trumpet sounds again next sunday morning. ♪♪ captioning sponsored by cbs >> brennan: i'm margaret brennan in washington, and this week on "face the nation," there is a new urgency in getting weapons to ukraine as the russians intensify their missile attacks in the south and east. and the diplomatic shuffling between the ukraine, the u.s., and russia appears to be marking s new firsts. volodymyr zelenskyy says he is meeting with antony blinken and lloyd austin in person today, inside the war-torn country. we'll have the latest. and in a sunday exclusive, we spoke with ukrainian prime minister denys shmyhal at the end of his trip to washington. then confusion and chaos over mask mandates on planes and public

transportation being lifted by a federal judge. plus, what is taking so long getting vaccines for the very youngest. we'll check in with former f.d.a. commissioner dr. scott gottlieb. with inflation sky-high, interest rates creeping up, and the stock market showing some stress, are we looking at more economic turbulence ahead because of the war in ukraine? we'll talk to the head of the european central bank, christina lagarde. democratic senator lis liz senatorelizabeth warren is here. and republicans face more internal turmoil after the house minority leader criticizes former president trump in a leaked audio tape. it is all just ahead on "face the nation." ♪♪ >> brennan: good

morning. welcome to "fe the nation." we have been told repeatedly that the next few weeks in ukraine will be crucial, so the urgency for more support for the country is no surprise. but the official announcement of a top-secret trip on part of the biden administration officials as we go on the air has not been confirmed by the u.s. but word is out. cbs news foreign correspondent charlie d'agata is in ukraine. >> reporter: good morning, margaret. it came as a surprise, to say the least, when president zelenskyy said that the u.s. secretary of defense would be arriving here today. saying it is no big secret. what tops the agenda: more weapons and fast. in a marathon press conference held deep underground in a subway station, pausing at times for passing trains,

zelenskyy struck a defiant yet thankful tone.[speaking forn language] >> reporter: let me stress, he said, all of the signals, steps, terms and amounts regarding u.s. weapons, all of this has improved, and for that i am grateful. it may be too late to save mariupol. ukrainian officials say russian launched airstrikes today on the besieged steel mill, sheltering soldiers and civilians. this video of families who have been hunkering down in bunkers for months was reportedly taken three days ago and released by the azoff battalion. it cannot be independently verified. president zelenskyy warned russia against the slaughter of remaining resistance fighters. if our men are killed in mariupol, he said, ukraine will withdraw from any negotiation process. to the west, at least six cruise missiles landed in the black seaport sea of

odessa. a strike on an apartment building killed eight people, including a mother and her 3 month old baby. missiles destroyed a facility holding weapons supplied by the u.s. and europe. they opened fire in the donbas region in eastern ukraine. despite these forces making some territorial gains along the 300-mile front line, ukrainian troops had the worst of it at a significant cost to the kremlin, according to british military intelligence. russian televisio broadcast live pictures of president putin attending an easter orthodox midnight mass. with the war he started raging on and the deaths of innocent civilians rising by the hour. president zelenskyy said he is open to a direct meeting with president putin in order to end the war. in his easter address, he said, our souls are filled

with fierce hatred for the invaders and all they've done. don't let that rage destroy us from within. margaret? >> brennan: thank you, charlie. we turn now to cbs news national security correspondent david martin. good morning. good to have you here, david. president zelenskyy in that press conference said weapons transfers have picked up in their pace from the united states, but he expects secretaries austin and blinken to arrive with something more for him. do you know what that is? >> well, weapons are going into ukraine today. i asked and was told there are no weapons on the particular train taking austin and blinken into ukraine. but there is clearly this race on to arm the ukrainians in time for this coming battle. and the u.s. is shipping 90 of these 155-millimeter

hhowitzers into ukraine. the u.s. is asking all sorts of countries who have that smaller caliber to provide it to the ukrainians. but these countries are not like the u.s., with these vast arsenals. when you ask them to give up their artillery, that is a big ask. >> brennan: uh-huh. >> reporter: but the race to arm the ukrainians with heavy artillery is probably going to decide the outcome of this coming battle in the east. and, of course, it looks like the coming battle in the east is going to decide the outcome of the war. so high stakes. >> brennan: and time seems to be of the essence there. when it comes to what the united states has admitted it is transferring to the ukrainians, the types of weapons continue to change.

