♪♪ >> brennan: welcome back to "face the nation." we go now to former f.d.a. commissioner dr. scott gottlieb, who also sits on the board of pfizer and is the author of "uncontrolled spread: why covid-19 crushed you and how we can defeat the next pandemic." doctor, pfizer applied for emergency approval for children ages five to 11, to be able to get a vaccine. is it reasonable to assume that by thanksgiving we could see children fully vaccinated? >> doctor: i think that is certainly reasonable in terms of when this would be available. the f.d.a. is meeting on october 26th to discuss this application. assuming they authorize the use of the vaccine,

the c.d.c.'s advisory committee will meet on november 2nd and 3-7bd and 3rd.and assuming both those events go well, this soon be available almost immediately after the c.d.c. makes their determination. and pfizer plans to ship this vaccine in smaller vials and also small trays that could make it more accessible to more pediatric offices. >> brennan: perhaps more readily available than when the adults went through the process. according to the poll we started our program with today, more than a third of parents say they will vaccinate their five to 11-year-olds right away. a quarter of them will wait and see. i'm wondering what that says to you and what you would be looking for in the language from the c.d.c. when they explain this to the pub

>> doctor: look, i was actually encouraged by the results of a survey. there are a lot of parents like me as soon as the vaccine is available for their kids, they will go out and get their kids vaccinated. there are a lot of parents that have a lot of questions around vaccination. they should have a conversation with their pediatricians. we have the opportunity, by the availability of this vaccine, to more fully v vanquish this virus. i think the question is -- perhaps they will enumerate kids who are at higher rec risk. i think the c.d.c. is likely to take a very cautious approach in children ages five to 11, in part because they're at his welsk for covid and in virus. i think there is a lot of information available, and

it makes me confident about vaxxing my kids. for those parents who still have a lot of questions, i would urge them to have a discussion with their pediatrician. >> brennan: this is about a third of the size given to adults, correct? >> doctor: that's right. and for younger kids, ages six months to four years, which is still in development, it will be even a smaller dose, one-tenth of dose used in adults. >> brennan: so parents of young kids like me will still have to wait. is it going to be more difficult to get approval for the smaller -- the smallest of children, for the infants? are we looking really far down the line? >> doctor: not really far down the line. i think there is some indication, based on the experience with this vaccine, where the f.d.a. asked for additional information, as well as feedback, that the

clinical trials in kids six months to two years, and two years to four years, so it is two different trials, could be a little larger and longer in terms of the followup period that is required. it could push it into 2022. we were trying to have that data available by the end of the year, at least in kids ages two to four. i think it is more likely that it slips into the first quarter of next year at the very least, but not too far into next year. ultimately this will be discussed at the advisory committee that the f.d.a. has on the 26th. so a final recommendation about how long the trials need to be and the followup period needs to be will be determined at that point. the agency is moving cautiously but with speed. i think ultimately, if we can derive more information, it will put the c.d.c. in a better position to make a more confident recommendation, ultimately, the public health will be better served by that. so that might be the outcome here.

>> brennan: you said previously on this program eventually you do think that the covid vaccine will be added to the list of requirements for kids to walk into the school rooms. the c.d.c. puts it you're children needrs to be vaccinated with. when do you expect it to be mandated for elementary school children? >> doctor: i think it is a very long way off. the c.d.c. is going to look at children ages 12 to 17 differently than five to 11. the older kids seem to get into covid more in involved morh covid. the c.d.c. is going to want to see the post-pandemic experience, how much virus is going to be circulating after the pandemic, and how much of a risk it possess to children. and they're going to want to collect a lot more long-term data in kids. 12 to 17 could be a couple of years away. i think five to 11 is even longer than that. you're going to want to

get more experience in those children. that is barring anything unexpected. if we do get a new variant, if we get something that is causing more problems in kids, you decision. an earlier get contl tinthat the c.d.c. is going to act very cautiously. and if you look historically at past vaccines, the time between when they're licensed and when the c.d.c. incornts incorporates them in the children's schedule, is a longer period. hepatitis "a" was first licensed in 1995, and it wasn't recommended until 2000. you see it being a mu multi-effort, when the c.d.c. puts nem into the recommended schedule for children. >> brennan: you told us that the youngest children won't likely have a vaccine by the time we gather at christmastime. something that caught my eye, was the biden's

administration's announcement about a billion dollars for at-home testing. is that the practical way for people, to go and buy at-home tests to see if they can gather with their loved once? >> doctor: that's what they're doing in the u.k. the prices are not cheap. i think the government could be doing a lot more distributing those tests. i think when you're gathering around the holidays, you have to assess the circumstances. if you have younger kids who are unvaccinated with older people who are vaccinated but could still be vulnerable, using testing makes a lot of sense. that's certainly what i would try to do. >> brennan: dr. gottlieb, thank you for the advice. we'll be right back. osteo bi-fd for immune support.

