captioning sponsored by cbs >> dickerson: i'm john dickerson in washington, recovery and brings fresh urgency to the country's vaccination push. along with the heat and the fires and the drought comes a fourth wave of coronavirus. cases, hospitalizations and deaths are all on the rise nationwide, with the contagious delta variant responsible for more than 80% of new infections. >> it has gotten a bit politicized, but i hope it is starting to change. it is not about red states or blue states. it is about life and death. >> dickerson: but severe illness and deaths are among those who are

largely unv wetaeon n d j adams. d thdee over f es mand. are anl variant? we'll check in with former f.d.a. commissioner dr. scott gottlieb. plus... >> biden: we know our economic recovery hinges on getting the pandemic under control. >> dickerson: we'll talk with commerce secretary gina raimondo. and we'll hear from kansas mayor quinton lucas, whose city is grappling with both covid and crime. last year there were a record number of homicides in kansas city. this year is on track to be even worse. what can be done to stem the tide. finally, we'll get an eyeopening look at the chaotic last yea theesidency wih

carol leonnig and philip rucker. it is all ahead on "face the nation." ♪ >> dickerson: good morning and welcome to "face the nation." the highly contagious delta variant is driving the country into a fourth wave of the coronavirus pandemic. infections continue to surge, and with less than half the country fully vaccinated, public officials are urgently trying to convince the hesitant so that the spike doesn't drag on into the fall. we begin with mark strassmann in atlantic. unvaccinated america is playing covid roulette with a mix of reluctance and defiance. and in places like new orleans, the dominant delta variant has pounced. >> it is more aggressive. it is deadlier, and it is in our community. >> reporter: nationally, new covid cases have

spiked almost 50%. rises in all 50 states, and 90% of u.s. jurisdictions. >> if you can, please get vaccinated. >> reporter: ominously, week to week covid hospitalizations and deaths both jumped again. >> we're in trouble. >> reporter: trouble because of deserted vaccination clinics like this. everyone has freedom of choice, even when it becomes your problem. governor kay ivey's problem in alabama, new cases up 766% in the last month, in a red state with one of america's lowest vaccination rates. >> folks are supposed to have common sense. it is time to start blaming the unvaccinated folks, not the regular folks. >> reporter: taken ken, since march 1st, 95% of all covid cases, 92% and all hospitalizations, and 89% of deaths were among

unvaccinated or partially vaccinated deaths. >> i'm more afraid than anything, i'll put it that way, than i would have been if i had gotten the vaccine. >> reporter: vaccination rates in the next few weeks may define this fourth phase of the virus. >> like how i saw my parents struggling to breathe. it took me to watch my parents suffer. >> reporter: and there is new vaccine pressure. the nfl warned this week that outbreaks among unvaccinated players could lead to forfeitted games and paychecks. and more universities and employers have started to impose vaccine mandates. >> vaccines are how we end the pandemic, how we protect our communities, and how we retire our masks for good. >> reporter: but for now, masking is back, not everywhere, but increasingly recommended, even required. across the south, school starts in a couple of weeks, and when it does, atlanta's system will require students and teachers to wear masks.

john? >> dickerson: mark strassmann, thank you. the world health organization is warning that countries are in the early stages of another global wave of covid infections and deaths. this comes as demonstrators in france, ialy, and australia took to the streets this weation pases and new lockdown measures. elizabeth palmer has the latest from london. >> reporter: good morning. the idea of vaccination passports is gaining traction in europe. six countries now have some version of them, and france has the strictest rules. there, it will be necessary to even enter many public places. and that kicked off violent demonstrations in paris. riot police tousled with protestors on saturday, which was dramatic, but actually a side show because most people have accepted the new rules. in the line for the eiffel tower, some showed bar

codes, others hard copies, and there was even on-site covid testing so anyone without a passport could get in too. police in sydney, australia, docked flower pots. august had kept covid at bay by closing its borders, but the virus sneaked in anyway, and infections are on the rise. in brazil, thousands of demonstrators hit the streets. but they're demanding more vaccinations and blame the president's bundled covid response for one the highest death rates anywhere. although currently argentina's is even higher. the countries are losing more people to covid than anywhere else on earth. asia is also hard hit. the olympics got under way in tokyo with virtually no spectators.

