oh yeah that'd be great. a leader in the prevention, early detection and treatment of cancer. captioning funded by cbs and ford. we go further, so you can. >> nationwide since last year, there has been a 53% increase in the murders of police officers. police departments are dealing with growing resignations, too. so, is it possible that "defunding the police" may help? >> the adage has been in law enforcement since forever: 80% of what we do has nothing to do with law enforcement. it's all social work. the kitten-up-the-tree stuff-- do you need a badge and a gun for that? and we're starting to cut away at the things we've asked law enforcement to do, that they don't want to do. ( ticking ) >> this is it? >> that's it. >> oh, wow. if you're planning to travel by air over the holidays--

and millions of americans are-- would you jump at the chance to get to your destination in half the time? >> when i look several decades out, you know, what i want is to be able to be anywhere in the world in four hours, for 100 bucks. now, that's not where we start. but that's the end goal. ( ticking ) >> that's the temple of castor and pollux? >> exactly, exactly. >> the roman empire centered around conquests, and the outsized personalities of its emperors. research and archeology continue to search for reliable evidence from that time. and tonight, we'll introduce you to some new discoveries about one of the most written about, if not misunderstood, emperors of all time: caligula. i can't believe that we are sitting on the steps that caligula may have walked on. it's amazing. ( ticking ) >> i'm lesley stahl. >> i'm bill whitaker. >> i'm anderson cooper. >> i'm sharyn alfonsi. >> i'm jon wertheim. >> i'm scott pelley.

those stories, tonight, on "60 minutes." ( ticking ) people everywhere living with type 2 diabetes are waking up to what's possible... ...with rybelsus®. (♪ ♪) rybelsus® works differently than any other diabetes pill to lower blood sugar... in all 3 of these ways... increases insulin when you need it... decreases sugar... and slows food. the majority of people taking rybelsus® lowered their blood sugar and reached an a1c of less than 7. people taking rybelsus® lost up to 8 pounds. rybelsus® isn't for people with type 1 diabetes. don't take rybelsus® if you or your family ever had medullary thyroid cancer, or have multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2, or if allergic to it. stop rybelsus® and get medical help right away ifou get a lump or swelling in your neck,

severe stomach pain, or an allergic reaction. serious side effects may include pancreatitis. tell your provider about vision problems or changes. taking rybelsus® with a sulfonylurea or insulin increases low blood sugar risk. side effects like nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea may lead to dehydration which may worsen kidney problems. wake up to what's possible with rybelsus®. (♪ ♪) you may pay as little as $10 per prescription. ask your healthcare provider about rybelsus® today.

your plain aspirin could be hurting your stomach. vazalore... is the first liquid-filled aspirin capsule clinically shown to cause fewer ulcers than plain aspirin. try new vazalore. aspirin made amazing! ♪♪ it starts with a mother's determination to treat her baby's eczema. and grows into a family business that helps thousands more. it starts with an army vet's dream of studying the stars. and grows into a new career as an astrophysicist. it starts with an engineer's desire

restauranto start over.grto an g that creates local jobs. they learned how on youtube. what will you learn? >> pelley: this past week, the kyle rittenhouse trial was a sharp reminder of 2020's summer of protest against police violence. after a police shooting of jacob blake in wisconsin last year, rittenhouse, then 17, shot and killed two demonstrators, and wounded another. jacob blake's shooting came not long after the police killings of breonna taylor and george floyd.

protests pitted supporters of "defund the police" against those who "backed the blue." and with a significant rise in violent crime, progress on reform stalled. but, phillip atiba goff sees a way forward. he's a yale social scientist who's been advising police departments for 14 years. goff's work has shown that justice and safety can be found in cities that are reimagining police. >> phillip atiba goff: we focus on making policing less deadly, less racist, and often, just less present. and we leverage data and behavioral science to do all of that. because oftentimes, a scientific process is one you can trust when you can't trust each other. >> pelley: phillip goff is a professor of african american studies, with a ph.d. in psychology. he's c.e.o. of the center for policing equity, which analyzes police data, 911 calls, arrests,

and traffic stops, to help cities reduce racial disparity and the use of force. las vegas is one example. las vegas police department came to you. what was their question? >> goff: las vegas metro, they said, "we think we might be using too much force." i said, "why do you think that?" they said, "because our community tells us so." i said, "that's a good indication." >> pelley: goff discovered, most use of force in vegas came after foot chases. >> goff: so literally, they started training their officers, you're high on adrenaline, you slow it down, you count to ten. don't touch the person till the backup shows up. they dropped their use of force by 23% the next month. and it stayed low, and it became a national model for training in foot pursuits. >> pelley: in berkley, california, goff found the largest racial bias was in low-level traffic stops, like broken taillights. so, berkeley stopped enforcing minor violations. >> goff: the places where we work, we see about a 26% reduction in use of force after