are they still parsing what will provoke putin? are they still sort of saying there are things we cannot do? >> reporter: they certainly give every weapons system a clear scrub for will this cross his red line? the problem is nobody knows what his red line is. >> brennan: what that is. >> reporter: the russians sent this diplomatic note warning: don't send sensitive weapons because they will produce unpredictable consequences. who knows what they consider a sensitive weapon. probably not an artillery piece. but on that list of weapons provided last week, there was something called the phoenix ghost, tactical unmanned aerial systems. and i'm reading it off a list here because last week was the first time i had ever heard of this thing. it is a classified program. we can't show a picture of it because there is no picture. but this is a comcasi

drone, which finds one, and dives on the target to kill it. the u.s. has already given ukrainians about 700 smaller switch blade com comkazzi drones. will these be the weapons that cross putin's red line? who knows, but there is a dangerous dynamic going on here. the worst putin does, the more dangerous he gets. >> brennan: if he gets backed into a corner, as you have said, the question is: what does he then do? the u.k. has said the russians haven't really fully reorganized and resupplied. do the ukrainians have an advantage at this moment? >> reporter: well, they certainly have a fighting chance. just the battlefield rule of thumb is the attacker needs a three to one

advantage over the defender, and russia tries for a seven to one advantage, and they just don't have those kinds of numbers. beyond that, we have been talking for weeks about of tthe russian military: poor morale, poor command and control, poor logistics. those are not the kind of problems you solve in a few weeks. an american defense secretary once said: you go to war with the army you have. and the war that russia is going to go with in eastern ukraine is essentially the army that went to war in northern ukraine, and which failed to take kyiv. just to giveo y one encircle the ukrainian army. >> brennan: right. >> reporter: to do that, some units have to travel 100 miles in order to get in the rear of the ukrainian army. >> brennan: wow. >> reporter: in the offensive against kyiv, they overran their supply

lines at 60 miles. >> brennan: david martin, great analysis. thank you. president biden met with ukraine's prime minister, denys shmyhal, here in washington. we sat down with the prime minister just before he returned to ukraine and began our conversation with the situation in mariupol. >> mariupol is now surrounded by russian army. some thousands of our soldiers, some thousands of civilians, together with them, it is my women and children, are hiding in the basements of this enterprise. soldiers are protecting the civilians, but russian soldiers is many times more than eye soldier our soldi. now we have heard that russians began bombarding this enterprise, these sheshelters where our

soldiers and civilians are saving from the bombs. it is terrible war crimes on the mariupol territory. >> brennan: there have been satellite images of mass graves around the city. your government has said mariupol might be a red line. and because of the atrocities, diplomacy may not be possible. are we at that point? has that line been crossed? >> mariupol is like symbol of brave ukrainian soldiers and civilians who for two months protect their city from russian invasion, from russian atrocities. so this isthld they think it will be the red line for all civilized world, not only for ukrainian people. so we will protect our country. we will protect our cities. and mariupol will stay to the end because of our soldiers, who say we will stay here and protect our

city until then. >> brennan: i heard you say that it might be the worst catastrophe of the century. so do you believe, after doing something like that, that russia can negotiate in good faith? >> russia done many atrocities and many war crimes in ukraine. but we understand that this terrible war could be finished only on the table of negotiations. with presence of our partners of world leaders, of stabilized countries, but we should sign some papers about finishing this war. >> brennan: president biden says he will go to congress next week and ask for more money to provide weapons to ukraine. the last time that happened, it took three weeks for congress to sign off on funds. do you have three weeks to wait? >> we count every minute, every hour, not every week

or month because every minute and every hour soldiers, civilians, children, women are dying. because of this, we need faster decisions. but united states, europe union, civilized world make many faster decisions, and we so much grateful for this. we need more support. >> brennan: what specifically is it, is it medical supplies you need most? is it heavy weapons? is it just cash? >> we need weapons and medical support. but many countries support us because they take our injured soldiers. the cash in the sense of our budget is very important for social and humanitarian responsibilities of our state to our people. >> brennan: and that's $4 billion to $5 billion a month ukraine needs? >> yes. >> brennan: did you get

pledges for that here in washington? >> yes. we had many negotiations with g-20 countries, with i.m.f., world bank, so all of them approved this amount. but now, after liberation of some territories of ukraine, we need also support for finances and technologies for activities because more than 120,000 square miles are under under mining and bombs. some of the families going back to their house, opening their washing machines and refrigerators, is mining by russians. >> brennan: the u.n. secretary-general says he is flying to moscow next week to meet with vladimir putin. do you think this is any kind of diplomatic breakthrough? >> i'm not sure.

