captioning sponsored by cbs >> i'm major garrett in washington. this week on "face the nation," the perilous evacuation of americans from afghanistan continues. the ensuing chaos puts the biden administration on defense. the situation at the kabul airport is increasingly dire, as the united states struggles to get americans and the thousands of afghans who helped fight the taliban for the last 20 years out safely. the biden administration is working to ramp up evacuations, but it is facing a nine-day deadline to complete the mission. >> biden: any americans who want to come home, we will get you home. make no mistake: this evacuation mission is dangerous. i cannot promise what the

final outcome will be. >> taliban leaders are in kabul, working to build a new government, as the criticism about the president's handling of this crisis grows. >> biden: there will be plenty of time to criticize when this operation is over. now -- now i'm focused on getting this job done. >> we'll get the latest from secretary of state antony blinken, and we'll hear from former u.s. ambassador to the united states nikki haley, and former u.s. ambassador to afghanistan, ryan crocker. plus the crisis here at home as tropical storm henri threatens the northeast coastline, and the potential forb flooding is cause for great concern. and with more schools open this week and with cases and hospitalizations and the number of deaths continuing to surge, the delta variant will undoubtedly get worse. we will talk to republican larry hogan and dr. dr. scott gottlieb. it is all just ahead on "face the nation."

♪ >> garrett: good morning, and welcome to "face the nation." we begin with the storm threatening the east coast. henri has been downgraded to tropical storm status, but that doesn't necessarily mean the threat is any less severe. jeff berardelli is on long island, and, jeff, what are you seeing? >> yeah, major, this is the worst it has been. we've been seeing gusts 55, 60 mile-an-hour. things are getting worse. but the core of the storm has missed us to the northeast. take a look behind me. pounding surf. we've seen swells 10 to 15 feet, and now we have this sideways rain running right towards us. the storm is located near block island, near the coast of rhode island to connecticut, where the worst is likely to be.

and we'll see about five feet of storm surge as the storm makes its way on shore, and couple that with a full moon, and that makes it worse. wind gusts up to around 80 miles per hour, and that means we're liking to see some power outages, as well as all of the heavy rain that you can see. >> garrett: jeff, for those in the path of this storm, how concerned should they be about the potential of flooding? >> yes, so this could be what this storm is remembered for. i mean, last night in new york city, the concert was canceled. hundreds of miles away from the center of henri, we had all of that heavy rain. the reason why? upper level low connected the mid-atlantic through a tropical connection, and so we have a little trough that was set up that dumped rain to the tune of five to eight inches of rainfall. we'll see this storm kind of slow down as it moves inland, dump heavy rain

way away from the center. that means we'll see life-threatening flashflooding. it is having major impact. >> garrett: we want to go now to kris van cleave in old saber, connecticut, as residents brace for landfall. kris, tell us what you're seeing? >> reporter: people are told to evacuate. the concern here is going to be the amount of rain and the wind. here in connecticut, they have warned about 69% of its costumers could be left without power. and they say so restore the power could take eight to 21 days. think about that, three whole weeks. this dumped another three to six inches of rain. theothey're worried about flooding, and in about a half hour, high tide that could lead to storm surge.

>> garrett: heavy weather is coming. kris van cleave, thank you. we turn to the increasingly volatile situation in afghanistan. holly williams reported now from london. >> reporter: there is terror in kabul as they clamor to escape the islamic extremists who seized control of afghanistan. this man says he was a translator, and he is seeking refuge for his wine and two-month-old baby, who is worried won't survive. just imagine the despair that drives a mother or father to do this: passing their baby over razor wire to american soldiers. u.s. troops and their allies appear on edge, trying to calm a situation that has lurched out of control. some afghans have been crushed to death, and some have been killed trying to cling to planes.

