cang snsored by cbs >> brennan: i'm margaret brennan in washington, and this week on "face the nation," the standoff between democrats on capitol hill continues, and our covid death toll reaches a new milestone. and democratic budget battles reached new lows, and tensions within the party are at new highs. house progressives, backed by the president, won this round as they blocked a vote on that trillion infrastructure bill that passed the senate in august with bipartisan support. it's not that they don't like it. they're holding it up until all democrats get on board with the massive $3.5 trillion bill devoted to spending, for social programs and climate change. moderate democrats in the

senate, like joe manchin and kyrsten sinema say that's a price tag that is too high. >> this is not giving out money. this is not spending. this is investing and building. >> brennan: and they're both feeling the heat from the left. >> all the thing to do is we have to elect more, elect more liberals. >> brennan: so is president biden. he announced he is going on a road trip to sell his proposals. >> biden: we had hurricanes and floods and little things like -- anyway, a lot is going on. a lot was going on. >> brennan: the president says he has been busy, but promised a new focus on his domestic agenda. >> biden vowed he is going to do this. biden is going to work like hell to make sure we get both these passed. >> brennan: can he reunite the party and fix the mess that has become the subject of late-night shows. >> can't we compromise on

anything? isn't something better than nothing. >> brennan: alexandria ocasio-cortez will be here, and we'll ask her that very question. plus new jersey senator cory booker on prospects for police reform. he'll respond to our interview last week with senator tim scott. and although delta variant cases are starting to slow, west virginia is in crisis. we'll talk with jim justice, dr. a anthony fauci, and d dr. scott gottlieb. it is all ahead on "face the nation." ♪♪ >> brennan: good morning, and welcome to "face the nation." these are interesting times here in washington. we're used to the political battles being back and forth between republicans and democrats, but today we find ourselves in an

increasingly polarized debate between democrats. the factions in the party, the progressives and liberals, and the moderates. we do begin today with a key progressive, new york representative alexandria ocasio-cortez. congresswoman, it is great to have you here in studio. >> great to be here. thank you. >> brennan: so you have this standoff right now. how real is the risk that the democrats end up with nothing? >> you know, i know that -- you know, i believe that the entire party is committed in delivering for this country. and i know that our caucus, the house democratic caucus, is entirely focused on delivering for this country. but i think the question that we're having right now, and the reason why we are having this discussion right now, is because we don't want to leave communities behind. and all too often d.c. politics, you know, when we have to make a compromise, the folks that get compromised are

lower-income, working-class families. it is health care. it is communities of color. and we want to make sure we're fighting for all of us, not just some of us. >> brennan: which is why you're using your leverage right now to hold up the other trillion dollar infrastructure bill. but the head of your caucus, the progressive caucus, was on another network this morning, and 1.5iio ju j too small. that's the number that senate moderates, joe manchin in from particular, want to go down. ed o'keefe, our correspondent, says you're going to have to settle for about $2 trillion. is that an acceptable ceiling for you? >> here is where i think the problem is: when we talk about top-line numbers, there is a lot that is hidden in that discussion. and so the reason why this conversation shouldn't be about numbers, but it should be about what

substantive programs are willing to be excluded -- >> brennan: but this is coming from the white house. >> but the white house isn't making the demands to exclude universal child care, this is coming from the wing of the parties. washington is notoriously funny, and you can make a $3 trillion bill -- a $1 trillion bill into $2 trillion, so that's why we need to talk about the substance of this bill. the biden build back better agenda includes universal pre-"k," free community college, expansion of medicare and medicaid. these are the things that we are saying, in addition to the very real climate threat that we have, emissions reductions, are worth standing up for. >> brennan: but a $2

trillion ceiling means you're going to have to maneuver here somewhere. the head of your caucus said you're looking at shorter funding periods so inste tucking. >> yes. >> brennan: what is non-negotiable there for you? >> bring up an excellent point, in that the fact is we do have to compromise with the fact that we have senator manchin and sinema who refuse to support certain programs for working families. so the compromise is an option that we have before us, and that is do we shorten our funding program? do you reduce the level of funding? do you cut programs out? i think that one of the ideas that is out there is fully fund what we can fully fund, but maybe instead of doing it for 10 years, you fully fund it for five years. >> brennan: what are you thinking of when you throw that out, as an example? >> so, i think there are so many different programs

in the budget bill. first of all, i think it is unfortunate we have to, as democrats, have a discussion about not having a child tax credit. i hink it is unfortunate that we have to compromise with ourselves for an ambitious agenda for working people. i believe that free community colleg shuld we shha but this is one bill. and perhaps we can vote for more down the line. we've discussed with the president about that, continuing that funding. but there is a wide variety of those programs, and i would encourage folks in their community to also reach out to their elected officials, to let them know what programs they want to make sure are kept. but i think there are some things that are very, very important to us. >> brennan: for you, what is non-negotiable? >> you know, i think some of climate provisions that we have. we cannot afford to

