come home to me ♪ ♪♪ captioning sponsored by cbs russia forces haveregrouped andd their brutal assault on eastern ukraine. our scott pelley spoke with ukrainian president zelenskyy for 60 minutes. we'll have a preview. >> we think this will be a new wave of this war. >> brennan: what more can the u.s. do to help? we'll talk with white house national security advisor jake sullivan. and ukraine's ambassador to the u.s., oksana markarova. and then we'll check in on the news here at home.

is there a spring surge of covid underway? we'll ask dr. scott gottlieb. we'll talk to cleveland federal reserve bank president loretta mester, about covid and the conflict adding to soaring prices at home. finally, obama homeland security secretary jeh johnson weighs in on the growing crisis at the border, after the biden administration wants tolihpoyonn "face the nation." ♪♪ >> brennan: good morning. and welcome to "face the nation." we are 46 days into this devastating war in ukraine, and the number of attacks and atrocities continues to mount. russian forces have

retreated from the north, but have dramatically stepped up their advancement in the east. we begin today with deborah patta reporting from kyiv, and we want to warn viewers some of the pictures you're about to see are disturbing. >> reporter: from land, sea, and air, the donbas region has already been pummeled relentlessly since the war began over six weeks ago. there is not much that hadn't been reduced to rubble, in cities like mariupol, where the people trapped inside are enduring what one resident described as misery worse than hell. and a new imagery shows a russian convoy of hundreds of armed vehicles moving steadily south, with a new battlefield commander at the helm, accused of ordering strikes that flatten civilian neighborhoods in syria. ukrainian officials are

urging residents to get out of there, even though it means risking a journey fought with danger. on friday, more than 50 civilians, including children, were killed in a missile attack on a train station where they were heeding official warnings to flee. in the cap capital, things could not look more different. unthinkable a few weeks ago, ukraine's president volodymyr zelenskyy walking the deserted streets during a surprise visit with the u.k.'s boris johnson, who brought promises of more military aid and more outrage. >> what putin has done in places like bucha and irpin is war crimes, his war crimes have permanently polluted his reputation. >> reporter: but the liberation of areas near kyiv has been muted by the growing list of russian atrocities. from the roads in bucha littered with bodies to

the mass graves filled with executed civilians. the hot line set up to report war crimes has been overwhelmed. more than 15,000 calls a day, says ukraine's human rights chief.[speaking foreign language] >> reporter: one cannot imagine that something like this can happen in the 21st century, she told us. she is determined to collect enough evidence to go straight to the international criminal court in the hague. yet another mass grave containing at least 130 bodies has been discovered near kyiv. but he pulled out of the international criminal court in 2016. margaret? >> deborah patta in kyiv, thank you. we have tonight's 60 minutes interview. >> what are you expecting now in the east and in the south?

>> we think this will be a new wave of this war. we don't know how much russian weaponry there will be, but we understand there will be many times more than there is now. it all depends on how fast we will be helped by the united states.[speaking foreign language] >> reporter: to be honest, whether we will be able to survive depends on this: i have 100% confidence in our people and in our armed forces, but unfortunately i don't have the confidence that we will be receiving everything we need. >> brennan: scott's interview with president zelenskyy will air on tonight's "60 minutes". we go now to national security advisor jake sullivan. good morning to you, jake. >> good morning, margaret. > brennan: vladimir putin reportedly tapped a new central war commander for ukraine, the same general who oversaw a very brutal campaign in syria, where they bombed hospitals and killed civilians.

is this the signal that this is the type of scorched earth warfare we need to expect? >> margaret, i think it is consistent with the way russia has conducted this war from the beginning. we've seen scorched earth warfare and mass killings, horrifying and shocking images from towns like bucha, and the rocket attack. so think this is an indication we will see more of that. >> brennan: vladimir putin's spokesperson said a few days ago that russia has suffered significant losses of troops. but you say russia still has forces it can use to outnumber ukraine. do you assess that ukraine can win more than just the capital of kyiv? >> well, first, let's pause there for a moment because it is a remarkable thing that the ukrainians won the battle of kyiv. russia lost the battle of kyiv. kyiv still stands. the capital city of ukraine was subject to an attack as its invading