and dozens of athletes have had to pull out after testing positive. indonesia is overtaking in jakarta, families cud cued in the streets to by en and victims often fall ill and die at home. but there are stories of remarkable covid recovery. how about 102-year-old nicolai, who left the hospital this week, bursting with pride to have battled the virus and won. and there is some global good news, too: over a quarter of the adult population of this earth has now had at least one dose of coronavirus vaccine. and overall, deaths are on their way down. john? >> dickerson: liz palmer, thank you. and now we go to former f.d.a. commissioner dr. scott gottlieb, who is also on the board of pfizer. he joins us from las vegas, nevada.

good morning, dr. gottlieb. >> doctor: good morning. >> dickerson: let's start -- people are hearing about increasing cases, maybe wearing masks, even if you're vaccinated. and there is talk of breakthroughs if your vaccinated. you always want to start with the risk decisions that people have to make for themselves. so how should americans think about what is happening right now and how they should make their own risk judgments based on what you know? >> doctor: well, the first thing i would urge americans to do is to get vaccinated. we know that the vaccines are highly affective, even against this delta variant. it was showing that the vaccines are 88% affective against symptomatic disease. and if they get one now, they'll have protection through the fall and winter. whether your vaccinated or unvaccinated, if you want to add an additional measure of protecting you, if you're in a high prevalence environment, a mask can still be helpful against this new variant.

the physical characteristics of this virus has not changed. the reason it is more transmissible it is because there is more of it. the characteristics of the virus haven't changed, as far as we know. it is not more airborne, more likely to be permeable through a mask. so a mask can still be helpful. i think if you're going to consider wearing a mask, the quality of the mask does matter. if you can get your hands on a k.n.matic m n.mask or an n5 mask, that would be good. now there are plenty of masks. the biden administration has done a got job ramping up the supply. i would encourage people to try to get their hands on a better quality of mask. and the final piece of advice i would give is: if you are vaccinated, can you still spread the

virus? we had pretty good data if you were vaccinated, you were far less likely to transmit the virus. that's probably still true, but if you are vaccinated and you do develop an asymptomatic or mildly symptomatic infection, there is probably a higher chance you can transmit because there is just more of this virus. so if you're around vulnerable people, if you're taking care of a newborn born or an elderly patient, if you don't feel well, even if your vaccinated, you should probably get self checked out. >> dickerson: do we have a handle on this delta variant in terms of how much there is? and sos little more fus fuzzy than we might hoped? >> doctor: what we know is the virus levels you

get in the early course of this infection is higher than in the original version. but the other thing we know about this is the virus levels go up very quickly. that's why we think it is easier for this virus to overwhelm the immune system. if you get this new delta variant, it is easier for the delta variant to overwhelming low antibody levels. so that's why we're considering whether or not some people night need boosters. we know you have more virus on board earlier in the course of the infection and you are going to shed more virus. and it makes it more likely you'll develop an infection from this new variant. >> dickerson: there was a study done that says basically we may be in this period we're in now all the way through into

mid-october. the c.d.c. came out with numbers and said over the next three weeks, there may be between 90,000 and 800,000 new cases. s yousef w like a very big ng we'll b in thiri wre i >> doctor: people are having a hard time modeling this new variant. but, you're right, if you look at heading into the week of august 14th, the models that the c.d.c. put out estimated there is going to be anywhere from 10,000 infections a day over the course of that week to 100,000 infections. which is an indication they don't have a good sense where we're heading with this outbreak. i believe there is more virus than we're picking up. there is a lot of people with milder infections, and more of the infections happening in a younger population, that is less likely to become very systematic. more of the testing we're

