'm saying is that the official statements about who is responsible for this particular attack needs to come from the administration in a clear and unambiguous way. what the president-elect has also said, clearly, margaret, that those who are responsible are going to face consequences for it. and he is going to take steps as president to degrade the capacity of foreign actors to launch

these kinds of attacks on our country. >> brennan: so senator mitt romney said this morning that the russians potentially have the ability to target u.s. facilities and cripple the u.s. economy. is that your understanding of what these hackers have the ability to do right now, and are sanctions as far as the president-elect is willing to go? >> i think there is a lot of uncertainty still about what the purpose of these attacks were. were they espionage-oriented? were they designed to inflict damage on us? i agree with senator romney on the purpose of the foreign actors. we're looking forward to learning more about them. i think in terms of the measures that a biden administration would take in response to an attack like this, i think -- i want to be very clear: it is not just sanctions, it is also steps and things we could do to degrade the capacity of foreign actors to repeat this sort of attack or engage in even

more dangerous attacks. and now, margaret, i've lost you again. the connection has been severed once again. >> brennan: all right. just when i was going to ask you a followup there. ron klain, thank you very much for joining us. i'm sorry to our viewers for the continued technical problems on that. we're lucky because we do have our next guest here. and that is on the topic of covid-19. you all may remember that when president trump was diagnosed with covid-19 back in the fall, he was treated with a therapeutic antibody made by a company, regeneron. eli lilly has a similar drug. this morning we're joined by their chairman and c.e.o. david ricks, and he is in indianapolis. good morning to you. >> good morning, margaret. >> brennan: we wanted to talk to you about your treatment with monoclonal antibodies because we

learned this week that while taxpayers have purchased about a billion dollars of it to treat patients, only a fraction of it is actually been used. and we're in the throes of a crisis. why isn't this being prescribed more? >> well, it is disappointing news that we heard as well. i can tell you that across the country, we've shipped and distributed broadly the monoclonal antibody from lilly. it reduces of risk of hospitalization by about 70%. it is important that those eligible talk to their doctor about getting this therapy. what we have seen, though, is differences in how different states and different hospital systems have chosen to act. some really good cases, where it is quite easy, when your doctor recommends it, to get the infusion, it takes about two hours. and we've seen cases where there has been little or no action. so it is important that people know to ask their doctor if they're a

candidate for this therapy. >> brennan: when you say infusion, you mean somebody has to go and get hooked up to an i.v. to treat it? >> correct. >> brennan: i want to followup to something you just said because it is similar to what the trump administration has said over the course of this week, which seems to put the onus on the patient to tell their doctor what to prescribe them. that's not usually the doctor-patient relationship. if we accept that is the premise and it is our job to tell the doctor to prescribe us, how soon are tey supposed to ask for it? >> well, i'm not suggesting it is only the patient's responsibility, so let me come back to that. the drug is indicated in the first 10 days after a positive p.c.r. test, and within that 10-day period you could receive the infusion, and it has been shown to reduce symptoms, reduce the viral load, and keep people out of the hospital. but we're also communicating with hospital systems and states. because this is an

emergency-use authorization, unlike other approvals for drugs, as a manufacturer, it is not our role to go promote this. so we're working through government channels to do that. as i said, it is quite variable. there are some great examples, but there are other areas where it doesn't seem to be available when it actually is. >> brennan: and it is sitting on the shelves, because "operation warped speed" said there are about 65,000 doses that go out each week. and 25% are actually being used. so if the states aren't using, or certain states aren't using it, should the federal government claw it back and give it to those who are actually using it? >> every week we're shipping more. so the way it is working now, we're being directed by the "operation warped speed" team to distribute through a third-party distributor to those facilities that are using it. so we're replenishing those supplies now. there are many good examples in houston and the state of maryland, and