for two decades american troops have fought the taliban. nearly 2500 laid down their lives. now as the u.s. has a hasty retreat, they're separated from the militants by similar barricades. a u.s. official told cbs news that isis could use the chaos to carry off an attack. at a press conference this week, a taliban spokesman vowed the group would not seek revenge and promised to respect women's rights within the framework of islamic law.[speaking foreign language] >> reporter: many afghans simply don't believe them. like this woman, who says she used to play basketball for the national team. >> and they're scared, and i'm scared because i'm a girl. >> reporter: there are already reports of the taliban going door to door hunting for those who worked with foreigners and

threatening execution. >> garrett: holly williams reporting from london. cbs news correspondent roxana saberi is in the region, and she filed this report from doha. >> reporter: at this air base, thousands of evacuees have been flown in from afghanistan over the past several days. the pentagon says that u.s. troops have already air-lifted around 25,000 people out of the country. the facility here has been so overwhelmed by the influx, it hit capacity two days ago. and flights from afghanistan had to be suspended for several hours. there are now reports that the u.s. government will compel commercial airlines to help ferry tens of thousands of evacuees. several people have described for cbs news the conditions. one was a man we met on the flight from afghanistan last week, who said he was a former translator for the u.s. military. he said it was crowded, very hot, and one shower for thousands of men and women.

now cbs news has learned the u.s. and qatar are building extra space and installing more showers and toilets to accommodate the evacuees. they're also trying to screen them faster and ease the crowding by flying them to countries like germany and the u.s. we do get the impression that everyone here is trying their best, and despite the difficult conditions, the evacuees are grateful for the help they've received. many now face an uncertain future outside their homelands as refugees. >> garrett: roxana saberi reporting from doha. a new cbs news poll out this morning finds americans are unhappy with the turn of events in afghanistan and president biden's handling of the withdrawal and evacuation. 74% of those surveyed say the removal of u.s. troops has either gone very badly or somewhat badly. two-thirds says president biden, to their minds, does not have a clear plan for evacuating u.s. citizens. americans also fear wider repercussions. six in 10 say the threat of terrorism will not increase with the taliban

in control of afghanistan. these negative assessments, however, have not shaken most americans attitudes about leaving afghanistan. they still support that, but they are critical of how it has all been handled. and this has hurt president biden's overall approval ratings. they have dropped 8 points since last month. we go to the state department, and secretary of state anthony blinken. good morning to you, sir. >> good morning, major. >> garrett: your counter-part, jake sullivan, says the united states has secured or is looking into alternate methods to move u.s. personnel from where they are to the karzai international airport. what specifically can you tell us about that? >> first, major, we've gotten about 8,000 people out over the last 24 hours. if you go back to july, when this effort really started, we got about 30,000 people out between our military flights and the charters we've organized to get out of kabul and out of

afghanistan. but we've seen these wrenching scenes of people crowded at the gate, people hurt and killed, and it is an incredibly volatile situation, and we're very focused on that. first, we're moving people out as quickly as we can from inside the airport and out of afghanistan to alleviate crowding at the airport so we can get people inside. and second, and most importantly, we're in direct contact with american citizens and others, and we're able to guide them the best way to get to the airport, what to do when they get there, and that is the, i think, safest and most affective way, to get people there, get them in, and get them out. that's what we're focused on. one other point: we also have agreements with more than two dozen countries on four continents to help service as transit points or relocation points for people getting out of afghanistan. as we finish processing them and during security

checks, and that, too, i think is going to alleviated some of the boldbottlenecks we have seem in the system to enable this to flow for quickly. >> garrett: can we get precise on this, when jake sullivan says "alternate methods," does that mean they're going to find americans and bringing them safely there? >> the best way and the most effective way is to be in direct contact with them and to help guide them in, to give them instructions on where to go, when to go there, and then we can bring them into the airport safely and effectively. >> garrett: so they're still basically on their own getting into the airport? >> we found the best way to do this is to be in direct contact with them. we will do whatever it takes to get americans home and out of harm's way. >> garrett: civilian airlines are being added to the mix. why and what is that going

to look like? >> there is a process by which we can ask civilian airlines to join in this effort, not to bring people out of kabul, but to bring them from these different staging points that we have arranged, like any said, with nearly two dozen countries around the world, because once they're there, they will spend some time there, when we can finish processing them and doing security and background checks, and then they move on to their ultimate destinations. we need more planes in the mix to move them from these initial points of landing on to the places they will ultimately resettle. >> garrett: how long will the karzai international airport remain open with the united states military? >> what we're focused on is getting as many people out as fast as we can and as safely as we can. it is also important to note that the taliban has said it intends to keep the airport open, it wants a functioning airport, and