neighbor tried to conquer kyiv, and russia failed. and they failed chiefly because of the bravery and skill of the ukrainian armed forces, but they also failed because the united states and our partners put in the hands of those armed forces advanced weapons that helped beat back the russians. so we were proud to be able to support the ukrainians in that. now, the russians are regrouping, they're refitting, and they're refocusing, and they're refocusing out in the east where they will try to make progress. >> brennan: european leaders are walking around kyiv. when are the americans going to go back? >> we're working on positions when we will be able to set our diplomatic presidents up in kyiv. it gets worked through our securest professionals. they are actively doing that. in the meantime, margaret, the united nations is surging resources, and

also diplomatic resources to support the ukrainians. it was president biden and the united states who took the league at the united nations. it is the united states that is taking the lead in organizing just our supplies, but those of our allies. we will do that as we work on getting american diplomats back into the country. >> brennan: you're referring to a more muscular support. does that mean the united states has authorized sending the weapons that could be used inside russia? >> first, our focus is on helping ukrainians defend their territory back in ukraine, territory they have taken back in the north and northeast of the country, and we want to set them up to be able to do the same in other places as well. second, when it comes to the issue of training, the u.s. is looking at systems

that would require some training for the ukrainians. we're also looking to source weapon systems from allies and partners that the ukrainians already know how to use. a good example of that is the s300 air defense system that slovenia sent this week. the reason they sent it is because the united states was willing to supply a patriot battery to replace that system. so it is about getting other partners and allies that have other equipment that the ukrainians need and we're helping them do do so. >> brennan: what are the bits of equipment you're talking about now? >> this week chairman millie and i spent two hours on the phone with the ukrainian armed forces commander and president zelenskyy's top advisor. and we went through every single one of their requests, priority by priority, and worked through a game plan that how either from our stocks

or our stocks from our allies and partners, to get that to the ukrainians. that's the kind of level of effort that the united states is putting into this, not just on our own behalf, but leading a coalition of countries to deliver for the ukrainians. >> brennan: jake, i want to play for you something that president biden said just after russia invaded. >> biden: no one expected the sanctions to prevent anything from happening. it is going to take time. they are profound sanctions. let's have a conversation in another month or so to see if they're working. >> brennan: we're now well-past a month. do you think president putin just doesn't understand the profound impact on his economy? does he not feel it or has he just not care? >> they have pulled back

portions in northern ukraine -- >> brennan: because of what is happening on the balancedfield? >> chiefly the reason they made those adjustments is because they were beaten on the battlefield. but as you heard from the kremlin spokesperson, they're acknowledging major losses, and president putin is acknowledging the pain on the russian economy. he has spoken about the compettheextent to which the russian economy has been hit. in addition, as president biden has said repeatedly, the goal of these sanctions in part is to impose costs on russia, to make it harder for them to fuel their war machine and over time to grind down russian power and capacity. and, yes, as president biden said, that will take time, but we will continue to squeeze russia, to impose costs on russia, and we believe that as

those costs mount, they will, in fact, improve ukraine's position at the bargaining table and make an outcome of this war that ukraine wants to see more likely. >> brennan: jake, what you're laying out is a very slow bleed of the ukrainian people. what we're hearing from president zelenskyy on this program last sunday was an attempt to ex term nato. extermirnate. he said 2,000 people have gone missing. it is hard for people to stomach that the united states does not have more responsibility to protect. humaghts, w do you ran justify that? >> it is a responsibility to supply the ukrainians with the tools they need to be able to defend their cities and push back against the russians. we have done that at unprecedented scope, scale, and speed.

and it has had a profound effect. the victory in the battle fof kyiv, the liberation of cities and towns in ukraine, they are, as i said before chiefly about ukrainian bravery and skill, but they would not be possible without the supply of weapons and the generosity of the american people and the leadership of president biden in rallying the world. and those sanctions that are imposing severe costs on the russian economy, they will have an affect. >> brennan: jake sullivan, thank you for your time today. >> thank you. >> brennan: we turn now to our national security correspondent, david martin. i know you've been looking into these alleged war crimes. i can think of one current and one former war leader same story for vladimir putin? >> that is probably the most likely scenario. i talked to the state department official who is