so many leaders of countries of civilized world, international organizations, tried to have this negotiation, but i think the russian federation and putin are not interested in these negotiations. they're interested in other things. they're interested in homicide of ukrainians. they're interested in the migration crisis in the world. they are interested in the food crisis and energy crisis. i'm not sure they are capable to hold these negotiations in the proper way. >> brennan: here in washington, did you receive promises of more military training for ukrainian soldiers? >> we have support from our partners for military training right now. so we are training. we study new technologies for our soldiers and our army. so everything is on its way. >> brennan: everything is on its way? >> absolutely. >> brennan: do you

believe the u.s. wants ukraine to fight to a stalemate or to actually defeat vladimir putin, to actually win? >> i personally think that it is impossible to win the war, win the battle, with nuclear state. we may protect democracy in europe, on our continent, in the world, but i think that this war should be finished when we clean our territories from russian occupants. >> brennan: are you saying that a full withdrawal of russian troops is the only way to end the war? >> i think yes. if russians will leave territory of ukraine, if they will have guarantees of safety for our country from our partners, if we will have possibility to recover our country using

russia's frozen assets -- >> brennan: there is a proposal in congress to seize some of those frozen russian accounts and use them to repay damage -- to pay for damage in ukraine. did you get guarantees from the u.s. that they're looking at doing that? >> we have these negotiations with the united states, with all of our partners. this is very important international issue and task and goal, to find solutions how to take these frozen assets and finance the recover of and for future, it should be like standard. if some country should make aggression against another democratic country, it should pay for this. >> brennan: so the $600 billion you said it would take to build ukraine, you think it can come from the yachts of oligarchs and

banks -- >> absolutely, for a minimum. for now we count all of these damages and destroying infrastructure, destroying residential buildings, houses of the people, or the energy infrastructure, enterprises infrastructure, loading the g.d.p. for our country for many years because they destroyed part of our economy, so all of this should be paid by russia, absolutely. >> brennan: mr. prime minister, thank you for your time today. >> thank you so much. >> brennan: our full interview can be seen on our website at facethenation.com. we'll be back in one miebt one-minute to talk do dr. scott gottlieb. so stay with us.

eyes on the ball baby. digital tools so impressive, you just can't stop. what would you like the power to do? >> brennan: there was a lot of confusion last week over masks, mandates, and vaccines for the very youngest. our mark strassmann has more from atlanta. >> no longer enforce the

federal mandate requiring masks at all u.s. airports. >> reporter: with that mid-flight announcement, the masks came off. even passengers stuck in the middle seats applauded. >> i would say hallelujah. >> reporter: a florida federal judge, appointed by former president trump, has ruled the magic mask mandate was unlawful. tthe biden administration appealed. millions of americans will celebrate going bare-faced again. >> there should be no mandates, period, none. >> reporter: but there are, still, and local guidelines prevail. los angeles county and new york city still require masks in airports and for all mass transit. >> i just wish we got a clear answer on what we're going to do with this whole mask mandate. it just seems confusing.

>> reporter: confused and alarm, immunocompromised americans, and the parents surrounded by ever fewer people wearing mavericks. no masks for 18 million american kids under five. they criticized the f.d.a.'s lack of action and urgency on a vaccine for young children that would give parents more peace of mind and help put the pandemic behind us. pfizer is working on a vaccine for young kids, and moderna could seek f..a. authorization in the next week. and for frustrated parents, both options could become available some time this summer. margaret? >> brennan: we go now to former f.d.a. commissioner dr. scott gottlieb who joins us from westport, connecticut. good morning to you, doctor. >> doctor: good morning. >> brennan: i want to get to kids in a moment. i've got a lot i want to