he has made a commitment about the safe passage of people with no deadline attached to it. >> garrett: do we have a deadline, mr. secretary? will it stay open after august 31st? >> again, our focus is making sure every single day we're getting as many people out as fast as we can. >> garrett: all the people -- obviously you have said our people and the afghan interpreters, and does that umbrella term extend to n.g.o.s that have help throughout the 20 years in afghanistan? >> yes -- major, two things: obviously american citizens are our first priority, and allies and partners, we're committed to them and helping them get out. and also, to your point, afghans more broadly at risk. but our focus is on getting americans out if they want to leave. >> garrett: the president said we have an

agreement with the taliban. mr. secretary, that implies we're negotiating with them. does that not confer upon them already legitimacy? >> no. we have, for a long time, had contact with the taliban both at a political level in doha, going back some years, as well as now on the ground in kabul, a working relationship in order to deconflict, in order to work through any problems with people getting to the airport. that's been very important to making sure that we can actually advance our own interests in getting people out safely and affectively as possible. so that is the nature of the relationship. >> garrett: some might listen to you, mr. secretary, and say, oh, we have to ask the taliban for permission for american citizens to leave. true or not true? >> they're in control of kabul. that is the reality. that is the reality that we have to deal with. >> garrett: how comfortable are you with that, mr. secretary? >> what i'm focused on, what we're all focused on,

is getting people out and making sure that we're doing everything possible to do that. and in this case, it is, i think, a requirement of the job to be in contact with the taliban, which controls kabul. look, what we've seen, major, is also pretty remarkable. go back a week. the government fell -- and, by the way, i was on the phone with president karzai the day before, when he was telling me his intent, as he put it, to fight to the death. the next day he was gone. the military collapsed. in the space of that week, our military went in, secured the airport, got our embassy to safety at the airport from the embassy compound, began this remarkable evacuation effort. as i said, we got about 8,000 people out in the last 24 hours. and going back to the end of july, it is 30,000 people. that's extraordinary. it doesn't just happen. a tremendous amount of planning went into that, including a lot of

pre-planning. >> garrett: mr. secretary, you may have heard in our poll that 60% that we talked to fear there is more threat in the united states because the taliban is in control of afghanistan. are they wrong? >> remember, major, we went to afghanistan for one reason, one major purpose -- >> garrett: right now they're fearful. are they wrong? >> the threat of terrorism memetastasize out of afghanistan many years ago. we were able to vastly diminish al-qaeda. we're putting in place measures over the horizon, as we say, to act on it. we have terrorist threats that are more acute in other places in the world, and we don't have military on the ground. it has grown immensely,

and we're able to do things we couldn't do 20 years ago. if this threat reemerges in afghanistan, we'll dealwi >> garrett: secretary blinken, we thank you for your time. >> thank you for having me. >> garrett: "face the nation" will be back in just a moment. please stay with us. quickly stop my migraine in its tracks within two hours. unlike older medicines, ubrelvy is a pill that directly blocks cgrp protein, believed to be a cause of migraine. do not take with strong cyp3a4 inhibitors. most common side effects were nausea and tiredness. serena: ask about ubrelvy. the anytime, anywhere migraine medicine. make fitness routine with pure protein. high protein. low sugar. tastes great! high protein. low sugar. so good. high protein. low sugar. mmm, birthday cake. try pure protein shakes. with vitamins and minerals for immune support. the live better u program basically just provides the answer to the question: what if?

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there. they withdrew our troops before they withdrew the american people, and they abandoned our afghan allies, who kept people like my husband safe while they were overseas deploying. no, there was no negotiating. this was a complete and total surrender and an embarrassing failure. >> garrett: do you believe that the biden white house has to talk and negotiate with the taliban now just to ensure american safety as this evacuation continues? >> our american people there are our number one priority. now they have to do whatever it takes to get our americans out. there is -- you know, people like my husband, you ask any of our soldiers, any of our men and women, they would go in there in a second to get our americans out. now it is a matter of doing whatever it takes to make sure we have them taken care of. this is an unbelievable scenario, where letter rliterallythe taliban has our americans held hostage. it is a scary time. we have to make sure we're working with our allies

who literally won't trust us at this time and think we have lost our way. >> garrett: someone you know well, mike pompeo, stood alongside one of the taliban founders and helped negotiate this deal in which president trump signed an agreement to have the united states forces out earlier this year. did that set in motion what we're seeing now? >> i think everybody wants to go back and talk about trump. the truth is under four years of trump, afghanistan was safe. we made sure we kept terrorism at bay, and that we came from a strength of position. what has happened with seven months of biden, we completely surrendered and humiliated ourselves in the eyes of the world. there are times when you have to negotiate with the devil, but you negotiate with the devil from a point of strength. you don't do it from a point of weakness. we literally have no leverage with the taliban. all we're going to see them do is they're going to buy time and act like they're going to be nice