in charge of assembling all of this evidence, and she said because putin is so clearly all-powerful in moscow, it is relatively easy to make a war crimes case against him. you don't have to come up with some smoking gun order, i, vladimir putin, direct you to kill civilians. all you have to do is show that he knew what was happening and did nothing to stop it. so she flatly predicted that he will be indicted as a war criminal. taking him into custody is, obviously, another problem. but, if an arrest warrant is issued for him, he becomes an international fugitive, and he cannot travel to any country that recognizes the validity of that arrest warrant. so at the very least, he could be confined to russia for the rest of his life. >> brennan: recognizesthealidity

there, david ou about what we ju fro sulliva he tto-hoalwithchan millie, layg out more equipment and training for ukrainian forces. what do they actually need to win the fight? >> the training that he is talking about, at least that i know of, is on these switch blade lawyering drones they are now sending by the hundreds, and on another drone called the puma. those are r relatively quick training courses, two days and you can learn how to operate it. if you're talking about an m1 abrams tank, that is just not a quick fix to what they are facing now. you said win. win is a big word. if win means force the russians to retreat and surrender, that's probably not going to happen. and it's probably not a

good idea. vladimir putin made a colossal blunder, but he still has got sao him come out with his hands up for fear he will become desperate enough to resort in some way to somnuclear weapons. >> brennan: so you fight to a stalemate to get to the negotiating table? >> it is more than just a stalemate because that battle that is shaping up in the east, they're trying to cut off the ukrainian army and then kill it. and if it can do that, then the rest of the country is open. i think vladimir putin learned the hard way he does not have enough troops to occupy the entire country, but the further he can advance, the stronger his hand at whatever negotiating table he ends up at. >> brennan: david martin, thank you for your reporting and analysis.

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>> brennan: and wer back with ukraine's ambassador to the united states, oksana markarova. welcome to "face the nation." >> thank you. >> brennan: we just heard from jake sullivan all of the equipment that the u.s. is considering giving and training, he says, to ukrainian forces -- what specifically do you need now? >> well, we work now on a daily basis with our colleagues here, and i have to say that there is progress and i will not, of course, disclose the specifics of what we're working on. i'd rather surprise russians on the battlefields with it. but i think there is an understanding that after the battle of kyiv, we really have to win this battle of donbas, and we have to win this war. and we need all of the equipment, all of the fire power, all of the anti-air, in order to be able to do so. >> brennan: there has already been eight years of fighting in the east before this full-scale

invasion. so when you are looking at the full force of the russian military bearing down on this region, exactly what are you preparing for? what are you telling ukrainians to prepare for? >> we have seen this, as you rightfully pointed out, we have been saying for eight years, and we have seen these atrocities and these horrible attacks in the east, russia occupied illegally and attacked in 2014 and 2015. right now we see all of the airstrikes, in mariupol, essentially destroying the cities from the air, but also the atrocities from the ground, which now everyone sees after we were able to liberate north of kyiv. so what we're preparing is for the massive attack in the east. yes, the enemy, the russians, they are demotivated, they are war criminals, but there are so many of them and they still have so much

equipment. and it looks like they're going to use all of it. so we're preparing for everything. we're preparing for securing the city limits. that's why (indiscernable) for the safety of children and women. we saw what happened in crimea, when russia attacked, the effort in order to get as many citizens out from where we expect intensified attacks to be. and, of course, our armed forces. the president, the commander in chief, and all of the armed forces, they are preparing for whatever russia is going to do in order to be able to defend us. >> brennan: the justice department says it is working with your government on these alleged war crimes. and we've heard president zelenskyy say you have people in custody who have shared information about what they were told to do. they had maps of civilian areas they were told to bomb. so what happens to those rank-and-file soldiers?