ask you about there, but let's start on the masks. put the legal argument aside, as a medical professional, when you get on a plane, are you still going to put a mask on? >> doctor: i wear a mask when i get on a plane while i'm boarding and while i'm getting off the plane. i think those are the two points where you're in a congregate setting where there is poor air circulation. those are the risky points in you're journey. when you're up in the air, 10,000 feet, there is pretty good air filtration on a plane, so i take my mask off while we're flying. that's been my practice since this mandate got lifted, and that's probably what i'll continue doing. >> brennan: when you say mask, you mean an n-95? >> doctor: yeah, look, i wear a kn-95 mask. if you're wearing a poorer quality mask, a cloth mask, you're probably deriving a lot less protection than what you

perceive. omicron is preyeding spreading through airborne transmission, so if you want to protect yourself from this pathogen, you need to wear a well-fitted, higher-, higherhigher-quality mask. >> brennan: we're still in a public health emergency. are we yet at an endemic phase of this? >> doctor: no. i think this year is really a transitioear. k going tr whe becom anillnes it will not be a defined point in time when that happens. but what is going to happen this is going to settle into more of a seasonal pattern. i expect prevalence levels to start to decline. we may be peaking right now, if you look at the waste water data through the summer. then we're going to see it reim merge in the fall. the question is what reimmergence? is it a new strain of

omicron? >> brennan: and fall makes kids' vaccines even more timely. stay with us. we're going to take this break and come back and finish our conversation with dr. scott gottlieb. dude, you should really check in with your team on ringcentral. i was thinking like... oh hi, caesar. we were just talking about you. ha ha ha. yeah, you should probably get out of here. not good. ♪ ♪ ♪ ringcentral ♪ thanks for coming. now when it comes to a financial plan this broker is your man. let's open your binders to page 188... uh carl, are there different planning options in here? options? plans we can build on our own, or with help from a financial consultant? like schwab does. uhhh... could we adjust our plan... ...yeah, like if we buy a new house? mmmm... and our son just started working. oh! do you offer a complimentary retirement plan for him? as in free? just like schwab.

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>> brennan: we note the passing of former utah republican senator orrin hatch, who died at the age of 88. he way a frequent guest on this program during his seven terms in the senate. ♪ oh, oh, oh ♪ ozempic® is proven to lower a1c. most people who took ozempic® reached an a1c under 7 and maintained it. and you may lose weight. adults lost on average up to 12 pounds. in adults also with known heart disease, ozempic® lowers the risk of major cardiovascular events such as heart attack, stroke, or death. ozempic® helped me get back in my type 2 diabetes zone. ozempic® isn't for people with type 1 diabetes. don't share needles or pens, or reuse needles.

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to help you get a great night's sleep and wake feeling refreshed. live bountifully. nature's bounty. >> brennan: welcome back to "face the nation." we continue our conversation now with former f.d.a. commissioner dr. scott gottlieb. who is also on the board of pfizer. so, dr. scott gottlieb, when i heard the mask mandate being lifted on transpor, who i don't want to put on a train and i don't want to put on a plane because i can't put a mask on him unst americansvaccinated. supposed too, not avel? >> doctor: well, this is aeall diffi tuation bec affeely saha people neeo matters into twnhands in terms o protecting themselves, and we're no longer applying mandates on the entire

population, and not giving everyone the tools they need to do that, particularly yung kids, who are going to be made vulnerable in these public settings, and there is no vaccine available for these kids. there are kids with health conditions that can't get the benefit of a vaccine that could provide them some baseline immunity that would protect them from severe disease. i think we need to try to make a vaccine available to those children really soon. i'll take each application in turn, pfizer submitted about four months ago the data on their two-month vaccine, and f.d.a. has had the data for about four months. they deferred making a decision on that vaccine, and they didn't feel it reached 50% effectiveness of preventing symptomatic disease. and the data from the last test should be available ona rdda m

the public reports they're g to f t week. f.d.a. willdvisory committee in early june to discuss one or both of those applications. that gives the agencies about six weeks to review the moderna application -- it took them five weeks to review pfizer's 5 to 11 application. i'm hoping that pfizer will have all of their data in in time. the the moderna application is ready and the pfizer application is not, i think the f.d.a. would and should consider it separately. >> brennan: well, that's an important point to make because there was reporting, as you know, in poliítico this week that there were conversations within the biden administration worrying if you authorize one vaccine before the others it will confuse parents. but we adults, one vaccine was authorized and made available before the other. so is that flawed thinking? do you know if there is any truth to that