until august 31st, and then all of those women and girls -- everything is going to go back to the way it was. you'll have sex slaves and child marriages and girls no longer allowed in school. you'll have our americans, any that are there will be in danger, and all of our afghan allies will be killed if we don't do something. this is serious. the biden administration needs to go back and extend that august 31st deadline and make sure that the taliban knows they've got to let people into the airport. we've got to get our americans out. we've got to stay true to those afghan allies that we made promises to, and we've got to make sure we do this in a very strong way going forward. >> garrett: yes or no question: should the united states expand the prim maperimeter around the airport? >> we have to do whatever it takes. the americans we need to get out are not near kabul. they're on the outskirts. the afghan allies are out there. they can't even get

through the check points to get to the airport. this is a time where we need to have a list of our americans. we need to make contact with where they are. and we've got to go get them if they can't get to the airport. i can't believe that biden got it so wrong that he said no americans were having a hard time coming to the airport. he said al-qaeda was no longer in afghanistan. he said our allies were fine with what he did. either the people around biden aren't telling him the truth, or he is not thinking in a normal way. something is very wrong here. this is not about partisanship, major. this is about america and strength and making sure we get americans out of there alive. i'm extremely concerned about the safety of our men and women in the military. i'm concerned about the safety of our americans that are still there. i'm concerned about the safety of our afghan allies. you cannot trust the taliban, and you have to really deal with them in a way that they know we're going to hold them accountable, and we are coming at this from a moment of strength.

>> garrett: before you let you go, madam ambassador, do you understand it to be true if president trump had been re-elected, he had an evacuation withdrawal plan on paper that would look fundamentally different than the biden administration? >> let's be clear: president trump wanted to see soldiers come out of afghanistan. it is not about that. it is not what you do, but how you do it. he never would have pulled our soldiers out without making sure americans and all of our equipment and weaponry was out beforehand. he would never have allowed the taliban to take over afghanistan without conditions. anyone who wants to say this was already set in motion, it is not what was going to happen, it is how it happened. it happened in the most embarrassing, humiliating way that really angers soldiers like my husband and all of those that sacrificed. it puts us in danger that you've got al-qaeda and the taliban holding hands in the streets of afghanistan, now saying death to america.

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♪ >> garrett: welcome back to "face the nation." for more on afghanistan, we turn to ryan crocker who served as the u.s. ambassador to afghanistan. mr. ambassador, good morning. earlier this week you said you had grave concerns about president biden's capacity to lead. what specifically did you mean by that? >> what i meant by that, major, is the way not only how his decision was made to withdraw, but then the execution, which has been, so far, catastrophic. you know, we've got desperate people, american citizens, other afghans we

helped, you name it, doing anything they can to get out of kabul. and we will all remember those horrible images of afghans who had clung to a wheel well on a c-17, dropping out of the sky to their deaths. so the execution -- so the decision and the execution, and the execution in particular does not speak to competency. >> garrett: when you talk about capacity, are you saying anything else outside of what you just articulated, meaning execution and decisions? >> well, major, we've got to be fair here and a little bit honest with ourselves. president biden didn't create this whole scenario. president trump did by engaging the taliban in talks without the afghan government in the room. it began a process of

delegitimate factor -- that said, president biden owns it. he has taken ownership of the policy. he has taken ownership of the envoy who negotiated this thing. so lots of blame to go around here, but it doesn't all fall on president biden. >> garrett: in the next week, mr. ambassador, what are you most afraid of? >> i am afraid that as the taliban gains more control, as they settle in a bit more, they are going to go after all of those in afghanistan who have spoken the truth, who have been in the media, who have represented the institutions of this young democracy, and certainly those who have helped us directly, like the teamptds. interpreters. i'm very much afraid this is going to get worse.

