captioning sponsored by cbs >> dickerson: i'm john dickerson in washington. and this week on "face the nation," with scientists now warning if you are unvaccinated, you will likely get the coronavirus, will that change the minds of the biggest holdouts when it comes to getting vaccinated. american is seeing a summer surge of covid. case rates have more than doubled since late june, fueled by the highly contagious delta variant. >> the delta variant is covid on steroids. this virus is far more infectious than the covid we were dealing with a year ago. >> dickerson: according to the c.d.c., this surge was avoidable. hotspots are mostly states or regions with low vaccine rates. in springfield, missouri, cases are up 150% since

last month. we'll talk with the city's mayor, ken mcclure. and we'll check in with former f.d.a. commissioner dr. scott gottlieb. in their campaign to get more people vaccinated, the biden administration targets covid-19 social media misinformation. >> what is your message to platforms like facebook. >> biden: the only pandemic we have is among the unvaccinated. they're killing people. >> dickerson: we'll ask the head of the former cyber security agency chris krebs. and elections expert, david becker, will weigh in on challenges across the country to voting laws. and cbs news business analyst jill schlesinger will tell us why prices are rising, and if and when we can expect to see them russian return to normal. and context on new books about the trump administration, with admiral michael mullen.

it is just ahead on "face the nation." ♪ >> dickerson: good morning, and welcome to "face the nation." many weeks, when we put together this broadcast, were challenged by the number of stories that we want to cover and how best to illuminate them. this is one of those weeks. we're going to try to get to a lot today. our lead is clear, though, it is a story that has dominated the news for 18months now, with a dangerous new twist, causing a surge of the coronavirus here in the rk strassman texas. >> reporter: covid has boomeranged. the menace, the masking, the fear, all back. and it is largely a self-inflicted wound across our two americas. >> this is becoming a pandemic of the unvaccinated. >> reporter: as of midnight, los angeles

reimposed its indoor mask mandate. las vegas wants safer odds, now recommending masks in casinos and all indoor spaces. for the first time since january, new weekly covid cases have jumped in all 50 states, fueled by the delta variant. nationally, a spike of almost 70%. hospitalizations up roughly 36%. deaths, 26%. but in the same week, nationally new vaccination doses plummetted another 35%. immunologists say these dots are easy to connect. taktake texas, in the bottom 20 states for the vaccination rate. week to week, new cases soared more than 100%. or consider the sickest covid patients, the ones in hospitals. nationwide, 97% of them are unvaccinated. >> let's get rid of the vaccine. >> reporter: especially galling the scientists,

the relentless campaign of distrust and disinformation against the vaccine. covid patients are getting younger, more children in the i.c.u. florida's rate of new covid cases four times the national average. governor ron desantis encourages vaccination but hawks merchandise on line about anti-fauci and anti-masking, and that resonates with millions of americans. >> i'm vaccinated. i don't need to wear a mask. >> reporter: infections surge in places like tennessee, in the become five for vaccinating adults. 80% of children here between 12 and 15, are also unvaccinated. but the state has stopped all vaccine outreach to adolescents. >> we've got to get folks back into their pediatrician, back into their doctor, and really ensure they have adequate access to vaccination and adequate education. >> dickerson: that's mark strassmann in van

morn, texas. we go now to ten c ken mcclure, the mayor of missouri, where cases have skyrocketed because of the delta variant. good morning, mr. mayor. >> mayor: good morning. thank you for having me. >> dickerson: in your community, the two largest hospitals are maxed out. one of them, the c.e.o. of the hospital, tweeted he was pleading with people so nurses would have to stop zipping body bags. how did it come to this? >> mayor: i think there are several reasons. first, springfield is a hub. we're an attraction for tourism, we're an attraction for transportation, for business, for higher education, and certainly health care. so people come to springfield to shop, to do business. so people will come here. and i think that has greatly increased our exposure, compounded with what has already beend on misinformation. >> dickerson: what kinds of misinformation are you seeing in your community? >> mayor: i think we're seeing a lot spread through social media, as people are talking about

