and look for common ground. we found common ground. we found common grounds on military equipment, on chokeholds, on providing ptsd mental health. we found common ground on a number of areas. instead of moving forward on the areas where we were in agreement, they simply walked away. >> brennan: you just detailed all those points of agreement. >> yes. >> brennan: senator cory booker, who was your partner in this -- this started under the trump administration and continued under the biden administration. with republicans it went nowhere, and then with democrats it is going nowhere. >> the folks that left the tail are the democrats, let's be clear. we said, simply this: i am not going to participate in reducing funding for the police after we saw major city after major city defund the police. many provisions in this bill that he wanted me to agree to limited or reduced funding for the police. that is a lose/lose

proposition. when you reduce funding for police, you actually lose lives in the community. our approach was a win/win approach. we want the best wearing the badge, and we want the vulnerable protected. so when you tie funding losses in this legislation, you should expect an allergic reaction from me. >> brennan: they would say that there wasn't a net loss of funding. in fact, there was funding being increased in terms of increased mental health funding, specifically. that there were specific programs for recruitment and training funding increases, body-worn camera increase. so that is not cutting funding. it might be allocating it in different ways. >> here is what we know: we have about a billion dollars in grant money that goes to police. when you start saying in order to receive those dollars, you must do "a," "b," and "c," and if you don't do "a," bmpleghts, "b", ad "c," you literally lose money. when you tell local law

enforcement agencies you're ineligible for money, that is defunding the police. there is no way to spin that. you can spin it by saying -- >> brennan: but the -- >> let me finish. the trump executive order i actually agreed to. what i do not agree to is the cuts that come from non-compliance. when you say in order for you to receive money, you must do the following, and if you don't do the following, you lose money. that is more defunding the police. we saw that throughout the country. >> brennan: cutting funding for underperformance -- >> not at all. >> brennan: you want to increase to police departments that aren't doing their job? >> what the democrats asked for was a simple thing. they asked for more reporting on serious bodily injuries and death. i said that's a great idea. when they wanted to nationalize local police, i said that is a bad idea. when they say that every

single traffic stop in this country must be reported to the federal government, whether it is a traffic ticket or stopping someone on the streets of new york or charleston, every time you have any interaction, for the federal government to be in charge of all of that information, i say let's do it, but let's do it voluntarily. >> brennan: people at home watching this say this was a moment that was missed. this just looks like it is playing politics -- >> i do think they're playing politics. >> brennan: what about the republicans -- >> they're at the table. >> brennan: it is a very affective political line -- >> margaret, if we're going to be fair to the american people to get the whole story, you must allow me to have a conversation about the issues i've been working on for the last two years. >> brennan: let me ask you a question -- pime going to give you the answer, defunding the police. >> of course not is the answer. why would i be at a

table -- i'm the person who has lived in the communities that we're talking about. i'm the person whose experience and challenges we're trying to solve. i'm the person who understands and appreciates this issue intimately. if you want to keep our communities safe, you have to properly fund the police. >> brennan: the issue that for you sunk all of this had to do with funding related to data collection about traffic stops -- >> no. you asked me for specificity. i gave you an example. there are eight or nine parts of the bill where the answer the democrats put on the table was reducing the funding to thepolice. when you have one issue, we can work that out. when you have eight different areas of the legislation that reduces funding, that's a different conversation. now you're talking about defunding the police. you may not like that as a statement, but it is actually what you can read in the language of the bill. >> brennan: senator booker has said --