the chaos might subside, but as it does, i'm worried you'll see the taliban methodically take cav care of those he sees as enemies. >> garrett: senators and house office members are creating, if you will, satellite state departments, trying to use whatever means they have, e-mail, cell phone calls, to try to work on behalf of either constituents of those they have come to know in afghanistan, to get them out. what does that say about the functionality of the current state department? >> well, with respect to state department personnel, among my heros are those state people out at the airport right now, during everydoing everything thn to make this process work faster and to work better. that said, there are capacity problems, and those and the front lines did not create those problems and they're not in the position to fix them. it is incredibly important

that we concentrate now on getting those folks out. as we speak, i am involved in an effort to get a particular prominent person out of that country before it is too late. it is kind of like the dunn kirk evacuation. it didn't need to be this way. mike mccaul and i did a joint op-ed at the beginning of may, when we said here is what the administration needs to do if they're going all the way out, which we opposed. they've got to have a way to get intelligence capabilities off-shore and keep our people safe. they have to take care of the american citizens, they have to take care of the interpreters, they have to take care of the women and girls who are particularly vulnerable. we put all of that out there three and a half months ago, and none of it was acted on. >> garrett: i'm going to

give you three countries, china, pakistan, russia -- have the events of the last two weeks made america weaker vis-aà-vis those three countries? >> it has created a global crisis, quite frankly. it has emboldened violent islamic radicals. i think we'll all see the fallout of that, certainly in pakistan. they champion the taliban because they felt they had no choice. well, the taliban victory, the narrative of defeating the great infidel, empowers radicals in pakistan, that they're going to have to deal with if they can. that is a country of 220 million people with nuclear weapons. they have taliban in the west. they're tuned in and definitely looking at what happened in afghanistan. and, of course, the russians have their own muslim population in very

violent places in the past, like chechnya. they might be doing a bit of high-fives, because what happened in afghanistan will not stay in afghanistan. it will be felt around the world. >> garrett: ryan crocker, we thank you, sir, very much for your time and expertise. we'll be right back with the latest on the coronavirus pandemic. it nourishes and strengthens my joints for the long term. osteo bi-flex, plus vitamin d for immune support. this may look like a regular movie night. but if you're a kid with diabetes, it's more. osteo bi-flex, plus vitamin d it's the simple act of enjoying time with friends, knowing you understand your glucose levels. ♪ jason, did you know geico could save you hundreds on car insurance and a whole lot more? cool. so what are you waiting for?

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worse. texas has low vaccination rates. a governor infected with covid leading a feud against mandate tory masking. and in houston, "k" through 12 schools open tomorrow. >> this powder keg, tinder box, however you want to phrase it, certainly could result in many more cases. and that means many more hospitalizations, many more children. >> garrett: this fourth wave of covid children get sicker quicker. cases of hospitalizations is up more than 200% in the last few months. nationwide, four of every five i.c.u. beds are full. nearly one-third of all adult i.c.u. patients have the virus. the vast majority, unvaccinated. oregon is overwhelmed. 1500 national guard troops back up frontline workers, and covid deaths are now up in 42 states. >> all of this...

>> reporter: more than 1,000 covid patients died on friday alone, sorrow that nearly doubled in two weeks. one counter-attack that is also trending: mandatory vaccines to get into certain businesses, to keep your jobs. that now includes all nursing home employees by september 30th. the f.d.a. is expected to give the pfizer vaccine full approval this week. doctors hope that will encourage reluctant people to roll up their sleeves. major? >> garrett: mark strassmann, thank you. we're joined now by maryland republican governor larry hogan. it is great to have you in the studio. >> good morning. >> garrett: i want to get to afghanista first. three questions there: what is your opinion of president biden's handling of the situation, how open are we going to be refugees, and what are you hearing from the state department on how to do that? >> first i think it is an

unmitigated disaster on the handling. i was the first governor in to say we wanted to take more of these people with visas. we've got to stand by them. we've got to get our americans out and those allies out there as well. we're going to do everything we can to help do that. we have a discussion with the state department tomorrow. we've already received some over the past week or two, into our state, and we're going to try to get as many as we can. >> garrett: is that information flow from states satisfactory to you? >> some of the information is a little spotty, some of that is understandable. >> garrett: the coronavirus, you said the pandemic is currently under control in maryland, is that true? >> we're the second lowest case rate and positivity rate in america. we've got 80% of our population over 18 that has been vaccinated, one of the best in the country. which is helping us keep this delta variant at bay. so while it is an issue, we're very concerned about the spread of the delta

variant all across the country, and it has impacted us. our numbers are going up, but they're going up from a very low place. we're better able to handle the surge than many other places. >> garrett: will mandates for masks or vaccines come to maryland under your watch? >> we've already taken some steps on mandating vaccines for particular groups of people. we started with state employees dealing in congregate settings, dealing with our nursing homes, in places like our correction facilities. and in conjunction with the hospital association and nursing home association, we mandated vaccines in those two facilities. we had a mask mandate for quite some time, which was lifted back on july 1st, but we're still strongly recommending masks for anybody who is unvaccinated. right now 100% of our hospitalizations and deaths are for unvaccinated people --