fears which they have, health-related fears, what it might do to them later on in their lives, what might be contained in the vaccinations, and that information is just incorrect. i think we, as a society, and certainly in our community, are being hurt by it. >> dickerson: there has been a conversation throughout this pandemic about information that comes from the top down and information that comes in the community, which is why we wanted to talk to you. what is the most affective work that is going on there on the ground to address those who are vaccine hesitant? >> mayor: we are a community of collaboration. nothing really of substance gets done in springfield without lot of people talking about it. so we're focusing on those trusted community leaders, those trusted community institutions. we know if it comes from the community and leaders that people trust, that that helps. the springfield news leader this morning had a great article focusing on several community leaders who had taken the vaccine, and why they were encouraging it. we are working with so

many entities to try to spread the word. and these are trusted sources, and i think that is a key to what we have to do to overcome this. >> dickerson: how about in the churches? the pastors have been talking about it, haven't they? >> the pastors have been a great help through this. we had established, in april a year ago, what we called the "have faith" initiative, which had 80 to 100 churches across denom national li denominational churches. we've had pastors stepping up in the pulpit and urging that their followers get vaccinated. people respect those with whom they worship, their worship leaders, and we're relying on those trusted entities. we that, just this past week, the latest numbers showing that we had the largest increase in our vaccination rate in several weeks. so i'm optimistic that that message is starting

to take hold right now. >> dickerson: how about there is another somewhat mildly controversial issue about going door to door to get information to people who may not get this kind of accurate information you are talking about. how has that worked in your community? >> mayor: well, i think the whole discussion on going door to door has been overblown. i will tell you that public health has being using the going to door to door philosophy for years. it is a tried and true practice, which they use. our springfield public health department is using it, has been using it for a long time. the key is these are trusted community people. we call them community advocates. so it gets down to the people that community members will trust, spreading information that is factual and trustworthy. >> dickerson: and how has the community in the -- in the past, there have been instances where a community faced with a challenge like this unify, but we've seen so much disunity in america on so

many of these questions related to the coronavirus, how has the reaction been in this recent wave as you've seen the delta wave come through springfield? >> mayor: the most recent wave, in my opinion, iverpoite abouulat key to o scess peopl -- people need to get it. it is encompassing down to age 12. so it comes down to the community institutions and people that people trustk saying yotrust,saying that theyo get vaccinated. >> dickerson: mask mandates have come back for the summer. what do you think about mandatory vaccinations for the fall, when they go back to school? >> mayor: well, mandatory vaccinations are going to be a very, very touchy issue, particularly as you get into

publicly-funded institutions. some private institutions are doing that. i know our school district is strongly encouraging that vaccinations occur. they'll be doing that, ides com ba iourrentoe apopriatstepar sfechke t ascan be i know they want to focus on in-person learning, and i believe they will be able to do that. >> dickerson: a number of other counties in missouri have low vaccination rates. what would you advice the mayors and leaders in those counties who haven't yet experienced what you're going through. what would your message to them be? >> mayor: my message is that the surge is coming. the delta variant will be there. it is already spreading throughout missouri. take advantage of this time to get your vaccine rates up as high as you can. use your community collaboration, your trusted sources. make sure that people have good information, solid information, and use that

time-wisely because it will be too late, if you have not established those relationships, by the time it gets there. the surge will spread, and hopefully people can learn what we've been experiencing in springfield. >> dickerson: mayor, thank you so much for being here. good luck in your community. thanks again. and we go now to former f.d.a. commissioner dr. scott gottlieb, who is on the board of pfizer, and who joins us from west port, connecticut. good morning. >> doctor: good morning. >> dickerson: so the c.d.c. director said this week that there is an epidemic of the unvaccinated. what is your reaction to that? >> doctor: well, look, when you look at the people who have been hospitalized, 97% of the hospitalizations are in people who are unvaccinated. and most of the deaths that are occurring is in people unvaccinated. many people are no longer susceptible to covid -- about 50% of the population has been fully