we were there. don't know how much of that was us, but all the things they tried together-- about a quarter, right, of the use of force goes away. but, in this moment, what we're getting asked for is something different. not "how do we make policing better," but "how do we remove policing from the places where we have abandoned communities, and so we ask police to punish people who we've abandoned for generations." that's the thing that's coming next. >> pelley: to see what's coming next, we went to the capital of texas. professor goff is not advising austin, but this liberal city of one million is far along in police reform, even against the reservations of the conservative state legislature. >> black lives matter! black lives matter! >> pelley: when george floyd was murdered in minneapolis in 2020, austin was already smoldering over two police killings of its own. two cops are charged with murder in shootings, nine months apart, of a mental patient, and an

unarmed man who was black and latino. in a demonstration in july, an armed black lives matter protester was shot and killed... ( gunfire ) ...by a man who drove his car into the march. the shooter is charged with murder. at the peak of the unrest, the city council voted unanimously to cut the police budget 25%-- about $150 million. the idea was to prevent crime-- give police less to do-- by spending the money on addiction, mental illness and homelessness. austin called it "reimagining public safety." >> goff: law enforcement is not going to prevent the violence. they're going to respond to it. and if what you want is less violence, you want prevention. >> pelley: when people hear about reimagining the police, that seems to come under the slogan of defunding the police. and i think many people look at

that and think, "my community's going to be less safe." >> goff: i think there are communities where that's absolutely true. of course, you would be. but, we've defunded the schools in those communities. we've defunded mental health. we've defunded the actual hospitals. we've defunded the jobs. we've defunded the housing system. we've defunded the grocery stores. what if, instead of talking about just defunding police, we talked about re-funding to the communities, those areas where we've taken all the resources and the public goods away? if we did that, how much safer do you think we would be? the reason why people are so allergic to the idea of less police is, they can't imagine a world where we take better care of the people who are vulnerable. >> pelley: but arguments like that didn't carry the texas legislature. ( gavel ) republicans passed a law preventing any cuts to police budgets in large cities. the state government at the capitol has told you, you cannot reduce the police budget. >> spencer cronk: correct.

>> pelley: so, austin city manager spencer cronk put the money back in the police budget. what does that do to your plan? >> cronk: i think it doesn't do much, to be honest, because this plan has never been just about resources. this plan has always been about, how do we think differently about providing public safety to our community? >> pelley: now, cronk is spending the money differently within the police budget. he's undeterred, perhaps because, before austin, he ran the city of minneapolis. he left two years before george floyd was murdered. >> cronk: it is one of those times in which you know that things have to change. >> pelley: cronk started that change by shutting down the austin police academy for a year, to rewrite the curriculum. do you find yourself being taken seriously around here? >> anne kringen: you know, i would say, it varies? >> pelley: anne kringen, with a ph.d. in criminal justice, was

hired to overhaul the academy. she was once a cop in virginia, and now runs the just-reopened academy, alongside 22-year veteran, commander catherine johnson. >> catherine johnson: this class is the most diverse in austin police department's history, and we want to ask them-- and we do ask them-- if they want to be a part of the change. >> pelley: "that change" toned down the academy's military- style boot-camp you can see in these pictures from 2012. >> yes, sir! >> yes, sir! >> yes, sir! >> pelley: now, there's plenty of rough and tumble, but the new curriculum emphasize there's a course on the history of race and policing, plus visits, in plain clothes, to meet and hear from austin's black, brown, asian, and l.g.b.t.q. communities. and, there are lessons from those 9.5 minutes that defy explanation.

you're training the cadets to intervene if they believe an officer's doing the wrong thing? >> kringen: yes. >> johnson: yes. >> pelley: that's the message from george floyd? >> kringen: i think it's one of the many messages. i think it's really importantthy austin citizens, who may not look like them-- that they can humanize with them. >> pelley: how do you teach someone to hear the words, "i can't breathe"? >> kringen: it goes back to the training, of thinking, what is the resistance level? this is a person. and then i think we actually teach them the skills and the tactics to be able to say, "i can deal with this. my focus has to be on them. not the crowd, but on them." >> pelley: commander, you talk about empathy in answering that same question. >> johnson: it's being able to understand and care for the individual in the community that you serve.

>> pelley: can you teach that? >> johnson: you can try. and we're going to try. >> black lives matter! >> joseph chacon: i think that there really was just a palpable anger at the police that was present in our community, and other communities. to some degree, that anger still exists. ...the city of austin, so help me god. >> pelley: joseph chacon became chief last month, after his two decades on the force. are you essentially asking the question, "what are the police for?" >> chacon: i think that is the question. you have police that have been asked to do more and more different kinds of things. do we need to look at scaling back on what these other things are, and see, is it more appropriate for, you know, a civilian or-- or somebody else, some other function, to take care of that? >> pelley: chief chacon's plan is to send unarmed civilian employees to fender benders,