increase carbon or just fossil fuel emissions at this time. the is simply the science. that is not something we can kick down the line. right now both the ipc report is saying this is code red for humanity, as well as recent reporting saying if you're under 40, like myself and millions of americans, you'll be seeing a catastrophic increase -- >> brennan: you're going to run right into joe manchin on those issues, though, you know that? >> yes. i think joe manchin is going to run to the science as well. >> brennan: what do you think that means? he also said for him, this bill will be dead on arrival if it does not include the hyde amendment, funding on abortion. >> i think progressives are trying to skin this cat nine different ways, but moderates are not really coming to the table. i don't even want to call them moderates because there are a lot of

moderates in the party who don't like being associated with some of the hardline tactics. it is a tiny contra of conservative democrats. but this is the issue: we're going down from $6 trillion to $3 trillion, and now it is $1 trillion, and we have some conservatives who say our line is zero, and you're lucky if you get one. i want to ground this conversation because this isn't a tit-for-tat between personalities. it is not about me and senator manchin. it is about families in the bronx. this is about people who take a bus to drop their kid off at school, and they're not going to be able to go back to work because they don't have child care to go back to work. >> brennan: but it is a question about the vision for the democratic party. last year you were very, very frank during the presidential race. you said in any other country, joe biden and i wouldn't even be in the same party, but in america we are. has joe biden proved

himself progressive enough for you now? >> yeah, and i think -- and those comments are referring to parliamentary systems. we don't have a two party duopoly. but i think pres president biden is, in fact a moderate. we disagree on certain issues. but he reaches out, and he actually tries to understand our perspective, and that is why i am fighting for his agenda, with the build back better act. >> brennan: are you surprised he hasn't been able to deliver those senate moderates that you're having those problems with? >> no. no. i think that for quite some time we have seen that some of these conservatives in the party, you know -- this is not about a team. it's about, you know,

individual sort of preferences. but that is okay. you know, we're going to come together. i believe in the vision and the commitment of our party for working people. and the thing is that we have to respect all families and all voters. >> brennan: lastly, just, you know, these moderates in the house as well, not just senator manchin, would say you're not playing for the team when you hold one bill hostage, as they would say, for the other, and put a bill that has roads and bridges and jobs, potentially, at risk. >> well, the agreement several months ago to even proceed on that one bipartisan bill was that it was tied with our larger build back better agenda. and the reason some folks say why don't you just pass this and we'll see everything else later? well, first of all, both of the bills need to pass. both will not pass if people try to separate them. if we try to diverge from that agreement that was settled several months ago. we can't simply just

invent new terms mid-stream and then expect everyone else -- for those initial terms to hold. i'm willing to hold up my end of the bargain by sticking to both. we need to expect all of our lawmakers who were part of that deal to stick to that bargain. >> brennan: congresswoman, thank you for coming in today. >> thank you so much. >> brennan: we turn to covid, the pandemic, and dr. anthony fauci. good morning to you, dr. fauci. >> doctor: good morning. >> brennan: 700,000 americans dead, this is now the worst pandemic the country has ever experienced. are we close to over or do we need to brace for another wave? >> doctor: well, you know, one of the things we want to make sure is that we have had, over the last few weeks, a turning around of the acceleration of this, starting to come down in cases and in hospitalizations, and soon deaths. the one thing that we don't want to do is we don't want to become complacent and say, okay,

now we need to pull back. we don't need anymore people to get vaccinated. we need to continue to get those individuals, now 70 million people who are eligible, to be vaccinated. because if you look at the history, margaret, of the different surges we've had, it comes up, starts to come down, and all of a sudden boom, comes back up again. as it is coming down, we have within our capability, we can make this happen, namely, go down to a very, very low level. with vaccination and with mitigation. so that's the one thing i want to make sure that our viewers realize, that we have done well in the sense of getting 55% of the population fully vaccinated and 64% with at least one dose. but we've got to keep pushing on the vaccination front. >> brennan: you said don't let your guard down. there are two new studies out that show covid has gotten better at transmitting through arisols, just through the

air. what does that mean? we're going into cold weather, the holidays, do peopeople need to start looking around and say it is too risky to gather with family members if there are unvaccinated children. >> doctor: margaret, i believe the way the c.d.c. has recommended. when you're in a situation where you have a dynamics of virus in the community, where there is clearly a lot of spread, even if you are vaccinated and you are in■ an indoor setting, a congcongregate setting, it makes sense to wear a mask and to avoid high-risk settings. and we should be looking at ventilation in indoor places. it is clearly spread by aerosol. and you want more ventilation, which is the reason why outdoors is always much safer than indoors. if you are indoors, ventilation will be key. that's the reason we should be paying attention to that.

