captioning sponsored by cbs >> dickerson: i'm john dickerson in washington, and this week on "face the nation," continuing challenges for the biden administration as the country struggles to meet the president's self-imposed deadlines. it seems like everyone is hiring these days, but we're still running 7.6 million jobs behind where we were at the start of the pandemic. >> biden: you can't reboot the world's largest economy like flipping on a flight switch. >> dickerson: one of president biden's solutions, a massive infrastructure bill, aimed at repairing the nation's roads and bridges. we'll talk with transportation secretary pete buttigieg. >> it is one more

reminder, like the colonial pipeline was of how much we depend on critical infrastructure. >> dickerson: but as negotiations with republicans slog along, will democrats have to go it alone. and if so, will they all be on board? >> biden: i hear all of the folks on tv saying, why doesn't biden get this done? because biden only has the majority of affectively four votes in the house and a tie and the senate, with two members of the senate who vote more with my republican friends. >> dickerson: west virginia democratic senator joe manchin wants to make a deal with the g.o.p. we'll talk with him about it. another campaign that is plotting along: the push for 70% of americans to get at least one shot by july 4th. >> this is all about encouraging others that are on the fence to get vaccinated. >> biden: get a shot and have a beer. >> not one, not two, not three, not four, but five drawings for a million

dollars. >> dickerson: and with the publication of hundreds of e-mails from dr. anthony fauci, new questions about the origin of the covid-19 virus. we'll plac th break those down with dr. scott gottlieb, and check in on the economy recovery with bank of america's c.e.o. brian moynihan. and a conversation with former secretary of state condoleezza rice. it's all ahead on "face the nation." ♪ >> dickerson: good morning. and welcome to "face the nation." we've got a lot to get to today, but we begin by welcoming our first guest back into the studio, the first time in nearly 15 months. it is the secretary of transportation, pete buttigieg. good morning, mr. secretary. it is good tob to be in your company. let's start with this infrastructure bill. where does things stand?

the president has been negotiating wit with the republicans. where do things stander? >> on friday, there was another counteroffer by the republicans, about $50 million in movement, but did not meet the president's objectives for what we need to do. it is not just about getting through this season or some kind of short-term stimulus. it is about making sure that america wins the future at a time when our competitors, like china and our allies, are investing much more, frankly in infrastructure than we are. that's why it calls for such a big step. the president will speak again with senator capado, who has been a leader on the republican side. they'll speak on monday. and over on the house side on wednesday, there will be a markup for a key element of infrastructure policy. so lots going on right now. but still lots of daylight, honestly, between us and our

republican friends. >> dickerson: let me talk about that daylight, in a senate where you need 50 votes, don't the republicans basically have all of the leverage in these negotiations? >> right now the american people are with us. they want us to act. they believe in the need to invest in not just roads and bridges, but making sure that it is more affordable to be an american, building up our care infrastructure, and the american people are with us in terms of how we want to pay for this. which is by ensuring that corporations and the wealthy pay their fair share. so we think there is a very strong wind at our back. and we've seen a lot of republicans, certainly around the country, and a lot of republicans in office, state their interest in doing something real on infrastructure. we just have to see if we can actually get it into enough of an overlapping consensus that we can build on together because the president strongly prefers a bipartisan approach. >> dickerson: he prefers a bipartisan approach, but he has another option? >> as our democratic

friends remind us, there is other way, but our strong preference is to do this on a bipartisan way. there was a famous mayor who said there is no such thing a republican or democratic hole in the road. >> dickerson: and everybody loves a ribbon cutting. the reason i focus on which way you can do this is because the president is getting some heat from his left. they're saying, why doesn't he just go it alone? why doesn't he just do this with democratic votes? because this is, as you said, a key to your view on how to spur the economy, but the fact is you can't go it alone. if you recognize that fact, it does change the way people think about what is possible in terms of this signature economic piece of legislation. >> that's right. there are 50 democratic senators who think for themselves. you can't simply assume that all of them are going to come on board with something unless we work through it together. that's why there are so many republican and democratic senators in the conversations we're having