vandalism, or to take reports on auto thefts and burglaries. of all the calls to 911, only 1% involve violent crime-- much the same as philip goff sees in the cities he's consulting. >> goff: and the adage has been in law enforcement since forever, 80% of what we do has nothing to do with-- with law enforcement. it's all social work. so, once the 911 calls say, "here's what the uses of law enforcement are," you can say, "hey, this stuff, the kitten-up- the-tree stuff, do you need a badge and a gun for that? the substance-use stuff. you want a social worker to go there, someone who's actually trained in substance abuse? mental health stuff. how about we send someone who's trained in that, to go do that?" and we're starting to cut away at the things we've asked law enforcement to do, that they don't want to do. >> austin 911, what's your emergency? >> pelley: among those things are mental health calls. >> do you have thoughts of suicide or self-harm? >> pelley: and this is where austin is a city leading the

nation. >> ken murphy: so now in the city of austin, when you call 911, you will hear, "do you need police, fire, e.m.s., or mental health services?" >> pelley: police lieutenant ken murphy manages 911. >> murphy: i do believe adding the fourth option to mental health is the next evolution of 911. >> pelley: in austin, 911's "fourth option" dispatches mental health clinicians when intervention is needed, but there's no apparent threat of violence. >> pelley: in 2021, this was the result. >> murphy: we were able to divert 3,564 calls away from police response. >> pelley: so, those were 3,600 calls the police never got-- they didn't have to respond-- >> murphy: correct. >> pelley: which left them to do whatever else they needed to do. >> murphy: respond to emergency situations. >> pelley: that work-load off cops comes at a critical moment.

like many cities, chief joseph chacon's department is suffering a quiet crisis. police officers i've talked to have told me, since george floyd, that they don't feel like they are respected. cops are retiring all over the country. >> chacon: yeah, they're retiring here as well. my attrition rate is about triple what it was four years ago. but what i tell our officers is that, i know the men and women of this department. i know their hearts. and when they're out there and they're doing their job, they need to concentrate on that, and not on any false narrative there might be about how policing is just absolutely broken. can we do things better? certainly. but there's many things that i think that we do very well. >> pelley: the period after george floyd has been deadly for officers, too. the f.b.i. reports, this year, 66 have been murdered, a 53% jump from 2020.

the leading cause of these deaths has been unprovoked attacks. austin, and cities advised by philip goff, are asking whether justice and safety can be found in relieving poverty, addiction, and mental illness, while focusing police on those "things they do very well." >> goff: they could be the model for how we start over at keeping the vulnerable folks in our communities safe. they could say, "we're going to do this differently than we've ever done this in the united states before." they could be who we tell ourselves we already are, about racial justice in this country. that's-- that's the promise. ( ticking )

i'm still wowed by what's next. even with higher stroke risk due to afib not caused by a heart valve problem. so if there's a better treatment than warfarin,... i want that. eliquis. eliquis reduces stroke risk better than warfarin. and has less major bleeding than warfarin. eliquis has both. don't stop taking eliquis without talking to your doctor as this may increase your risk of stroke. eliquis can cause serious and in rare cases fatal bleeding. don't take eliquis if you have an artificial heart valve or abnormal bleeding. while taking, you may bruise more easily... or take longer for bleeding to stop. get help right away for unexpected bleeding, or unusual bruising. it may increase your bleeding risk if you take certain medicines. tell your doctor about all planned medical or dental procedures. the number one cardiologist-prescribed blood thinner. ask your doctor about eliquis.

>> whitaker: if you are planning to travel by air over the thanksgiving or christmas holidays-- and millions of americans are-- would you jump at the chance to get to your destination in half the time? does new york to los angeles in under three hours sound appealing? the last commercial supersonic flight was almost 20 years ago, and even then, super-fast flights were only on very limited routes. most of today's jetliners actually fly more slowly than they did 20 or 30 years ago, in order to save fuel. but that may be about to change. it's still a long shot, but private start-up companies-- with a big assist from nasa-- may just give us all another chance to fly faster than the speed of sound. ( jet roar ) when british airways flight 002 roared into the new york sky on october 24, 2003, everyone on board-- passengers and pilots--

knew that something special was coming to an end. >> pilot: enjoy the moment, as you are the last people in the world, as passengers, to cruise at twice the speed of sound. >> whitaker: the supersonic concorde, a joint effort of the british and french governments, was making its last flight after nearly 30 years in the air, grounded by a combination of stratospheric costs, and safety concerns after a deadly crash in 2000. even people watching that last landing in london were emotional. >> kid: i just love airplanes. >> interviewer: and there's not going to be anything like concorde again, is there? >> kid: never. >> whitaker: well, you know that old maxim, "never say never?" >> blake scholl: supersonic's coming back. and it's going to be different this time. it's-- it's back to stay. >> whitaker: blake scholl is the founder and c.e.o. of boom. his audacious goal is to build a new supersonic airliner from scratch. has a private company ever built a supersonic aircraft, anywhere? >> scholl: no.

