(upbeat music) good morning and welcome to mosaic i am ron swisher bird always a privilege to host mosaic read on behalf of our producers, hugh burroughs and elizabeth ekdale bird we are celebrating the 500th anniversary of the protestant reformation and he said our lord's promise of the resurrection is not just books alone but in every leaf and springtime.

this is easter and we welcome you to this day the lord has made and we want you to rejoice and be glad in it. it is also a joy to host when i have such longtime friends and ministers and colleagues in the ministry to reflect on this great day. i welcome reverend dale witherspoon.>> good morning and happy easter. >> you are at cupertino and a good sam.>> united methodist, yes i am, and i have been there five years.>> and jim hopkins that make sure baptist in oakland. >> good morning, he is risen. >> good to have you both let me not assume everybody knows who you are, tell us a little bit about your background.>> i am a native san franciscan, born and raised here in the great city of san francisco and i grew up at jones memorial united methodist church. i went to seminary in 1996,

across the country to wesley thgical ryingtc. then i came back here and i have been in the south bay since 1999, i wife is also clergy pestering los altos united methodist church. we've been here since 1999 and i have pastored all four churches, all combinations are cross racial and cross-cultural churches. usually there are one or a few who look like me and the congregation, so aside from pastoring i do cultural competency training, i am also an activist with the pico network, people acting and community together, the pico affiliate in the suspect. >> and you have been a delegate to the general conference, we appreciate your experience. >> you're quite welcome.>> jim. >> i've been the pastor at

lakeshore avenue baptist church for 28 years now and easter sunday marks the beginning of my 29th. i arrived in oakland on april 16th, 1989.>> you baptists can stay a little longer.>> there is a different mindset there, strengths and weaknesses in each. the baptists tend to be a longer tenure than the methodists. but we are in it together. >> great to have you back, you are with us on thanksving.>> i was looking back over the years at the times i have been on mosaic it has always been good. i have learned it from you and my fellow guests. my take away is the san francisco bay area is blessed by some very courageous leaders and some very vibrant faith communities. >> thank you. i feel the same and this is my 16th year doing this, i have

met many colleagues i'm appreciative of. it might be my sixth time doing easter but i'm always looking to do something new. well, what can you say after 45 years of doing easter? you not quite close to those years, but what do you say this year and what are you thinking about for easter?>> you know, it is the joy of the celebration. one of the things is where we are in the country right now there is a lot of chaos and a lot of fear one of the things i hear in the scripture passage from matthew in the 28th chapter, it says do the angels say do not fear. we have the victory and we are able to celebrate. i asked my son, what is it that is special about you for easter? while jesus came back and you

can keep teaching so you have lots to learn.>> jim, we'll have a few more seconds.>> it is an important easter for me and that my mother-in-law passed away last october. this is the first easter without her, and i know that your mom has passed away. and to think on the theme he has risen, what that meant to him and the courage are brought in their lives, and what it means to us as we put their deaths in proper perspective.>> amen. i appreciate you both being there for my mom's service. let's come back to mosaic. join us with dale and jim hopkins.

welcome back to mosaic. we have been speaking about easter and what it means this year. dale mentioned about the joy. if you recall, they also had a lot of fear. and we have talked about the contrasts. how do you think the joy prevails in the story?>> one of the things i see about easter is they realized jesus promises were true. so there is the fear the savior has left them, he has died, and

they want to go to the tomb to see him. how am i going to live without my teacher, how will i live without the master or the rabbi? a great fear of what will happen to me? what will the powers do to me now that jesus is no longer here? so to go and discover that the tomb is empty and he has risen helps take away some of the fear. remember they came in the darkness. and one of the things about easter, we come to easter sunrise service in the darkness, and we worship and the light comes. so one easter we get the light that helps us overcome the darkness to help us overcome the fear.>> i like that, and john's gospel is huge on the light. jim.>> i have been thinking a lot about the exultation and invitation of the angel at the

tomb, especially the gospel of matthew, he is not here but has gone ahead of you to galilee and there you will see him. what does that mean? i think it means that sometimes to move forward you have to take a few steps back. that is what they had done most of jesus public ministry and that is where jesus met them and called them. the invitation was i would leave you forward in the midst of fear. right now we have to take a few steps back, i have to go back to galilee and that is where you knew me in my full power and that is where you knew god's perspective, that is where you knew god's promise, that is where you saw god at work in the lives of the common folk. that is where you saw the kingdom of heaven at hand. just take a few steps back and let's go back to galilee and reexperience the promise.>> thinking about that, the angels when they left the tomb, the scripture says they left in