>> all you have to do is read the areas of the bill that actually reduce the funding. that's available. >> brennan: so that's a big point of disagreement between the two of you -- >> only if you can't read. >> brennan: you are saying senator booker can't read? >> if you read the legislation, it is pretty simple. this is not something i'm making up and we can debate our facts. we can say in several different areas of the bill it reduces funding. >> brennan: i want to also ask you about immigration. you didn't seem to have a problem when president trump adopted title 42, which allows for those migrants crossing the border to be compelled without first being guaranteed asylum hearings. it was justified under the pandemic. the biden administration kept those things in place. do you have a problem with what the biden administration is doing with the compulsion of migrants now? >> i was for a strong border under president trump, and i'm for a strong border right now under president biden. >> brennan: so when it

comes to the question of the haitian migrants the white house has basically said it is embarrassed about what has happened in the past week and a half, do you think that it is justified and what you have seen on camera with some of these thousands of haitian migrants being forcibly expelled, some of them rounded up by men on horseback. is what you're seeing humane? >> i think president biden and his administration owns the crisis that they've created at the border, and the humanitarian crisis that is unfolding before every eye in the american public. >> brennan: but it is the same policies under the trump administration. >> the treatment, obviously, is different. that's why his people have resigned from their posts. it's the possibility -- >> brennan: the envoy for haiti, you're talking about? >> thank you. it is the responsibility of the president to secure our borders. president biden has not done so. the crisis of his own making looks very similar to the one he made in

afghanistan, the one we're experiencing with taxes and spending. yes, this president should do a much better job of avoiding crisis that are avoidable. >> brennan: the president has said, those people, the men on horseback, which at times looked like he was whipping some of the haitian migrants, he said, i promise you those people will pay, those agents. should those agents pay? >> i think he should hold accountable his agency, absolutely. >> brennan: we have invited senator booker to appear next week to respond to senator scott. we'll be right back. check out dexcom.com/inrange. today, you have to deal with a lot of moving parts. you want everything to be on autopilot. and to be prepared if anything changes. with ibm, you can do both. your business can bring data together across your clouds,

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>> brennan: we'll be right back with a lot more "face the nation." so stay with us. ♪ oáuuq

>> brennan: welcome back to "face the nation." congressional democrats are in a stalemate over spending priorities. progressives say 3.5 trillion worth of spending

is the top priority. moderates want to finish up the other package. moderates say the 3.5 trillion is too steep and needs to be paid for. and we're also headed for a government shutdown unless congress can agree on an extension of funding when the fiscal year ends. pripramila jayapal joins us now. >> good morning, margaret. >> brennan: i want to have your reaction to the conversation we just had on police reform. senator scott specifically referred to the city of seattle, right in your district, as an example of what goes wrong when you cut police funding. the crime has gone up. does the senator have a point when he says this just shows it is not time to reduce funding for police? >> margaret, i just have to take everyone back to eight minutes and 46

seconds, that's what we're talking about. the eight minutes and 46 seconds that led to george floyd's murder. the chokeholds and everything that has been happening across the country with breonna taylor. the reality is we need real accountability. i think senator scott was just not willing to admit he doesn't want real accountability for our law enforcement to treat people human na humanely and wih dignity. we have to transform public safety or we're not going to give black and brown people a fair shot. >> brennan: he argued that democrats were the ones to walk away. we'll check on that conversation next week. democrats control the white house, the senate, the house, a slim majority, as you know. president biden said to reporters on friday he told progressives and moderates that they need to focus less on the number and more on their priorities. speaker pelosi said today that it is self-evident

this bill will not be $3.5 trillion. have you agreed to compromise and give up some of your requests? >> yeah. what we said is we are happy to hear what it is that somebody wants to cut. we have not seen any negotiation back from the senate. we understand we have to get every democrat on board from the house and the senate. we don't have the margins to do anything but that. the key thing is not the top-line number. it is what is it that you actually want to fund? because if you want child care, if you want paid leave, if you want to take on climate change, if you want to repair housing in this country, if you want to make sure people have health care, there is going to be a price tag that goes with it. >> brennan: but it will be less than $3.5 trillion, as the speaker suggested? >> let's talk about what people want and let's come to the number from that. if somebody wants less than $3.5 trillion, tell us what you want to cut? do you want to cut the child care? do you want to cut paid