no, nowhere. it's been governments and militaries only. >> whitaker: boom is not the only american start-up company in the new supersonic sweepstakes. spike is developing an ultra-fast business jet, and hermeus aspires to make a hypersonic plane that would fly five times the speed of sound. but boom is the only entrant to actually build an airplane. this is it? >> scholl: that's it. >> whitaker: oh, wow. so far, blake scholl and boom have built this single-seater test plane, due to make its first flight next year. the passenger jet meant to follow is called overture. it only exists in artist renderings, but it's real enough for one of america's largest airlines to climb on board. so, is the overture the plane that united recently ordered? >> scholl: that's right. united just ordered 15 overture airplanes. so, more overtures than concordes were ever delivered into service. >> whitaker: is this united deal

like a-- a stamp of approval? >> scholl: i think it's incredibly validating. you know, when you are united, you take-- you take these things really seriously. >> whitaker: seriously enough to produce a slick promotional video that's already playing on many united flights. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> whitaker: the ad may say "supersonic is here," but it's not-- not yet. blake scholl is a software engineer who started his career at amazon, not in aerospace. but he insists he's going to make it happen. >> scholl: when i look several decades out, you know, what i want is to be able to be anywhere in the world in four hours, for 100 bucks. now, that's not where we start. but that's the end goal. >> whitaker: the concorde charged thousands-- thousands of dollars for a one-way flight from new york to london. how is it going to be possible for you to have a similar flight experience for $100? >> scholl: you keep iterating. and so, the same way-- you know, for example, electric cars, when

they first came out, they were pretty expensive. but we kept working on them. and the price came down. they got better and better. and so, we're going to do the same thing with supersonic jets. we're going to keep working on them. we're going to keep innovating. >> jon ostrower: this industry needs people dreaming big. that is essential. this industry was built on that. >> whitaker: jon ostrower is editor in chief of the "air current," a publication that tracks every development in commerical aviation, including boom and blake scholl. he admits that it's-- something like he is proposing has never been done by a private company before. but yet, he's convinced that he can do it. do you think he can? >> ostrower: i think you cannot ignore the obstacles that will be on the path to getting there. and i think the amount of money that is-- is required to make this happen, makes this a very long shot. >> whitaker: how much money will it take? >> ostrower: probably in the

neighborhood of at least $15 or $20 billion. >> whitaker: ostrower says that's about what it cost boeing to develop and build and certify a new sub-sonic airliner, and they already have huge manufacturing facilities. boom doesn't. blake scholl told us he can get overture built for $7 to $8 billion, but that's a lot more than the $300 million he's raised so far. and money's not the only hurdle. boom and united have promised their new plane will operate on 100% sustainable aviation fuel, but that doesn't exist yet in anything like the quantities they'll need. oh, and one other thing: >> ostrower: they're going to need an engine to do this. >> whitaker: and they don't have the engine yet. >> ostrower: they don't have an engine. >> whitaker: blake scholl says an engine is on the way, from the same company that built the supersonic engines for the concorde. >> scholl: and we are working with rolls royce on a custom jet engine that will power overture. >> whitaker: you're working with rolls royce.

it-- it doesn't ex-- this engine does not exist yet? >> scholl: it is a-- it is a lightly customized engine. and part of that is rolls of tning some design k. >> whitaker: blake scholl doesn't dismiss the skeptics, but he points to the example of elon musk, and says not so long ago, no one thought he could build teslas and reusable rockets. where does this passion come from? >> scholl: it's because we stopped making progress on the speed of travel. you know, the airplanes we have today are no faster than the ones we had when my parents were growing up. and there is no good reason for that. it doesn't have to be. we can fix it. >> whitaker: when do you expect the first paying customers to fly on one of your planes? >> scholl: by the end of the decade. >> whitaker: supersonic really only makes sense on flights of four or five hours, or more. but thousands of such routes are out of reach to boom. the reason is in the very name of his company. ( sonic boom ) that's the sound of a sonic boom

created by a plane breaking the sound barrier. listen again: ( sonic boom ) the first boom was made by chuck yeager's x-1 rocket plane when it passed through mach one-- about 660 miles per hour-- back in 1947. >> announcer: and he does it. ( sonic boom ) >> whitaker: what is the sonic boom? what-- what generates it? >> mike buonanno: so, when an aircraft flies faster than the speed of sound, it creates disturbances. >> whitaker: mike buonanno is a top engineer at lockheed martin's "skunkworks" aircraft design studio in california. dave richardson is his boss. >> dave richardson: a lot of us understand the wake that's generated by a ship or a boat. and so, imagine that wake from a speed boat or whatever, all those different waves coming to be one large wave. >> buonanno: those individual disturbances created up by the airplane, they combine together to make a loud double bang. >> whitaker: the federal aviation administration tested the impact of that big bang back

in 1964, by flying military supersonic jets like these over oklahoma city for six months. the outcome? broken bricks and ceilings, frayed nerves and public outrage. >> buonanno: it was just patently obvious that no one was going to tolerate such a loud noise on a day-to-day basis. >> whitaker: the result was a ban on civilian supersonic flights everywhere in the world, other than over open water. >> buonanno: and that basically hit the brakes on the development of commercial air travel, in terms of an advancing speed. up until that ban, every decade, air travel had gotten faster and faster. >> whitaker: the ban remains in place today. so, if boom gets its overture in the air, it will only be able to serve long trans-oceanic routes, similar to what the concorde flew. >> buonanno: so if you want to go from j.f.k. in new york to paris, that's okay. but for many of us, we want to fly places over land.

