plus, herbal and other immune superstars. only from nature's bounty. that means the church as will the broadening of the church. the berkeley where we might sing happy birthday but we also might be singing in christ there is no east or west. for we brought in our meeting in ministry on this day of pentecost. the last time you saw me was on easter. and i had 2 dynamic at that time. who told us a lot about easter. i was so inspired i asked him to come back.

so we are blessed to have carol estes and jim hopkins. welcome . you were so dynamic, youtube fo first time. and youtube celebrated its 10th year anniversary last week or last month. and therefore they celebrated by having us there. >> i did not get any word we went viral. i know a lot of people know a lot about easter. >> hopefully after hearing about pentecost -- but before we do that carol. tell us a little bit about your background and your ministry. >> i'm a native san franciscan. very proud to have been born and raised here in the city. a group of eight asheville district. close to golden gate park. graduated from the theological union in berkeley. i serve as a chaplain for the

palliative care department at kaiser. and i'm also a senior pastor at elmhurst united methodist church in east oakland. >> great great. and jim. >> on the son of the intermountain west. i was born in salt lake city, grew up in western colorado. college in oregon and graduated from fresno pacific college. i am currently back at asw as the chair of the board of trustees. it is such an important place in my life. what i learn there i cannot define myself without that experience. spent some time in los angeles and since 1989 i have been but pastor of lakeshore baptist church in oakland. we are dedicated to seeking the peace of our city. >> that's 26 years, right? great great great. without even giving you memo, you are in red.

tell us about pentecost. he was speaking to an audience, what would you say to him first carol? >> the cost is a time where the spirit is moving to empower the people. so instead of folks focusing on jesus, jesus is then turning the table around to say now it is your turn. you take it and you run with it. because we are the hands and the feet and the body and flesh of god. >> i like that. >> i'm thinking exactly the same way. knowing this day was coming, i called a little gathering of some folks in our congregation and said tell us what you think about pentecost. i represent you. and one of the folks at exactly the same thing. pentecost is the kind of graduation. as i have been

physically with you, now you, body of christ, you are going to be physically present empowered by the spirit in the world. it is time for you to step up in group. >> i like both of those spots on the holy spirit on pentecost. i'm of the bias that a lot of people do not put the emphasis on pentecost. we do on christmas, we emphasize lent and easter. but there is no emphasis on pentecost and the spirit. why do you think that is? or am i right about that? >> i would like to make, it is sometimes a very sad commentary for us. because folk in our humanist want to follow but not want to be doers. and so it is easy to say i am a follower of jesus christ. jesus is teaching, and lessons seem to indicate, more of doing

and partnering and participating. so sometimes we want to be couch potatoes and watch somebody else doing the work. >> thank you thank you. >> i think a couple things. when we speak of the holy spirit as holy ghost, i am not sure that there is an endearing term for a lot of folks and it is kind of confusing. the second is, for a letter church that are not necessarily really emotional or pentecost in their outlook, then they will say what does pentecost have to do with us? and we definitely can be empowered by the spirit without being pentecost the in our practice. and i think we need to claim that, the spirit moves with us whether we are in a quiet congregation or a loud congregation. the spirit is still present and active in living. wesley will come back to that. thank you for the introduction into pentecost. we are with carol sp's and mr.

hopkins. please stay with us.

welcome back to mosaic. we have been talking about pentecost and that is why we are in the red. red symbolizes the spirit coming on that day of pentecost. acts two, if you see a diversity of people responding to the spirit. we have talked a

lot about the spirit and your definition of the spirit. tell us a little bit more about what you think happened at pentecost. >> the questions could be asked about pentecost. was a primarily an auditory experience or was it primarily a hearing experience? was it speaking in tongues or hearing in a new way? i don't know if we can file back. but i know that listening is always very important. and pentecost is a challenge to listen and hear each other in new ways and trust that the spirit will be in the process of this this thing. and this is one way we can bind the nations and heal the planet. >> which after that carol? >> i as jim will say, it was definitely a process of discernment and the feeling. in feeling the movement in the present of the holy spirit that had not been present before. especially with the absence of

jesus. so there was more of a focal point of reference for them. what does that feeling, what is that movement? because when you have somebody who has such a dynamic personality, as i think jesus had, the energy can be focused there outwardly instead of inwardly. >> okay. you know i was looking at some of the scriptures on pentecost on this day. not only do you have asked 2 but you have genesis where you have the tower of babel, just the opposite happens. and then you also had an alternative passage of their in ezekiel. the dry bones. i'm not sure what you are going to focus on, but i was looking in to see exactly what the scriptures are. what is your approach to some of those scriptures? >> i always also like to add in john 19 where jesus comes into the closed room with the disciples. they are not behind doors and he breathed on them the spirit