leave? and then let's figure it out from there. president biden said something important, this is a zero-dollar bill because it will be completely paidfor with paid pay the wealthiest -- >> brennan: taxes could go up at leave 2% or those making between $200,000 or more a year. so it is not no cost. >> the president has said people making under 400,000 will not pay more. we will make sure of that in the package we put together. but we want people who are making billions through the profits, not reporting their taxes, not being held accountable by the i.r.s., to pay their fair sh >> brennan: when it comes to the things you have to prioritize, what about free community college? the president threw that out as an example, and mentioned adjusting for cost of living and things like that. are you open to that? >> we're open to whatever

negotiation that is out there. on means testing, we saw what happened when we put in tons of barriers in the rental assistant program. people didn't go through. if you have a 25 page questionnaire to see if they qualify, people are not going to get the help they need. we need to make it as easy as posible possible to get this assistance out to the people who need it the most. >> brennan: i want to ask you about immigration. homeland security says 4,000 people have been expelled back to their country. others will be appearing before a judge. are you satisfied with how the administration is han handling this crisis? >> i am not. i think we have a responsibility to be humane and compassionate and create alternative pathways for people to be able to get here who are struggling. sending people back to a

country that has been torn apart, where there is no food, no water, no opportunity, is not the way to handle this. i'm looking for the administration to come out with humane pathways and alternatives in those countries to be able to get people here quickly, and to be able to make sure we are upholding our values as a country. >> brennan: congresswoman, good luck in the week ahead. we'll be watching the negotiations. we want to dig deeper into the president's challenges. a gallup poll out this week has his approval at 43%, which is the lowest in his presidency. who other what we turn tovtumrs! joins us this morning from new york. john, how are you? >> good morning, margaret. i'm well. >> brennan: so democrats hae control here. we knew, as we were just speaking about with the congresswoman, there are some disagreements within the party itself. how does the president solve this? >> well, he solves it by

convincing the party to do as much as it can, given the tight political realities that congresswoman mentioned. they are those narrow margins in congress. they need to do this because failure would be worse. jayapal represents the progressive, and the other side is represented by terry mccalluf. he said voters didn't send democrats to washington to chitchat. they need to get this done. he was talking about a host of policies he thinks is important, and his argument is that the districts that are battlegrounds in the next election and the states that are, have a more diverse electorate. it is not packed full of progressives, and the democrats need to appeal to that more diverse electorate. joe biden has a lot of challenges, but these challenges are all within his own party. he is the leader of those

party and these are challenges he has to solve. >> brennan: you put your finger on why there is this rush to get things done before 2022, but this new poll out from pew shows that the president's approval rating is down with young voters, some 14 percentage points, and down 16 points among latinos, and 18 points among african-americans. these groups really helped deliver the white house to president biden. so how can he deal with anger among these particular parts of the electorate? >> you know, when you go to a political rally and somebody shouts into a bull horn, what do we want? nobody shouts back incremental progress. [laughter] >> the people who turn out in mid-term elections, terry has his view, and says it is a more diverse electorate. in mid-term electorates, people who turn out are the most ardant supporters.

they see the human cost of not having child care paid for or not having a good start in pre-kindergarten. and if they did all of this work to put joe biden and the democrats in power, and these programs are broadly popular as polling shows, why did they do all of this work if they're getting such weak tea from washington? this is also a challenge for the president. even if he can get some things passed, he has worry about the progressives. one of the challenges will be even if something gets passed, how the president and the party sort of bind up their own bruises and convince progressives that they got as much as they could and that they should keep fighting. >> brennan: you know, it is not just about theq-1 aspirations of what needs to change. it is the lived experience. on their kitchen tables, they're seeing that the cost of food is going on. they're experiencing some of the economic slowdown. so is it too soon to say that the president is underdelivering, you know, eight months in?

how do we judge where we are now? >> well, there is a paradox in the presidency, which is: the president should be judged very heavily because he is the only place everybody can take their complaints. he represents the whole country. and so he should get the pressure of this because it has a political benefit: it motivates his team. on the othernz & presidents, inherited a whole host of challenges.and sot abouhoee whealle aree coming from the presidency. >> brennan: john dickerson, always great to chat with you. thank you. we'll be right back. i never realized that i loved running. this is incredible. i really worry about lows to the point where i let it get in my way for years.