fear and joy. so the fear does not go away immediately, but they left in fear and joy to go back and tell the others. you are right going back to galilee is where it all started. but at the same time you still have work to do. so we keep doing the work that was being done in galilee and you continue to do that work.>> there was unfinished business in galilee.>> you pointed it out, but mark you remember, this seemed to leave just in fear.>> where does mark's gospel and question if you want to debate that. but the short ending of mark is they were afraid. when we talk about easter we have to take into account that fear. but god works in the midst of fear.>> matthew's gospel, which he both referred to, is the only one that mentions the earthquake.

what do you do with the earthquake and what do you think of that dimension?>> that is a challenging one, right? is it literal, or metaphoric? i tend to go with metaphor, who else noticed it? it clearly is a symbol that the world is being shaken. i have a friend that says in the history of the cosmos, not the history of the human life, but the history of the cosmos, the most important event is the resurrection. because it is a sign that god intends to redeem all creation. it is not the fraser fry narrative for the cosmos, it is redemption, the resurrection is a sign of that and the earthquake points to that.>> i think earthquakes always get our attention. the ground shakes, it isn't business as usual.

there is anticipation also because when earthquakes come we are waiting for the aftershock and what is next. so the earthquake came, and it says the angel rolled away the stone. they were sitting on top of it. like okay come on. so, this earthquake, there is power with earthquakes and things are shifting and changing and maybe we are looking at it metaphorically, how things are about to change with this resurrection experience.>> behold i make all things new.>> bishop william wilmont are retired united methodist bishop, he points out that he thinks the earthquake, as well as the story of easter, is not about us. it is because everyone else had disappeared. even with the women coming, they were coming not expecting my four resurrection.

they cannot make it happen and they cannot remove the stone. the story has soldiers they are trying to block it.>> like the biblical story of the exodus, there are a lot of parallels between exodus and resurrection, and in exodus god is the main actor. moses matters, the people matter and pharaoh matters, but god is the actor. you could make the same case for the story of the resurrection god is the main actor. now, humans have to receive it and preach it, and that becomes one of the debates about easter. so who are the messengers and the heralds of easter? it is men and women alike, god acts but he pretty quickly chooses partners.>> god who uses who god will to bring about the salvation story. i like this phrase, the bad

news is not the last news, there is still good news. and god is bringing about this a good news, this a good news of liberation, of a new life, new possibilities. as you just said, behold i am making all things new. so god uses the angels, god uses the women, god uses the pharisees, god uses everyone in the story to bring about god's desire outcomes.>> let's hear more about that good news in another segment. thank you. please join us for the next segment.

welcome back to mosaic i'm ron swisher. we have been speaking to dale witherspoon and jim hopkins, they have been talking a little bit about the good news, and who tells the good news. most of the stories the women are first. why would the gospel writers take women who are marginalized within, and many times now, behe okespers i think it is witnessed that

the gospel is not only from and the marginalized but it is for the marginalized. and those who speak it often receive it. and clearly we are talking about galilee, jesus ministry was primarily among the marginalized. the religiously marginalized, economically marginalized, racially marginalized. marginalized because of health and different interpretation of purity codes. it is the women bearing the good news is witness to the gospel comes for the marginalized and from the marginalized.>> excellent. >> that phrase nothing good comes out of nazareth, and jesus is coming out of nazareth, and as jim are saying, the women were marginalized, and again god is using those on the margins, the women were faithful and they walked out their resources and their faith, so this piece of

faith, they're sharing it with one another and jesus is lifting them up because as we lift up women and children, all of humanity is lifted up.>> not the least was left out. and we have another one, the lonely.>> yes. >> and we all tend to set up oufences. and just when we set up those fences, or those boundaries of how and why god is working, all of a sudden the holy spirit is out over here saying you have to break that fence down and come follow me a little further.>> most of our services we hope our full that day and this day. what do you think the people are looking for when they come? you have said excellent theological statements, both of you. but do people think that way? are they thinking

theologically? or more pragmatic? some of the things y'all are saying is very pragmatic but i'm just not sure. >> every protestant congregation i know of in every pastor that i know of wrestles a little bit th thristmas begrudge it less. there is something very clear s something clear about the christmas message, god is with you, god is for you. that is what they want to hear, a reminder their lives matter to god. and as such, come on easter and the minister will try to point to that number and also the minister will try to get out of the way because the story is a lot bigger than us.>> at my congregation a good samaritan we've had a tradition for 31 years, where we do a lenten devotional booklet and this