they have done a great job. in south dakota, they've distributed enormous quantity of what they've received. so we're acting at the government's direction here and supplies are bee being replenished. rather, what we would like hospitals to do is use what was sent. set up a clinic where covid-19 patients can use this. this is not a time to leave that important tool on the shelf. this is a time to put it to work against the patients who are suffering. >> brennan: but what you're hinting at there is one of the challenges we're seeing again and again is a disconnect between what the federal government is delivering and what the states do when they receive it. and we know hospitals are overwhelmed. so this is a big public health policy issue that needs to be addressed. i'm wondering if you think what you're seeing happen with therapeutics is an indicator of what is going to happen with the

vaccine? are states also not going to be able to distribute it? >> i'm not an expert in that. i can say this is a complicated problem that needs focus and attention from governors and hospital system executives. that seems similar to the vaccination challenge. we have about a million doses we'll have produced this year. getting those into the hands of hospitals by mid-january. on the vaccine side, we need hundreds of millions administered. we're doing something new for the first time. it is not simple. i needs focus and attention. and from the hospital on up. >> brennan: absolutely. and at the time of a crisis, quick action. are you going to require your own workforce to get a vaccination? >> we've discussed this. i don't think there is going to be a problem for a science-based company like e eli lilly to get vaccinated. it is not our time yet. it is important for the

frontline workers and the elderly to receive the vaccine first. we totally support that. if they can't operate, patients can receive those medicine. so we're working with the states to see where in the priority we fall. and we'll do a strong evaluation of the vaccination, and most people who work at eli lilly will be get vaccinated. it is an emergency-use authorization. if an employee of ours is concerned, we respect that concern. >> brennan: good luck to you. thank you for your time. >> thank you. >> brennan: and we'll be right back to talk about right back to talk about that massive cyber attack. how many days... in march?

[voice of male narrator] some questions made us cry. [somber choir singing begins] [voice of kobe bryant] you know, we've been through our ups and been through our downs. [voice of kobe bryant] the most important part is that we all stay together throughout. [crowd cheering] [voice of male narrator] so, why do we still have strength to continue? [voice of female protester] i believe in our power. [crowd chants back] i believe in our power. [voice of ruth bader ginsburg] think about how you would like the world to be for your daughters and granddaughters. [voice of chadwick boseman] remember the struggles along the way are only meant to shape you for your purpose. [voice of male narrator] why is it that this year showed us its worst, and we still found ways to triumph? [music begins to build] [voice of male narrator] until we get to every answer ... ...we're still searching.

our great street, huge yard. there is a bit of an issue with our neighbors fencing. neighbor 1: allez! (sound from wind chimes) neighbor 2: (laughing) at least geico makes bundling our home and car insurance easy. which helps us save even more. neighbor 2: hey, sarah, hey, peter! neighbor 1: touché. neighbor 2: ahhh! neighbor 1: pret! neighbor 2: en garde! for bundling made easy, go to geico.com >> brennan: and we are learning more about what may be the wor worst cyber attack in history. it has affected many organizations, including many agencies.

kevin mandia is the c.e.o. of fireeye. he company was the first one to discover that this massive breach happened. good morning to you. >> margaret, good morning to you. >> brennan: the trump administration described this as an on-going attack and possess great risk to the federal government, to state governments, to private institutions and critical infrastructure. it went undetected for nearly nine months. how should the public understand how significant is it? >> right. well, there are a lot of ways to look at this intrusion. first and foremost, it is different than other ones that we commonly respond to. we respond to over a thousand breaches a year. what separates this is who did it, how they did it, and what they did when they got in. and i'll get to the who probably last. but when you look at the how, margaret, that's what makes this totally unique. this was not a drive-by shooting on the information highway.