do they face trial in ukraine? >> well, look, i know we have to -- i can say war crimes because we see them. we see them in realtime, and we have all of these witnesses on the ground. we filed all of the criminal charges in the international court. we have the criminal cases opened in ukraine, more than 4,000 individual criminal cases already by the prosecutor general. we have more countries who opened their criminal prosecutions, and we're providing all of the evidence to them. so, yes, all of them will be prosecuted, military commanders, personnel, people who did it on the ground, and people who ordered it, and ultimately putin. >> brennan: the united states is not -- where do you want these individuals to face trial? >> everywhere. there should be no place on earth where they could hide. yes, we would like them to

be tried in ukraine. and we hope after we win and after ukraine is liberated, that we will have a tribunal. i think ukraine and our people are entitled to a full-scale tribunal. but anywhere they can be prosecuted is fine. >> brennan: the united nations estimates hundreds of ukrainians have been moved to russia since the invasion began. president zelenskyy said 2,000 children were abducted in his u.n. address, he made that claim. what evidence do you have of that, and do you know what is happening in these so-called camps? >> we just put out an official resource calls war crimes in ukraine, and we have information there that almost half a million people, more than 400,000 have been forced to russia, and out of that 91,000 are children. >> brennan: what happened and why? >> we're trying to locate all of them and get as much information as

possible. we have evidence and accounts that they're taken to some temporary camps, and russians are taking away their documents, and they're trying to relocate them somewhere else in russia and ban them from moving back. so it is, again, another horrific war crime. and we're working day and night to essentially locate the people, and wehave ge numbers to the con people can cl us where they are, who they are, so we can see and locate them. we're trying everything possible to get them home safely. >> brennan: ambassador, thank you for your time today. and we'll be back with more "face the nation." stay with us. these are the camper scouts. earning their eco badge. they're sharing this fedex electric vehicle and frank's sustainable camping store they're sharing this fedex electric vehicle with their global scout community. good thing frank uses fedex to help him expand his reach

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>> brennan: a new cbs news poll out this morning shows that americans

continue to be supportive of u.s. efforts in ukraine, with high support es, also u.s. trooollie but just one in four would be in favor of sending u.s. troops directly into the conflict in ukraine. that dynamic changes dramatically, though, if russia were to attack nato allies or use nuclear or chemical weapons. that's different. we'll be right back. ack. erent h? aren't we all just looking for the hottest stocks? (fisher investments) nope. we use diversified strategies to position our client's portfolios for their long-term goals. (other money manager) but you still sell investments that generate high commissions for you, right? (fisher investments) no, we don't sell commission products. we're a fiduciary, obligated to act in our client's best interest. (other money manager) so when do you make more money, only when your clients make more money? (fisher investments) yep. we do better when our clients do better. at fisher investments, we're clearly different. our commitment to you is clear. save money. live better.

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>> brennan: we'll be right back with a lot more "face the nation." former f.d.a. commissioner dr. scott gottlieb is standing by. stay with us. ♪♪

>> brennan: welcome back to "face the nation." we turn now to the covid pandemic and the uptick in cases in some parts of the country. we go now to former f.d.a. commissioner and pfizer board member dr. scott gottlieb. good morning to you, dotor. the numbers, compared to where we were, obviously this is a dramatic improvement, but still 600 deaths a day. here on the east coast, we've had so many high-profile affections, the speaker of the house, tcommerce secretary.

>> doctor: we have about 9 cases per 100,000 cases a day. and parts of florida, as well, which tends to track the northeast, is driven largely by ba-2. we're probably only picking up one in seven or eight inftiit is probably closer to a million infections a day. and that's because a lot of people are testing at home, so they're not getting cou 89% over the last 14 days in washington, d.c., and up 65 in new jersey, so cases up in the northeast and the midlastic are mid --mid-atlantic are going up. we're looking to get through this ba-2 wave, and i don't think it will become a nationalized epidemic of ba-2. and as we get further into the spring, we're liking

to see the case numbers come down. >> brennan: when you say we're dramat dramatically under reporting the infection levels. so if we can't trust the data at the local level, if the c.d.c. is already saying things are looking great, how do i accurately judge what is actually happening and when i need to put my mask back on? >> doctor: the c.d.c. shifted a lot of their measurement towards hospitalizations and away from actually looking at cases. and hospitalizations are low. there are 15,000 people hospitalized, and that's the lowest point at any point in this pandemic. i expect hospitalizations are not going to go up a lot, because a lot of people getting infecting how are people who esc omioo te.no areoreliake dece diagnose

