♪♪ >> brennan: welcome back to "face the nation." we want to continue our conversation with west virginia governor jim justice. let's pick up with where we left off, with how your state is faring with vaccinations and covid. your health official, dr. clay marsh at a press conference this week talked about how much your medical system is under strain right now, saying that the number of covid cases and hospitalizations is higher than it has been during the entire pandemic. and you, yourself, said you're right in the eye of this storm. so what's the problem? why aren't people protecting themselves?

>> well, margaret, they are. we are in the eye of the storm. we're at the peak of the surge right now. from our hospital standpoint, we're absolutely -- you know, we're still doing elective surgeries and we're still doing all of that. we're not overloaded from the standpoint of our hospitals having to turn people down and all of that. we're absolutely, you know, are managing this and managing it in a right way. but we are right at the peak of our surge here, and we're very hopeful that it is starting to decline. it is declining in certain ways, but we're still going to be very, very diligent in what we do. >> brennan: you, yourself, at your press conference this week encouraged parents to vaccinate like children. california's governor is mandating kids 12 to 17 get a vaccine to go into the school room after january. are you going to mandate it for school kids as well? >> no chance. no chance. >> brennan: why? as governor, you mandated

measles, mumps, rubella, other vaccines, why won't you put covid on that list? >> margaret, you don't have to come in so hot. you guys asked me to come. >> brennan: i'm asking you to clarify. >> the bottom line is i truly believe that the mandates only divide us and only divide us more. from the standpoint of mandates, i don't believe in imposing upon our freedoms over and over and over. and i've said that over -- i don't know how many times i've got to say it. from the standpoint of our children, i'm going to encourage in every way because i truly believe that the more people we get vaccinated, the less people will die, but at the same time, we've still got to stand up for who we are. for crying out loud, we're americans. >> brennan: i know this has become a big issue for the republican party, which you are part of in terms of framing this as freedom of choice, but for small children, you mandate that their parents get them those immunizations so that they

are safe in the classroom. they don't have freedoms as children to choose whether or not to get pole polio or not. we protect them against that. why wouldn't you want to protect those children by mandating it? >> margaret, to think that i don't want to protect the children is ridiculous. we all want to protect our children. but parents have decisions to make in this situation, too. just like the local officials have decisions to make. for crying out loud, that's who should be making these decisions, is the parents. >> brennan: well, you make those decisions as a governor, actually. >> well, we can go on and on about this forever, but in this situation, we're not going to change. and, really and truly, it never has really mattered to me -- i do think this nation is so divided from the standpoint of partisanship, it is

unbelievable. what you had a.o.c. say earlier, our team needs t be -- you elect individuals. you don't elect a team. you elect individuals to come to washington and voice their opinions. you do not elect a party. you elect individuals. >> brennan: right. governor, thank you very much for your time today. >> all right. >> brennan: only about a third of the world's population is fully vaccinated against covid, with developing countries lagging far behind. elizabeth palmer has the latest from london. >> reporter: good morning. we passed another global milestone in the pandemic this week: five million people have now died from covid-19. but in britain, where the london marathon went ahead this morning for the first time in two years, fewer people are dying. in fact, thanks to high vaccine uptake across europe, the death rate here is less than half what it is in america.

not so in russia,whichas dco deathiekne russians have been vaccinated. when a descendent of the russian royal family was married in st. petersburg, there were 1500 guests and not a mask in sight. this is typical. many russians believe that natural antibodies give natural protection. this is vladimir putin telling erdogan his antibody level is 16. he responds, mine is 100. in israel, vaccines, three of them, including the booster, is the new normal for everyone. >> while nearly 60% of people in developed countries are fully

vccinated, in africa, it is barely 4%. cries like the u.s. to lift vaccine export control to free up millions of doses. but in the wealthy west, the rituals of life as we knew it are returning. in france, labis, the kiss on the cheek, is back. that ip as long as the vaccine-resistant mutation of the virus doesn't emerge, but epidemiologists are saying that is still a very real possibility. >> brennan: thank you. we go to former f.d.a. commissioner dr. gottlieb. dr. gottlieb, always good to talk to you. i want to pick up with you where i left off with governor justice, which was on this question of vaccine mandates for

children. he didn't like thof codine of s as a governor, measles, mumps, rubella, tetanus, polio. should it be considered different? >> doctor: well, i think it is inevitable that the covid vaccine is going to be incorporated into the childhood immunization schedule. the c.d.c. has to take that up. my guess is they're not going to take that up until you have fully approved vaccines for children and more than one vaccine in the market available to kids. that might be more of a fall 2021/2022 event. bu you'll see other states and districts moving forward with their own mandates. i think the right focus is at the local level. you'll see other states, like california, taking this up. >> brennan: right, which they did. but what you're talking about is a practical matter of timing. he said it is aboutperson freedd for elves.