and physical four-game. go forgive as i have forgiven you. being practitioners of forgiveness is one of the primary acts of the spirit filled community. >> i see, i see. >> and then go out also. as i was looking at it, go out and be amongst all people. that god is not a god of exclusion. that is why the spirit shows up representing so many different tongues, so many different languages. so that it says i am here and available and abundantly open and accepting of all people. >> i like that. you know in our society right now, we are going through a lot of racial conflict. starting with ferguson but even further back. we have the new york -- of course baltimore that still is on our heart and mind. do you see the spirit breaking down some of the divisions and the conflicts that are going

on? how would the spirit work in that, you think? >> it is a complex situation. complex and challenging. if folk were more willing to see that the spirit is in each of us, and that it is universal, and that is no difference, but the spirit is calling us to be humane towards one another. so that we can have a conversation about our differences, but our similarities. so that we can greet the light and the hope of got us and we can stop warring against one another. especially in our african- american communities. we need to see the light of god in the presence of the holy spirit moving in each and every one so we can stop doing harm to ourselves. >> very good, thank you. >> the spirit is about both truth and reconciliation. and we have to start with the truth. the spirit convicts us. the spirit reminds us of some

really harsh and awful realities of the racial disparities that continue to exist in our communities. disparities of opportunity and education. ultimately disparities will help. and the spirit starts first by convicting us of these. and then move us forward to reconciliation and hope. but there's no justice without some truth. and we've got to start with the truth. the things we see in the scriptures. the spirit sometimes convicted says this is not right. at least that's the first step to moving forward. >> excellent us by both of you. talking about truth and reconciliation, i talked the archbishop desmond tutu. bringing people together and asking them to confess and then give me something reconciliation comes. >> pentecost could result in a moment like that in our communities. >> it would be tremendous.

i did not know this until i read it the other day, he sounded among the people toise n shout vsp, vsp which means very special people. and he says we are very special people because god loves us. and we are made in the image of god. and that is not something we earn. it is a gift of god. so he wanted everyone to know that. and not just his own people but all people which you've been saying. >> on the cost we could say vsp is very spirited people. >> we are going to come back to this spirited conversation. and thank you for being with us. please join us with carol and jim hopkins. carol estes at elmhurst, and jim hopkins at lakeshore baptist.

welcome back to mosaic. this is pentecost and we have been talking about the power of the spirit breaking down barriers and uniting us and bringing us together. i was telling my colleagues in the congregation, i try to encourage them to wear rate in pentecost and they have at fairfield. i am really pleased with it. again, what are the symbols of red? >> the red is the fire, the spirit. the thrust of the movement of the holy spirit that just like us up. the vibrancy and the celebratory color. in different cultures they wear red instead of wearing black. because it is a marking of celebration. >> the tongues of flame dissent on us. carol said it exactly correctly.

>> you mentioned earlier that sometimes community they are not pentecostal or charismatic they don't have the spirit. the people who are pentecostal and charismatic don't necessarily have the spirit unless they have a lot of emotion. can you say more about that? >> that has been the tension in the life of the church since that first pentecost. paul talks about it. having to give and how does it fit into our life together. he says it is a gift but it should not be regarded as a marking. if you don't have it you are not really part of the family. shouldn't be in a sense of superiority. but he struggles with that. and he continues to be a struggle in our communities. i don't feel great pass and or if i am not ready to shout, does that mean the spirit let me out? i have to answer in my experience, no. the spirit sometimes is the still small voice. we have to own that perspective

as well. ? absolutely. >> i think the spirit most of all, and what you seem to allude to the fact, that he brings community that loves one another. and is able to proclaim that word appeared in here that word. >> and invites us to go outside and share that word. and what does that look like? it does not have to look like what you're sharing looks like. it does not have to look with jim sherry looks like. but it looks like, and a powerful peaceful way, and how the spirit is inspiring us communally and individually. it is about the good news. >> i came across this wonderful quote from helen keller the other day. she said the most beautiful thing in the world cannot be seen. and even cannot be heard. it would have to be felt with the heart. seems like pentecost, you are

able to see it and hear it in file. >> will, since you mentioned helen keller, for many of your viewers who do not know, i am visually impaired. and so as a result of that, folks often ask how is it that you know somebody has entered? i feel the energy. and i think that is where my first the ministry comes from is that internal feeling. i am always inviting folks to go in and feel the power of the holy spirit moving and empowering you and inviting you the activity. so that it may not be this magical mystical thing. it may not be something that is like powell. but it may just that silent lumen of the in motion that you can feel that brings you such joy, that warms your heart and changes you. in that state. >> imagine people who come to you for counseling will feel a great deal of that. is that because you think the