vaccinated, and probably another third has been the s. t if 2 ofhonesusctiblto the vir, that is still a lot of people. and this virus is so contagious, this variant is so contagious, it is going to infect the majority of them. moeoet vaccinated or were previously infected, or they will get this delta variant. it will be the most serious virus they get in their lifetime in terms of the risk of putting them in the hospital. >> dickerson: we just talked to the mayor of springfield, missouri, who sent the message to other communities that it is coming. it just reminds me of the original days of this pandemic, where the numbers kind of caught up to where reality was. do we have a handle, really, on the delta variant and how it is spreading and how much of it there is in the community? >> doctor: we've seen the coupling between cases in hospitalizations and deaths. england has seen that as well, and they're further

ahead in terms of the delta variant. i think at this point we're probably undercounting how many infections there are in the united states because to the extent that a lot of the infections are occurring in younger people, they're probably not presenting to get tested. to the extent there are some breakthrough cases, a.sta.systematic, they're not presenting because you don't think you have the coronavirus. unless you work for the new york yankees, wriewr you're not getting tested on a regular basis. so i think this delta variant is far more spread than we detecting. at the peak of the epidemic in the wintertime, we were probably turning over one in three or oner fe. the smmer wave of last summer're wereng onen we might be picking up one in 10 or one in 20, because more are

presenting in people who won't present for testing. so the people who are tending to be tested are people who are getting very sick, or who are developing tell tale lof taor smeeople, like dickerson: sof there is low ascertainment, and we don't know as much, and you live in a low vaccinated community, that doesn't have the headlines about hospitals filling, is it a fair expectation you'll start seeing those headlines in some number of days? >> doctor: it depends on where you live. if you live in states like where i live, where vaccination rates are high, there is a wall of immunity, and i think it will be a backdrop against delta spread. if you're in states that are low in vaccination, like in the south, i think it is much more vulnerable. especially if you live in communities where the prevalence is already high, i think it is prudent to take precautions. delta is sogis,

when we talk about masks, i don't think we should just been talking about masks. i think we should be talking about high-quality masks. where people are more contagious and exude mere virus. trying to getrehis is rely epidemi think isgoing important. if they want to add another layer of protection, even if they're vaccinated, there is a supplier of n-95 masks. there is no shortage. it could be something we start talking about, getting better quality masks into the hands of people. we can certainly provide them so people can use them on a voluntary basis to try to protect themselves. >> dickerson: one of the things we have seen among people who have not been vaccinated, they say i'll weara. t you o han n-95 or somethi truly robust? >> the doctor: right. the original discussion

was if we put masks on everyone, people who are asymptomatic wouldn't be contagious. there is now data in covid. but if you want to divisive protection from the mask, from others spreading the virus to you, quality of mask does matter. a high-quality n-95 mask will afford you a better level of protection, especially if you fit it and wear it properly. if you're a vulnerable individual who wants to use that mask to protect yourself, and not just cut down on the risk you could be a super spret spreader, you have to look out for high-quality masks. during the pandemic, people were reluctant to recommend that because there was a shortage. but now you can get them from reputable suppliers, like 3m, right now. >> dickerson: from a medical perspective, what are the one or two things that are out there that

are the biggestwgu:c misinformation in your view? >> doctor: probably the most pervasive is that somehow the vaccine itself is going to have an impact on fertility. i think that is discouraging a lot of young women from getting vaccinated. what we've seen is covid infection during pregnancy can be very dangerous. every woman who is a prospective mom should be talking to their doctor about getting vaccinated. they have something called v-safe, where they have 133,000 women who registered for this, and they got vaccinated while they were pregnant, and they are collecting data on the safety of the vaccine during pregnancy and it looks very encouraging. pfizer is doing a study of the vaccine in pregnancy. i think that is the single biggest piece of misinformation. and the other is this that this is a genome. that's not the case.