and infection and get treatment, and so i don't think hospitalization will kick up ato look the state data, and look at the week over week increases and assume we're capturing a very small percentage of infections. so if you see cases going up in your local community, that is a good indication there is more infection that what we're measuring. >> brennan: there are a lot of unmasked, indoor events that are happening. should the c.d.c. change the definition of fully vaccinated to make sure it includes that booster dose. does that make a difference? >> doctor: the booster dose clearly makes a difference, not only in the risk of getting infected and spreading the infection, but also having a bad outcome. we're calling the boosters -- wg people who are vulnerable to the infection to get a shot every six months. that's effectively what we're doing to make sure

they have maximum protection. we're transitioning to this probably becoming an annual vaccination. and so to maintain people's immunity, it is required as this virus has evolved into new variants, it requires a booster every six months. i think the retailer is by the fall, it will become an annual vaccine. i think they're reluctant to pull the trigger on that because they're uncertainly about what the recommendation will be in the fall. but it is likely there will be a recommendation for everything to get a dose in the fall. >> brennan: that some of the c.d.c. guidance still remains, six feet and 15 minutes of time -- is shaking someone's hand and kissing someone on the cheek advisable right now? >> doctor: that is close

contact, kissing someone on the cheek -- >> brennan: even if it is less than 15 minutes? >> doctor: they talk like this is radiation exposure. this is catching -- either you catch it or you don't. if you're hugging someone, it supercedes 15 minutes. close contact is what we know close contact is. with respect to the president, i hope he does well and doesn't catch it. i think he is probably out of the woods from his contact with the speaker of the house. that clearly was close contact. i think we need to be plain spoken about how we describe these things. >> brennan: i think people appreciate you being plain spoken. if you're here in an area where there is an uptick, do you send your

unvaccinated child to school with a mask, and how long do they remain unvaccinated? >> doctor: i think masks in very young kids has always been difficult. because they can't wear medical masks, and they don't wear masks well. i think if you have an adolescent child or an older child who can wear a mask well, and you have access to n-995 masks and the child can wear it, i think about masking for a week or two when prevalence is high, might be a prudent step to take. it is something we use for temporary periods of time. you might want to think about it for a couple of week period. i think things will come down in the northeast over the next two or three weeks. i think we'll see things come down sharply. but right now the prevalence is high in the north atlanta. >> brennan: and we're still looking at may, at the earliest, for a kiddie

vax? >> i think may is early. assuming the data coming up out in april as expected, i think the agency could potentially act in may. my hunch is it will slip because the sense of urgency will have dissipated a little because affection rates will be relatively low as we get into the spring. >> brennan: dr. gottlieb, thank you very much for your expertise. we'll be right back. that's also gentle on skin. for wrinkle results in one week. neutrogena®. for people with skin. welcome to ameriprise. i'm sam morrison, my brother max recommended you. so my best friend sophie says you've been a huge help. at ameriprise financial, more than 9 out of 10 of our clients are likely to recommend us. our neighbors the garcia's, love working with you. because the advice we give is personalized. hey john reese, jr. how's your father doing? to help reach your goals with confidence. my sister told me so much about you. that's why it's more than advice worth listening to.

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♪♪ [ sneezing ] are your sneezes putting your friends in awkward positions? stick with zyrtec. zyrtec starts working hard at hour one... ...and works twice as hard when you take it again the next day. zyrtec. muddle no more. >> brennan: a new cbs poll shows a bit of a difference in how americans are experiencing the economy. half of americans say the local job market is good, almost two-thirds say the national economy is bad, as inflation and gas prices are seen as the biggest drags on the economy. we want to welcome to the program the president of the federal reserve bank of cleveland, loretta mester. good morning to you. >> good morning. thanks for having me. >> brennan: well, it is, of course, the federal reserve's job to try to

get this inflation under control. you're one of the few people who actually gets a vote in setting those interest rates. to be frank, it does seem the fed was behind the curve on inflation. how do you make up for lost time and get it under control now? >> you know, so we are very committed to maintaining and achieving our duel man ddate goals. we have the process under way to remove the emergency accommodation that was so needed at the start of the pandemic and throughout. now we're in the process of removing it so we do get inflation under control while at the same time maintaining a strong economy and the expansion and good labor market conditions. that process has started. we raised the interest rate last meeting, and we said ongoing interest rate increases are on the table