ia eme th continue hrticularly from republicans. senator ted cruz this week says he stands with nba players refusing to be vaccinated, for example. the republican governor of texas and florida, they're saying it also, it is a matter of free choice. you've been concerned about politicization of vaccines. aren't we already there? >> doctor: we are there. look, these are not just individual choices. these are collective decisions. and we've always looked at vaccination as a collective decision. that's why we have a childhood immunization schedule because your behavior with respect to your choice around vaccination affects your community. that's why i think the right locust of decision-making is at as local an extent as possible. to the extent that governors and mayors can do this, that's where it comes in. i do worry about the consequences of the moment we're in, the fact that now vaccination is something culy and pocally because i thit than just

around covid. i worry that going forward we're going to see vaccine rates decline as this becomes more of a political football, and we see literally governors running against vaccine and vaccine mandate. that is going to be deleterious to the public health if that's what comes out of this episode we're in. >> brennan: that was your chief criticism of president biden's decision to issue a mandate, one he hasn't filed yet, but as announced. >> doctor: i would be trying to use big carrots rather than sticks. that's where they might have crossed the l line and gave people on the political right something to run against. i think the government within its right to mandate federal workers, and they get mandated for vaccines on chicken pox and hepatitis "b."

so there is certainly tools that the federal government has at its disposal. but when you're getting down to private businesses and states, you want to see those decisions made by the businesses at the local level. i think the federal government can step in with incentives to try to drive that behavior. >> brennan: we asked dr. fauci l from merck that was announced as being affective 50% of the time reducing hospitalizations. 1.7 million doses, are you concerned that is not enough? >> doctor: well, it is not enough, 1.7 million. it would cover us with one month of the delta wave in the south. i think there could have been more forethought into trying to get more manufacturing in place and ppercure more doses.

the stockpile has 80 million courses of therapy for a feared flu. so 1.7 million doses wasn't enough. this drug looks very promising. 've en in themfound treatment of any respiratory pathogen. hopefully merck will be in a position to file with the f.d.a., and can make an emergency authorization as early as this week. depending on how long the f.d.a. takes, you could see this drug available very soon. >> brennan: is it going to have to be rationed, though? >> doctor: depending on what happens with the covid spread, it will have to be rationed. i would expect to see a scheme similar to what we have with the antibody drugs, where it is will be allocated from the state. allocated from the state. >> brennan: dr.

gottlieb, thank you so much, as always. we're going to talk police reform with senator cory booker. stay with us. ♪ say it's all right ♪ ♪ say it's all right, it's all right ♪ ♪ have a good time 'cause it's all right ♪ ♪ now listen to the beat ♪

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>> brennan: last sunday senator tim scott gave us his explanation for why bipartisan negotiations on police reform collapsed. we spoke friday to his democratic counterpart. senator cory booker told us despite getting the fraternal order of police, the largest police union, to support his bill, we couldn't get republicans to do so. the last straw, he said, was when senator scott refused to codify former president trump's 2020 executive orders, which required certain criteria for police departmen to receive federal money. that prompted senator booker to walk away, something for which he says he takes full responsibility. >> we were willing to take a lot less. i said to my staff, we're not going to stake half of it. the one area we had was on chokeholds, where there was conditions of grants and the like. but there was no areas of agreement we had

established. when we gave basic lines on things we didn't think weren't that great, we couldn't get the agreement there. it is unfortunate because the issues that the families were asking,, the families of people that were murdered, the police officers are standing up and agreeing with us. what everybody was saying was let's take a situation and increase transparency, raise professional standards, and create more accountability when an officer does something really, really against the law as well as our common values. that's what we were looking for. >> brennan: specifically, because senator scott was specific in this criticism, he said that you wanted police departments to hand over data to the federal government from every investigative encounter with police, including routine traffic stops. or if they don't do that, they would risk losing money. >> i think we should be in a nation if an officer uses physical force, that

that data should be collected. right now we do not have a collection on these things. to give transparency to any town, we should start understanding what are the traffic stops, the demographics of those, and the like. we live in a country where both senator scott and i have had personal experiences with wrongfully being stopped by police, guns drawn on us, accused of things we didn't do. if there is no transparency into those actions, we can't deal with it. for a manager of a city, if you can't measure it, you can't manage it. >> brennan: you did say you had some areas of agreement -- >> we had one area of agreement on chokeholds, which all across red states and blue states they're banning those actions. we didn't have enough to do the data transparency that is necessary, that even police officers are now saying the majority of folks who represent them, and we did not have real consequences. remember, there are things we've been debating from the beginning about

qualified immunity, and other shields to hold officers that -- >> brennan: qualified immunity had been put to the side for a minute; is that correct? >> that's what i mean. but we did want what the f.o.p. and others agreed to is some movement on the criminal standards and some movement on holding municipalities accountable for when their officers do horrible, horrible, illegal things. >> brennan: the argument that senator scott was making was that doing that, by saying there will be punitive action against you, it is akin to restricting funding. and he used that term "defund the police," which has frankly dogged democrats for some time because it just creates a perception of being somehow soft on crime, right? so how do you respond to that? do you think when he is using that particular phrase in explaining why you walked away, that this is just a political game?