this is an mrna. it is a protein on the surface of the virus that we want to develop antibodies against. it either destroys it or it translates into the protein, and your body develops antibodies against that. they are trying to deliver a protein on the surface of the virus that you're trying to stimulate the immune system. in this case what you're delivering is a genetic sequence for that protein. >> dickerson: dr. scott gottlieb, thank you so much. much. as always, we'll see you next week. "face the nation" will be back in a minute. back in a minute. stay with us. designers and do-it-yourselfers. if joint pain is getting in the way of who you are, it's time to talk to your doctor about enbrel. enbrel helps relieve joint pain, and helps stop permanent joint damage. plus enbrel helps skin get clearer in psoriatic arthritis.

ask your doctor about enbrel, so you can get back to your true self. play ball! enbrel may lower your ability to fight infections. serious, sometimes fatal events including infections, tuberculosis, lymphoma, other cancers, nervous system and blood disorders and allergic reactions have occurred. tell your doctor if you've been someplace where fungal infections are common. or if you're prone to infections, have cuts or sores, have had hepatitis b, have been treated for heart failure, or if you have persistent fever, bruising, bleeding or paleness. don't start enbrel if you have an infection like the flu. visit enbrel.com to see how your joint damage could progress. enbrel. eligible patients may pay as little as $5 per month. >> dickerson: last week the biden administration outlined several steps aimed at fighting back against both cyber-attacks and misinformation campaign. chris krebs is the former director of the cybe

cyber-security infrastructure security ach see, and he joins us now. >> good to be here. >> dickerson: let's start with misinformation. the surgeon general put his take on blocking people getting vaccines. do you see similarities between those two? >> absolutely. it was a remarkable week in terms of pronouncements both from some of the social media platforms, facebook, as well as the administration. what we are seeing here, though, is an eco-system of information purveyors. some of this is politically motivated. some of it is the anti-vax community. some of it is, you know, profiteering. i tend to believe there is a lot of that going on here. >> dickerson: people selling quack cures? >> yeah. there was a "washington post" piece about a former f.t.c. commissioner that asked the f.c.c. to

investigate some of the profiteering off of the pandemic. and i think that is an incredibly important development hgo move beyond, nt just the pandemic-related disinformation, but also some of the election-related disinformation. >> dickerson: is there any foreign meddling in this kind of disinformation? we know about people passing -- neighbors who are passing information that isn't square, but are there any foreign entities involved? >> i think, yes, there are. there tends to be a set of actors. there are state actors, intelligence agencies, again, the profiteers, conspiracy therapists and anti-vaxers, and you have political activists as well. what happens, whether it is elections, whether it is covid, whether it is technology issues, you tend to have an overlap of these different actors. and when you talk about foreign actors and russian disinformation specialists in paro a

whole lot because we've done so much here domestically to ourselves. but they get the seeds of division that they amplify. and what they're looking to do is undermine our confidence in the united states of america ourselves. >> dickerson: we're all ready to fight, and they just drop in. let me ask you about facebook. they responded to the administration and said 85% of our users are interested in vaccines. basically saying that the administration is wrong. but the center for countering digital hate said that there are basically about 12 facebook accounts that are spreading this disinformati the right way to think. >> unfortunately, bothnrue at t. yes, facebook and oh social media platforms can provide helpful information on the facts behind the vaccine. and the same thing happened in the elections. last year they had a banner and a trust page.