right now. i think at the end of the day, it is going to be tough for this country to understand why republicans would filibuster a good infrastructure bill. but we want to get there in a better way than what's happened to a lot of issues that have just gotten completely stuck, especially because there is such bipartisan interest in doing something real. >> dickerson: do you feel like in these negotiations there comes a point where people accuse the other side of not acting in good faith -- do you think republicans are acting in good faith? >> every conversation i've been part of, there has been lot of goodwill. we have big disagreements, that's for sure, but we're very candid about them. on the pay side, they sincerely believe that the corporate tax cuts and the tax cuts on the wealthy were a good policy and important to achievement to them. we might not agree or understand it, but when we talk about these things, it is and a

straightforward fashion. that's why the president has reminded them there are surely republicans can agree to as well on the tax side, like enforcement, to at least make sure that you don't have giant corporations making billions in profits paying zero, which is part of what has happened, and part of why we're struggling to pay for important things in this country. >> dickerson: on that question of paying for it, i was a little confused if the president has taken the idea of raising taxes off the table -- that's still on the table? >> it is still in our plan. what we're calling for is a 28% rate. most of my life it has been 35%, and sometimes higher. and the american business sector is very competitive. we're calling for a reasonable rate of 28%. but let's acknowledge in our plan and the president's plan, that is not one of the elements that is likely to get much republican support because they're so committed to those corporate tax breaks from president trump's tax cut and jobs act. what is something we might

be able to agree on? how about the idea we have enough enforcement to get companies paying what at least is the sticker rate that they're responsible for? and the remarkable announcement with the g-7, led by this administration and secretary yellen, that we're going to end this race to the become by getting the g-7 countries to agree to a global minimum tax. >> dickerson: the idea is corporations could pay at least 15%, and they couldn't race to another country to get a lower tax rate? >> yes. because the system provides an incent i incentive o park your jobs overseas. >> dickerson: we have seen another cyber attack. as the secretary of transportation, how much are you think about the threat from cyber-threats? >> it is a real concern and we're paying real close attention to it. in terms of securing the transportation we have, a lot of that is in homeland security and our partners on that side.

but we're thinking a lot about how to build up transportation that is going to be resilient in the future, and the right kind of communication is happening. remember transportation, like our water system and power systems, quite of bit of it in private hands or local hands. part of our vulnerability on cyber security is you're only as strong as your weakest link. so we have to make sure there are good cyber-practices all the way down to the individual company. because what colonial showed us was a cyber attack on a private company had national issues. >> dickerson: thank you, pete buttigieg. yesterday we talk with former secretary of state condoleezza rice. we began our conversation with the recent cyber-attacks in the u.s. the f.b.i. director, christopher wray, told the wall street journal this week that the ransomware threat was comparable to the challenge of global terrorism in the days after september 11th.

do you agree? >> well, there is certain some similarities. but i do think we need to have a talk, as an international community, with these countries, like russia, for instance, to say if criminal ransomware activities are coming out of your country, why don't we have intelligence cooperation, law enforcement cooperation, to shut it down? and in that way test the reality of how much the russian government is or is not involved. >> dickerson: president biden is considering retaliating, or punishing, the russians for exactly what you're talking about? >> i would certainly hope that the president has made clear to president putin this is unacceptable. we have had attacks that have really, really gone after our infrastructure in important ways. these are serious infrastructure attacks that shut down an economy. and so i think a very tough conversation with the russians about their obligations under these circumstances is very much warranted. >> dickerson: it is not

just the russians attack, that it came from inside china on the new york subway system. what kinds of challenges does that pose for an administration, and what kind of skills do knee they need if this is a chronic, ongoing problem? >> i think dr. wray started in the rate place, every infrastructure organization needs to redoubling their efforts not to be vulnerable. this is different than terrorism in the sense that the portal is not owned by the united states government. it is a private portal. it is an open portal called the internet. i have always said that it seems to me sometimes that the private sector and the government don't speak the same language here about what needs to be done. if you're going to be aibt able to a attribute an attack, it is a matter of marrying intelligence with what we know. so if we're going to survive this, we're going to have to have much

better cooperation between the government and the private sector. >> dickerson: let me switch to china. do you think that the next age of u.s. national security challenges is really one centered around the relationship and intentions with china? >> well certainly the great rival now is china. and -- but it is different than the cold war. because during the cold war, our great rival, the soviet union, was a military giant, but it was, frankly, a technological midget, and economically completely isolated from the international economy. china is very different. china is a technological giant. it is increasingly seeking military capabilities that look as if they are trying to change the balance in the asia pacific. so it is a different kind of challenge, but it is one i think can be met. >> dickerson: president biden is looking into how the pandemic started, and he is looking into the idea it may have started at the wuhan lab.

