watch cbs in bay area with the kpix 5 news app. good morning and welcome to mosaic. i am honored to be your hosted this morning. we live in a part of country that encourages us to live life to the fullest and to explore the pursuit of happiness and yet among us we have many people who are suffering and in fact decide to take their own lives because they struggle with life itself. with us this morning is steve meyer who is the executive director to help us have a difficult but important conversation about suicide.

>> it's an honor. >> why do people kill themselves ? >> they are in pain. they are intolerable pain of one kind or another. and in the united states, we have the luxury that is primarily emotional pain. in other countries, it may be economic it may be physical pain because the health system has collapsed. it may have to do a shame. in the united states we have those forms of pain. and now, they would said rather be dead than homeless. they decide to end their lives and we have shame. we have children who are bullied. and who die of shame. but primarily this is emotional pain and that is what we have

come to have to grapple with. and we don't know much about emotional pain. we don't have trouble dealing with that we don't recognize it. >> so, when you say that we have difficulty with that i think pretty much every suicide prevention organization has a list of signs that people need to pay attention to for themselves and loved ones. it may lead to suicide. so what are some of those indications that people should pay attention to for themselves and also what they know. >> and, and, this person says i'm thinking of killing myself. and, frequently people don't say or pay any attention to them. or no, don't do that, let's go out. they dismissed it.

the second kind of person gets that suicide is a very big decision they don't feel capable of making that decision and they leave it up to the owners. so they will throw on a hand. nobody will miss me if i'm dead. when i'm dead, give my animals away. going to be gone soon. all sorts of hints that they may be dead soon. in the third person does the same thing. they want the universe to tell them what to do. but they don't say anything. they acted up. so, the third person may change how they death. and they may start giving away their belongings of their pets. and, something that they show.

and the fourth person takes risks. they want the universe to tell them when. so, they drive dangerously they use substances dangerously. they have unprotected sex. they get involved in peer violence. and their friends say that they could see themselves spiraling down. one out of every five suicides is a person who has been dead or who has otherwise indicated without saying anything and as a culture, we are very squeamish about asking a person if they are thinking of suicide. >> why do you think that that is? why are we reticent to just come out and ask that question? >> i think that it's because we have a method that if you ask a person if they are suicidal, it will put the idea into their

head. they will die and it will be your fault. in fact, there are studies from columbia university that so it is impossible to put that idea into somebody's head. either it is there or it is not. so, the people who are in pain you can ask them, are you feeling suicidal and, for them it will be a release and a gift that you have recognized this shameful secret that they've had and that you are prepared to help them out. >> wonderful. we are going to take a quick break and come back to continue this vital and important, although difficult conversation. please join us back here in just one moment.

welcome back to mosaic. i'm honored to be your host. thank you for returning to us about suicide with ease meyer who is the executive director. they were talking before the break about the ways that people can talk with a loved one who

they think may be contemplating suicide and saying to them, are you thinking of ending your own life or killing yourself or committing suicide. what do you say to people who will say, if somebody is really determined to end their own life, there isn't anything that you can do otherwise. >> almost everyone is ambivalent. and the ambivalence ranges on a spectrum from 99% of the person who wants to do it but 1% of them doesn't. to half and half to even less than that. now, what you are trying to do is go for the part of the person that thinks that there may be some positive reasons to live. that's the whole thing that the movement is about.

somewhere deep down there is a reason to live. and the cow the way that you find it is, curiously enough, to ask the question, how do you plan to kill yourself before you ask anything else? >> and why can't you >> you want to make the person safe. if you go into why you are killing yourself, they could die in front of you. the other reason you want to make them say that is one of the greatest dangerous factors is a person who has easy access to a way to kill themselves. if you can make the person's environment safer, you make the part of them that wants to

live, grow. more easily. >> what you are saying is it's very important to be curious. and in that way, to be unafraid and take a leap of faith to engage that person and then to also, in some ways see yourself as someone who can cultivate their sense of what it means to be alive and to enjoy life, if i can use that time in the midst of somebody who is considering suicide. is that part of what humanly we need to pay attention to? >> inside of everyone, there is a dream. if you can find the dream, find the belief, find the one thing that makes them stronger than their own bodies, you can pull them through. as long as you can make their

surroundings safe. so, the first thing to do is to try to find a way to get the surrounding people safe. and after that, you look for the diamond in the landfill i call it. you try to find what it is that you can ignite that will help them get through just this period of time. because people are suicidal in a very time-limited manner. so, what are some of the services that they provide that helps people to cultivate that part of the person that has the dream and also that makes the environment safe for them. san francisco suicide prevention has 100 volunteers who are community people. they may have been through crisis themselves. they talk on the telephone with anyone who calls in about the

crisis. i use the word talk but i think that's the wrong word. they listen. they've been taught to listen exquisitely. they let you talk. and it's probably the most talking that you've ever been able to do. and the person who finds the diamond in the landfill is actually you. and we now do it on a computer. we do it by online chat. we are about to start text and then we noticed that people who are younger don't use those we did it so we could reach a broader spectrum of people we do it in spanish and we have translators for about 110 languages. because, we know that when you get emotionally upset, the words for how you feel are in your first language.