but at the same time, there are those who can use those platforms for their own benefits to continue to push disinformation. what has happened over the last several months is that some of those, the dirty dozen or whatever they're calling it -- some of those have be deplatformed. but the problem is, particularly for vaccine disinformation, isn't it is me metasized. you mentioned about the top down and the bottom up grassroots, it is so pur pervasive, it exists on facebook and elsewhere. that's where we need the platforms to be more transparent in hour their algorithms work and how engagement works, so that outside security experts and researchers can dig in and hold them accountable, that us as consumers of these platforms can hold them accountabonwe have 15 seconds left. you mean the structure of facebook is raising and

people are spreading disinformation? >> unfortunately, and those clicks drive more engagement. >> dickerson: stay right there. chris will be right back. we need to take a short break, but stay with us. [music stops] and release. [deep exhale] [fast upbeat music resumes] [music stops] overwhelmed by the ups and downs of frequent mood swings of bipolar i? ask about vraylar. some medicines only treat the lows or highs. vraylar effectively treats depression, acute manic or mixed episodes of bipolar i in adults. full-spectrum relief for all bipolar i symptoms elderly patients

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>> dickerson: we'll be right back with a lot more "face the nation," continuing our conversation with chris krebs. stay with us. ♪

>> dickerson: welcome back to "face the nation." we have more with former head of the cyber security and infrastructure security agency, chris krebs. chris, r-evil, the russian-based company that was responsible for the colonial pipeline, what happened to them? >> it is not clear. one is that the president meeting with putin had an affect, and the intelligence in russia told them to knock it off. that is an option. the second is some sort of u.s. or ally operation put sand in their gears, and they decided to pack it up. the third is the their

that dimitri has advanced it is hot in moscow right now. and these guys just made a lot of money. so maybe they're hanging it up for a couple of months going down to the black sea. they just picked up some territory there esraine, so mag out down there. >> dickerson: on the first two theories, the first would be that the russians are basically proving biden's case, you have control over these people and you can make it stop, because the russians are involved in a lot of bad activity? >> absolutely. that would tell me that, as you said, they have some authority and some ability to compel action. but that doesn't mean these folks are just going to go away. they can go to other safe havens. belarus could be an option, and they could go elsewhere that would provide that little more comforting environment.

>> dickerson: let's imagine they go for whichever of the three reasons that is, how easily can they be replaced by an equally men nemanevolent force? >> i would expect they would come back and rebrand in the fall. some new name. it gives them the advantage of staying off the radar of law enforcement, and if the administration starts sanctioning some of these ransomware crews, which they've done in the past, by changing names, it makes law enforcement and the treasury department play catch-up. >> dickerson: speaking of playing catch-up, there is now somebody in your old job. the administration has a lot of players on the field. give me your assessment of the biden administration cyber security field. maybe they have so many people on the field it will be hard for everybody to stay coordinated? > they have an impressive

team. so jen easterly just came in, and was confirmed earlier this week. they also have chris ingis, and ann newberger in the white house, it is almost an embarrassment of riches from a capability perspective. and kind of going from the last administration, which was, you know, a much smaller set of cyber-experts, there is going to be some adjustments. but sisa, my old agency, now jen's agency, is the front door for private sector engagement with the u.s. government. and i really look forward to her and that team continuing to move the ball forward on improving cyber-defenses here domestically. >> dickerson: chris krebs, we're out of time. we really appreciate it. thank you. we turn now to the state of the economy and the recent uptake in consumer prices. cbs news business analyst jill shes s schlesinger joins us

from long i.d. 146. i.island.good morning, jill. >> governing. >> dickerson: prices are up 5%, the biggest ricins august of 2008. what's going on? >> there are a lot of different forces. i want to point out that a lot of this has to do with the fact that a year ago, when we had these price increases, we look back a year, that's when the economy was still mostly shut down. so the effects of looking one year ago, it seems like this gigantic, big jump in prices. but we also have the confluence of good old economy 101: supply and demand. we've been shut down mostly for 16 months, red-hot consumer demand. there is more than $2 trillion of excess savings that we have burning a hole in our pockets and we're spending it big time. we had have bottleneck in supply, and that cut off a lot of supply.