reporting? >> doctor: well, look, i don't agree with the thinking. when i just look at the timeline that is laid out here, if you believe they're going to hold an advisory committee in early june, that meeting was supposed to be planned to consider the omicron-specific vaccine, and the consideration of the childhood vaccines is going to get latched on to that meeting. that gives them about six weeks to review the moderna data. and i believe pfizer will have their data in to also meet that deadline. six weeks is about what the agency has been taking. heading an adacome will add additional time. the question is, why are they bringing it before the advisory committee, and that brings up the question if the agency is going to consider vaccines that don't meet the 50% threshold ap priewfnl. approvable. this is going to be

controversial before the advisory committee, that's why they're taking it before that adcom. i hope there is a favorable outcome for one or both of these vaccines, but i expect there to be some pushback among those members. >> brennan: when we spoke back and january about where pfizer was with its submission, you did make the argument that it might be advisable to make just two doses available while they look to the third because some protection is better than none. is the f.d.a. thinking that way? you mentioned a 50% efficacy rate. if the data isn't meeting that benchmark, should these vaccines still be approved? >> doctor: the data won't reach that benchmark. the moderna data is about 40%. the pfizer previous data was about 40 percent as well. we'll see if the third dose provides additional protection on top of that. we know these vaccines are not working very well against omicron in preventing symptomatic disease.

i believe there is value in getting base line immunity into children, even if you're not going to fully protect them against symptomatic illness, if you can protect them against severe disease and hospitalization, that provides a lot of value. i think for the f.d.a. to authorize these vaccines, they're going to have to come to that view as well because these vaccines are not going to meet their prespecified target of providing 50% efficacy. it is possible that the third dose of the pfizer vaccine will reach that benchmark. i don't think that is going to be the case because i don't think there will be enough symptomatic cases to evaluate. >> brennan: this is an important conversation, and we're going to continue to have it and watch what the f.d.a. does very carefully. thank you very much. we turn now to politics, the mid-term elections, we're just over six months away from them. and the question is: will democrats be able to hold both the house and the senate. elizabeth warren joins us now from boston. good morning to you,

senator. i know you have some strong thoughts on the matter. i read your op-ed this week and you warned democrats could face disaster because they promised more than president biden has delivered. why do you think democrats may lose the majority? >> look, democrats need -- democrats win when democrats are in touch with the american people and what is happening to them. today we've got people who are in the checkout line for groceries and having to pick what they're going to send back because they can't afford to pay for it. we've got millions of people across this country who say they're not ready for their student loan payments to resume, they simply can't manage those loan burdens. we have millions of people across this country who can't fill up on a tank of gas so they'll be able to get to work this week. as democrats, we need to deliver. we need to hit costs head-on, and we have the power to do that. we've got less than 200 days left, though. and instead of looking

backwards, let's look forward. let's get done what we can get done for the american people who elected us, for the american people who are counting on us. >> brennan: well, republicans would agree with you inflation is a big problem. it is one of their chief attack points on the president. you just mentioned student debt. i know you believe the president can just erase it essentially through executive orders. but both the white house and speaker pelosi have said he may not have the authority, that congress would have to act here. have you persuaded the white house otherwise? >> look, we know that the president has the authority to cancel student loan debt. and the best way we know that is because obama did it, president trump did it, and president biden has now done it repeatedly. >> brennan: extending the deadlines, you mean there? >> no, no. they have canceled. remember, they have canceled debt. they both canceled it for people in certain

categories entirely, but they have also canceled the interest that is due on people's student loans. they haven't deferred it; they have canceled it. because the power of cancellation is already in the statute. president obama, president trump, president biden have all done it. understand on cancellation, this is something the american people want, and it's something that tens of millions of people need. 40% of the folks who are handling student loan debt don't have a college diploma. these are people who tried but life happened, pregnancy, they were working three jobs, their mom got sick, they had to move to another city. and now they earn like a high school grad, but they're trying to manage college loan debt and it is crushing them. it is a racial equity issue. >> brennan: i'm aware with why this is a priority for you, but the concern is at this moment it could also be