what advice would you give him about trying to get actual answers about what happened? >> well, the first thing is to recognize that there was too much of a tendency early on to dismiss this possibility of a laboratory leak. and i think there was a lot -- and i think the press beared some responsibility for this. well, it had to be animal to human transmission -- these were conspiracy theories about a laboratory leak. and some of the evidence was right in front of our faces. we know there were state department diplomats who inspected, so to speak, that laboratory and came back and said that the safety practices were sub standard. when we knew there were patients back in november that had suspicious symptoms, maybe that was a time to start asking tough questions. i think we, perhaps, didn't say enough about the problems of the w.h.o.

going in and allowing the chinese to control the territory while they were trying to investigate. so now, better late than never. i'm glad we're fully looking at this. i'm not sure we'll ever know fully the story, but putting pressure on the chinese, taking this to the united nations, raising the profile of what china needs to do to help us get this right. i was actually national security advisor when sars hit. it was the same problem. we knew something walk happening. was happening. we couldn't get answers from the chinese. and this one had much more devastating consequences. so we'll have to be a little more aggressive with the chinese about the need to cooperate. i think we made a mistake earlier on in many, many people -- many officials dismissed this possibility.

>> dickerson: were the officials in this response too accommodating of china? early on we were told the chinese were on top of it. i can't imagine in the cold war them saying the russians have told us they're on the case, everything is fine. were we too trusting of the chinese? >> yes. i think there were those who said president trump's early decisions about border controls were xenophobic, but they were incredibly right. i'm going to give people a break during this time. when you're in the middle of an unfolding crises, you don't really know what is going on. but given what we experienced with sars and the avion flu in the early 2000s, i don't think it was worth trusting that the chinese were being transparent about what was going on there. >> dickerson: we'll have more of our conversation

with secretary rice in our next half hour. coming up next, dr. scott gottlieb will have fresh reporting about the investigation into the investigation into the origins of the coronavirus. don't go away. - thanks. ready to shine frfrom the insnside out? try y nature's b bounty h, skinin and nailsls gummi. the numbmber one brarand o support bebeautiful hahai, glglowing skinin, and d healthy nanails. and intrododucing jelllly bes with t two times m more biot. ♪it's, oh, so quiet♪ and intrododucing jelllly bes ♪shhhh shhhh♪ ♪it's, oh, so still♪ ♪shhhh shhhh♪ ♪and so peaceful until...♪ ♪you blow a fuse♪ ♪zing boom♪ ♪the devil cuts loose. zing boom♪

♪so what's the use. wow bam♪ ♪of falling in love?♪ >> dickerson: we want to welcome back former f.d.a. commissioner dr. scott gottlieb to our studio. he has not been with us in person in washington since march 2020. dr. gottlieb is also on the board of pfizer, and his up coming book is: "uncontrolled spread: why covid-19 crushed us and how we can defeat the next pandemic." very glad you're here. >> doctor: thank you. >> dickerson: let's begin this week with thousands of e-mails to dr. anthony fauci were released. what did you make of those e-mails. >> doctor: i didn't think there was anything remarkable in those e-mails. i don't think there was anything that tony said that expressed any ill-intent, and nothing

that was new. i think though, that some of the discussion that went on in the e-mails evidenced a larger issue, which is the e-mail that is being focused on is the smoking gun, an e-mail that tony received that they felt it could have been a pathogen. they were virologists looking at the virus itself. it was reasonable to draw conclusions based on the evaluation of the sequence because that was largely the best piece of information we had. as time evolved and as more virologists looked more carefully at this, the judgment th there was nothing that remarkable. the virus could have been derived from nature. so the initial analysis was based on the analysis of the sequence. there is a broader mosaic here: we have other