>> again, this is a moral moment. this is not about a back and forth between tim and i. it is a moral moment. and to get big compromised bills done, which i've accomplished before, you have to have people that are willing to take risks. >> brennan: but it was democrats who walked away twice. that's what he said and republicans said that. in 2020 -- >> by that mass, they walked away from the george floyd bill. there were two bills put out. we were trying to do the honest, hard work of finding a compromise. along that pathway, we did something people didn't expect. major law enforcement organizations were not known to agree with democrats, came to agreement. and we didn't -- and we were not able to land it. we -- people in both parties would have agreed with it. i will not give up on this bill because it is not a partisan issue, it is a moral issue. >> brennan: what does that mean? because president biden, when he blamed

republicans, said he will get it done through executive action. it sounds like you're going to try to resolve this? >> i think there is a lot biden will do, and i'm excited. i know on the bills i was able to get passed, it often would take more than one congress. we're going to do this because families deserve it. >> brennan: when? >> whenever we can. >> brennan: we had racial justice protest movements that shook this country. this was an opportunity. >> yes. >> brennan: we've been through two congresses. are you telling us to wait until after 2022? >> as martin luther king would say, how long? people are told to wait. justice delayed is justice denied. and the families are rightfully impatient. i cannot change the minds of some republicans, but i've got enough momentum now that i'm going to continue to work. i can't tell you when, but i will tell you this: we have already seen

progress, from kentucky to colorado. we have seen the activism of people in the streets demanding to create real substantive change -- >> brennan: but if democrats lose the majority in 2022, do you think you're more likely -- >> i don't know what it is, but i'm telling you i'm not giving up. law enforcement leaders will tell you this, we have a lot of work to do so everybody doesn't feel like i felt growing up, when you see a police officer, your first ins tinstinct is fear and not somebody to help me. the majority of police unions agree with us. we is more work to do to get this done. >> brennan: senator scott says it is off the table. are you willing to talk -- >> senator and scott and i are friends. i'm more than confident, especially as i look at ot republicans, that we're going to find a way to keep working on this issue. we came to a stalemate.

where we couldn't embody donald trump's e.o. in legislation, and that is problematic for me. this will continue to be an urgency in my life. and a person who has significant reform in the criminal justice space, i'm going to continue to work on this. police officers and conservative think tanks, all are calling for change. i believe we're going to get this done. >> brennan: senator booker, thank you for your time. >> thank you very much. >> brennan: you can watch our full interview with senator booker on our website. we'll be back in a moment. when you humble yourself under the mighty hand of god, in due time he will exalt you. hi, i'm joel osteen.

i'm excited about being with you every week. i hope you'll tune in. you'll be inspired, you'll be encouraged. i'm looking forward to seeing you right here. you are fully loaded and completely equipped for designed for you. >> brennan: americans seem to be increasingly splintered these days, and that anger and partisanship is hurting our children. attention, angry american parents, your children, and the rest of the country are watching. [yelling] >> brennan: scenes like this outside a school board meeting in tennessee last month, or this one in idaho, where anti-mask protestors caused local officials to cancel their meetings due to safety

concerns triggered an unusual emergency request for federal assistance to stop violence against board members and local educators. in a letter to president biden, the national school board association appealed for help. >> these threats t board members are horrible. they're doing their jobs. >> brennan: the board compared the angry eruptions to domestic terrorism and hate crimes. it isn't clear what the feds can actually do about the basic lack of respect and civility plaguing communities right now. the state of physical attacks on flight attendants enforcing mask rules is another example of self-righteous adults acting badly. it seems the anxiety caused by the pandemic has made it even harder for many of our fellow americans to listen to each other. and to forget how to have a civil conversation about difficult issues. at least eight states have enacted legal bans on

teachers even discussing theories regarding race-based privile. raal eity one of the most explosive topics at school board gatherings. it is dangerous to our children when the parents themselves are the school bullies. it possess a threat to the very foundational levels of our democracy: basic education. not every act needs to be political. putting a mask on your child amidst a pandemic is just practical. >> avoiding masks is not in the bible, but taking care of others is. >> brennan: as this tennessee explained to his kkindergartener. >> she went to school and was one of the few kids in her class wearing a mask. which made her ask me why she had to. my answer was because we want to take care of other people. she is five, but she understood that concept. >> brennan: perhaps the children could teach us a thing or two about civic duty. we'll be right back.

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>> brennan: that's it for us today. thank you for watching. for "face the nation," i'm margaret brennan. ♪♪ captioning sponsored by cbs captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

york. ♪ this is the "cbs overnight news." good evening. thanks for joining us. california officials and cleanup crews are trying to limit the damage from a major offshore oil spill south of los angeles. the crude has spoiled beaches, killed fish and birds and threatens local wetlands. right now the cause of the spill is under investigation. it's connected to an offshore oil platform known as elly. cbs' lilia luciano is in newport beach with the latest. what your seeing? >> jericka, we've just learned the leak has been stopped. the bad news is all around here,

all along the shore you see