>> brennan: but we can gather for christmas, or it is just too soon to tell? >> doctor: you know, margaret, it is just too soon to tell. we have to concentrate on continuing to get those numbers down and not try to jump ahead by weeks or months and say what we're going to do at aserinuio get the cases down. and we can do it by people getting vaccinated, and also in the situation where boosters are appropriate to get people boosted because we know they can help greatly in diminishing infection and diminishing advanced disease, the kinds of data that are accumulating in realtime. >> brennan: the president announced nearly a month ago that businesses need to mandate vaccines for their employees or submit them to weekly testing. it has been a month, and none of the paperwork has been filed with osha to make that happen. is this a stunt? are you seeing companies

follow through without even the legal mandate file? >> doctor: i think some of them are. i think you'll be seeing a lot more once we get past these legal issues. i think what the president said about companies greater than 100 individuals is a good thing. and you're seeing, also, local groups, universities and businesses are doing that. >> brennan: but it doesn't seem reflected in the action here. >> doctor: well, certainly, if you look at universities, we've had, i believe, margaret, if i'm not mistaken, a thousand or more universities saying if you want to be on campus, you have to get vaccinated or you can't come. and there are businesses doing that. look at airlines, where you have now 99% of certain airline employees who are vaccinated. so when you do that, when you tell people that there are alternatives, if you do not want to get

vaccinated, you're not going to work or be able to go to school. w'renk that the emergent dealinwith justifies >> brennan: we've seen an uptake of affections in kids. california mandated it as of january, which is the estimate. do you think other states should follow suit? >> doctor: well, i agree with what governor newsom did in california. i'm not going to get into the local issues, only to talk about general principles. that people need to realize that having a vaccine requirement for schools is not a new, novel thing that is very peculiar or specific to covid-19. we've been doing this for decades. my own children could not have gone to school if they had not gotten vaccinated with the measles, mumps, and rubella. so when we see pushback, it is like this has never happened before.

it is actually ongoing with other vaccines. so let's do it with a virus that is very, very serious. as you mentioned with the numbers, margaret, it has caused an unprecedented number of deaths and infeinfections in this country. >> brennan: we got news this week that there is this new pill that was submitted to the f.d.a. that could reduce the chances of hospitalization if you get covid. the government has purchased one million doses. that doesn't seem like nearly enough. why didn't the government place a bigger bet on this drug? >> doctor: i think the government placed a good bet on it. some people are saying there is no no proof or indication it is going to work, and we purchased a million. and now that we've had this success, the company will rev up and make millions and millions more for the rest of the world and us. i think we were very

cautious in makin purchase of 1 >>an: we'rlkinmillio, billions, trillions these days. understood. you don't worry that in the immediate term the american government will be pushed to the back of the line before these foreign governments have their new purchase orders? >> doctor: you know, i don't think so, margaret, at all. i think this is good news, and i think it is going to be an important addition to our armor. what i don't want people to be doing is saying now that we have a drug, we don't need to get vaccinated. the easiest way to not get in a hospital and not die is to not get infected in the first place. >> brennan: dr. fauci, thank you for your time. >> doctor: good to be with you, margaret. with you, margaret. thank you for having me. >> brennan: "face the nation" will be back in a minute.

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vaccinated, a new studied determined unvaccinated people were eight times more likely to get the delta variant than those vaccinated and were 57 times more likely to die. west virginia is one state in crisis, and their vaccination rate is considerably below the national average. republican governor jim justice joins us. you were leading the pack out of the gate, and now you hit this wall. why aren't you able to convince more of your con constituents to go get immunized. >> margaret, we're a long ways from being in a crisis in west virginia. we're still below the national average with our death rate. >> brennan: you're hospitals are getting overwhelmed. >> i'm sorry? >> brennan: you're hospitals are getting overwhelmed. you have a high infection rate? >> we're overwhelmed all across this country. west virginia is managing it absolutely great, and

in every way, from the standpoint of getting out first and vaccinating our people first in west virginia. we wish the boosters would have come out sooner because we got out so early, we were in a six month situation way before. think about this for one second, marrying: on margaret: g tuesday, we will have given and administeredary administeredevery one of our pfr vaccines -- >> brennan: you just asked the biden administration for more monoclonal antibodies, which is the treatment for people hospitalized with this virus, and they denied that. you need that because people are very sick. are you concerned your request was denied? >> of course we're concerned. it wasn't denied. it was just lowered. with all of that, margaret, the reality is the supply. the southern states just

gobbled up all of the supply and everything. and, again, the biden administration is saying they're holding the bag. we need more antibodies weagg it. >> brennan: you were talking about your dispute of characterization of where you are with vaccinations, but you do seem to have hit a wall with the younger than people in your state. you've done all of these things with mascots, with your bulldog, baby dog, you're giving away guns -- why can't you increase vaccinations? >> just think about it: since we came out with our campaign, a little old english bulldog, a baby dog, that has a face who makes everybody smile and she loves everybody, but with all of that, we have vaccinated hundreds of thousands of more west virginians. it has been tremendously successful. all of us all across this nation hit a wall. we all know that the more we get vaccinated the more live. we all know that.

so at the same time, we protect our freedoms, do we not? >> brennan: we're going >> brennan: we're going to talk more on the other side of this break, so stay with us. >> okay. that's why we're working to not only protect our planet, but restore, renew, and replenish it. so we can all live better tomorrow. ♪♪ before we talk about tax-smart investing, what's new? -well, audrey's expecting... -twins! grandparents! we want to put money aside for them, so...change in plans. alright, let's see what we can adjust. ♪♪ we'd be closer to the twins. change in plans. okay. mom, are you painting again? you could sell these. lemme guess, change in plans?

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