this was a sniper round from somebody a mile away from your house. this was special operations, and it was going to take special operations to detect this breach. so the -- so how they did it was in a way that was utterly clandestine, very difficult to tell, and, quite frankly, it was a back door into the american supply chain that separates this from thousands of other cases that we've worked with throughout our careers. >> brennan: does it go back further than march? how long have hackers been inside the system? >> well, so right now what we've observed with this latest campaign -- first i think this threat actor wasn't a one and done. what i mean by that is i think these are folks we've responded to in the '90s, in the early 2000s. it is a continuing game in cyber space. there is a time and our life where the domains we had espionage in or the domains where we had

combat in are land, sea, air, and then space, and now we have cyber. this is just one campaign in a long battle in cyber space. but this campaign specifically has the earliest evidences of being designed in october of 2019, when code was changed in the solar winds orion platform, but it was an innocuous code, it was not a back door. then sometime in march, the operators behind this attack did put malicious code into the supply chain, injected it in there, and that is the back door that impacted everybody. i think, margaret, it is important to note -- everybody says this is potentially the biggest intrusion in our history. the reality is, the blast radius for this -- i kind of explain it with a funnel. it is true that over 300,000 companies use solar winds, but you come down from that total number, down to about

18,000 or so companies that actually had the back door or malicious code on a network. and then you come down to the next part, and it is probably only about 50 organizations or companies -- sn that zone -- that is generally in pacted by th impace threat. >> brennan: attribution, the secretary of state said it is russia. a republican senator who heads the intelligence committee says it is increasingly clear this is russian intelligence. do you agree this is russia, and what evidence do you base that on? >> i think that is definitely a nation behind this. you just heard me say that theattack started with a dry-run in october of 2019. this wasn't a ransomware attack. kind of like a brick through your window, and it is pretty obvious, hey, they broke in with a brick through the window and then they stole your jewels. this is more like a case where somebody came in through a trapped door in your basement, that you

never knew about, put on an in visibility cloak, and you got the sense, but you weren't even sure how -- >> brennan: but you know better than anyone there are only a very few number of nation states capable of what you are describing in terms of skill. russian intelligence, specifically the f.d.r. has been pointed out by the officials. do you think this is who did this? >> i think it is an attack consistent with that. the amount of resources inside the government, inside the private sector and te reach that we have, we can speculate it or we can do some more work and put a neon sign on the building of the folks who did this. and i'm very con fep confident s we continue the investigation, as more people learn the tools, tactics, and procedures of this attack, we're going to bring it back and get attribution, not 92% right, but 100%. let's just get it right so

we can proportionately respond, period. >> brennan: it may take time to do that, but i press you on attribution, obviously if you want to stop it from happening again, you have to identify who did it in the first place. the president kind of muddied those waters when he said it may be china, and downplayed the idea it was russia. i'm not asking you to weigh in or politics, but how do you stop this from happening again? and was it -- >> clearly -- >> brennan: do you have to specifically target one country? how do you do this? >> well, i think you have doctrine. we have doctrine for things like the use of chemical weapons. you saw what happened when somebody used chemical weapons in syria, there was retaliation. folks have to know the rules of the game. the problem in cyber you we're not doing the work to publish the doctrine. we're the ones in the glass house. these attacks will continue to escalate and get worse if we do

nothing. just as a cybersecurity professional, i recognize if you don't communicate the rules of the game, here is the doctrine, and here is the penalty when you violate it. we're going to see the borders continue to be pushed out in cyber attacks to the point of when do we finally do the work? when it already got so bad we have no choice but to respond? but like you said, it starts with doctrine. with doctrine, you have to get at putian right -- attributn right. >> brennan: kevin mandia, thank you very much for your "insight." we'll be bak back in a moment with a look at the economy.

>> brennan: we go now to the president and c.e.o. of the federal reserve bank of san francisco, mary daly, good morning to you. >> good morning, margar. thank you so much for having me. >> brennan: i would love for you to just give us the bottom line here. we know congress has pumped in $4 trillion into the economy to help with the pandemic. they're about to possibly pass $900 billion in aid. arwill all of this make a

specific difference in propping up the economy? >> absolutely. this support is absolutely beneficial. when e think about where we started in march and where we are now, it is remarkable that the me has done so well. that speaks to the resiliency of the american people, and the significant support that the federal reserve and congress has taken to ensure that the bridge over coronavirus is both strong enough and long enough to get americans through this. >> brennan: in this $900 billion emerging deal, it looks like congress are not provide help to state and local governments in terms of financial support. what impact do you think that will have on the job market going into 2021? >> when i think of state and local governments and state and local communities, these are just a community of people. and so the direct support to individuals, to households, to businesses in those communities really does help state and local governments because they don't have to provide as much for their