information now that fits into this picture. the science is one piece of information, but there is a lot of other information that points in the direction that this could have come out of a lab, that we need to have a broader view about the potential risk that this was a lab leak. >> dickerson: it seems like we've got two baskets of information. one, we're all trying to figure out how this started. these e-mails from the early period give us some window and insight to that, the virologist who made that initial determination. and then there is a side political fight going on about dr. anthony fauci. the ch claim appears to be he was not forthcoming about the idea that it might have been have a lab leak within his discussions within the administration and the other work he was doing. and some people looked at these e-mails and said it suggests that. >> doctor: well, i was told at that time, back in the spring, that dr. fauci had gone over to a meeting of world health leaders in europe and actually briefed them on the information that they were looking at, that this

could have been a potential lab leak, that this strain looked unusual. so those discussions were going on. i was told that by a senior in the trump administration. i have reconfirmed that conversation that that happened at the time contemporaneously with that meeting over a year ago. i think early on, when they looked at the strain, they had suspicions. and it takes time to do that analysis, and that dispelled some of those suspicions. the broader issue is we look at these things through the lens of science, and not necessarily through the lens of national security. a scientific mindset looks at the virus and the virus' behavior and draws a conclusion. a national security assessment looks at that and then looks at the behavior of the chinese government, the behavior of the lab, other evidence around the lab, including the infections we now know took place, and that changes the overall assessment. so the virologists who are

still focused on we don't think it is a lab source, they're looking at it through the lens of what is a sequence look like. that is just one piece of evidence. that's partly why these kinds of assessments need to be the hands of the national security apparatus. >> dickerson: the whole reason that this question of where it started from is important, it is not because it could have changed the way the u.s. approached the virus at that time, but for what we do going forward. what it sounds like you're saying, there was mistakes made not out of ill-intent, but just a too narrow view of how to look at these things. if we're going to face another one of these things, as we surely will, we need to broaden our view as a country? >> that's right. the view was the c.d.c. has it. responding to a pandemic or an outbreak, sars 1 or ebola, is something that the c.d.c. did. so the tools of national security weren't deeply

engaged at the outset. i think now we need to judge them through the lens of a national security mindset. public health preparedness is a matter of national security. if you bring the national security officials in at the outset of these kinds of investigations, they look at the totality of the evidence. they will weigh heavily the judgment of the virologistinvirologists and whae the sequences telling us -- they were debating the characteristics of the sequence. once they assured themselves that the sequence looked fairly -- not normal, but the things in it could be found in nature and could be the result of reassortment in nature, their belief that this could have been an engineered strain started to subside. you saw the evolution of that thinking, but that thinking was derived from looking at the virus itself. >> dickerson: bet me ask let mek you about this term "gain

of function," that gain of function was going on by the government and even dr. anthony fauci. what is your settlement of that? >> doctor: if this did come out of a lab -- and that's a big if -- it doesn't mean it was from engineering. if the chinese had discovered a novel chain of coronavirus, it probably would have been sent to -- they were trying to infect animals, an millionsanimals with fully ie systems -- >> dickerson: they do that so that can figure out -- >> doctor: figure out ho how it works. the process of growing a vaccine in a million cultures, and the process of i infecting animals -- you don't need to engineer

it into a animal, and it became more humanized with the process of just experimenting with the. we know there were some outbreaks of coronavirus that the chinese still haven't released. a real material fact is the evidence that the chinese government has not released. early on they released a lot of information that really helped our response, particularly critical information, but subsequent to that they held on to a lot of information. >> dickerson: and >> dickerson: and probably w will contininue toto. dr. scotott gottlieieb, thank you fofor being with us.s. >> d doctor: thahank you. ies fo0 instead ofof paying ththousan. all commmmission freree onlin. schwhwab stock s slices: an ny waway to startrt investingg oror to give t the gift of stotock ownershship. schwabab. own n your tomororrow. [typing g sounds] [music fadades in] [voice o of female]] my hususband ben a and i

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>> dickerson: what's your opinion about whether there should be a commission to look into the events of january 6th? >> we somehow need to look into the events of january 6th. it was a terrible stain on our democracy. we have a really terrific system. it was tested on that day. we need to understand what happened with security. we need to understand the nature of that test. the sad thing is, i testified before the 9/