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[music stops] >> brennan: the u.s. and china appear headed towards confrontation. to push back against china's military buildup in the pacific, president biden brokered a new defense partnership with australia, and will sell it self-nuclear-powered

submarines. that decision came at the expense of u.s. ally france. we spoke with australia's prime minister on thursday. thank you for joining us. >> thank you, it is great to be here. >> brennan: what is the biggest threat you see from china? >> well, we're resilient to foreign affairs. we're resill amiento to resilient to whetherthere are at come from cyber or any other forms of interference. >> brennan: so why do you need u.s.-made nuclear submarines? >> because australia's defenses depend on having a long-range. australia is a long way from everywhere. in order to ensure our security interests are best protected, we need to have a long reach and a long-range. >> brennan: but you needed them faster than what the french was delivering you? you switched to nuclear-powered submarines -- >> that's right. >> brennan: we're talking about in china's backyard. you need some military

support, no? >> conventional submarines can no longer meet that need in the indo pacific. >> brennan: are you looking at an arm's race with china, because that is what the chinese have warned, that is what this is a signal of? >> we'll be moving from our conventional state of submarines, and to be able to replace that with a fleet of nuclear submarines with higher capability. there is an increased militarization of the indo pacific for many, many years. so the escalation pre-dates our decision. >> brennan: but are you concerned that this could be read by china as a reason to feel more threatened. do you believe it puts a target on your back? >> i believe it should be. and that's really our point. australia has every right to make decisions in our sovereign interest, to work with our partners, to create a more stable

region -- >> brennan: do you epect retaliation for this? >> i see no reason why there should be. >> brennan: you haven't spoken to the chinese president in well over a year. things are not very friendly -- >> the phone is always open at our end. the door is always open at our end. there is no australian obstacle to a direct dialogue between australia and china. but that opportunity, the china side have not felt interested. they're always welcomed. >> brennan: would he take your call? >> whose? >> brennan: have you tried to call the chinese president? >> that's not something that is interested at the moment. >> brennan: he doesn't want to take a call right now? >> no. >> brennan: how real is the threat of military conflict in your region of the world? >> i certainly don't see it as inevitable. i think it is all completely af voicial. avoidable. those issues will be resolved between the united states and the

french and china. >> brennan: they were not happy though lost their contract for the marines. a defense contractor in france says it is sending you a bill for $66 billion. do you intend to pay that? >> i think that is a rather extraordinary claim. >> brennan: do you think there is any wrong-doing? >> no. we had a contract for procuring submarines that had gates in the contract which gave us the option. had we proceeded, then as prime minister i would have been negligent because i would have been going forward with a massive and very costly contract that would not have done the job that australia needed done. >> brennan: do you regret not being as direct -- ae known as being direct -- why weren't you direct -- >> you're assuming i wasn't. we were very clear that we had deep concerns that conventional submarines would no longer do the job. we had discussions about

that. and at the end of the day, we didn't see the situation the same. the french obviously thought their submarine could still do the job. we didn't believe that was the case. as a result. we decided not to pursue them. >> brennan: australia is one of the few western democracies that has put in place some very, very strict covid protocols. you shut down your borders 18 months ago. when will they reopen? are you going to have vaccine passports? when will australians be able to leave? >> we will see our international borders, particularly for australians to leave and return -- that will occur before the end of the year. it could happen well before that. with the vaccines, that is improving our resilience, and we'll be able to open up those borders. i'll tell you what shutting those borders did: it saved about 30,000 lives in australia. it is around about