captioning sponsored by cbs >> dickerson: i'm john dickerson in washington. this week on "face the nation," a surprisingly weak jobs report makes it clear we're still digging or economy out of the deep hole created by covid-19. experts were predicting a flood of new jobs in april, one million or more. when the numbers came in, they were a dismal quarter of that, just 266,000. >> biden: we knew this wouldn't be a sprint. it would be a marathon. we're still digging out of an economic collapse that cost us 22 million jobs. >> dickerson: but with some sectors of the economy desperate for new

hires -- >> our restaurants are getting busier, and we're finding it harder to find staff. >> there is definitely a glut of jobs and a lack of hands to fill positions. >> dickerson: -- why are americans still is stallstruggling to get back into it's workplace. we'll talk with commerce secretary gina raimondo and neel kashkari. and as we slowly turn the corner in the coronavirus pandemic, should public health be moving the country to move to normal more quickly. we'll talk with dr. scott gottlieb. plus, with the republican party in fresh turmoil over president trump and the big lie about the 2020 election, will believers be able to roll over the non-believers. we'll talk with illinois republican congressman adam kinzinger. and we'll hear from author michael lewis. his new book is "the prem

premonition: the pandemic story." and our salute to a special group of moms. it is all ahead on "face the nation." ♪ >> dickerson: good morning, and welcome to "face the nation." margaret is on maternity leave. the country appears to finally be turning the corner on the pandemic, and there is good news to report. one-third of american adults have been fully vaccinated. children between 12 and 16, will likely be able to receive the pfizer vaccine soon. there are drops in every way, now cases, hospitalizations, and deaths. but we're still having trouble rounding the bend with the economy. and that disappointing jobs report made for sobering headlines on saturday, and reminded us that the road to recovery is going to be a long and winding one. we're going to begin with

former f.d.a. commissioner dr. scott gottlieb. he joins us from west port, connecticut. good morning. >> doctor: good morning. >> dickerson: every time we talk, we talk about where things are. and you tell us where things are going to be. you said a few weeks ago, they should change the mask restrictions for outdoors. you think the masks should be lifted for indoors? >> doctor: covid won't disappear, we're going to have to live with it. but the result of immunity that people have required there prior infection and vaccinations, i think we can start lifting these precautions. people have to decide what their own individual risk is based on their circumstances. we have always said from a public health standpoint we would set as a me metric

maybe when we get down to 10 peopl people per 100,000 people, and we're there. probably by this week a quarter of the states will be at 5 people in 100,000. certainly outdoors we shouldn't be putting limits on gatherings anymore. we should be encouraging people to go outside. in the states where prevalence is low, and we're identifying infections, i think we can start lifting these restrictions indoors as well on a case-by-case basis. >> dickerson: one of the things we've seen in the economic numbers on friday is that people are still scared. help people understand how they should think through making their own risk calculations after more than a year of kind of stabbing at trying to get some clarity to decide how to keep themselves safe. >> doctor: look, i think part of the hesitation right now is cultural. we have spent a year

apart, and to stay away from people and wear masks. i think it will take some time to get back into the normal swing of things and get that socialization back. but if you've been vaccinated with the mrna, or the j & j, your risk of getting an asymptomatic infection that you can spread is low. so we can base our public health advice on that. there is one model that is out that says if your 65and above your risk of succumbing to covid if you were infected by it is one is 100, and now it predicts one in 20,000, if you're fully vaccinated. so the risk of substantially reducing -- you can probably conclude probably your risk from covid is comparable, and maybe less than your risk from flu in older individuals. so you can start resuming

older activity. the only risk for someone is fully vaccinated, could you have a risk you don't know about, and you still want to be careful, and you always want to be careful in those circumstances because you don't want to spread an infection. >> dickerson: if i've been vaccinated twice, even if i'm in an elderly vaccination, essentially the risk for me -- i shouldn't think about it as a new thing, but the way it would be with the regular old flu. where we are now is comparable to something we know before, in compared to the risks we would take when we operated in regular life? >> doctor: i think that is right. people get uncomfortable when you start comparing the rate of death and the risk of covid to flu, because so of some of the comparisons made in the past, but i think that is a fair assessment. if you're fully vaccinated against covid with one of

the western vaccines, your risk of having a bad outcome to covid is about comparable to flu and maybe less because the covid vaccines are more comparable than flu. the only residual concern a fully vaccinated person is are they, themselves, immuno-compromised, and you would know that. and are you going to be around people who are immuno-compromised. that's where i would exercise some caution. but outside of that, i think we can get back to doing normal things. i talked in the outset about 10 cases per 100,000, or five cases in 100,000, and we're dropping every few days. by the end of the next few weeks, most states are going to be bow about five. >> dickerson: when you look at the map of places

not having a lot of places not getting vaccinated, do you expect those may be the places where we might see some occasional flarflare-ups between now and the next big stages? >> i think that is probably right. i think we'll have to look at the data closely, how much of a decline you get in protection. we're worry about that in the fall and the winter. i think we'll have to contend with covid and have to reimplement mask ordinances, or even close some schools in certain settings. but i think we'll put public measures in place based on the spread. i think we need to start lifting these things as the situation improves, also, to demonstrate that we can do that, and that we maintain our integrity to reimplement these things when we have to. the public has to feel that they'll lift the