doing is antigen tests that are being done at home and not getting reported. so i think we're much further into this epidemic that we're picking up, and hopefully further through this epidemic. if you look at the u.k., and we're probably three, four weeks behind the u.k., they do, in the last seven days, appear to be turning the corner. it is unclear if that is going to be sustained. they just lifted a lot of the mit dpaition mitigation then place. we are perhaps furp further into this epidemic and will turn the corner in the next two or three weeks. >> dickerson: in hindsight, wouldn't it have been better if the c.d.c. tracked the breakthrough cases on vaccines, so we would have a clear view of how possible it is for a breakthrough, and how much you might be able to spread, even if you've got a very mild case once you've been vaccinated? >> doctor: i think that is absolutely the case. right now the c.d.c. is only tracking breakthrough

affections when people get hospitalized. we know the vaccines are very good at preventing hospitalizations in florida. 95% of the people hospitalized are people who are not fully vaccinated. we need to understand if vaccinated people are developing sub clinical and mild infections, and whether or not they can spread the virus. and we're simply not tracking that. so we're depending on other nations, like israel, on answering those questions. the question i get from vaccinated people is whether or not they can spread the infection. they were far less likely to spread the infection with the other variants. we don't know a lot about this delta. the c.d.c. should be looking at this. >> dickerson: in the last 40 seconds we have here, those having kids going back to school, under 12years old, and the vaccine is not available, whatr sen when mevailabler tse under 12. >> doctor: pfizer is one

of the companies developing this, and it is a 10 microgram vaccine, which is a milder dose. the clinical data from this trial, looking at this 10 r childages five to 11, should be available in september. it is unlikely to be available before mid-winter because i believe that the f.d.a. is likely to require at least four to six months of followup of the children in that clinical trial. so it puts it more in the wintertime frame. >> dickerson: dr. scott gotten lgottlieb, thanks, as always. and we'll be right back. elderly patients with dementia-related psychosis have an increased risk of death or stroke. call your doctor about unusual changes in behavior

or suicidal thoughts. antidepressants can increase these in children and young adults. report fever, stiff muscles, or confusion, which may mean a life-threatening reaction, or uncontrollable muscle movements, which may be permanent. side effects may not appear for several weeks. high cholesterol and weight gain, and high blood sugar, which can lead to coma or death, may occur. movement dysfunction, sleepiness, and stomach issues are common side effects. and you can pay as little as $0 if eligible for your first 2 prescriptions. when bipolar i overwhelms, vraylar helps smooth the ups and downs. >> dickerson: we go to dr. jerome adams, the u.s. surgeon general in the trump administration. he joins us from indianapolis. good morning, doctor. >> doctor: good morning, john. good to be with you. >> dickerson: let's start with the comments by governor kay ivey of alabama, which is a state atiorates.ad very low

i've seen you out talking trying to conjole and convince people. she said folks are supposed to have common sense, but it is time to start blaming unvaccinated folks not the regular folks. it is the unvaccinated folks that are letting us down. how do you think that is going to go over? >> doctor: i think everyone has a different approach and different levers. i think there are a lot of people out there who have legitimate questions and legitimate barriers. for instance, there are people who have access issues. they're gig economy workers. they are people who are scared if they take the vaccine and have side efects, they're not going to be i believe to go in to work the next day and they may miss out on a paycheck. and you asked dr. gottlieb e o clear timetable on when we can expect f.d.a. licensure of this vaccines for adults.

and, number two, i can tell you the quickest way to get people vaccinated is through mandates. and we can't have mask maippmandates -- if you want to get a bunch of people vaccinated really quickly, get the vaccines licensed and you'll see the military make it mandatory and businesses make it mandatory. >> dickerson: let me ask you about the governor -- she said people are letting us down. can we do a brief public service announcement here? a lot of people have talked about the vaccine as individual choice. others, who have been vaccinated, say what do i care if people don't get vaccinated, i'm protected. can you remind people why it is important beyond just the bou boundaries of your own body to get vaccinated. >> i say to people, it is your choice, but choices come with consequences to you and other people. the consequences to other people is that you may putyearae who can't get vaccinated