so you . it all together, and as you said, it's a big increase. so we have the biggest price increases in 30 years. >> dickerson: help us understand what is a once-in-a-lifetime pandemic, and then coming out of that with the economy, and what portion of what is increasing do you think is as a result of what you say is the bottlenecks that have to do with the pandemic, and what portion of the increasing is likely to stay higher as the economy recovers? >> well, i think it is important to note that economists are battling this very question right now. and we don't know the answer. here is what we do know: the things that went down the most in price during the pandemic are seeing huge increases. so everything in leisure and hospi h hotel right now. go try to fly, it's tough.

but what other areas, as we talk about the supply chains, semiconductor chips are really in need right now. and those are needed in cars. because new car production stalled in the beginning of the pandemic, very few suppliers thought will would be this huge demand for cars. well, no new cars, let me go to the used car market. wait a second. there are used cars that are up 40% in price than before the pandemic. this is a huge number. those types of bottlenecks will not continue. i think the area that economists are most worried about is everything else. and that means that we've got to watch wages. we've got to watch food prices. clothing and apparel was up very big. it is unclear to anyone at this moment in time how much of that will stick and for how long. >> dickerson: jill, what about -- i mean, wages are a part of this as well. we hear about labortas, and youe

companies in the fast food industry adding more not only to the paycheck, but also benefitareges part of this picture, and what do you think the durability of that is? has that changed or will they go back down again? >> i think this is really an interesting question because for so many years it really felt like employers had the upper hand. through the pandemic, because there was a lot of ability for people to stay home, people were really happy to collect the money and be safe, and that was smart, and now we have smaller companies specifically complaining they cannot find labor. now a company like mcdonald's or a starbucks or an amazon, they can pay up. they have made gobs of money throughout the pandemic. no problem. i think the concern is about some of the smaller employers, the mom and pop employers. they're saying we cannot find people, and we can't afford to pay these wages to compete with the big guys, and we're feeling squeezed out. if you're a worker, you're

feeling really good. but remember one thing, if prices are up by 5% and you only have a 3% increase, you're losing. the labor department said if you look at the average wages right now, from a year ago, and you account for inflation, we actually are making 1.7% less than we did a year ago. and that's not a great condition for workers. seconds left, jill, we can't talk about inflation without talking about the federal reserve. what is your sense of what the federal reserve will do in response to these signals of inflation. >> remember the fed has basically two jobs: they want to foster enough economic growth to get people in the labor force and they want to keep an eye on prices. for 10 years prior to the pandemic, they were worried that prices were not rising enough. now they have got to focus on inflation. the fed chair, jerome powell has said, the fed is willing to let inflation run hotter for a

little longer to get people back in the labor force. i think we're going to see higher prices at least for another six months. next year, that's another question, john. >> dickerson: jill, thanks so much for breaking it all down for us. we'll be back in a moment. overwhelmed by the ups and downs of frequent mood swings of bipolar i? ask about vraylar. some medicines only treat the lows or highs. vraylar effectively treats depression, acute manic or mixed episodes of bipolar i in adults. full-spectrum relief for all bipolar i symptoms

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[fast upbeat music resumes] [music stops] pud donald trump's presidency. one episode contained in many of them, as well as a new yorker article this week by susan glasser, stands out. general mark milley spent the final months of the administration worried that the president would use the military to stage a coups to deny joe biden the presidency or launch hostilities against iran to stay in power. what makes the story notable is the stature of the character. milley is the nation's top military official, whose job required close work

with mr. trump. the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff must scan for dangers and devise plans to meet them. he advises the president what he can do about threats. but in this case, it was what the president might do that milley thought it was the threat. for insight into this episode and the questions it raises, we turn to a man who held milley's job before here, former chair man of the joint chiefs of staff, admiral michael mullen, who joins us from ohio. good morning, admiral. >> good morning, john. good to be with you. >> dickerson: you were chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, and what do you make of this episode? >> well, i think the reporting, from what i understand, has been pretty accurate, a pretty chaotic time, particularly after the election. and the two threats that you talked about, the external one, and whether or not we would commence