extra dimension you might think to have? >> absolutely. because i don't see you, i feel you. and i have to listen very carefully for the nuances that are being spoken that i might not see in your body which, in order for me to kinda get the gist of what is being said. because far too often we can trap in the external. we are looking out to see where is this moving? where is god moving? when god can absolutely be moving inside, but we are not listening because we are more focused on our physical scene. >> to hear people ask each other do you feel me? that could mean a lot of things . do you hear me or understand me? do you respect me? it can also be a very spiritual question. are we connect thing?

i think that is an important question for pentecost, do you feel me? >> that is great. >> i think it is important also to set an intention of peace inwardly. because that energy apiece can be felt outwardly. and i think when the young people are saying that, they are saying do you feel me coming authentically with peace. and i think the senior community. if we set an intention of peace. how that can be so pervasive in our communities. >> that takes us back to the baltimore ferguson new york oakland question. people who take to the streets. most of them, that is what they are saying. do you feel me? >> and do you feel our pain and how are we addressing that? >>.the king said the cry or the rise of the cry of the unheard. so we know that does not justify it but it explains some of the pain. >> absolutely. >> because i know a lot of

people say why are they writing? and we do not endorse that and embrace that. we heard along with that but we understand some of it. with the answers to the pain being expressed in the riots or the rebellion, however you want to phrase them. the answer to the pain is in some ways policy and law. but there's a spiritual answer. is at the cry for spiritual reality to speak to the pain. >> you alluded to the inequity in our society. it is just so right. >> with the pentecostal movement, i'm not saying a pentecostal movement, the pentecost of the movement, it is calling us to be at the table. that is why it was given to everybody equally. for us to be at the table and to hear one another. >> have to come back to our last segment. you brought tremendous enlightenment to the spirit. thank you for being here. these join us for our last

segment here on mosaic. it is going to host these eat guests with us.

>> it has been a great joy to have this program on pentecost. i mentioned earlier that we were on youtube. and i am sure this will be on youtube thanks to kpix because this is a lot of information about pentecost.

but it is because reverend carol estes of elmhurst united methodist church and reverend jim hopkins of lakeshore has been with us. in our final few minutes, what would you add to what you said? anything that we can walk away with? because you said so much. >> i'm thinking about during may at lakeshore, we have this emphasis on caring for creation . and on pentecost we are going to talk about the importance of fresh air. with the spirit of fresh air and the challenges to all of us is received a breath of fresh air and be fresh a breath of fresh air in your community. and play with that analogy and how important fresh air is in this planet right now. >> i recall when i oakley you are active in the community. community organizing. some of that still affects her ministry i'm sure. >> effective the authorization organization called california interfaith power and light,

ecological consent creation care concerns. yeah pentecost a breath of fresh air. >> is right. i think grace church has a lot to do with it. >> yes i think it comes out of grace church. >> carol. >> recognizes that pentecost comes after 40 days after easter . and that is the celebration of the resurrection. it is our gift that we are being given through pentecost, through the spirit, to be empowered. to be motivated and inspired. to get up and become active and go out into the world and do some good. do some good. as we talked last time in our community we are building our garden any this is growing and growing and growing and we are inspired simply by the spirit of to feed people. to address the needs where there's a food desert. so i say be empowered by the

holy spirit. be not afraid. it takes each and every one of us to become actively involved to make a change, and a change for the better. >> aman. perfect love casts out fear. you've expressed that great. >> the garden is putting oxygen back in the environment. >> and good food folks bellies. >> we only have a few seconds but christmas is a long time and. easter as a time. pentecost sometimes is that one day. we should expand that. >> we have to do more to do what we can in the time that we can. and not let it just be about one day. but that we keep going back so that we can refresh our memories. >> you talked about broadening in the christian calendar, ordinary time bottles pentecost and some folks gone from

changing ordinary time to owing me thu both.mhis on >> 1659 83rd avenue right off of plymouth. we sit right on the corner in the sunshine. >> lakeshore, corner of lakeshore and bandanna write line take you for being with us. please join us in their worship services. and you are welcome to my way out in fairfield in community. i'm ro ve yisrninon

live from the cbs bay area studios this is kpix5 news. a deadly truck crashed takes the life of the east bay high school student and injures five classmates. plus, details on the service member from northern california killed in thursday's attack at the kabul airport. we are tracking your quality and the big question now, when is it going to improve