citizens. their citizens are getting the income support they need. and, importantly, businesses are getting the loans and funding that they need so they can keep people employed. so i'm bullish on the job market, once we get fully through coronavirus, but we're not there yet. so our future is bright, but we've got some challenging months ahead of us as we continue to battle coronavirus. >> brennan: so it sounds like you are projecting job cuts at the state and local government levels in the months to come? >> so far i'm not seeing evidence that there will be job cuts. remember that many of the services that the state modalities provide are state services and social services, and right now we really need those services. what i'm feeling is that some cuts are being discussed, but right now we haven't heard of people cuts yet, not in the areas that i serve. >> brennan: yes. last issue on politics, which i know you're an

a-political substitution, but the fed itself was at the heart o heart of the standof between republicans and democrats. and that hurtle seems to have been overcome late last night. it appears that the deal would allow them to set it up without congressional approval, but block it from replicating programs, like it set up in the spring. is the bottom line here for the american people at home, is the fed affected by this? is you still respond in an emergency? or do you feel like your hands are still tied? >> i'm aware of those conversations. i'm not party to those conversations. but let me tell you what is really important: we have powerful tools and we're prepared to fully use those tools to support the american people. so for all of your listeners, we are prepared to conduct monetary policy, to be the lender of last resort. and i feel ready and prepared to do just that. >> brennan: and this new

provision wouldn't change that? >> again, i'm not aware of the specifics of that. i don't think they've laid out the specifics yet. i believe completely that congress, the federal reserve, the treasury secretary, the american people really want us to be able to deploy our full tools to the best of their benefit. these are emergency tools. we only bring them out in times of crisis and then we put them back away. that's what we're prepared to do in the future and continuing to do. >> brennan: you're a labor economist. you know a lot about jobs. in this latest report we got, it looked like there was improvement. but then when you look inside the numbers, it shows there are a lot of people who have simply given up looking for work. that seems particularly acute among women. why do you think that is? >> women are really in a bind. many women still are the primary care-givers in their homes. and we have home-schooling now, so women are being forced to make this really hard tradeoff and return to home, give up their careers, give up their

jobs, in order to make sure that their children are well-cared for and can get the schooling and education they need. parenting is also essential work, and these women are taking on that essential responsibility because they don't have the normal school care or child care in the wake of covid and coronavirus. we really are going to have to come together to get past covid, and think about how to get these women back in the workforce, to do both their child care and parenting and their vital work. >> brennan: is this long-term damage to women? >> it could be if we don't get focused on what do we do to get out of this? i think this is a good time to think about national child care policies, the understanding that we shouldn't really force people to make tradeoffs between family and work. we should think of work-life integration. how do we do all of the

things that are important to us? >> brennan: and that's a conversation we will have to continue having. thank you, mary daly. we'll leave it there for now. we'll be right back. >> thank you. with sofi and steve. and grandma eve. with sweatpants. house plants. and a 3pm happy dance. ♪ with those who keep the world turning. and those who keep the children learning. ♪ with pizza buying. and reindeer flying. and just a little joyful crying. with all your family. and all your friends. first bites. and happy ends. it's all essential. in every way. and together. it makes a holiday. let's end the year with joy, with meaning, with what matters.

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>> brennan: that's it >> brennan: that's it for us today. thank you for watching. we all wish you a merry christmas and a happy and healthy holiday season. until next week, for "face the nation," i'm margaret brennan. ♪ captioning sponsored by cbs captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org .

a new pandemic life line for struggling america. congress finalizes a long awaited stimulus bill with a midnight deadline looming. a second vaccine shipped out, distributed by moderna, and there were short falls. >> record rampage, hospitalizations and deaths surge across america, california consider s rationing health car. and britain warns of a fast spreading new strain. >> we cannot continue with christmas as pland.