some kind of combat or conflict with iran, and then the internal one, in terms of where it might go particularly with respect to how the military would be used by president trump to somehow validate that the election actually was a fraud and keep the president in power. i think that is all very accurate and obviously disturbing literally in every respect. >> dickerson: it is fair to say you don't train for those kinds of occurrences with the commander in chief? >> no, you don't. but i think general milley and others who have served over the past four years would say it is a very chaotic environment, very difficult to predict what was going to happen from day to day, and great concern with respect to the possibility of some of the orders that might come the military's way, which generally will go with the

advice of the chairman, and certainly directly to a combatant commander. in the case of iran, it would go to centrallç command. so in this case, general milley i think did the right thing on both fronts. i don't think he was alone with respect to iran. but i think on the internal potential for a coups, milley really stood up and did the right thing and i think made the case that he was the right officer to have in the right job at the right time, in a very, very difficult, stunning, and unprecedented situation. >> dickerson: help us distinguish between garden variety conflict between a chairman of the joint chiefs of staff and a president and what we're talking about here. because i know president obama wrote in his book about once being in a tough conversation with you. those are -- those happen in that job. but that's something quite different from what milley

was worried abo, ri ea ioly. there, has huge challenges. and so you get into some very, very tough, heated debates about what -- you know, what is recommended or what is going to be done in a given situation. but in the end, the chairman and the military leadership once the president makes a decision, we carry it out. there is no discussion with respect to that. in this case, clearly had president trump decided to use the military against the american people and somehow create an opportunity for the president to stay in place, that rubs up -- actually, it is contrary to constitution, which is what the military serves, as opposed to the president, and could be seen as an illegal,

immoral, or unethical order, in which case general milley and the rest of the military leadership, the other four resist, resign.ew would behesiso >> dickerson: one of the turning-point moments for general milley was the president's walk through lafayette park, in which general milley walked with him, you spoke out, after not speaking out about the trump administration, in an article in the atlantic and said you were worried about the military being used in political ways. that was a turning point for you and for general milley. i guess my point is these episodes in this book were a part of a growing trend. it wasn't just what happened at the end of the trump administration. you had fears about the politicization of the military long before that? >> i do.

i did. and i continue to have them even now because the political environment is so intense and so divided. and we need to work hard to make sure the military doesn't become part of what is politicized in this country. i think as far as lafayette park is concerned, general milley spoke publicly very quickly thereafter, and readily admitted he made a big mistake. with respect to literally from june until after january 6th, when milley really started to be cncerned about what was possible, he antenna was up. he knew the right thing to do. he knew how to do it, as best you could figure out in what is a very, very fluid situation, and then he executed according. so i think he more than made up for that mistake that he made surrounding lafayette square. >> dickerson: admiral michael mullen, thank you so much for being with us,

and helping us put all of this in context. we really appreciate it. and we'll be back in a moment.

>> dickerson: since the november election,

17states have enacted new laws that tighten rules around casting ballots and running elections. in an effort to keep texas from becoming the 18th, democrats staged a protest, flying to washington, to block republicans from passing a more restrictive voting law. to help us put those challenges into perspective, we're joined by david becker, the director and founder of the center for election innovation and research. welcome. nice to have you here. >> great to be here, john. >> dickerson: there is a lot going on. so give us the basic perspective of what is going on with all of these different voting rights efforts. >> so we're seeing a lot of highly partisan efforts to make it harder for some people to vote. they do appear to be targeted in some ways to ensure that in particular the republican party right now might be perceived to have a better chance of winning some elections. but what i'm also very concerned about are unprecedented efforts to inject toxic partisanship into the counting of ballots and the

certification of election results that occur during election and after an election, where you're going to see potentially chaos from things like what we're seeing in texas, where they're introducing efforts to allow for partisan poll watchers to roam free in the polling place, interfering with the process. where we're seeing efforts to criminalize activities by professional electors who are trying to make it more secure for elections to be run. it could be potentially a national security issue. >> dickerson: i'll get to the national security issue in a second. we have two baskets of concerns here. one is getting to the polling place and the right to vote. and the second is what doyose vs are cast and who gets to see them and question them. are those two the two basic categories? >> i think that is basically right. it is important to note these are all being based on a lie that the election somehow had some irregularities. we're well over eight months after the election.