here living in los angeles, almost everywhere i want to go-- flying east, requires over-land travel. and that's one of the big problems that we're trying to solve. >> whitaker: buonanno and richardson and their lockheed martin team have been commissioned by nasa to build a test plane that can fly twice as fast as current airliners, without rattling nerves or breaking windows. your mission is to get rid of this sonic boom? >> buonanno: that's right. the entire point of the airplane is to reduce sonic boom. >> whitaker: the airplane is called the x-59. it will look like this, when it makes its first flight next year. for now, it looks like this, inside lockheed martin's assembly building. >> richardson: you're looking at the cockpit of the airplane, and there's no forward windscreen. this is it. >> whitaker: every part of the x-59 is streamlined and smooth, to disperse sound waves and transform the loud sonic boom into a much quieter "thump."

>> nils larson: if you look at it, it's pretty slick. i mean, it looks like a dart. >> whitaker: nils larson is the nasa test pilot whose job it will be to prove that the x-59 can replace the sonic boom with a simple thump. starting next year, he'll pilot some of the early test flights, and then its first sound tests. >> larson: that's coming to a town near you. so, our researchers are going to work with the public, and we're going to fly over various cities and towns, and they're going to give us the feedback of that thump. was that thump too loud? you know, did you even hear it at all? >> whitaker: so, if you are able to fly over populated areas, and provide this data, then the f.a.a. will use this data, perhaps, to lift this ban? >> larson: exactly. >> whitaker: are we likely to see planes in the future flying supersonic that look like this one? >> larson: i certainly hope so. and i think you will.

so, there are definite things that you would see, if you walked into a commercial, you know, supersonic airplane here, you know, ten, 12 years from now, and you were to look at that, you could see, you know, toasa's x-59 flight simur,thwe d is that there's a tv screen in place of the missing windshield. for you, does it work as well as using your own eyes? >> larson: yeah, i think-- so far, i think it does. about to go through mach one. there's mach one. you know, you see-- >> whitaker: so we're now going supersonic. >> larson: yup, you're now supersonic. >> whitaker: larson gave me a turn in the cockpit-- not to fly supersonic, but to land the x-59-- which is tricky, given that it's shaped like a pencil, has no windshield, and i'm not a pilot. >> larson: come up, follow them up just a little bit. so, pull back just a little bit, little bit more. and just hold it right there. hold it right there. there you go. you just landed the x-59.

and in the middle of the runway! >> whitaker: i landed-- i landed the-- >> larson: that's better than i did. ( laughs ) sign him up! >> whitaker: nils larson will start test-flying the real x-59 sometime next year. and soon after that, he'll be flying it over us. and if it's quiet enough, future planes that follow its design lead could eventually fly us lots of places, twice as fast as we can get there now. when might i be able to fly from new york to los angeles in a supersonic plane? >> richardson: so there's-- there's a long line of things that have to happen, starting with the x-59. but i think 2035 is your answer, if everything marches along the way that it's supposed to. >> whitaker: it's something that people have been trying to solve for-- for decades. have you guys solved that problem? >> buonanno: we believe we have. it's rewarding seeing it getting built. but i think that real "aha" moment for me is going to be when i hear that first shaped boom from x-59. >> whitaker: thump, thump.

>> buonanno: thump, thump. >> richardson: we won't hear this bang. and when we hear, or don't hear, that sound, is when we know we did it. ( ticking ) >> welcome to cbssportshq presented by >> i'm james brown. buffalo finds out jonathan taylor is different. tetenacious and terrorizes the titans. and baltimore, and one thing doesn't stay in vegas. washington proves to be ciment night spoiling superman's return. for 24/7 news and highlights return. for 24/7 news and highlights go to cbssportshq.com. they just sell candles, and they're making overhead? you know what kind of fish those are?

-no. -eh, don't be coy. [ laughs ] [ sniffs, clears throat ] koi fish. it can be overwhelming. think a second. have we seen this shirt before? progressive can't save you from becoming your parents. but we can save you money when you bundle home and auto with us. but you know what? i'm still gonna get it. people today... they could spend half their lives over 50. but it's gonna to take some planning. what can you do for me? make sure your money lives as long as you do. the younger you are, the more you need aarp. join today.