>> garrett: lut y but you will not reimpose that magic mandate? >> we make all of or decisions from the experts advice. >> garrett: some in our audience might know you are a cancer survivor. have you had the booster shot? >> as a matter of fact, i did. on the advice of epidemiologists and my own oncologist, people said immune composed people should get it. i got it on monday and i feel great. >> garrett: do you want marylanders to get their booster as soon as possible or wait this eight months interval? >> no, we can't wait that long. we're pushing to get the final f.d.a. approval, and hopefully that will come this week. two, we're pushing to speed up that timeframe. we're already preparing in our state to start doing boosters for our nursing

home residents and people in vulnerable populations. we want to get that final okay from the federal government. and we want to push to get it approved for the younger kids that right now can't get it. >> garrett: we've had vaccine full approval from the f.d.a -- it is coming in the next few weeks. do you think it will change the mindset of marylanders who have not been vaccinated? >> we did surveys, and the number one reason for reluctance was it was not f.d.a. approved. i think that will help. for instance, moving forward on the booster shots, on the third vaccines, that should help. >> garrett: school will reopen in maryland in the coming days. do you want those schools to conduct, as some public health officials have recommended, testing for every child once or twice a week? >> we have provided $1.2 million to our local schools just for that reason. we have provided the

resources for testing of all of the kids. part of the money goes to filtration systems that take care of the air to stop the spread, to slow the spread of the virus, and we're pushing to get those kids approved so they can get their vaccines. >> garrett: do you want those children to wear masks? >> right now we have left it up to the local school systems. about two-thirds have made the decision to make the masks. it is based on the facts on the ground in their particular area. >> garrett: there will be football games, professional, college, and high school, how should they be handling the virus? >> they've been taking pretty good steps. we have two professional football stames, the washington football team and the baltimore ravens, and they've got policies in place. masking inside. outside, they'll do some screening when you come in. the university of maryland, they've got a requirement for vaccines. i think somewhere, over

90% of their student population has been vaccinated. >> garrett: you are unhappy with some of your local leaders in the distribution of federal funds dealing with evictions. why are they not spending the money rapidly enough, and how are you leaning on them to accelerate that? >> i just got back from the maryland association of local conventions, with all of our local leaders, and we have provided $400 million of federal money and we provided assistance of people to help with rental assistance -- >> garrett: what's the hold-up? >> it is a bureaucratic kind of process. there are some federal hoops you have to jump through. it is not as easy as just handing out the money. >> garrett: do you need help from the federal government or for them to accelerate the pace of this spending? >> a little bit of both. some went to the larger jurisdictions, the smaller counties we immediately

got it out to them. but we're going to push at the federal level and say let's ease up some of the restrictions. >> garrett: for someone facing eviction, they're pretty frustrated. are you as frustrated as they are? >> i let some of our experts know this. we don't have as big of an eviction problem as some of the other states. >> garrett: larry hogan, republican from married, i appreciate the time. >> thank you. >> garrett: and we'll be back in just a moment.

>> garrett: we turn now to former f.d.a. commissioner and pfizer board member, dr. scott gottlieb. his book, "uncontrolled spread: why covid-19 crushed us and how we can defeat the next pandemic," comes out next month. dr. scott gottlieb, good morning. do we know in this country how many young people have covid-19 delta variant? and are we testing enough to get an accurate sense of that number? and how far off might we be? >> doctor: we may be very far off. we don't have an accurate settlement of that number. about 4.2 million kids have been diagnosed with

covid, but the notion is we're diagnosing just a small fraction of the kids ultimately contracting the virus. so there has been far more infection among children than what we're diagnosing because most of the infection is asymptomatic or mild disease. that doesn't necessarily present to a pediatrician for testing. this is really a critical question because it gets to the heart of whether or not this new delta variant is more pathogenic in children. we see more rising numbers of hospitalizations in i.c.u. units among kids, is it just we're just infecting a whole lot more kids. we're only seeing the numerator of kids who are presenting with more severe disease. i suspect it is the latter. i suspect the number of kids getting into trouble with covid hasn't really changed with the delta variant. the reason we're seeing rising cases in hospitalizations is because we're infecting a lot more kids with it. >> garrett: so doing the