inflationary in an environment where there already is high inflation. >> no, it is not inflationary. not paying student loans has been baked in for three years now. but keep in mind, as president biden himself says, the way we deal with inflation is not by making people poorer. the way we deal with inflation is we attack high prices head-on. price gouging -- we straighten out the supply chains so goods can come into people. we attack it head-on, not by trying to make people poorer. canceling student loan debt is something that would be good for people all across this country, and, more importantly, good for our economy overall. >> brennan: you also, in your op-ed, talk about 'number of build back better items, child care, universal pre-"k" but all 50 democratic senators do not support that. the president himself has acknowledged this problem,

talking about being able to get to the number 48. are senators manchin and sinema getting there? >> there are things on which we all agree, and there are things on which we need to continue the negotiations. let's start with price gouging. i think all of the democrats are on board that these giant companies should not only be passing along costs and inflation but actually adding an extra dollar so they can expand -- >> brennan: do you think this can get done in the next few weeks, before people leave for memorial day? >> yes, i do. we have got nearly 200 days before the next election. we need to be out there fighting. and what we need to fight for are the things that touch america's families directly. people are counting on us. and we can't just sit back and play politics. we need to be in the fight on behalf of the american people. and that means people who are struggling with student loan debt, people

who are struggling with high prices, people who are worried about this pandemic. weel d,ernd a democracyshe out and we can face that election in november with our heads held high. >> brenn: a few weeks you aghave franklin roosevelt majorities -- he comes back to we don't have 50 democratic votes. do you hear you saying that democrats just need to get caught trying? >> what you hear me saying is, we pick student loan debt, that affects about 43 million people. it would affect them and their families. we can attack corruption head-on. i have a bipartisan plan that says members of congress cannot trade in stocks, they can't own individual stocks. that's something we should be able to agree on and

move forward and help restore just a little faith that when we take actions and congress, it is not to pad our own pockets; it is actually on behalf of the american people. and look at all of the other pieces that the american public tells us they support. for example, a minimum corporate tax for these giant corporations. >> brennan: well -- >> that pay nothing. we're all in agreement on that on the democratic side. a sharp difference with the republicans who want them to continue to do that. but that's exactly what we should be pushing forward. we need to be in the fight. >> brennan: and the president is out there talking about his accomplishments. we'll see if he takes up your advice. senator warren, thank you for sharing it with us. we'll be right back. stay with us. johnson & johnson is building your world of well.

what's the #1 retinol brand used most by dermatologists? it's neutrogena® rapid wrinkle repair® smooths the look of fine lines in 1-week, deep wrinkles in 4. so neutrogena® >> brennan: democrats aren't the only ones facing challenges within the ranks this week. kevin mccarthy remains on the defensive, denying that he considered urging former president trump to

resign after the january 6 attack on the capitol. but audiotapes reveal him talking about doing just that. our r robert costa reports. >> reporter: the house republican leader's second denial came friday night after leaked recorded phone calls verified mccarthy telling colleagues, shortly after the capital attack, that mr. trump beared some lame for it. the conversation with released by the authors of a new book "this will not pass," who reported on the internal party discussions. mccarthy said he was considering asking trump to resign, in light of potentially being impeached in the senate. >> the only discussion i would have with him is i think this would pass. it is my recommendation you should resign. that would be my take, but i don't think he would take it. >> reporter: mccarthy had called the times

reporting totally false and wrong, that is until the audio was released, catching mccarthy flat-footed. but trump told the "wall street journal" on friday that mccarthy remains an ally. >> brennan: we want to turn now to robert costa. bob, is there going to be any consequences for this? >> inside the house republican conference, his rivals are watching this episode very closely. based on my reporting, mccarthy is in line to hold the speaker's gavel, but democrats believe they have the chance of winning the majority. they would still like to hear him speak to the house investigating january 6. >> brennan: any chance of that? >> at this point, mccarthy has defied the committee at every turn, have little chance of that. but the committee still probing other republicans as well. >> brennan: about kost, robertcosta, thank you very much for your reporting and

analysis. we'll be right back. ♪

>> brennan: we are joined now by christina lagarde, the president of the european central bank, which sets monetary policy, including interest rates for the 19 countries you see. welcome to the program. >> thank you so much, and good morning.