advanced non-small cellu remeu be chemoree combinatn the more you need aarp. of two immunotherapies that works differently. it could mean a chance to live longer. opdivo plus yervoy is for adults newly diagnosed with non-small cell lung cancer that has spread, tests positive for pd-l1, and does not have an abnormal egfr or alk gene. it's the only fda-approved combination of two immunotherapies. opdivo plus yervoy equals... a chance for more time together. more family time. more quiet time. opdivo and yervoy can cause your immune system to harm healthy parts of your body during and after treatment. these problems can be severe and lead to death. see your doctor right away if you have a cough; chest pain; shortness of breath; irregular heartbeat; diarrhea; constipation; severe stomach pain, nausea or vomiting; dizziness; fainting; eye problems; extreme tiredness; changes in appetite, thirst or urine; rash; itching; confusion; memory problems; muscle pain or weakness; joint pain; flushing; or fever. these are not all the possible side effects. problems can occur together and more often when opdivo is used with yervoy.

tell your doctor about all medical conditions including immune or nervous system problems, if you've had or plan to have an organ or stem cell transplant, or received chest radiation. here's to a chance to live longer. ask your doctor about chemo-free opdivo plus yervoy. thank you to all those in our clinical trials.

( ticking ) >> cooper: when workers broke ground on an underground parking lot in the heart of rome 15 years ago, they had no idea what their backhoes were about to unearth. the site turned out to be what italian archeologists believe was once "the pleasure gardens" of the roman emperor caligula--

where some 2,000 years ago, all sorts of lavish parties, royal intrigue, and debauched behavior likely took place. caligula became the third emperor of rome in 37 a.d., and he reigned for barely four years. he's been portrayed in history as one of the most deranged and despicable roman emperors ever to rule, but for years, scholars have been re-examining parts of caligula's story, to see if history has it right. could we discover some new fragments of truth in caligula's gardens? we were more than happy to go to rome, to find out. the temples and palaces of ancient rome may have crumbled long ago, but the legend of one of its oddest emperors lives on. >> caligula: down on your knees, all of you. bend your heads. i shall sever each one at the neck. >> cooper: what most people know about caligula comes from this iconic bbc series, "i, claudius," which was based on two historical novels by robert graves. ♪ ♪ ♪ in the show, caligula turns his palace into a brothel,

makes his horse a high-ranking senator, and declares himself a living god. >> caligula: for now, you may address me as zeus. >> cooper: it's a torrid tale of incest, infanticide... >> don't go in there. >> caligula: ( laughs ) >> cooper: ...and imperial madness. >> help me! >> cooper: but how much of that portrayal is real? did caligula impregnate his sister and then eat her baby? >> andrew wallace-hadrill: aughs ) caligula did not impregnate his sister and eat her baby. >> cooper: did caligula make a horse a high-ranking senator or consul? >> wallace-hadrill: no, no, of course he didn't. >> cooper: did he turn his palace into a brothel? >> wallace-hadrill: no. >> cooper: so, where did all these ideas come from? >> wallace-hadrill: well, largely from robert graves. you know, his "i, claudius" novels are awesome. but he wasn't an academic. he was a writer. >> cooper: andrew wallace- hadrill is an academic-- a professor emeritus at the university of cambridge, and

he's closely studied the few written accounts that survive from caligula's time. i grew up watching "i, claudius." i loved the book. i love the old tv series. you're telling me, a lot of that just wasn't true. >> wallace-hadrill: now, what i'm not denying is they had sex in the palace. of course they had sex. ( laughs ) pretty spectacularly, of course they had sex. >> cooper: ( laughs ) pretty spectacularly? >> cooper: but wallace-hadrill does believe caligula could be very impulsive and brutal, and he doesn't rule out the possibility that he may have had a severe physical or mental disorder. >> wallace-hadrill: i think there's a serious danger that caligula was-- was pathological, that he actually didn't care about the hurt he caused. >> cooper: wallace-hadrill says robert graves' novels were largely based on stories published around 121 a.d., 80 years after caligula's death, by suetonius, a well-known biographer and adviser to later emperors. but suetonius often had to rely on second-hand stories and

gossip from members of the imperial court. >> wallace-hadrill: these members of the court, it's-- you know, it's like staffers in the white house. it's like all those leaky people in buckingham palace. what are these stories worth? how can you pin them down? ( church bells ) >> cooper: archeology can help pin down the past, but in a city full of amazing ruins, not much directly linked to caligula had been discovered-- that is, until 2006. ( construction ) when a pension fund for italian doctors called enpam started digging an underground parking garage for its new office building in the esquilino neighborhood of rome. in ancient times, this was one of a number of tranquil garden estates located about ten minutes by carriage from the bustling roman forum. these re-creations from rome's superintendent of antiquities give some sense of the sprawling grounds and buildings enjoyed by emperors and their guests about four centuries. it took archeologists nine years

to carefully recover more than a million pieces of the past, while an underground parking garage and modern building was built around them. ( excavation ) everything found was taken to a large warehouse, where it was closely analyzed, logged into a database, and-- when possible-- painstakingly restored. the office building's completed now, and last month, rome's newest archeological site, the nympheum museum, opened in the basement, preserving some of the excavation, and suggesting what a lush and lavish place this once was. it contains thousands of items, from the second century b.c. through the fifth century a.d., like this drinking glass that somehow survived largely intact for 1,900 years. mirella serlorenzi, director of excavations for the italian ministry of culture, took us to a small staircase normally closed to the public, and brought us to the level of the ground during caligula's time. and so, back then, in the first