the losing candidate hasn't brought forth any evidence considered by any court that has been valid that the election was not secure. in fact, this election was, as attorney general barr said and as the f.b.i. said, this was the most secure and transparent election we have ever held in american history. >> dickerson: reset the table here. how many actual people, humans, have been charged or anything with fraud in 2020 in the whole country? >> very few. it is a handful. i believe it is under 10 at this point in time. the total number of potential fraud cases -- 160 million voted, which is amazing. the total number of fraud cases is going to be measured in the dozens, not anywhere near anything that could have affected the outcome. >> dickerson: back to the two categories that you were talking about, the problems with voting and then the problems after the vote is cast. mitch mcconnell said

these are common-sense measures out in the country. they're just trying to unwind the measures that were brought in under the age of covid and restore things to the way it was before. is that an accurate characterization of the scope of things that are being suggested. >> i don't think it is entirely accurate. it is always a good idea after an election to look at what actually worked based on facts and maybe consider ways to improve that. there are ways to increase integrity while increasing access. what we're seeing in georgia, where they ran the most successful election, they ran two of them within a two-month period of time. they did this with paper ballots for the first time in two decades, and they were able to count every one of those presidential ballots three times in three different ways. we should be applaudithoseffort i think another thing that is really important, when we talk about election integrity, it is good when we have more people voting in different ways over a period of time. we don't want to have a

single point of failure on election day, where if something goes wrong, you can't fix it. if we have people voting by mail, people voting er early in person, we can actually find problems early and fix them so they don't affect the outcome of the election. that is a very good integrity measure. >> dickerson: if those ways of voting are limited, does that mean there is the opportunity for more chaos. there is more opportunity for chaos, and our american enemies love opportunities for chaos? >> that's right. we're in a highly partisan environment, we're at polling stations where there might be long lines, and partisan poll watchers have -- partisans might be tempted to overturn the will of the people and they're somewhat empowered to do that by their

legislators. this is something that -- this could be a void that our adversaries see and try to exploit in some way. >> dickerson: in about the last 30 seconds we have, tell me about what your sense is the pro spprospectto push back against e of these measures that we find alarming, certainly that democrats find alarming? >> we don't have many ways to fight back. we've gone seven months into the year. everyone needs to stand up and say this election was valid, it was secure, and applaud the election officials who ran it. secondly, maybe congress has a small window where republicans and democrats of goodwill can come together on some kind of bill that could establish a foundation for democracy that could get 50 votes. so far we haven't seen an election bill that could get 50 votes. so the filibuster isn't exactly relevant as of us. >> dickerson: we're going to have to cut you off. off. david, thanks so much.

and we'll be right back. [screaming] [music suddenly stops]

>> dickerson: last night the sanctuary of a summer night's baseball game here in washington was pierced by a terrifying interruption. the nationals and san diego padres' game was interrupted in the bottom of the sixth inning by a shooting outside the stadium. players quickly left the field; fans were asked to shelter in place. nobody inside was in danger, though outside three were shot in an incident that is becoming more and more familiar across the country. the game will resume this afternoon. captioning s

(upbeat cheerful music) hi, hello, everyone, i'm ukee washington. and i'm jessica kartalija. alexandra scott was a little girl with a big dream. she battled cancer and knew in her heart that she had to do something for other children, children just like her in the fight of their lives. alex decided to hold lemonade stands, fundraisers for her doctors and for her friends so they wouldn't have to suffer like she did. alex unfortunately passed away in 2004. she was just eight years old. alex's family made her dream their life's work, to keep raising money for better treatments and cures. we want you to hear more about alex and how years later her foundation is making a real difference, one cup of lemonade at a time. she was four and she was really sick herself.