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teens, stoked political division, and spread sniffings. we go to cbs news cyber security analyst chris krebs. >> good morning, margaret. >> brennan: this whistle-blower clearly communicated some thi that are frankly misunderstand or too opec. she highlighted that social media is explicit in knowing their platforms to be used this way. under current law, internet companies are exempt from liability for what is posted on their platforms. should that be reformed? >> absolutely. there were three take-aways that i had from her testimony and the "60 minutes" piece. first is yes, she was very well-prepared and very articulate in the way she communicated the issues. the second is that affectively what we're

talking about, facebook and others, are data companies, they control the information and what is released and available to the public. and the third piece, as you point out, the communications decency act of 1986 or '87, that provides immunity to these data companies and tech platforms and others needs to be reformed, and that the algorithms and the advertisements and the other ways that the companies generate revenue should -- tho prctionshould stppy. rennan so onofed was how outrage generates more engagement. that it is literally embedded in the technology to feed the extremes and continue to feed them. who takes on a bigger role to try to offset some of that? >> well, when you step back and you look at whether it is disinformation, misinformation, or just

online discourse, you have to split it up to a supply and demand problem, as i see it. on the demand side, there is still a significant amount of interest and uptake for a lot of the rage that you mentioned. but the platforms, as we've been talking about, have -- they generate revenue. they get -- more engagement for them is a good thing. and those are the sorts of things we need to take a harder look at. as i already mentioned, the biggest issue here is that we do not have enough insight and information around these algorithms and drives the sprawl of information. and so i've likened it to we're in a post-enron moment, where we don't have enough visibility, there is not enough transparency, and we need some equivalent that requires these platforms to provide access to security researchers, to journalists, to regulators.

and, yes, regulation absolutely should be on the table for congress. i think this is one of those few areas right now where we have an opportunity for bipartisan engagement. >> brennan: and it is interesting because an a.p. poll done recently shows that there is recognition that misinformation is a problem, and there is bipartisan support. it is just kind of figuring out how to do it, that's the challenge. you know, one of the other places that i know you've looked at there is some misinformation is on tv, on cable news. and there was a report done by reuters this week saying that the network at&t helped build a far-right channel. at&t denied this, that they had no financial interest in this. but how significant do you think these other platforms are in spreading information that is manipulative? >> i think that has got to be part of the conversation, the onloin online platforms. today we might be talking

about social media platforms, but tomorrow who knows what the technology will be. we need a legal framework that provides the unfettered students out opportus out there to spread misinformation, but to the point about at&t and o.a.n., whether in fact that is true, it is in court documents. but that's why it is so important for researchers and journalists to have access so the market can make decisions. with imperfect information, we make imperfect decisions. but this allows the market to vote with their dollars. i'm probably switching off of at&t to another wireless carrier. this is the sort of information we need so we can make informed, soulicy f. b, talking of politics, you ran the rumor control site for the 2020 election in your previous role when

you were in homeland security. some of the work you did is one of the reasons that president trump fired you. last night he, again, started a rally in iowa and called for the complete overhaul of our elections system. these calls are not going away. do you think that there is an active effort under way underne elections as congressman schiff started off our program saying? >> without question. it's happening at four different levels. both state legislatures and state elected officials, some of the folks running for secretary of state in arizona and georgia. but we're also seeing in the u.s. congress, the minority whip was on fox news, and he was talking %-p. he will not admit that president biden won fair and square. we're seeing this constant erosion of confidence in

the electoral system, and it is ultimately anti-democratic, and we're frankly in a death spiral, as i see it. two years, four years at the ballot box isn't good enough. there has to be other accountability measures for those who will continue to proliferate these lies. >> brennan: that's an incredible statement. you're a life-long republican and you're acknowledging and pointing to leadership encouraging some of these things. how is that possible that this continues to happen? >> i mean, it is based -- it is captured by the base, right? they're afraid to speak up because they're afraid the former president is going to try to primary them. and the other piece is they've activated and lost control of their voting base. and they know if they go against the former president, not only will he speak out against them, they're going to start seeing people show up at their townhall.

we've actually seen republican members of crows stop holding townhalls because they've overactivated their base and it's gotten out of control. th've control and they don have the ability to rein it back in. >> brennan: chrisokrebs, thank you very much for your analysis. although you've given me some heartburn. it is always good to talk to you. we'll be back in a moment.