restrictions when things improve. that is partially what is holding back the economy. not because of the benefits, but also because they're being told they still have to wear masks and exercise precautions. in san francisco, very good testing and they don't need mask ordinances indoors anymore, and certainly not outside. >> dickerson: dr. scott gottlieb is, we really appreciate you. >> doctor: thank you. >> dickerson: we turn to jobs and the economy, and commerce secretary gina raimondo. good morning and happy mother's day. >> good morning, and happy mother's day to all of the mothers and grandmothers out there. >> dickerson: i want to start is with the jobs report. the number came in at 266,000. what do you think happened? >> i think we have a long way to go to recover from the pandemic.

it's -- there are so many americans still struggling. eight million fewer jobs than there were pre-pandemic. so, you know, we are working very hard. in fact, we had a meeting with the president on friday. and that was his direction to us, which is: we're making bold moves, but there is a long way to go. and we have to be there to help americans find jobs. >> dickerson: did he say do "x," "y," or "z" to speed this up? >> we're working with congress to get the president's job package passed and his families package. the reality is we have fallen behind with our investments in the economy, and people are still struggling. women in particular are still struggling to find affordable child care, to break down some of the barriers necessary to find a job, to access to the skills they need to get a good job. >> dickerson: women in

particular, tween three betweene and four million lost jobs -- ir shoulders because in most families women bear the pandemic more than any others. is there a particular friction with regard to women getting back into the work force, that you've seen, that makes this recovery particularly difficult for women? >> yes, absolutely. first of all, women are clustered in the industries that were hit the most, waitresses, working at hotels. and we all know that those industries were hit the hardest, so women were put out of work in greater numbers. but the reality is, as you say, women are more likely to be the caretakers, so lack of affordable child care hits women the hardest. the fact that schools were closed, and many still remain closed, hits women harder. >> dickerson: on unemployment, there are a lot of people who believe

that the unemployment relief people are getting is hurting the job market. essentially, people are keeping on unemployment instead of going to work. is there any discussion in the administration about tweaking that or anything to remove that as a barrier to jobs? >> obviously, we're monitoring that. but at this point there is nothing in the data which would suggest that that is the reason people are out of work. by the way, we have to remember that when the president moved to make this happen, this unemployment insurance has been a lifeline, a survival lifeline for so many americans. the number one reason now that people aren't going back to work is what you said, fear or they can't find child care or schools are still closed. we'll monitor it as necessary. but right now we didn't believe that is the reason people aren't going back to new york. >> dickerson: in

montana, they're getting rid of unemployment they feel people aren't going back to work. it seems that a lot of people out there think this really is an impediment -- that unemployment benefits are an impediment to getting people to go look for work. so it does seem that there is some evidence out there? >> it is certainly anecdotal evidence. and it is regional. the governors would respond to what is going on in their regional labor market. wages aren't going up. and people are still telling us the number one reason people aren't going back to work is fear, due to the virus. and more people were looking for work last month than the month before. so i am engaged with businesses constantly, listening, monitoring, but at the moment, it doesn't seem to be that that is the major impediment. >> dickerson: in conversations with businesses, one of the reasons the numbers were down this last month is

that so-called supply chain, the manufacturers couldn't get the materials needed to make what they need. how much of a worry is that to you? and how long might that delay a robust economic recovery? >> it is a significant factor. it is a significant worry. you see supply chains having been disrupted across the board. an area i'm particular focused on is the semi conductor industry. for decades, we allowed america to fall behind, and we don't produce enough semiconductors in america. we want to reshore that supply chain so we're less vulnerable. semiconductors are the building blocks of a future economy. so it is a tough priority and something we're working aggressively to address. >> dickerson: but the timeline on that is very long. the intel c.e.o. says he

expects the supply change -- for the shortage to last for a couple of years. this is something that looks like it is going to be with us for a while. it seems to me that the president has offered a $50 billion plan on semiconductors over five years. but the taiwanese manufacturer of chips is spending $28 billion a year. so this seems like a long-term plan and maybe not enough. >> well, the $50 billion that the president is calling for has to be matched by the private sector. it is my hope that the $50 billion would be matched by another $50 billion or $100 billion by the private sector. the point is we're finally taking action. i've had many, many discussions with senators. we have to get going. as you say, this will take years. we're behind, and it is time to take action and get going on the plan now.