>> brennan: good morning. good to have you back here in washington. we talk often by inflation in this country, but inflation is also at a record high in europe. the federal reserve chair has talked about raising interest rates by as much as a half percent to try to get control here. why do you think you can wait until the summer? >> i believe that we share the same results, which is to tame inflation, which is to use all of the tools that we have to do so. but we're facing a different beast. when i look at my core inflation, which is inflation taking out the most volatile elements, such as energy and food, my core inflation is at 2.9%. inflation in europe is very high at the moment. 50% of that is related to energy prices. pre-ukraine war, it was already climbing, but the ukraine war has

dramatically increased those prices. so we have to use the tools and the sequence, which is appropriate depending on the sources of inflation. if i raise interest rates today, it is not going to bring the price of energy down. so we have embarked on that journey of gradually removing our monetary policy, so we will be interrupting the purchases of assets in the course of the third quarter. high prolity that i third qur. have t -d sourc hav theomt.>> b: you saidhrg of connc could be persistent here. does that indicate a high degree of concern that we could be tipping into a recession, and can you

raise rates without that risk? >> it is the tradeoff that central bank governors face at the moment. we have to be guided by our mandate, but our objective, which is to restore price stability, which we have all defined as roughly 2%. so that's the mandate. but at the same time, we have to do so in sufficiently well-sequenced, well-calibrated for us in europe gradual way so we don't induce recession. we currently are facing winds that reduce growth and increase inflation. so we have to navigate between the two, guided by the mandate of price stability and bringing inflation down. >> brennan: uh-huh. you referenced the war with russia a few times here. and we've all been learning just how dependent europe is on russia for its supply of fossil fuels. germany warned an embargo

of russian gas could cause economic output to drop 5%, and yet w there are calls for total embargo on russian gasoline. is this practical? and how much is the politics impacting this? >> i think we have to be guided by the purpose that we have. and the purpose that we have is to reduce and possibly cancel the financing that is provided to russia to finance the war, the unjustifiable, illegitimate war, of russia against ukraine. so we have to adjust the policies, whether it is sanctions, whether it is de-assisting the banks, whether it is cutting out the oligarchs from their finances and their sources of finances, whether it is reducing and eventually cutting out supplies from russia in such a way that we actually reach the goal that we have, which is to

reduce financing. if we were to take abrupt measures that would induce an increase of the price of oil or gas around the world, from which the russians would eventually benefit, then that would not be the right policy move. so we have to do it in sufficiently smart and subtle ways so that we actually achieve the goal that we have, which is to reduce the financing. i think that's what the europeans together are looking at, the plan to completely boycott coal has been adopted. there is a lot of work going on concerning oil, concerning gas, and, you know, there will be more stories to tell a bit later on. >> brennan: you know in this country, there is a lot of debate around how much the government is to blame versus the central bankers for the inflation that we're experiencing. relief2 trillion on it under president biden's watch,

while the economy was already recovering. do you think some of this spending in it's u.s. exacerbated inflation? because you in europe didn't spend that much on this? >> we spent less in stimulus and i think we spent differently. we spent pretty much half as much of what the u.s. government spent on stimulus and heating up the economy. but we also spent it differently because i think the focus was predominantly on keeping the jobs, not necessarily sending the checks. and as a result of that, people who managed to keep their jobs alive, while not necessarily going to work because covid stopped everybody from going to work at some point in time, they had their jobs. so when covid was over, they went back to their jobs. so i think that the labor market that you have currently in this country in the u.s., which is incredibly tense, where you have, you know, a lot of jobs that are not

filled, where you have plenty of vacancies, we don't have that in europe at the moment. and the current situation you have on the labor market here in the u.s. is clearly contributing to possible strong inflation and second-round effect, where prices go up, wages go up, short supply of labor, wages continue to go up, and that feeds back into prices. that's one of the differences between our two economies. >> brennan: you've been in key positions throughout a number of economic crises. how dangerous is this moment we are in right now? >> it is a difficult moment, but it is one where, um, a very interesting phenomena developed. if i look from my vintage point at europe, the russian aggression against ukraine has produced three key results: it has

resurrected nato. this is easter day, so i'm not fantasizing here, but it has resurrected nato. it has united the europeans more than ever. and it has strengthened a nation, ukraine. the price of that is terrible, the death, the destruction, the devastation, and we are all concerned and all want to help, but this is quite an interesting development. and we have to be united and resolved to actually address the situation together because there has to be solidarity. >> brennan: i have to end it there because we're out of time. we'll be back.

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