math, we could have 10 million to 20 million kids, if i heard you correctly? >> doctor: there are 50 million school-aged children. about 8 million have been vaccinated. so the question is how many kits o kids have be exposed to this virus. when you start doing the math around the 4.2 million who are known to have been affected, we're diagnosing less than one in four cases. in the peak in the winter, we were turning over one in four cases in adults. we always knew the fraction in kids was less. we're doing less routine screening in children. children get milder symptoms on the whole, so they don't present to their pediatrician. >> garrett: so should school districts be testing on a regular basis when children return? when you say reg, regular, is that once a week, twice a week, more? >> doctor: it is ones a once a

week or twice a week. there is a movement in a lot of districts to use testing as a way to keep kids in the classroom. when you identify a case, rather than quarantining a whole school, which is happening in the south, as the epidemic rages there, some school districts are doing testing to test kids to make sure there is not other cases going undiagnosed, and then test in three days or four days to make sure there is not an outbreak in the school. i think the combination of kids wearing masks in the classroom to avoid spreading the virus with testing can allow the school year to go on without these large quarantines that we're seeing in some districts, while keeping children safe. >> garrett: on that question of quarantines, is that the proper policy response? >> doctor: well, again, i think a proper policy response might be to use testing more aggressively

to try to identify affection so make sure you're not having an outbreak in that setting. and make sure you're taking mitigation steps, with masks, proper ventilation. i think the combination of those two measures can create a safer environment -- ne environment, because schools aren't en hunterl inhery be safe, but they can are more safe. in one district in hillsboro, around tampa, 2,700 kids have been diagnosed with covid. about 6% are in quarantine. it will be very disruptive to the school year. once the districts go to a hybrid model or shutdown, it becomes very hard to restart a normal school year. so you want to prevent that from happening while keeping kids safe. i think testing could be used as a very affective tool to do that. >> garrett: are case rates beginning to peak in the south where the delta variant has hit the

hardest? >> doctor: that's definitely the case. if you go to covidestimate.org, which looks at whether it is expanding or contracting, they're showing the r.t., rate of tran transmission, is below one. there are still very hard weeks ahead because they'll continue to accrue more hospitalizations, but there is evidence that the epidemic is starting to slow, and the day over day cases are starting to decline. florida, which is the epicenter of the epidemic in this country, if you look across different age categories, every age category shows a declining number of cases day over day, accept for school-aged kids, kids aged 6 to 19. that's the only category that is still expanding, because what is happening, they're opening schools earlier in the south, against the backdrop of still a lot of rev prevalence. it is proving to be hard to control in schools.

delta variant is a very contagious variant. as schools reopen, the schools could become focal points of community transmission and can become environments that aren't safe for children if we can't control very large outbreaks from happening in these settings. >> garrett: doctor, do you expect the pfizer vaccine to be fully approved this week? and if so, what discoveries does that make? >> doctor: i'm on the board of pfizer, and we have reports that it will be af proved as early as tomorrow. i believe that once the vaccine is fully approved, it will give more impetus to some businesses and schools to give full vaccination. i also think there are certain consumers that have been waiting for this milestone, waiting for the full approval, and an indication that the f.d.a. is done evaluating the data set, to give them more confidence about using the vaccine. i would expect to see some uptake in vaccine

utilization, either by consumers waiting for full approval, or so for some businesses that are going to move forward with vaccine mandate. >> garrett: for your time and expertise, dr. scott gottlieb, we thank you very much. and we'll be right back. knowing your doctor can watch over your heart. ♪ lactaid is 100% real milk, just without the lactose. so you can enjoy it even if you're sensitive to dairy. so anyone who says lactaid isn't real milk is also saying mabel here isn't a real cow. and she really hates that. it's my 4:05 the-show-must-go-on migraine medicine. it's ubrelvy. for anytime, anywhere migraine strikes, without worrying if it's too late, or where i am. one dose can quickly stop my migraine

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>> garrett: that is it for us today. we thank you so much for watching. for "face the nation," i'm major garrett. ♪ captioning sponsored by cbs captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

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