at risk. you may put my wife, who is going through cancer therapy, at risk. or my mother who had a stroke last year in the middle of the pandemic at additional risk. but there is also real harm to you. because, guess what? more mitigation is coming, whether it is masking or closures or whether it is your kids having to return to virtual learning. that is coming, and it is coming because this pandemic is spiraling out of control yet again, and it is spiraling out of control because we don't have enough people vaccinated. so get vaccinated because it helps your neighbors. but get vaccinated because it is going to help every single american enjoy the freedoms we want to return to. >> dickerson: you w a piece saying that the c.d.c. should change their guidance on masking, even if you're vaccinated, you should get masked. why do you hold that position? >> doctor: well, we need to learn from what happened in the past. and in the past, i i was reflecting back on my own statements about masking,

and i wish i had been humble enough to understand that this is a new virus. i wish that my message had been heard differently. and what i said and what dr. anthony fauci because saying save the medical masks for the medical workers. but what people heard was that masks don't work, which was not the message that we were trying to send moving forward. the c.d.c. put out new guidance in may. and that guidance, quite frankly, had confused citizens. it has frustrated businesses, and public health officials who i continue to hear from. vaccinations are down, and cases are up. so it is time for the c.d.c., if you don't want to call it,, if you don't want to say we're changing the guidance, let's call it a clarification. y'r ccinated and you're around other people who are vaccinated, you are still probably safe. when i'm around vaccinated

people, i still don't wear a mask. but if you're out in public, and you don't know if they're vaccinated or not, and especially if you're in a community where prevalence is going up, as dr. scott gottlieb said, it is safest for you to mask, whether or not your vaccinated. and the businesses that don't have a good way of knowing who is vaccinated or not, they are going to find they have no other choice but to call on people to mask. they have to clarify the guidance that they have out there. >> dickerson: how affective do you think that will be? i think of florida and governor desantis who has basically built an argument on pushing back against the mandates. when the c.d.c. suggested masking for those under 12 in schools, he said, no, we're not going to do that here. so the c.d.c. can issue guidelines, but there are a lot of people who are only too happy to push against those guidelines. >> doctor: well, there is always going to be

exceptions. one of the great things about america is that we have the ability, state by state, for people to do what they feel is best for their state. but the fact is for every person that you point out, like a governor desantis, there are a number of health officials who say if you give us cover, we're going to move in this direction. businesses will still be able to lean on c.d.c. guidance and say we're doing this because of the c.d.c. guidance. wal-mart said we have no way of telling who is vaccinated, so mas no masks for everyone. we've got to give those folks some cover. >> dickerson: doctor, a record number of overdoses last year, this is an issue you worked on. why is the overdose number up? >> doctor: john, this is personal to me, as i've talked about before. i have family members, my own brother who is suffering from substance abuse disorder. in 2020, we saw numbers skyrocket. we had a record year, 70

that is people sadly died of drug overdoses. we blew that away last year because of covid. 93,000 people died. we know that both isolation from covid, and stress from covid, and also cut off from resources, 43% of people reported decreases of services available through syringe services programs because of the pandemic, have combined to cause this explosion, and it is disproportionately affecting blacks and browns. >> dickerson: we have 20 seconds, what's the next step? what can be done? >> doctor: i'm working with the bipartisan policy committee. i want to applaud congress for combining their mental health and addiction task forces. we need to ramp up teleservices, which came about because of covid, which is the silver lining in terms of making services more available. there is hope, but we've got to pay attention to it.

>> dickerson: dr. adams, thank you so much for being with us today. we'll be back in a moment. stay with us. [music stops] and release. [deep exhale] [fast upbeat music resumes] [music stops] ♪ we've all felt this gap. the distance between what is, and what could be. while he's tapping into his passion, the u.s. bank mobile app can help you tap your way to your savings goals. without missing a beat. so, you can feed his passion. ear plugs not included. ♪ u.s. bank. we'll get there together.