>> dickerson: as the administration's liaison to business, i wonder what you're hearing about the president's proposed tax increases on corporations jamjamie diamond said those tax increases were a little crazy. what have you heard in conversations about the future of their taxes being increased? >> in this regard, i have been actually pleasantly surprised. i talked to nearly 100 c.e.o.s personally, and what they all agree on is they support the president's calls for bold, big infrastructure investments, which are necessary for their competitiveness. they all agree we need investments in broadband, so every american has broadband. major investments in roads and bridges and child care. the question, of course, is how do you pay for it? and the reality is they

knew increased corporate taxes were coming. and i have been very pleased by how many c.e.o.s have come out to support the president's plan. listen, there will be room for compromise for sure, and the president will be meeting with members of congress this week, hoping to find compromise. but businesses need these investments to be competitive, and that's why there is no time to waste. >> dickerson: i want to ask you about a piece of news on the colonial pipeline that was hit with a cyber attack. it supplies nearly 45% of the gas to the east coast. (a) do you think it will have an economic impact? (b) what do businesses now have to worry about? because this isn't the first business to be hit piby a ransomwear attack. >> i will be working very

closely with ali miorkas with this. we have to work in partnership with business to secure networks to defend ourselves against these attacks. the president was briefed yesterday iar with regards to colonial, and we're working with state and local officials to make sure they get back up to normal operations as quickly as possible and there aren't disruptions in supply. >> dickerson: secretary gina raimondo, thank you gina raimondo, thank you so much for being with us. and hahappy motherer's day. and we'll be b back witth neneel kashkarari. stay w with us. bototox® is riright for yoy,

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help us understand what it means about that specific report and then what you think can be determined, if anything, about the larger state of the economy? >> well, johnny i t john, i thie shouldn't overreact to any one report. but i think the bottom line is we are still somewhere between eight and 10 million jobs before where we were before the pandemic. roughly eight to 10 million americans ought to be working right now if the covid crisis had not happened. so we're still in a deep hole and we need to do everything we can to put those folks back to work more quickly. i'll give you one example: when the financial crisis hit in 2008, it took 10 years to rebuild the labor market and put the economy fully back together. that is far too long. we at the federal reserve are doing everything we can to accelerate that job market recovery because it is good for the economy and good for families all

across the country. >> dickerson: well, that spector of a slow-plotting 10-year recovery is what has everybody worried. speaking of worried, individual risk perception, we see that people have more money than they seem to be spending. give us your understanding of personal risk choices that people are making, and can that really be changed? and if so, how? >> i think, you know, your discussions with dr. gottlieb and the commerce secretary were exactly right. it wasn't simply the lockdowns from the government that put a damper on the economy. it was each of us, each of your viewers, each family taking actions to protect themselves. yesterday for the first time in over a year, i got back on an airplane because my wife and i have been vaccinated and we felt comfortable. but it is going to take time for that psychology to change. i do think there is some truth to the unemployment benefits maybe being a disincentive, i see that in the data and as we talk

to people. i think child care shortages are a big impediment for people coming back in with schools being partially closed. and i think that fear, the risk of, hey, i don't want to get back on a crowded bus if that's what it is going to take to go to my job. the good news is over the next three or four months, each of those factors should get better as the vaccine continues to pen straighpenetrate and the virus slows down, which should lead to stronger growth in the second part of the year and a stronger labor economy, i hope. >> dickerson: it seems like you're telling us to look to september, when school re-starts and federal benefits will go away. maybe a little sluggish until we get into september, and people are more prodded to work because they're no longer getting unemployment benefits, and those who are worried about having kids at home, well, the kids will be off at school? >> i think those two

factors, and i'm assuming vaccine penetration will give all of us more confidence. my wife and i vaccinated. where are we going to be go into a crowded restaurant where we might be around other people who may not be vaccinated. that gives me somewhat of a pause. as the vaccine penetration goes up, i'm going to feel more confident. i think all three of the factors will trebd trend in a better direction over the next three months. the trend is obviously very good, which should boost confidence. >> dickerson: we have 30 seconds before the break, any numbers in the job reports that stood out to you? >> well, women continue to be disproportionately affected by the pandemic. the data went down for women, actually. there was no job growth. i don't want to overreact to one month, but the child care issues continue to be paramount, and that's why getting schools fully reopened and getting

kids vaccinated will be key to fully restoring our economy. >> dickerson: we're going to take a break really fast right now. but, neel kashkari, stay with us. we're going to talk to you on the other side of the break. we'll be right back. that's g great, carlrl. but t we need sosomething beb. that's's easily adadjustable has s no penaltities or advdvisory fee.e. and wewe can monititor to see thahat we're onon tra. like s schwab intetelligent in. scschwab! intrododucing schwhwab intetelligent inincome. a simpmple, modern way to pay yourself f from your p portfo. ohoh, that's c cool... i mean, wewe don't havave that. schwab.. a modern approach to wealth mananagement. [typing sounds] [music fades in] [voice o of female]] my hususband ben a and i opend ben's chili bobowl the veryry same yearar that we e marrrried. thatat's 195858. over the years, ben's became a gathering place for this community.

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to learn more about the latest research, including clinical trials, visit pancreatic cancer collective.org. this is the cbs overnight news. good evening, there's good news on america's covid recovery. new cases of the virus, hospitalizations and deaths are all down. nearly 35% of american adults have been fully vaccinated. at the same time, nothing gets americans on planes during a pandemic like the holidays and america's day weekend has proven no exception. we are at new york's laguardia airport and are led off, mola, not a lot of people behind you right now. >> reporter: well, t