and in the cards. and we've also put out some information about how we are planning to reduce our balance sheet assets that we also bought in great quantities to support the economy during the pandemic. so that process is under way, and that will help to reduce excess demand, which is outpacing con straint and supply and bring prices down. >> brennan: where do you see inflation by the end of the year? >> i think it will take some time to get inflation down because there are other things going on in the economy that are adding the price increases, including the energy increases that are happening as well. i think inflation will remain above 2% this year and even next year, but the trajectory will be that it will be moving down. >> brennan: for people on an everyday basis, how they experience the economy, you look at numbers that moody's put

out, and they said the average person will spend $1300 or gas this year. and you see them talk about holidays for gas relief, and when you hear things like that, are you afraid this will add to inflation? >> i do think we have to recognize there are factors that are beyond monetary policy infecting the inflation numbers. but we have to do what we need to do to make sure that those inflations and higher prices don't become embedded in the economy. it is no doubt it is very painful to have these high prices. it is even worse if you look at low-income consumers because they spend a greater portion of their consumption basket on the essentials, housing, energy, food, and all of those prices have gone up at a higher

inflation rate than just the average inflation rate. so this is a serious problem and it is a real painful problem for many in the country. wages are going up, so that's a good thing, but for many families they're not going up at the pace that inflation is going up. >> brennan: right. >> so it is very important that we get inflation under control, and that's the biggest challenge right now for the u.s. economy. >> brennan: the white house argues the true read of the economy is the strong jobs market. do you believe employment is too strong to actually generate a recession? >> i think, and i'm optimistic, that we'll be able to remove monetary policy accommodation and maintain good labor market conditions and the expansion. i believe that for a couple of reasons. one, underlying demand in the economy if you look at consumption growth and you look at business investment, it is very strong. it is not going to be as strong this year as it was last year, but last year

the economy grew at 5.5%, which is well above a 2% trend. but the other reason is because we're at emergency levels of accommodations. so as we remove that monetary accommodation, right, we're not saying that accommodation or monetary policy will be tight, we're removing accommodation. so i think we can reduce that demand and relative supply without pushing the economy into recession. it will be challenging, but i think we can do it. >> brennan: so you think goldman sachs and bank are of america and deutsche bank are wrong when they talked about increased risk of recession? >> no. i think looking at what is happening with the world there is an increased risk. but i remain optimistic about that the expansion will continue. >> brennan: there is so much going on in the world

that can complicate the recovery of the economy, whether it is covid or the war in ukraine, i want to ask you about what we're seeing happening right now in shanghai, china. 25 million people under lockdown. this is a financial hub for this country. manufacturing hubs in that country also experiencing this. when you see these zero covid policies in china, do you look at that and you say that means prices in america will just stay where they are or be pushed higher when there is a covid lockdown? >> so, a couple of things: certainly the lockdown in china is going to exacerbate the problems that we have in supply chain. so that is putting upward pressure on prices, and certainly all of the businesses that we talked to in my port district and elsewhere through the country are saying that, you know, we have pushed out when we think the supply chain issues are going to be resolved. so not this year, but next

year. so that is something we have to consider when we're looking at sort of developments on the ground. but i do think that eventually some of the supply chain problems are going to come back down. and we've seen that over time, right? in one sector we have a supply chain problem and then that is resolved. businesses are incredibly creative and resilient, it is just that it is a rolling problem, but we have to be aware that will add upward pressure and keep prices up longer. >> brennan: loretta mester, thank you for your insights today. we'll be back in a moment.

♪ >> brennan: as we enter peak migration season, the c.d.c. is intending to lift title 42. potentially causing a huge surge at the border. for more, we turn to jeh johnson, secretary of the department of homeland security under president obama. >> good morning, margaret. >> brennan: when we hear from the administration ma as 18,000 migrantss per day crossing that

border, it seems incredible. senate democrats have said the administration is not prepared. do you think they are? >> margaret, i'm told by d.h.s. officials, the department i once ran, that they are making preparations, that they are prepared, that there are resources, transportation in place, for this level of migration on our southern border. this -- without a doubt, these are large numbers. d.h.s., i believe, has learned lessons from the past, including when i was in office. but, still, numbers at these levels are difficult to handle on the southern border. communities on the southern border, catholic charities, volunteers -- it is difficult to absorb these types of numbers under almost any scenario.