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♪ >> dickerson: welcome back to "face the nation." we turn now to the economy and the impact that the covid resurgence could have on the recovery. commerce secretary gina raimondo joins us. good morning. thank you so much for being here. >> good morning. >> dickerson: you said this week if you're asking me what can we do to get our economy back on track, get vaccinated. give me your sense -- you talk to businesses all of the time, what are some specific ways in which -- i saw that apple is delaying reopening their headquarters for a month. what are some specific ways it is affecting businesses? >> at this point, this is a pandemic of the unvaccinated. 97% of people in hospitals are unvaccinated.

so what every business leader that i know is just encouraging every employee and every member in their family to get vaccinated so that when they come back to work, a lot of businesses are planning on full back in the office post-labor day. they're saying, you want to feel safe. you should feel safe. you should feel comfortable. we want you back in the office collaborating, so that means get vaccinated. i don't sense -- i will say this: we are not where we were a year ago or six months ago by any stretch. we have highly affective vaccines. so the push now is: get vaccinated. >> dickerson: i want to talk about going back to the workplace in a minute. tourism is one of the folks -- you tried to help the tourism industry that was hurt. there was a big sellout on monday and a lot of the stocks that were hurt were tourism stocks.

>> it really does come back to making sure everybody is vaccinated. you know, i think that people are not nervous because they know these vaccines are incredibly affective. on the different variants. there, you know, i think a frustration by those who are vaccinated with those who aren't vaccinated, saying it is so simple. it is free. it's easy. limited side effects. let's get this done. >> dickerson: speaking of "let's get this done," there is an infrastructure bill that is bouncing around. where do things stand in the bipartisan negotiations to get infrastructure passed? >> very close. we're in the final strokes, the final days. we're optimistic. we're all engaging daily, multiple times a day, with members of the senate. and we're feeling really good about it. >> dickerson: so if it gets through the senate, you get the 10 republicans you want and the 50 democrats you want, but nancy pelosi has said she

is not going to send the se. ovenoer see todd a lot o complexity. you've got to do that before you get this infrastructure thing you want. how is that going to work out? >> this is complex. this is unusual and complex. but it is what americans want. it is what americans deserve. i tell you, when i was governor, if i ever worked on an issue where i had both the chamber of consumers' and the local afl/cio, saying they supported it and get it done, i knew it had to happen because it was the right thing to do. and that's what we have here. i hear from business leaders every day: get this passed. we need everyone to have broadband. we need improvements in roads and bridges. you hear the same thing from labor and progressives. yes, it is complicated. no, we're not there yet, but it is going to happen. >> dickerson: the hurtles are not just the republicans, but the has to be worked through with the democratic leader of the house? >> absolutely. but i know this: if there

is one person in washington who knows how to get things done, it is speaker nancy pelosi. and she knows this is what the american people want, and so -- i'm not going to pretend this is easy. this is complex. but we make progress every day, and we feel optimistic. >> dickerson: let me ask you about the jobs picture. the president was asked in the cnn townhall, a restaurant owner said, i am having trouble hiring people. the president was pretty candid. he said basically people are looking to make more money and looking to bargain, so he said i think your business and the tourist business is going to be in a bind for a little while. so how is that going to work out? wages are going up, people want mo more, but if hiring is not happening, businesses are going to have trouble staying afloat. >> there is some of that, to be sure. the thing i think we all really have to keep our eye on, in addition to wages, is child care.