>> yes, of course. you mentioned that your volunteers are exquisitely trained to listen. it seems to me that if somebody is considering suicide that the isolation can be so deep that it is important to hear a voice in the other end. so it seems to me that the curiosity and the engagement, the talking is so important for the person on the other end of the line to know that not just that they are being listened to but they are heard and one of the ways we know we've been heard is that you have engagement with the other person talking >> yes, you have a person who is engaged in talking but they are also asking questions. when the person says i'm in pain, we are culturally programmed to back away from it.

here is somebody that when you say i'm in pain comes forward and says can't describe it to me. when does it happen? how does that happen? what makes it better? and by the end of the phone call, or the text you come up with the safety plan where you pick these things that you know as a person who is in pain may make you feel better and you write them down and you keep them with you at all times. and when the pain hits you again. you start through them. get a cup of coffee. watch a certain television show. call a relative that you like. find an animal. i'm a strong believer in animals. find an animal, sit and talk to the animal. if none of those work then you call a hotline again. somebody who will be there.

>> thank you so much. we are going to take a quick break. it will be right back.

welcome back to mosaic. i'm honored to be her hosted this morning in the midst of an important conversation about suicide with ease my head the executive director. eve, the northern california particular but many other urban areas are engaged in a very vital conversation about choosing when one ends one's life and it's about the quality

of their life and their ability to choose when one's life ends. and that has spurred lots and lots of organizations that provide advocacy, education, and assistance. i'm wondering how you think about that particular issue, where we are and what seems to be a stimulation to develop different kinds of vocabulary and concepts to understand choosing to end one's life and how one goes about doing that. what do you think about that conversation? >> as a profession, what we think about it is. if you are not allowed to talk about suicide, when you are in physical pain, or when you see a terminal illness, about to end your life, then, you are a

second-class person to the one who is an emotional pain. that shouldn't happen. you have just as much of a right to talk about your pain and your thoughts about your life. in states where they have legalized timeline terminal eyes illness suicide you've been very few of those to the site. the freedom to think about it has meant more than the actual data itself. >> interesting. >> the way that knowing that you can do it takes away your fears of what will happen. and it gives you control over your life. >> said is a sense of control create its own prevention? >> it appears to. people who know that they can legally end their lives if they

are terminally ill usually do not do it. >> and this conversation really easily hinges upon those issues on theology, faith, suicide. can you talk a little bit about that history and that interaction? >> we have always had an interesting relationship with the faith community. at one point, so many people are dying that the faith community in almost every form, jewish and christian declared it a sin and what is very people with their families. you know, they had shame for the families. they had shame for the person. then they developed a compromise about that century which said, if you died under the influence of an irresistible force you could be buried with your family. what was the force?

it was mental illness. they become welded to one another even in situations where they are not, in fact, connected. the mental illness the mental health system is forced to deal with people who are suicidal even though they may not be suicidal because they are mentally ill. it is a curious way that we say, if you are suicidal, you must be mentally ill. that doesn't necessarily follow because you can be in some sort of crisis because of something that has happened to you in your life. so, we have worked out this kind of relationship but we haven't worked out how we are

going to comfort people. how we are going to comfort families and because we leave that shame there, people do not get to talk nearly as much as they need to cut other people. that's why, if somebody goes to a crisis, it's extremely important. they will save another person. >> we are going to take a quick break. we will return in just a moment here on mosaic.

i am tracking our mild weather for the bay area. welcome back. we are honored to be your host. thank you for returning to this vital come pollination. the executive director here. in today's world, what are some of the demographic populations that we need to pay attention to when it comes to understanding suicide more deeply? >> a population that we were really worried about an older men, particularly veterans and young men who are currently in the military. we are finding high suicide rates higher than expected and having to direct programs

towards them. and, the theory that is behind what the increased rate is is that they have access to a lethal weapon at all times. >> so do most of them were aging veterans actually still own firearms? they had taken them with them after they've been in combat. they have kept them around. when a crisis happens, they access to the means of ending your life is something that is crucial. it is the difference between it happening and not happening. and when survey has a gun around that's a dangerous situation. >> so, we live in a country

that has a volunteer military. and for the most part, most of the population doesn't volunteer for the military. but we know so many people around us to have gone to the military and have returned. earlier you were saying how important it is for someone to find the dream for that life. and i'm wondering do you have some particular pointers for somebody who's been in the military and may not relate to that choice but nonetheless cared for that person but really wants to know what they can do in that particular situation. is there a particular way to approach somebody who is a returning person from the military? >> i don't think that you would approach them differently from anybody else but you would say, you are hurting.

i care. i just want to be with you and make sure you are safe. if you have something around, i will keep it for you until the crisis is over. >> in other words, you don't have to have been in the military to approach somebody who has been in the military to talk about suicide. >> pain is pain. when you have here is each of us with the life of another person. >> we have, believe it or not, just a minute left. do you have any thoughts you would like to let us know about as we complete this conversation? >> i think that all of us can care for each other. and, i think that we will now. and, people really opening themselves up to other people wanting to save them and succeeding. >> thank you so much for being here.

if you know somebody, or you yourself is contemplating suicide, please pick up the phone and call the suicide prevention hotline or any other organization in your area and please, find the dream. thank you so much for being with us. have a wonderful day.

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