century, 2,000 years ago, this was outside? >> mirella serlorenzi ( translated ): it was clearly a garden, because we found in the layers traces of the roots of the plants, and in this part here, the staircase connected the various levels of the garden. >> cooper: is it possible to walk on it? >> serlorenzi: assolutamente. >> cooper: yeah? excellent. this is what serlorenzi's team believes the area looked like during caligula's reign. we ended up talking for a long time on the garden steps. is it all right to sit down? >> serlorenzi: sit, okay. >> cooper: there was something about touching those old slabs of marble that made ancient history feel very real. i can't believe that we are sitting on the steps that caligula may have walked on. it's amazing. she told us the water pipe by our feet was installed by caligula's successor, his uncle claudius. his name is stamped on the pipe. one of the most remarkable things about caligula is that he lived to become emperor at all.

the emperor before him, his adoptive grandfather tiberius, was suspected of killing caligula's father, mother, and two brothers. and when caligula turned 19, he was summoned to live with tiberius at his palace on the island of capri. it sts high on a cliff, and it's said tiberius would have people who crossed him tossed onto the rocks below. through some combination of flattery and deceit, caligula managed to survive here for six years with the man who may have killed much of his family. he became tiberius's successor in 37 a.d. he was just 24 years old, and in charge of an empire. >> wallace-hadrill: he was in a very, very difficult position. i like the saying of tiberius, who says, "being emperor is like having to hold a wolf by the ears." there's this sort of savage beast, that can turn on you any moment. >> cooper: what is so insecure about it? was it the system itself?

>> wallace-hadrill: you've got this enormous concentration of ro and everyone wants in on it. and they are prepared to do anything to seize this power. >> cooper: back then, the roman empire dominated the mediterranean world. and items found in the gardens give some sense of the riches that flowed towards rome. rare and intricately-carved marble from the far reaches of the empire decorated the walls of the buildings. glass recovered at the site appears to have been used in very early windows. and, large amounts of oysters appear to have been served at meals. mirella serlorenzi says her team recovered the bones of wild animals that would have been brought here from far-away lands. she showed us the leg of an ostrich, the foot of a lion, and the tooth of a bear. >> serlorenzi ( translated ): it's evident that wild animals were here for the entertainment of the emperor. games were carried out here with gladiators, we can imagine, and battles with ferocious beasts.

>> cooper: when he became emperor, caligula started improving rome's infrastructure. he began work on new aqueducts. he also cut taxes. serlorenzi says this coin found in the gardens was minted around 39 a.d. to remind romans that caligula got rid of a sales tax. 2,000 years ago, politicians were just like politicians today? if they cut taxes, they wanted everybody to know about it. >> serlorenzi ( translated ): that's exactly right. the coins are a form of imperial propaganda. >> cooper: but something changed as the years progressed. suetonius says caligula wanted to be treated as a god, and connected his palace in the roman forum to a major temple. that's the temple of castor and pollux? >> paolo carafa: exactly, exactly, and this column has been standing there for more than 2,000 years. >> cooper: that's incredible. >> carafa: they have been created in the year six. >> cooper: paolo carafa, professor of archeology at sapienza university of rome, has been studying the roman forum area for more than 35 years.

so, according to suetonius, caligula extended his house up to that temple? >> carafa: exactly. >> cooper: have you found evidence of that? >> carafa: behind the temple, recent excavation have identified fragments of a large house, a luxury house. >> cooper: he can't say for sure it was caligula's house, but he says it comes from that time period, and only an emperor like caligula would have dared do something so shocking. he wanted the temple to be the entrance to his own house? >> carafa: exactly. which is quite unusual. >> cooper: one of the things "i, claudius" seems to have gotten right, wallace-hadrill told us, was caligula's capacity for both physical and mental cruelty. ( crowd jeers ) >> wallace-hadrill: there's no doubt that caligula's brutal. but suetonius says he's not only brutal, he thinks it's amusing. he takes pleasure in it. >> cooper: perhaps the most telling account comes from a contemporary of caligula's, the philosopher seneca, who describes how caligula invited a father to a festive dinner on the day he had executed the

man's son. >> wallace-hadrill: and at the dinner, he insists that the father should have a jolly time. he plies him with wine and food. he even plies him with perfume and a garland. >> cooper: on the very day his son... >> wallace-hadrill: on the very day. and seneca says, people asked, how on earth could he endure to do it? and the answer is, he had a second son. and i think that anecdote just evokes the atmosphere of terror of the court of caligula. >> caligula: aaaaaah! coo aau" showed, the end came in 41 a.d. when caligula was stabbed to death by members of his own imperial guard. >> wallace-hadrill: he's killed by his own guardsmen, but then they haven't got a candidate. >> cooper: they don't have somebody waiting to take over? >> wallace-hadrill: they have no one in the wings. except poor old claudius. >> cooper: does that argue the point that he had to have been