a lot of people who work in these jobs are women, waitresses worki, working at a hotel, so schools have to open, child care has to come back on line, and we have to pass the president's family plan which provides for child care tax credits, investments in home care. women are in these jobs, and they're struggling to juggle between taking care of their kids and going to work. >> dickerson: small businesses say the massive businesses, they can offer child care and give inducements to help women back, but our small businesses, we can't do it. >> absolutely. that's why the president is calling for every 4-year-old in america ought to be able to go to public pre-"k." it is good for families and buses ry recently about a woman who had to give up her job as a paramedic because she couldn't find home care

for her autistic son, and she started working for uber so she could keep her kid in the car with her. >> dickerson: you mention work places, people coming back to work after labor day. there seems to be some tension between c.e.o.s who want people back, and surveys who show people want to stay with the high-brid environments. thinking of child care as a part of that, how do you see that getting worked out? >> we need better, higher-quality, affordable child care. i do hear from businesses all of the time that women are turning down promotions. some of their star employees, who are women, they want to get a promotion, and women say i can't do it because i have child care needs, or women aren't coming back into the workforce. we still have two million women who fell out of the workforce who haven't re-entered. you talk about infrastructure, and yes, we need bridges and roads to get to work. women need child care so they can get to work, and

it needs to be affordable. i think it is core to our competitiveness, to have a better kind of family-care infrastructure in america that is affordable. that's affordable. >> dickerson: all right. secretary raimondo, we're out of time. thank you so much for being with us. >> thank you. >> dickerson: and we'll be right back. ♪ we've all felt this gap. the distance between what is, and what could be. while he's tapping into his passion, the u.s. bank mobile app without missing a beat. so, you can feed his passion.

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[fast upbeat music resumes] [music stops] >> dickerson: we go now to kansas city mayor quin quinton lucas, who joins us from kctv, in fairway, kansas. good morning, mr. mayor. >> mayor: good morning. >> dickerson: the chief medical officer at the kansas health system said they're past the tipping point. we spoke last week with the spring field mayor who said they had already passed the tipping point. is that something you're considering with the uptake in covid cases in kayann? >> mayor: absolutely. we continue to work with our hospital leadership

and ask our friends in jefferson city to help us not just way vaccines, but to make sure we can handle any type of crisis that would come to our hospitals. we have been pushing and clamoring for months with positive messages about vaccines, and making sure we're ready with hospital spaces to address the current crisis. >> dickerson: last month you said you were crntd concerned about the inability to break that 40% threshold of vaccination. there has been some help from the department of housing and human development, and health and human services have been helping kansas city to get people vaccinateded. 38.8% of the population has been fully vaccinated. what is the sticking point? pay low.nk they're we need to make sure we're

reaching out to young people. young men of color is a place where we have incredible weakness right now. that's why we're not only being as creative on how we reach out in regular media, but we'll go to hip-hop kimbe concerts and country music concerts. and we continue to have to push back against negative messaging. some of that messaging from this state from people running for the united states senate, who are saying that the federal government is trying to kick down your door and get a vaccine. what we're trying to say is this is safe, and it is important for yourself and your family. >> dickerson: you talked about compulsion. in st. louis, they're reinstated the mask mandate in some instances. are you rethinking that as the delta variant spreads? and how does the mask mandate question go win scoincideand conflict with the

message you're trying to send about getting vaccinated? >> i think every mayor of a major city in america right now is wondering if it is a time to return to mandates. we had thought at this point thus far it is not necessary for kansas city. as the secretary of commerce just noted, 97% of the cases we're seeing in hospitals are from those who are unvaccinated. so breaking through to that population -- and i think when you think about that population, maybe about half of our unvaccinated folks are those who want to fight and think this is all just fake. but there is another half of folks who just haven't done it for whatever reason. in terms of compulsion, we are giving more consideration to requiring all of our 5,000 city employees to be vaccinated. i think that is something i do encourage more businesses, more american local and state governments to consider that has an important step for how we can show how important it is for our jurisdictions. >> dickerson: i want to

switch to the topic of crime and violence. when you came into office, you said you were committed to having fewer than 100 murders in kansas city. the homicide rate went above that and set records. what's been the big challenge for you in terms of combating those homicides? >> mayor: you know, we can say it forever, but firearms. firearms trafficking into our state. most of the guns used in crimes in kansas city, all of the guns used in my city, chicago, st. louis or others don't start out in kansas city or chicago. we need an a.t.f. who will work with us. in my state and it is happening in more american states, red states, and in the south and the midwest, they passed new laws that prohibit or make it a crime for our local law enforcement to work with federal agencies on certain issues particularly as it relates to gun trafficking. we're running into more and more hurtles in how we