>> brennan: we want to bring in another former trump white house advisory fiona hill. she was a senior director at the national security council. her new book is called

"there is nothing for you here: finding opportunity in the 21st century." good morning to you. >> good morning, margaret. >> brennan: so that title comes from something that your father, a coal miner, in the north of england told you when you were coming of age. i wonder what you would say, looking at this country, to the coming of here anything for teson everyon? be taken a even a political observation. a lot of people are feeling somewhat alienated from the politics, as we've been hearing through the segments. but there is also, in so many parts of the united states, a lot of questions people are having about their education and their educational future, particularly with covid and all of the economic problems we've been seeing. people are wondering, are they going to be able to get a job? i think that's the whole

premise that the country is being based on, is the idea that your children and your grandchildren will live better than you. and that's the issue we should be grappling with, whether that is still possible. >> brennan: one of the things that is interesting is that you were an intelligence analyst, so you can apply that critical eye to this country like you would a foreign country. when you apply it to united states right now, you use terms like "the politics of cultural despair," "fertile grounds for populous politics." how dangerous is this moment? >> the moment is incredibly daimpletion. dangero. people are talking about a prospective constitutional crisis, we're already in it. i was listening carefully to what chris krebs was saying, and when chris had to basically call out domestic threats to the election during the 2020 presidential election, it should have been obvious

to everyone. his whole job was to push back against external threats, not against domestics. when he had to speak out in public in the way he did, it should have been an alarm bell to anyone watching. >> brennan: and you have the national security eye as well. when you look at the politics of the moment that you described as dangerous, do you see a differs between populism on the right and p populism on the left? do you see them equally potentially threatening? >> i'm seeing the populism on the right is the most threatening. the populism on the left contributes to the atmosphere of polarization. but very suddenly it is on the right that we're seeing the threats. not just in congress and the senate, in places where you actually expect people to be upholding their oath of office to the constitution and the people, but it is actors on that right who are also

basically calling for violence against fellow americans, and at all times are talking down the integrity of the election system. and we just had the rally that president trump conducted in iowa, prepping for his return to a presidency, a presidency he says he has never left because he says the election was stolen against him. >> brennan: and that's exactly why i've been asking that, is the groundwork being laid questioned. certainly that seemed to be the message here. in the book "peril," they wrote the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, mark milley, at the end of it is quoted as comparing the january 6 siege of the capitol to the great dress rehearsal. you know immediately what that phrase is, what lennon called an u.rising uprisg

that preceded the revolution. i read that and i said, the general is saying this is a precursor to further violence. is that overstating things? >> he is not overstating this at all. we all saw in realtime what happened on january 6 at the capitol building. general milley was right. any observer of american politics would say, when have we seen something like this? not in our lifetime. we saw the civil rights movements during vietnam where there were prot tprotests,but storming the capi? storming the winter palace during the russian revolution that general milley was alluding to. we have seen many historical episodes where

there is violence, and vice-president pence has been downplaying it, even though he was targeted. they wanted to lynch him. and then people sweeping this away saying nothing happened here, and the next time around you get the real thing where people actually do seize those buildings. and i said that also in the book, that this was, in effect, a dress rehearsal for something that could be happening near term, in 2022, and 2024. we've got election cycles that will heighten the tension. once a threshold is crossed, we're in a danger zone. >> brennan: there are so many people who will look at the investigation, chairman schiff is working on it, and they'll say that is just politics. i've heard people tell me this on sc capitol hill, that's a riot, a few crazy people. not the precursor or dry run of a coup that you say we're in right now.

how do you respond to people saying you're overreacting, essentially? >> people are saying that because they don't have any personal experience of these kinds of events. but i can certainly tell you as an immigrant, so many who came to the united states in 1989, against the crumbling of the berlin war and the end of the cold war, i know immigrants who came from war zones, from the former yugoslavia or places like sri lanka, afghanistan, syria, you name it, all of the people i know who are immigrants are looking around and saying, can't people see this? we have come from war-torn societies, and all of the hallmarks are here. perhaps americans should talk to some of their neighbors who came to the united states to flee just this kind of occurrence and have them tell them what their personal experience was. >> brennan: all right. fiona hill, thank you for your analysis. we'll be right back. >> thank you.

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when you humble yourself under the mighty hand of god, in due time he will exalt you. hi, i'm joel osteen. i'm excited about being with you every week. i hope you'll tune in. you'll be inspired, you'll be encouraged. i'm looking forward to seeing you right here. you are fully loaded and completely equipped for the race that's been designed for you. >> brennan: that's it >> brennan: that's it for us today. thank you for watching. until next week, for "face the nation," i'm margaret brennan. ♪♪

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>> announcer: this is the "cbs overnight news." good evening and thank you for joining us. this has been a rough weekend if you're flying southwest. nearly 2,000 flights have been canceled, leaving passengers scrambling. the airline blames disruptive weather and air traffic control issues, although the faa attributes the disruptions to staffing and aircraft issues. no other airline has reported similar problems today. cbs's lilia luciano is in los angeles at the international airport there. lilia, it appears those problems really started before today.