>> dickerson: what's your opinion about whether there should be a commission to look into the events of january 6th? >> we somehow need to look into the events of january 6th. it was a terrible stain on our democracy. we have a really terrific system. it was tested on that day. we need to understand what happened with security. we need to understand the nature of that test. the sad thing is, i testified before the 9/11

commission -- we also had the iraq study group, which was another group of citizens, imminent citizens, who helped us understand what was going wrong in iraq. so we have a tradition of these citizens, these elders, if you will, of the country, to help us through times like this. the problem right now is there isn't enough trust in washington to get this done in a way that everybody will trust the process. we do need to know what happened on january 6th. >> dickerson: but wasn't both sides -- the republicans blocked the commission. >> the problem is there just isn't -- there just isn't enough trust in the congress right now. because we have constant discussions about, you know, how am i going to simply push you aside and do what i want to do? so let's just recognize we're not in 2004, when

the 9/11 commission was constituted and worked, and try to find way to get to a set of answers about what happened on january 6th. i would prefer that this were not the case, but maybe we have to think about ways to do this outside of our electoral bodiesment. >> dicbodies. >> dickerson: there is also a debate in america how we teach america's history. you knew one of the students who died at the birmingham baptist church. >> that's right. >> dickerson: explain for me how you see that part of american history, also the tulsa massacre, and other parts of america's civil rights history, and america's exceptionalism that you were tasked with promoting across the globe. >> american history was, in part, shaped at its very beginning bi by the birth defect of slavery. do i wish they had won

out, absolutely, but they didn't. we had reconstruction that gave way to jim crow. i was born in birmingham, alabama. i was eight before we could go to a movie theater. i didn't have a white classmate until we moved to denver when i was 12. so, yes, i know america's troubled past. and that troubled past continues to have an impact going forward on how we see each other. when i hear the talk about structural racism, it really gives me pause. and it gives me pause because it doesn't tell me what to do. if we could talk about the impact of race on various aspects of our life -- i have family members who were victims of sickel-cell. it affected mostly black people. when we think about medical outcomes that clearly are disproportionate, can we finally agree that our "k" to 12 education system is really serving poor kids and minority kids very

badly? can we agree that we actually have a choice system? because if you are me, you will move to the district where schools are good. and the houses will be expensive, so that is a choice. so those are choices. who really doesn't have choice? poor kids and many are minority kids. so there are these impacts of race that i think are worth examining. i want kids to know about tulsa. i also want them to know what that black community did to overcome that horrible massacre. i want them to know about 63 in birmingham, but i want them to know that the mayor of birmingham today is a black man who grew up in a poor community. so i want them to see the progress of america as well on these issues. and i want us as a country to do it together because i don't want this to be black against white. my weaponization of my

identity against yours. >> dickerson: you're point of structural racism is not that it doesn't exist, but the term itself doesn't get you as far as you would like? >> john, i cease to use it because i don't know what it means anymore. i believe it becomes a barrier. do i think there are impacts of race that are clear in american life? absolutely. but, you know, the other problem with it is it sounds so big and impenetrable, as if we have to jettison the system somehow. and with all of its problems, having been all over the world, and having seen how people deal with difference, i will tell you that america deals with difference than any country i've ever visited. >> dickerson: secretary condoleezza rice, thank you so much for being with us. >> a pleasure to be with you. >> dickerson: the full interview with secretary rice is available on our website e at fafacethenatioion.com. wewe'll be rigight back k with

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>> dickerson: we turn now to senator joe manchin of west virginia. good morning, senator. >> good morning, john, how are you? >> dickerson: doing all right this morning. a lot of democrats are saying you are standing in the way of their priorities. one appears to be the president, he said in tulsa, talking about the frustration of getting things past, he said two members of the senate who vote more with my republican friends. he was either being honest about the limitations of what he can get done, or he is saying you're standing in the way of his agenda. >> i think that was taken out of context. the president knows how the senate works probably as well as any senator standing today. we're supposed to be a deliberate body to cool things off that come from the house. that's what we're doing. we're looking every way we can to bring this country together and unite this country. that's what i'm doing. i think anybody, democratic or republican, sitting today in the

senate, knows who i am. i've always been about bipartisanship. i've always tried to work in a bipartisan way. and i voted in a bipartisan way in the last 10 years of the senate. so i'm doing what i have always done. let's unite this country. >> dickerson: what the white house would say, on an issue -- let's say infrastructure, what they would say is there is a way to do this with democrats alone. it's the same method that was used to pass president trump's tax cuts. but you won't agree to do that. since you won't agree to do that, it takes all of the leverage away from the white house. now it requires 60 votes to get past a filibuster. it is not just that you want bipartisan. they would argue what you're doing is basically putting of all of the negotiating leverage in the hands of those 10 republicans -- >> we need to work within the framework of what we have. there are ways that we can move forward. let me say this: there