fight crime. we will continue to work with our young people and opportunities with everything under the sun, but most of our murders are committed by firearms. we have too mary. too many that are sold illegally in gun shows, and we need take sure we limit that. >> dickerson: the attorney general was in chicago, and they're focusing on five cities. kansas city is not one of them. could you use a little more federal attention on that issue of gun trafficking? >> mayor: you know, we've had a wonderful relationship with the white house so far. i've appreciated this administration. i will note something different from the last administration: when they are working with us, they call us in advance. vwe have long conversations. so we will continue to reach out to the white house and many others to make sure we can have more resources. but back to the point from before, we just want an a.t.f. that is able to do

what it ispoo, stopping the illegal trafficking in firearms. focused on preventing violent crime. those are the this tha cities. we've had generations of doing the same thing. traditional enforcement records don't work the same way. getting the tools of weapon and working with young people are working to change our crime numbers in kansas city. >> dickerson: you talked about community programs, particularly with tiers teenagers that were decimated or shut down during covid. how much will last long after the pandemic is gone, in terms of the community efforts to help with teenagers? >> mayor: you know, i don't think any of us would mislead the viewers in saying that this was not a tough year in terms of losing very important community programs with young people who were excited to be a part of

them. here in kansas city, we brought ba back mayor's night hoops, and we're trying to engage with people as much as possible. this is kind of the challenge of covid-19. as we have a delta variant rising, as we're seeing more concerns with community events, particularly indoor events as we get to the cold-weather months, we want to make sure we can keep doing them. we are bringing them all backment we hope we can keep having them, and that includes getting people vaccinated, including very young people. >> dickerson: mayor, thank you so much. good luck to your community. and we'll be back in a moment.

>> dickerson: we turn now to a new book that chronicles donald trump's final year in office. carol leonnig and philip rucker are the authors of "i, alone, can fix it". carol, your first book ended after the firs first...impeachment, and the second book has another impeachment. is there a line between the two impeachments? >> absolutely, john. what is striking about

that timeframe, the president learned during the first impeachment that he is untouchable, there is no consequence for his behavior, no consequence for tretching a law, bending it, breaking it. in a criminal situation, if he weren't president, a lot of people would argue he violated the law the first time around and as well the second time around. so as he becomes more emboldened, he rejects the advice of experts. he is the expert now. he rejects the suggestions of his closest advisors if it is not what he wants. unfortunately, in 2020, it is no longer a p.r. spin game. it is actually a crisis that puts all of us at risk, and american lives are lost as a result. >> dickerson: we learned exactly the wrong lesson before the pandemic? >> absolutely. >> dickerson: fill, you both covered this, in the daily minutiae, was there

anything that you saw as you went over this and looked at it from a slightly higher perspective that comes when you have to sit and write a book? >> john, when we were covering this for the daily post, we thought we knew it all. but it wasn't until trump left office and carol and i did this deendat down with 140 cabinet members and senior administration officials and advisors that we learned how much worse it really was. how close the country came to the bro brink of democracy falling. the fears that general milley had, that trump could actually use the military to execute a coup to stay in power, despite the popular will of the voters to elect joe biden. it was a horrowing year and horrowing final few months. >> dickerson: carol, when the president, after surviving the first impeachment, had this new

armor that nothing could touch me, how did that affect the people around him? were they unable to do anything, or were they saying, yes, i'm getting behind that armor and we're going to do great things? >> i sort of see the presidency in the halves as a result of the reporting that phil and i did. in the first half, there are a lot of adults, guardrails that are holding the president back from some of his worst impulses. and they are largely successful. after that, however, and sadly in 2020, when real crisis hits, most of those guardrails have been ground through. and a lot of the people around the president know that they're not going to succeed unless they say yes or pitely. there is another thing that phil and i learned that sort of made our jaws drop, which is we didn't know this in realtime or we would have told the american people, many people who were the most ardent supporters of the president were afraid to counter him because they