year were focusing on the gospel of luke. members of congregation have been writing daily reflections on selected passages of luke's gospel. so as we go deeper into what is god calling us and what is god doing? for some of us we have to wrestle. what is it that is holding us? what is it that is holding us to slavery, to sin and death, just in theological language? what is keeping us from living the fullness of life? that is that dark time. the easter message is we are coming with the hope and joy. easter is in the springtime and springtime is about new growth and we are watching the flowers bloom. so how do we blame and become new again? baptism is tied with the easter. so with baptism it is new life. i think people are coming with the expectation to receive some joy to celebrate and live in new hope.

>> we've started the book of acts in our church, so we go back to luke and so forth. we did once pause and we did read the prodigal son story, which we give it the name, not jesus. but a lot of the members did not care for it because of the prodigal son. seems to put it off and he gets a break and the eldest is left out. >> yes the elder brother gets more than he deserves. similar our study this lenten season is the biblical theme of sacrifice. you know sacrifices giving something up, the hebrew word for sacrifice really means drawing near, god draws near but we're making the case that as we give things up, things that block the presence of god, god does draw near as our fear, our hate, our

anger. there is a lot of clutter stuff that needs to be moved out of the way that will give god opening into our lives which is represented by the stone in front of the tomb. role that away, god can get in and jesus can get out. >> that is great. we have one more segment and we will wrap it up with a more thoughts. please join us on mosaic.

i hope you have joined us here on mosaic with two of my

colleagues that have expressed the word in such a powerful way, this good news on this easter. we want to close with a few more words and thoughts that we might leave with hope and joy, and not just fear. dale why don't you start? >> jim was talking about the stone being rolled away. part of what we're doing in the lenten season leading up to easter as we hear about repentance. it is a church word and it causes some people some problem, but repentance means to change, to turn and walk a different way. as we repent and we give up those things that hold us, it is moving the stone away so we can continue to go forward and go in the direction that god is calling us to go. the other word we use, two h words for easter, it is hallelujah and hosanna. hosanna means jesus saves and as we repent we realize we

cannot save ourselves, as a nation or individually, we cannot save ourselves, we need god to help us and jesus is showing us the way.>> there is a new book called hallelujah anyway. i have not read it yet but i just picked it up. jim. >> my invitation to all folks, even if you've not been to church for a while, come on in we more than want you there, we need you. i always tell folks you never know what your presence there means to somebody else. whether you believe or not believe, or on the way to believing, that is not the question. come share the joy with us. your presence there will mean something to somebody else.>> both of you have been inspiring. but i want to know where your churches are. if i wasn't preaching myself i would like to hear you this morning. dale where are you?

>> 19 624 homestead road in cupertino. as i often say to my congregation there is no such thing as strangers, we are all brothers and sisters so let us come and be a part of god's beloved community. amen. we worship at 9.00 a.m.. >> one service.>> yes one service in english and a 11:00 service in mandarin. >> that is quite diverse. spit lakeshore avenue baptist church, 3534 lakeshore avenue in oakland, our worship is at 10:00 and at 4:00, are peoples of burma congregation worships.>> i read something by albert einstein recently. he said that you cannot read the gospels and not feel jesus coming through. he pulsates with life on every word that comes through.

this isn't a myth. it is life. i love that. i might have used it already but i plan to use it again this morning. i think jesus is the story. and jesus is the one who rises from the dead and calls us all out of our tombs. any final words?>> it is interesting that you quote einstein. he helped us understand the universe is curved and where does it curve? it ultimately curves towards jesus and hope which is the message of easter. >> easter is about the good news. do not despair. do not fear. we have opportunity for new life as we put our hand in the master's hand and walk with jesus. spin that is great, thank you dale for being with us, and jim. >> always a pleasure.>> god

bless you. >> you have been with us for this time and we hope that god's grace and god's resurrection power will be in your life this day it so forth and celebrate easter. hallelujah.

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and keep the public safe. right now, streaming on cbs news bay area a little girl from hayward presumed dead. her mother has been charged with murder. this week's cal t train crash. russia pointing the finger of blame at ukraine. their claims that ukraine is to blame for dangerous evacuations. good morning, it's sunday march 13th. thank you so much for joining us. let's start with a quick check on our weather with first alert meteorologist brian has kin. good mng