really awful if they were so motivated to just kill him? >> wallace-hadrill: yeah, yeah. it's an assassination born of anger, humiliation, disgust. "we can't take this anymore." >> cooper: long after the assassination itself, some historians believe, caligula's enemies assassinated his memory as well. there's a number of contemporary scholars who have argued that caligula's critics distorted his memory, that they have falsely made him out to be far worse than he was. >> wallace-hadrill: of course. it's like entering a hall of mirrors and, you know, some of them are concave, and some are convex. and there are no flat mirrors. >> cooper: but isn't that terrifying, that what we think we know about history is so dependent on rumors, or... >> wallace-hadrill: but i think it's an enormous mistake to look at the past as a series of solid rocks that, you know, that

was definitely there. and that was definitely... it's-- it's a great morass, a flowing sea. i think that ancient history's very good for people, because it's got so much uncertainty in it. >> cooper: but why is it good that there's a lot of misinformation? >> wallace-hadrill: it's good because the world we live in is full of misinformation, as we have learned spectacularly in recent years. you know? people invent truths. you have to be skeptical. >> cooper: as we prepared to leave the nympheum museum, we couldn't help thinking about how time tramples even the mightiest of empires, turning lavish gardens into underground parking lots. what do you think caligula would think of-- of what's happened to his gardens? >> serlorenzi ( translated ): ( laughs ) i think he would be in total disagreement. and, i don't think he would be very happy that we are sitting on his staircase. ( ticking ) >> how did a mosaic from

caligula's reign turn up as a coffee table in a new york city apartment? that story, at 60minutesovertime.com. ♪ say it's all right ♪ ♪ say it's all right, it's all right ♪ ♪ have a good time 'cause it's all right ♪ ♪ now listen to the beat ♪ ♪ kinda pat your feet ♪ ♪ it's all right ♪ ♪ have a good time 'cause it's all right ♪ ♪ oh, it's all right ♪ this... is the planning effect. this is how it feels to have a dedicated fidelity advisor looking at your full financial picture. this is what it's like to have a comprehensive wealth plan with tax-smart investing strategies

designed to help you keep more of what you earn. and set aside more for things like healthcare, or whacomes down the road. this is "the planning effect" from fidelity. growing up in a little red house, or whacomes down the road. on the edge of a forest in norway, there were three things my family encouraged: kindness, honesty and hard work. over time, i've come to add a fourth: be curious. be curious about the world around us, and then go. go with an open heart, and you will find inspiration anew. viking. exploring the world in comfort.

any parent will tell you the second you have a kid, it's like your heart is living outside of your body, which means you never, ever stop worrying. that's why we got health insurance and for way less than we thought was possible. the kids' doctor and dental checkups are free and i get screenings for my cholesterol and my blood pressure and don't get me wrong, i still worry, just a little less. covered california. this way to health insurance. enroll by december 31st at coveredca.com

>> whitaker: on thursday this week, the pumpkin pie will taste a little sweeter. the green beans and almonds will have an extra snap. the stuffing will be a little richer, and the giblet gravy less lumpy. the turkey won't taste the least bit dry. this will have nothing to do with any tweaking of the recipes for the feast on the thanksgiving table. it has everything to do with the family members and friends gathered around it. families are planning to come together again-- with care, caution, and vaccination-- after nearly two years of pandemic separation. and who wouldn't be thankful for that? i'm bill whitaker. we'll be back next week with another edition of "60 minutes." happy thanksgiving. ♪ ♪ cases of anxiety in young adults are rising

as experts warn of the effects on well-being caused by the pandemic. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ people were afraid i was contagious. i felt gross. it was kind of a shock after i started cosentyx. four years clear. real people with psoriasis look and feel better with cosentyx. don't use if you're allergic to cosentyx. before starting, get checked for tuberculosis. an increased risk of infections —some serious— and the lowered ability to fight them may occur. tell your doctor about an infection or symptoms, or if you've had a vaccine or plan to. tell your doctor if your crohn's disease symptoms develop or worsen. serious allergic reactions may occur. learn more at cosentyx.com.

captioning funded by cbs captioning funded by cbs and ford. we go further, so you can. captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

previously on the equalizer... robyn: i'm the one you call when you can't call 911. dante: there's something i need... equalized. robyn: this is melody, one of my oldest friends. you had me at "risky." what's the plan? robyn: how's it going, harry? enjoying being dead? harry: five years of being stuck underground-- it's getting a little old. (alarm beeping) i'm asking, rob, help me live again. this isn't right. i'm a cop. you'll have your moment. but right now, it's my turn. so you're the vigilante everybody's been talking about. i think your mission just came to a close. (grunts, groans) not saying i approve of your methods... but i'm gonna look past it. for now. happy to help. heard about delilah. what happened to her friend-- that's a terrible thing. (shutter clicks)