were afraid who would replace him. would it be worse against orders to vaccinate people before the vaccine was ready. would there be loyalists who would do what president wanted all of 2020, was to sic active military on protestors. >> dickerson: when you interviewed the president after words, he said that was his greatest regret -- what did he say about the black lives matter? >> he said it was his own regrets. he has no regrets about how he handled the pandemic, about the hundreds of thousands of lives lost. his one regret is that he didn't send active military into portland and seattle and minneapolis and washington to go after the black lives matter protestors. these were people

demonstrating against the law enforcement, and trump wanted to send the military into the streets to silence them. >> dickerson: carol, when you look back at the administration and talk to aides, you get sort of two sides. some who say it wasorse than i thought. and then there were those -- i get e-mails from the nixon administration who -- it is like it is 1972. what did you experience? >> even the people, those who were so, so loyal, left with sadness and disappointment of what happened. i'll give you an example without naming sources, and we interviewed more than 140 people who were on the front row to this rollicking ride. we learned in our reporting that robert redfield, his biggest dispyrotdisappointment he confid to aides he could not

convince donald trump to wear a mask. he knew not only would it protect the president, it would send a message to the american public. he believes thousands of lives could have been successful if he had been successful. he tried convincing the president's physician, sean connelly, please reach out to him. the president resisted. he thought it made him look weak. and connelly said to redfield, i'm so sorry. you know what it is like when you have a patient who doesn't listen to you. >> dickerson: what was the principle that drove donald trump? >> the principle is how do i better myself and my political fortune. that's what trump thought about every minute of every day in making decisions, throughout the four years of the presidency, but especially in his final year. as the crisis hit the american people, the pandemic, the racial justice crisis, he thought every single moment of that time, how do i look better for the november

3rd election. and that's what was really troubling to the people who served him and confided this in us. >> dickerson: help me figure out this puzzle, carol, if that is the mindset, why isn't the president talking about vaccines more. he could say "operation warped speed," this is a huge success. get vaccinated. why has he responded in the way he has? >> in terms of good governing, sadly this fits the pattern of donald trump. for example, everyone who served him told us -- i should say everybody with interviewed on this subject told us, it would have been so easy for him to protect american public health if he had just listened to his doctors. if he had just said, according to his medical experts, wear the mask, the vaccine works. but what he was focused on was the daily, hourly, weekly news cycle. i'm going to win the optics war. this was the trump tool kit that wasqu

for a real crisis. and what phil and i were warned about by sources when we warned the first book, this guy's tool kit is going to and inadequate. >> dickerson: we've run out of time. carol and phil, thank you so much. and we'll be right back. acute manic or mixed episodes of bipolar i in adults. full-spectrum relief for all bipolar i symptoms with just one pill, once a day. elderly patients with dementia-related psychosis have an increased risk of death or stroke. call your doctor about unusual changes in behavior or suicidal thoughts. antidepressants can increase these in children and young adults. report fever, stiff muscles, or confusion, which may mean a life-threatening reaction, or uncontrollable muscle movements, which may be permanent. side effects may not appear for several weeks. high cholesterol and weight gain, and high blood sugar, which can lead to coma or death, may occur.

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>> dickerson: that's it for us today. thank you so much for watching. we'll be here again next week. join us then. for "face the nation," i'm john dickerson. ♪ captioning sponsored by cbs captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

(upbeat music) - get ready to travel across america meeting the future stars in the world of sports. we'll meet a potential major league baseball draft pick in dallas, and stop in kansas for an all-american basketball player. we'll also meet a pair of two sport athletes, one in houston and another near tampa. and ladainian tomlinson joins us for this week's journey to greatness. those stories and more, coming up next on "sports stars of tomorrow". (rock music) welcome to "sports stars of tomorrow". i'm your host, charles davis. over the next half hour, i'll be introducing you to some of the top high school athletes