it is challenging for the border patrol, for i.c.e. to properly process and track these individuals. and, involve, the biden administration is paying a political cost for these. >> brennan: yeah. >> my recommendation would be -- and i know president biden believes this -- we have to address the underlying causes in central america for these types of surges. and i was pleased that in this year's budget proposal, there is a billion dollars to try to address this. we began this in the obama administration, and we need to keep at it through successive administrations. >> brennan: right, and that's a long-term solution. but when it comes to how the biden administration planned for this, this pandemic era restriction title 42 is getting peeled back may 23rd. it coincides with the peak migration season. why wasn't there any coordination within the administration to maybe, i don't know, push it a few

months? >> margaret, i'm no long at the table, no longer in the situation where i'm part of these discussions. >> britt >> brennan: but you would have tried to coordinate it, wouldn't you? >> i would have argued -- obviously this is an extraordinary authority, a public health authority in the event of a communicable disease, and it had to end some time. the courts are becoming increasingly skeptical. i would have argued that we should keep it in place for a little while longer, until perhaps july, when these numbers do tend to slow down in the hotter weather. you're correct that march, april, and may tend to be the peak months. so d.h.s. will have a challenge. i heard the current secretary say at present they have something like 7 a day. that's a high number. >> brennan: you mentioned the political problem this has caused

for the administration. there is a bipartisan group of senators now trying to delay the administration's plan to lift this by about 60 days until after the surgeon general rescinds the covid public health emergency. does this sound like a reasonable compromise? is this something you would endorse? >> margaret, legally i don't know that a compromise is achievable. achievable section 265 of title 42 is a c.d.c. authority. it is up to the c.d.c. to invoke it or suspend it. that's the way the law reads. so if in the judgment of the c.d.c. director the public health authority -- this extraordinary authority should be lifted, that is her prerogative. hopefully in consultation in the inner agency process with the department of homeland security to ensure that d.h.s. is ready to handle these numbers. again, i would have argued that we keep it in place a

little longer, through the summer, until the numbers tend to trail off. >> brennan: should will be vaccination at the border that is mandated? foreign travelers to the united states who land at an airport have to show proof of it? >> i think that is something that should be considered. there are obviously huge challenges trying to achieve that with this volume of people. but it is something that should be considered. >> brennan: you mentioned going back to addressing root causes, both president biden and vice-president harris last year also publicly called for migration to slow. i want to play for you what they said in 2021. >> do you have to say quite clearly don't come? >> yes, i can say quite clearly don't come. >> do not come. >> brennan: so why haven't we heard anything like that now?

is it because the administration took so much heat from progressive democrats? >> margaret, i can only tell you about my own experience dealing with this very, very difficult issue. i have learned that you have to repeat a message dozens and dozens of times before people actually do begin to hear it. the longer-term lesson, however, is that migration is a market sensitive phenomenon. it hears about enhanced enforcement, and decreased enforcement on our southern border, and we can repeat these messages over and over again, and we should, but as long as the underlying conditions exist, the poverty and violence in central america exists, the numbers are going to always revert back to their longer-term trend lines. there is no level of defense that can

counteract the powerful push factors in central america. that's something i know president biden believes in, and we discussed it extensively when he was vice president and i was secretary of homeland security. >> brennan: secretary jeh johnson, good to have you back on the program. we'll be right back.

>> brennan: the supreme court now looks more like america. this october four women, one of them a latina, and now for the first time a black female justice, will sit on the nine-person supreme court. friday judge ketanji brown jackson marked her historic confirmation with an emotional speech. >> it has taken 232 years, but we've made it. [applause and cheering] >> we've made it, all of us. all of us. in my family, it took just one generation to go from

segregation to the supreme court of the united states. [applause and cheering] >> brennan: following the announcement of the vote on thursday, there was a stunning response on the senate floor that reflects just how partisan politics has gotten. atashe repuan sid of the tublicans toed ouomne o support judge jackson's nomination. and that is it for today. thank you all for watching. until next week, for "face the nation," i'm margaret brennan. captioning sponsored by cbs captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

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