have been seven republicans that have spoken out and voted, whether it be impeachment or the wrong-doings of the president or whether it be for a commission. we have to keep striving to make sure we can get to that 10. that's why we're called the deliberate body. we keep working towards that goal. >> dickerson: let's focus on those seven. the argument is that the senate has changed so much that the institution joe biden knew when he started in the '70s just doesn't exist, and your desire for bipartisanship is part of an older senate. there is a quote from you, and you talked about the republicans who voted against a january 6th commission. you said they were choosing to put politics and political elections above the health of our democracy. you called it unconscionable and said it is a betrayal of the oath we take. leader mcconnell says he is focused 100% on blocking the biden agenda. what gives you any hope that they'll come over to anything that president biden wants? >> i think that my

republican friends and colleagues see the deadlock, also sms third this is not something they desire or wish. why they haven't been able to break from leader mcconnell, they'll have to dig deep into their soul, with the oath we take and why wer there we're th. i commend nancy pelosi for agreeing on a resolution that is more bipartisan than anything i've ever seen. you can say, well, that failed, so we give up. i don't think you give up on the first try just because you fail on something you know you did right. i'm thinking there are republicans that know that the concessions were made and was the right thing to do to try to start healing our country. we can't heal and unite this country if we don't know for sure what divided this country. to have an insurrection that most republican and democrat sat there together watch happening from the inside of that

capitol should have been enough of an alarm in saying this is the first time in the history of our country of anything coming close to this, even a civil war, the form of government that we have was encroached. >> dickerson: let me ask you about voting rights, which is another issue. you have an op-ed in the charleston gazette, when you talk about deliberation and the senate slow-moving being one of its great functions, democrats would say while you're waiting for bipartisanship, what is happening in the states is 300 or so bills voted by republicans to limit voting rights, changes in the ability to overturn elections if democrats win. they say you can't wait while that is happening in the states for voting rights to pass by a bipartisan margin in the senate. >> john, we have two bills before us. we have the voting rights act, which was passed over five times in our history in the most bipartisan way. we name it appropriately the john lewis voting

rights act. we can expand that to all 50 states. we can do so much more with that. it is starting out to be bipartisan. i have senator li lisa mccowski -- >> dickerson: if i could just interrupt. you know politics and how it works. why would republicans, when they're making all of these gains, why would they vote for a bill some day in a senate that is going to take away all of the things they're achieving right now in those state houses? >> john, they've achieved what they achieved before they weren't thinking they had to make changes. why in the world would they want to make changes that basically subvert -- i can tell you, what goes around comes around. it can be more damaging to them, too. the bottom line is: the fundamental purpose of our democracy is the freedom of our elections. if we can't come to agreement on that, god help us, john. and someone has got to fight for this. and we've got to say, listen, the divided

country that we're in today, the insurrection that we saw january 6th, if we don't try to heal that and make every effort and go beyond the call of duty, then what are we and who are we? we've been known to go around the world and promote democracy and observe other elections. what kind of credibility do you think we have in doing that today? so i'm going to fight for this. and i think the republicans will fight for this and understand we must come together on a voting rights bill in a bipartisan way. you can't divide our country further by thinking you've given leeway to one or the other. if they think they're going to win by subverting and oppressing people from voting, they're going to loose. >> dickerson: all right, senator ma manchin, the sands of time have run through the hour glass. "face the nation" will be back in a minute. ststay with us..

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recent number of them, and we've seen the way in which these ransomware attacks can affect the economy. how much time are you spending on this, and has your approach to it become -- hs increased based on the new recent attacks? >> well, the financial service industry, this has been an issue for many years. so i spent time on it, but, frankly, the good news is we have a great team. we have gone from $400 million a year a little over a decade ago to a billion dollars a year, plus 2,000 people work on it. but there is more that can be done, and there are suggestions and proposals coming out to do more sharing, cooperation, and speed, and things like that, that i think need to be looked at by the current administration and congress and pushed through to protect more people. >> dickerson: tell me a little bit about that speed, in particular, that needs to be crucial in one of these instances. what more needs to be

done? >> well, we were able to create a group called r.f. now, a group of many companies that are inside the tent, so to speak, sharing the information to write clearances. that allows us to move quickly when one person is seeing something and share it with others. i think that kind of cooperation is in the most critical industries, but needs to be moved to more and more industries over time. >> dickerson: let's switch now to the health of the economy. the jobs report for may was good but not great. what do you see -- you have a special window on people spending and their consumer habits and economic activity. what are you seeing from your vantage point? >> a couple of key points about the economy. one, the growth is predicted 7% this year, and 7.5% next year. the economy is as big as it was pre-pandemic

roughly, and it is predicted to go two to three times the rate over the next couple of years. we think consumers have not spent about 65%, 70% of the last couple rounds of stimulus. loans are starting to pick up. companies have unused lines of borrowing. the consumer spending is up 20%, obviously a lot over '20. you're seeing a 10% growth rate, which is a faster growth rate on a bigger amount. there are couple of key risks: one is supply chain, and the other is people getting workers, and that bodes well for the unemployment figure that is starting to drop and we predict to get into the low-to-mid-fours. >> dickerson: when you're focusing on the 20% over '19, '19 was not a pandemic year. so the spending appears --

one of the things we saw during the pandemic is people were paying down their credit card and saving money. do you attribute that 20% to what some people call the revenge spending or the pent-up consumer demand that was out there? >> i think a lot of it has to do, how you're seeing it happen is really the reopening across the board. in certain places because the infection rates were different and reopened faster, you've got a pretty good diversification. you're seeing the spending move to domestic travel spending, car rentals, hotels, for leisure travel. not business travel yet. that will probably be late this fall. theme park booking -- those are very good signs. it is shifting to buying more food in the store to people going to restaurants. so you're seeing that natural behavior, which is i can go out and do things and sit down and eat

dinner. because, frankly, way back when i was talking with marryingmargaret, it was a war with this virus. it is not over yet, and we have to be careful to get it done, but we're winning the war. >> dickerson: let me ask you about small business. bank of america is the major lender to small business. more than 4,000 closed during the pandemic. what kinds of businesses are borrowing and starting to take risks again? >> well, the good news is you're starting to see in our smallest business, companies up to $5 million in revenue, we're seeing the ri originations exceed what they were in the month of april. it is really the reopening in those economies. the businesses doing the best are doctors, lawyers, and things like that, who really recovered quickly. but now the people's supply in the industry is

growing faster. one of the things we have to work on is continue the supply chain. when we ask our small businesses what's on your mind, in the fall it was all about the pandemic. in the spring, it was al about getting workers and getting their supplies so they have things to sell and manufacture and to sell to their costumers. it is something that is straightening out, but it will take a little time. >> dickerson: do you worry about the backlog of people paying their mortgages, those who wouldn't during the pandemic. what happens when they lose government assistance, will they be able to pay those mortgages? >> the good news at bank of america it is a thing of the past. at the high point we had given two million costumers the right not to pay. we're go down to a fraction of that now. i think all mortgages are cullicoming down. a little bit of the world has largely recovered, but there are pockets of things that have to be dealt with.

>> dickerson: we've run out of time. thank you so much, brian moynihan, for being withh moynihan, for being withh us. fad and d we'll be r right back.k. e for this community. we've been through all kinds of changes, but this pandemic has been the most difficult of all the challenges i've experienced. [voice of male] the chili bowl really has never closed in our history. people come here to see the photos on the wall, to meet the family. you couldn't have that experience anymore.. so, we h had to pivovot. ththere's nono magic forormu, but itit's beenen really hehel to keeeep people u updated on n. wewe wouldn't be here e withoutr wondnderful custstomers. wewe do get soso much suppppt and soso much loveve from the. [voice of f female] i don't have to o come everyryy atat my age, but i comeme because i i love people. [f[female voicices soulfulully g “comeme on in”] that's s why i comeme to ben'.

>> dickerson: vice-president harris is heading to central america today. she is tasked to lead diplomatic efforts in the region to slow the flow of migrants into the united states. senior white house and political correspondent ed o'keefe is covering her tripip and rereports frfrom guatatemala. >> repororter: reccent americanan history y is repepeating itseself in guatememala. six years agoo vice presidenent biden cacame heree to meet with cecentrall amamerican leaeaders in hopes of stopping the flow of migrants. >> if we don't do this, all of us will feel the consequences. >> reporter: today as thousands of mexicans and central americans keep crossing the southern border, mr. biden is deploying his vice president, kamala harris. she arrives in guatemala

tonight. she will meet with guatemala's president. what is she like one-on-one? >> she doesn't hold back, which is good. she is frank. we're not on the same side of the coin. >> reporter: he says increased border crossings have been caused in part by the change of administrations in washington. [speaking spanish] >> speaking through interpreter: the message changed to: we're going the reunite families and children. the very next day they were hear organizing groups of children to take them to the united states. we asked the united states government to send more of a clear message to prevent more people from leaving. >> reporter: guatemala is about the size of ohio, with about 16.5 million people of all sizes, and most of them never even think of leaving this

country. you've got really poor, really wealthy, and millions in the middle who simply want to find a way to live here. have no reason to leave. for those who leave or let their children head north, american politics never crossed their minds. [speaking spanish] >> speaking through interpreter: we don't have water or electricity. we don't have any money to buy food. >> reporter: harris cites a poor economy and climate change as leading push factors and a long history of government corruption. the guatemala president says that is misguided. on corruption, who is the biggest corrupter. the president told us he also wants americans tostop y with neighboring el

salvador and honduras in what many call the northern triangle. is that a fair description? >> it's an insult. >> reporter: it's an in assault. why? >> speaking through interpreter: there is a mistake being made in the united states. they always looked at us like their backyard. that's a mistake. we're the front yard. if the front yard is bad, how will the house be? if you all take care of your front yard, how will your house been? >> reporter: the vice president is scheduled to make a stop here at the national palace on monday, and on tuesday she is holding meetings in mexico city. but sorting out the roots of the immigration crisis will take far longer than the length of any one american presidency. >> dickerson: thank you. and we'll see you next week. captioning spons

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